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Oliver


Let R = { x | x ∉ x }, then R ∈ R ⟺ R ∉ R... or is it?

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Aug
26th
2017

Points of Canon: S7x16 - Campfire Tales · 7:07pm Aug 26th, 2017

Welcome to the comics.

Specifically, the legends told in this episode directly reference the Legends of Magic comic series. Which I haven’t picked apart yet, and will probably have to do so soon. Notably, they don’t so much reference them as they act as prequels to the comic stories.

  • Standard chronology markers: The CMC have their cutie marks, a-a-and… nothing else.
  • Notice that while the Apple sisters have an apple-decorated tent, and Rarity has a tent decorated with her cutie mark, Rainbow Dash brought a rather generic one.
  • The destination of this particular trip is “Winsome Falls.” (sp?) The map does not have this location mapped. Further clues presented in the episode are quite confusing.
  • According to the Apple sisters, the camping trip is annual, giving us a chronology lock – it has to be on an annual boundary with Sleepless in Ponyville which is the first such trip. Probably not an exact day cycle, but certainly an exact season one.
  • Wherever they are, they expect to get to Winsome Falls and get back within a weekend.
  • “Remember the first time we came here, and Rarity had that ginormous tent?” This is a clear reference to Sleepless in Ponyville and implies the location has to match the one for that episode, at least down to the particular forest it happens in.
  • “This time you only packed three suitcases!” I suppose whatever packaging all the lamps came in doesn’t count.
  • “According to my book, they’re extremely poisonous!” Actually, Scootaloo’s book only has these particular berries marked as inedible – the poisonous ones, marked with an actual equine skull, are blue. She keeps being severely paranoid for the entire episode, though, as if Sleepless in Ponyville didn’t help.
  • “I guess I still get a little bit scared out here, even after the last camping trip.” “Don’t worry kid, you’ve got a big sister this time.” I am pretty sure Rainbow wants to imply that there was no “annual” trip between this episode and Sleepless in Ponyville. Later on, Scootaloo reinforces this with “We aren’t gonna tell scary stories like our last camping trip, are we?” Which would mean another year compressed, because Sleepless in Ponyville is a Season 3 episode, and the CMC all sport their cutie marks. You can complain all you want, dear readers, the show clearly wants to give you the impression ponies do something interesting every bleeding week, and downtime is a myth.
  • Once again, we see a thermos. Thermoses of this size that we can currently produce will only keep something warm/cold for 20-30 hours at best. But usually, 8-10.
  • The primary meal eaten is carrot hotdogs. And you’d think we would see the fire they cooked them on, but nope, we don’t see it until much later.
  • Flyders are small swarming flying insects capable of building webs, spitting out large amounts very quickly. The webbing is strong enough that Applejack cannot casually rip it off. Whether the bite is actually part of feeding or not remains uncertain. Bites cause visible bite marks and swelling in ponies, which disappears in at most a few hours – no bite marks are visible after the first legend, and Sweetie Belle can only show them on inner surfaces of the legs after two legends. Applejack believes they are attracted to food.
  • Rarity brought a flyswatter.
  • Sweetie Belle is capable of casting a shield spell. She can’t seem to maintain it while running.
  • Applejack says that flyders are from Luna Bay area and she has never seen them “this far east.” However, Luna Bay is also one of the northernmost locations of the map, right up there with the Crystal Empire and the igloos. Also, the terrain in this area is notably presented as arctic, and there’s little chance such insects could survive there at all. Huh?
  • Apple Bloom uses “apple rot” as an expletive.
  • Rainbow manages to bring in an entire campfire in her hooves. How did she manage to do that when there was no visible campfire by the time the camp was abandoned, I’m not sure.

Applejack’s story

  • This story references Legends of Magic #2. That latter describes a story written by Star Swirl to continue the story of the legend told by Applejack. It is entirely unclear whether the legend has any truth to it whatsoever. None of those present except Apple Bloom and possibly Rarity – she is the only one who doesn’t yell “What happened next?!” – ever heard it before.
  • “They lived in a village that sat at the foot of a gigantic volcano.” Notice that the only volcano on the current map is the one in an area marked “Dragons Lair.” We generally know nothing of whether this particular pony culture even lived before the Exodus or after, either. It does have a somewhat Norse feel, the comic suggests it has an Icelandic naming pattern, and it exclusively contains earth ponies, despite the mysterious wings on their helmets, but that’s it.
  • “The village was protected by an elite group of guardponies called the Mighty Helm.” Neither Applejack nor Star Swirl’s legend ever says what they protected it from. While the guardsponies use some manner of spears, Rockhoof is offered a spear-like shovel. See Sandwich Problem.
  • One of the shots contains three outhouses. Two marked with crescent moon and one marked with a star. No comments.
  • The evacuation uses a dual propulsion sail/oar ship of a style I can’t readily identify. Notice that while the “Mighty Helm” members leave on the ship, they readily abandon the civilians that refused to evacuate.
  • “It’d be impossible for one pony to dig a trench to stop the lava! I mean, even I couldn’t do that!” We have, however, seen Pinkie do the job of an excavator faster than a machine would, and Applejack is likewise pretty capable in this regard…
  • Rockhoof is referred to as “young,” and yet, grows into a huge stallion not just overnight, but instantly.
  • “Through his extraordinary determination and sheer force of will, Rockhoof more than earned his place in the Mighty Helm.” Whether something like this can actually happen to earth ponies or not – I can imagine one or two ways how it would be possible, but they’re a consequence of my magic theory – remains uncertain.

Intermission #1

  • By the time the story ends, the camp is covered entirely in the webbing, but notably, uneaten food still remains.
  • Rarity finds flecks of “gold” in local rocks, but that says pretty much nothing, because it doesn’t have to be actual gold, nor does it have to be commercially exploitable.

Rarity’s story

  • This story is continued in Legends of Magic #3. Notably, that one, while also a legend on par with the first, refers to a currently living character, namely Luna. It’s the only one of the three that could conceivably be verified, and is at least reasonably clearly dated – down to a few centuries. Unfortunately, we’re never getting an on-screen verification from Luna, are we. That would be important, however, because Star Swirl’s continuation all but states that the Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters had been abandoned long before Nightmare Moon ever turned up.
  • Rainbow refers to Mistmane as “the wrinkly sorceress with the flower” which Rarity confirms. However, Star Swirl’s story explicitly says that “Now, everypony is familiar with the Mistmane who was the most beautiful of all ponies” and this is the aspect of Mistmane’s legendary career that Rarity refers to. Which basically means that both Rarity and Rainbow are aware of stories that Star Swirl considered obscure enough to contrast them to the “famous” stories about the beautiful Mistmane – and that latter is the one Rainbow did not know. Huh?…
  • Rarity makes an alicorn ballerina silhouette with just her hooves. I’m sure some magic was involved, but her horn is not lit up when she’s doing that. She keeps illustrating the story with shadows, and it still never lights up.
  • 1. According to Star Swirl, Mistmane later ended up in Canterlot and met Luna, so – within the sphere of influence.

    A vaguely Chinese culture of unicorns lived somewhere within the sphere of influence of Equestria in the period between the founding of Equestria and the construction of Canterlot Castle. 1 This particular culture had a phenotype variation – a curved, sharp horn, coupled with extra long and pointier ears.

  • Mistmane was sent to “the finest magic school.” This school, however, is still in the same Chinese style. Notably, this particular magic school involves a lot of alchemy.
  • “…delighted to find out, that her best friend, Sable Spirit, was crowned empress.”

    • We essentially see another “empire” that is at best a town. Later on, Sable Spirit says “I wasn’t chosen to be the empress, you know, I took it.” Sable Spirit is not significantly different from any of the other villagers before she is chosen – in fact, she is probably dressed worse than any of the others. I think it’s pretty clear that ponies have a meaning for the word “empire” that does not match ours. See perpendicular linguistics.
    • This particular empress definitely has coercive power, at that – she “makes everypony work day and night on her palace.” And once she is defeated, her guards immediately cheer.
  • A spell generating virtual creatures is prominently used for this battle. This particular time it’s Chinese-style dragons, no legs.
  • Mistmane does something that earth ponies would have accomplished with far less effort and no permanent sacrifices. At the cost of her beauty, and apparently, age, at that. Shame there are no earth ponies in town. Notably, her outfit also deteriorates in the process.

Intermission #2

  • Rainbow Dash is reckless to the point of idiocy, but we kind of knew that.
  • Scootaloo is really claustrophobic, down to outright panic attacks.
  • Applejack is capable of (re)starting a fire with friction only.

Rainbow Dash’s story

  • This particular story is continued by Star Swirl in Legends of Magic #4. It has pretty much the same problem as the first one: We know nothing of its veracity and ponies make no hard statements if at all possible. It is also the most internally dubious.
  • “A long time ago, before the Wonderbolts were even founded” We actually know exactly when that was, though whether it dates the story to the pre-classical period or the pre-Exodus period, we don’t know.
  • “Flash Magnus was a lowly cadet in the Royal Legion.” This is the first time ever we hear of this organization. The particular word “legion” however makes me think it’s probably meant to be a pre-Exodus story.
  • The pegasi armor is somewhat Roman in style and includes a strange “boot” on the left front leg. Notice that the commander has four of these.
  • “And the legion needed to fly over the Dragon Lands…” While they’re flying over, they’re passing ruins, though whether they’re Greek or Roman in style, I can’t tell due to the low resolution. They certainly prominently feature columns, though. Hm.
  • “…to get to their comrades on the other side.” Gee, why did the pegasus cross the Dragon Lands?… Seriously, what were those comrades doing on the other side?
  • The dragons attack with no obvious provocation except territory breach. So how did those comrades end up on the other side at all?
  • One of the two dragons involved looks like Torch. However, since he is not named, we have no idea whether it is the same individual and whether he could corroborate this story.
  • “Flash Magnus and a squad of cadets were separated from the battalion.” If we’re to assume that the picture shows what Rainbow says, a “squad” is at most two other cadets beyond Flash himself, while a battalion is six ponies. I’m pretty sure this is nonsense, so the picture is not trustworthy.
  • “…and took them back to their lair.” So what exactly were the dragons planning to do with them? This is mostly about dragon diet: In Triple Threat, Ember does not consider organics food at all.
  • I can’t correctly parse the name of the fireproof shield, but that it is named and that Flash says “the” implies that it’s a unique item. “It has protected Legion heroes for generations.”
  • At one point, Flash uses the shield to skate on the flame. No comments.
  • According to this legend, dragons are not immune to lightning.
  • Captain Ironhead is capable of saluting with his wing while flying with the other one.

Conclusion

  • The other end of the cave goes straight to the Winsome Falls. We still don’t know what that is. It’s a pretty huge waterfall at that, though not a very tall one.

I think the waterfalls are at the bottom of the mountain Canterlot is on, though I’m not entirely sure.

With the exception of Mistmane’s story, which has at least a chance to be corroborated and turn out to be true, this is far less useful than it could possibly be. However, the chronological loop that this episode introduces – it really wants to be the “second annual” camping trip after the first one in Sleepless in Ponyville, while at the same time, all the Crusaders already have their marks – is hugely important even if the episode itself is otherwise not.

P.S. So one day, Scootaloo and Marty McFly were racing, and someone called them both chicken…

Comments ( 32 )

The royal business in the third story makes my teeth itch. It undoes a lot of what we thought we knew about the preclassical pegasi. I liked the Mistmane story, would be better if we got a name to associate with this Chineighese polity, though. Could be one of your federated principalities, as it is explicitly within Equestria.

That Rockhoof story had potential, but the animators bobbled it badly. Who knows at this point if it was supposed to reflect a case of cutie mark destiny magic causing a major physical transformation or if it was supposed to be an earth pony intrinsic thing?

4648745

The royal business in the third story makes my teeth itch. It undoes a lot of what we thought we knew about the preclassical pegasi.

Considering it’s also the story that is the most dubious by itself – every other line in my notes is a “huh?!” – I think we can safely assume Rainbow simply isn’t a very good storyteller.

Then again, there’s also Star Swirl’s continuation… It’s important that all of that is billed as myth. Even Luna calls the first story “my favorite myth.” I only assume a higher veracity of the second story because Luna is directly a character in Star Swirl’s continuation, so if Mistmane ever comes up again within earshot, she might remember her.

I liked the Mistmane story, would be better if we got a name to associate with this Chineighese polity, though. Could be one of your federated principalities, as it is explicitly within Equestria.

Within or not, it’s somewhere close enough that Mistmane could still end up in Canterlot and witness the construction of Canterlot Castle within her presumably reduced lifespan – so I think it’s one of those kingdoms that Equestria eventually absorbed. This might get cleared up when we see any of those curved-horn unicorns on screen again, which I suspect we will, since models tend to get reused.

Who knows at this point if it was supposed to reflect a case of cutie mark destiny magic causing a major physical transformation or if it was supposed to be an earth pony intrinsic thing?

Undefined. My guess is – earth pony specific. Some manner of magic metabolism blockage, most likely for hormonal reasons – remember, he’s “young” – resulting in stunted growth and weakness. Subsequently cleared up in a self-reinforcing cascade due to emotional and spiritual stress.

That interpretation might be more materialistic than most people like, though, but my interpretation of pony magic is “Magic A is Magic A” for the most part.

As you note, the only timeline marker for this one is that the Crusaders have their marks. Given that "Sleepless in Ponyville" is pretty slippery to date—no confirmation on Twilight's wings, so it really boils down to tracking Dash's treatment of Scootaloo over time—this actually isn't one of the most egregious time compressions on the show. Heck, depending on the timing of the two events, it could've taken place before Flurry Heart's conception.

I suspect the curly-horned unicorns were the "Eastern unicorns" Twilight mentioned in "The Cutie Map."

I can’t correctly parse the name of the fireproof shield, but that it is named and that Flash says “the” implies that it’s a unique item. “It has protected Legion heroes for generations.”

As of this writing, the wiki transcript spells it "Netitus." Googling yields zilch in terms of mythological references.

I will be watching this later tonight.
However in reading different breakdowns of the episode. It make one wonder if the writers actually watch the show or read the comics. It seems like there skimming a wiki with all the contradictions & inconsistencies. I wonder if it not several writers who each write a different segment of the episode then smoosh it together.

4648800

However in reading different breakdowns of the episode. It make one wonder if the writers actually watch the show or read the comics.

Of course not. Didn’t they say that the show is for the little girls? They’re not little girls themselves, so they don’t watch it. Logic, isn’t it beautiful? :twilightsmile:

4648773
Well, also - the time markers suggesting 1 year are 'Big sister this time' and 'No scary stories like last year'.

The latter? Nothing's stopping them from having scary stories be an annual tradition - and I'd argue that's supported because the Dash-Big-Sister bit is still kind of not fully crystallized till later seasons.

I'd figure there's been at least 1 trip between S3 & this, but Dash has only more recently really started recognizing scary stories + nervous Scoots don't mix at all.

4648936
Entirely possible, though it does paint a disturbing image. No wonder Scootaloo spends the whole episode in a state of terror; the association between location and emotion has been stamped into her brain with an industrial press.

What's interesting is that the 1st story of Rockhoof is just a summarized version of the comics, only the latter two are prequels.

Which would mean another year compressed, because Sleepless in Ponyville is a Season 3 episode, and the CMC all sport their cutie marks.

Do we have a lock on Sleepless though? Other than the lack of cutie marks, could it have occurred mid-season 5?

The primary meal eaten is carrot hotdogs.

With the leaves included, which is gross.

However, Luna Bay is also one of the northernmost locations of the map, right up there with the Crystal Empire and the igloos. Also, the terrain in this area is notably presented as arctic, and there’s little chance such insects could survive there at all.

It's North and Eastern. Also, I know that mosquitos are terrible in Alaska. Carnivorous insects survive quite well in the arctic, and it seems like the Flyders are carnivorous.

  • Apple Bloom uses “apple rot” as an expletive.

Apple Bloom gets cuter every episode.

Whether something like this can actually happen to earth ponies or not – I can imagine one or two ways how it would be possible, but they’re a consequence of my magic theory – remains uncertain.

I have no idea what happened here. It kind of seemed like the alicornization, though of course that didn't happen. I thought maybe it was him getting his cutie mark, but he already had it, the triforce. I'd love to hear anyone else's theories.

 Which basically means that both Rarity and Rainbow are aware of stories that Star Swirl considered obscure enough to contrast them to the “famous” stories about the beautiful Mistmane

They were publicized once trade across the sea started up, but Rainbow has had an irregular education.

A vaguely Chinese culture of unicorns lived somewhere within the sphere of influence of Equestria in the period between the founding of Equestria and the construction of Canterlot Castle.

"Sphere of influence" only by generous standards. Between the physical, cultural, and political differences shown here, and the fact that Mistmane went to the "best magic school around" that wasn't taught by Celestia, my guess is that Neighpon or whatever you want to call it is across the North Lunar Sea, and Mistmane eventually traveled to Equestria in her later years. I mean, China and Europe were in each other's sphere of influence a thousand years ago due to the silk road, so it still fits.

  • This particular empress definitely has coercive power, at that – she “makes everypony work day and night on her palace.” And once she is defeated, her guards immediately cheer.

But in the end Sable Spirit remains Empress. Apparently pony forgiveness is a worldwide trait.

At the cost of her beauty, and apparently, age, at that.

Does she actually age, or do those wrinkles just represent ugliness at cartoon resolution? Sable Spirit looks the same when she is ugly, but is restored.

  • Rainbow Dash is reckless to the point of idiocy, but we kind of knew that.

I can't believe she would close that cave without seeing if there was another exit! She probably could have just picked up other ponies two at a time and flew them over and up the mountain to escape.

  • “A long time ago, before the Wonderbolts were even founded” We actually know exactly when that was, though whether it dates the story to the pre-classical period or the pre-Exodus period, we don’t know.

Based on the comics it seems pretty clearly pre-Exodus to me. In the comics it refers to a river where "the griffon kingdom ends and the Pegasus kingdom begins." Which also makes Cloudsdale a pre-Exodus city they just moved to Equestria.

Gee, why did the pegasus cross the Dragon Lands?… Seriously, what were those comrades doing on the other side?

No idea. Maybe some kind of war with the Griffons, and they are treating the dragon lands like Belgium and taking a shortcut to bring in reinforcements?

  • One of the two dragons involved looks like Torch. However, since he is not named, we have no idea whether it is the same individual and whether he could corroborate this story.

We can't be sure, but he looks pretty strongly like Torch, so that's at least a default identity. The real question is if the other dragon is Ember's Mom, the dragon living in the Everfree Forest, or both.

So what exactly were the dragons planning to do with them? This is mostly about dragon diet: In Triple Threat, Ember does not consider organics food at all.

Have dragons evolved culturally to a lithovore-only diet? Seems unlikely. Trade them to the diamond dogs for gems (the diamond dogs would use those Pegasi as slaves)?

  • According to this legend, dragons are not immune to lightning.

Everyone knows in fantasy worlds lightning and fire are two entirely separate energy types!

think the waterfalls are at the bottom of the mountain Canterlot is on, though I’m not entirely sure.

I think this is on the back of Canterlot mountain somewhere, there's just nowhere else near Ponyville it could be. What's up with the rainbow juice pouring out? Is that a natural magical phenomenon, or Canterlot's sewer treatment biproducts?

With the exception of Mistmane’s story, which has at least a chance to be corroborated and turn out to be true, this is far less useful than it could possibly be.

The stories themselves are fairly unverifiable, but we can assume the settings they were placed in must exist. Some earth ponies once lived in a Norse cultural setting, some unicorns had weird horns and lived in a Chinese cultural setting, Pegasi were in some sort of grand Legion. Good background worldbuilding.


4648766

Undefined. My guess is – earth pony specific. Some manner of magic metabolism blockage, most likely for hormonal reasons – remember, he’s “young” – resulting in stunted growth and weakness. Subsequently cleared up in a self-reinforcing cascade due to emotional and spiritual stress.

That's the best explanation I can think of.


4648773

Heck, depending on the timing of the two events, it could've taken place before Flurry Heart's conception.

That's a good point about the time compression.

I suspect the curly-horned unicorns were the "Eastern unicorns" Twilight mentioned in "The Cutie Map."

I think you're right.

4648936 From the way Apple Bloom talks "the more we do it, the better we get at camping" sounds like at least Applejack and Apple Bloom have been camping here a bunch of times, even if the others haven't come along for an official annual event. Which in turn suggests that on weekends between wacky adventures, Applejack and Apple Bloom have the down time for frequent camping trips.

The evacuation uses a dual propulsion sail/oar ship of a style I can’t readily identify. 

A knarr, perhaps?

It's possible that Mistmane's home is comparable to Spring and Autumn period China, only instead of kings, the various states are ruled by competing emperors who all claim sole legitamacy. Periods of conflict often give rise to legends, after all.
The area could exist within Equestria's sphere of influence, yet Equestria itself could easily simply refuse to get involved in internal disputes.
Alternatively, something like the Silk Road could be in place. Rome and China were very aware of each other, and there is the possibility that individuals from each culture wound up in the other's territory exists. It could be that during Mistmane's time at school, she may have studied abroad, there is no way of knowing how long she studied.

4649193

What’s interesting is that the 1st story of Rockhoof is just a summarized version of the comics, only the latter two are prequels.

No it’s not. Quoting the comics: “Mighty Rockhoof had done the impossible and saved his town when the Mighty Helm could not, but that was not the end.” Comics are explicit sequels in all three cases.

Do we have a lock on Sleepless though? Other than the lack of cutie marks, could it have occurred mid-season 5?

We don’t have one yet. I haven’t been through it with a magnifying glass yet, either.

It’s North and Eastern. Also, I know that mosquitos are terrible in Alaska. Carnivorous insects survive quite well in the arctic, and it seems like the Flyders are carnivorous.

Sure, but why do they prefer the carrot hot dogs for the first few hours?

“Sphere of influence” only by generous standards. Between the physical, cultural, and political differences shown here, and the fact that Mistmane went to the “best magic school around” that wasn’t taught by Celestia, …

Full stop. Celestia’s school simply didn’t exist yet, because, like most of Canterlot, it had yet to be built. :)

I don’t think Celestia started her school before the Nightmare, in any case. Because upon meditation, the best reason for this school to exist is to ensure that every generation has at least some unicorns capable of maintaining control over celestial bodies in case Celestia herself is incapacitated. Up until Luna’s exile, this is not that much of a concern.

Does she actually age, or do those wrinkles just represent ugliness at cartoon resolution? Sable Spirit looks the same when she is ugly, but is restored.

Notice however that her clothing did age instantly.

Which also makes Cloudsdale a pre-Exodus city they just moved to Equestria.

That does seem like it could be a thing…

Everyone knows in fantasy worlds lightning and fire are two entirely separate energy types!

Eh, it’s not about fantasy, it’s about the fact that silicates are typically isolators and the more I think about dragon biology, the more they appear to be almost entirely inorganic.

What’s up with the rainbow juice pouring out? Is that a natural magical phenomenon, or Canterlot’s sewer treatment biproducts?

Decorative clouds around the capital?

We've seen before that the show becomes extra unreliable in flashbacks. Basically what we're seeing on screen is what's imagined by the ones listening to the stories, not what actually happened. That means, for example, that the ponies present think the old pegasi wore Roman-ish armour like that, not that they actually did. Many humans' ideas of the classical world are based more on movies than on reality, and the same would apply here.

I therefore take this whole episode with a very large pinch of salt.

4649193

Which also makes Cloudsdale a pre-Exodus city they just moved to Equestria.

I'd readily believe that they moved some small, symbolic part of the city - call it the MacGuffin - and declared that the new city they built around the MacGuffin was clearly the same Cloudsdale as before because, look, it still has the MacGuffin.

I'm with 4649193 here, in that I think that the settings of these legends must have been real, which is useful for worldbuilding purposes. Furthermore, Luna's appearance in the Mistmane comic, and the fact that the stories of the comics are presented as being written by Star Swirl, suggest to me that the people involved may even have been real, too.

However, I think that the events described are embellishments, based on true stories which were much less impressive or grand, but which got retold like a game of Chinese Whispers until we arrive at the versions we're hearing. So, for example, maybe Flash Magnus was a brave soldier that luckily survived a bout of dragonfire with creative use of his shield, and this evolved into a tale of him surfing on flames with a legendary fireproof shield of heroes, before taking down all the dragons basically by himself. And I like to think that this approach in general could allow us to take the most from these legends, while also explaining away some of the stranger elements, like dragons not being lightning-proof, or Mistmane and Rockhoof BOTH aging instantly into their comic appearances for no obvious reasons.

4649360

However, I think that the events described are embellishments, based on true stories which were much less impressive or grand, but which got retold like a game of Chinese Whispers until we arrive at the versions we’re hearing.

Legends of Magic #1 is the bigger problem, actually. It makes no big difference whether Flash Magnus existed or not, and Roman-style pegasi are not a surprise in any case.

4649193

I thought maybe it was him getting his cutie mark, but he already had it, the triforce.

That's not the Triforce, it's the Valknut, a Norse symbol whose meaning we haven't quite pinned down. Given its apparent association with the cycle of life and death, it's possible that Rockhoof became much more powerful when he was in mortal peril. (Or his sudden evolution into Mudsdale was highly dramatized, but what fun is that?)

4649370

I'll save any comments about Legends #1 for your blog on the subject, if I have any.

4649193
Not just AB, but Rarity as well - hence 'Only 3 suitcases this time'.

I mean it's possible she went from ginormous cart to 3 cases in 1 trip, but to me that's one of the stronger 'Sleepless was multiple years ago' indices, because I feel like Rarity has at least 2 intermediate steps in between we haven't seen.

4649307

Comics are explicit sequels in all three cases.

Shoot, my memory's off. I just remembered him digging on the volcano with a shovel twice.

Notice however that her clothing did age instantly.

It kind of turns tattered and frayed, but I'm not sure if it ages with her or uglifies with her, which either way is weird. If her magic is beatifying everything around her, why not her clothes?

the more I think about dragon biology, the more they appear to be almost entirely inorganic.

The more I think of it, the more I agree with you. Though Spike does eat organic food all the time (his bathroom visits must be terrible), it might just be for taste rather than nutrients. I wonder if there's any connection between angry, aggressive dragons eating an all gem diet while friendly Spike eats both, and angry, aggressive changlings eating an all love diet while Thorax and friends eat both love and regular food.

4649360 I like your interpretation. Though I could see that lightning trick working on dragons, as a rule for why dragons haven't raided Equestrian cities over the past thousand years. (A better rule than "because Celestia fought them off single-handedly.")

I’m a bit disappointed that, at the end of Rarity’s story, Mistmane restored an apple tree, rather than a cherry tree. That was a prime opportunity to reference an old Japanese story, and they didn’t.

  • The destination of this particular trip is “Winsome Falls.” (sp?) The map does not have this location mapped. Further clues presented in the episode are quite confusing.

Winsome Falls is correct, and it’s the same destination from “Sleepless in Ponyville”.

Something FoME pointed out on his blog is that we see bite marks on the unicorns' horns, meaning there's some kind of thin fleshy layer on their horns. Something to play around with.

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It undoes a lot of what we thought we knew about the preclassical pegasi.

How? Their armor is made of a slightly different material than the prop armor worn by Commander Hurricane, which is two whole layers of plausible armor difference. The words 'Royal Legion' only establish that there's a king, and thanks to the ambiguous timescale, we have no idea how relevant that is to what little we did know.

And, what? At some point, pegasi had a magical fireproof shield? What lore does that contradict?

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Something FoME pointed out on his blog is that we see bite marks on the unicorns’ horns, meaning there’s some kind of thin fleshy layer on their horns. Something to play around with.

I find that kinda dubious because we also see the horns being filed for cosmetic purposes. That layer has to end somewhere.

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Congratulations, you now have a legitimate excuse to stare deeply at Rarity's horn, trying to work out where that layer could reasonably end.

  • “According to my book, they’re extremely poisonous!” Actually, Scootaloo’s book only has these particular berries marked as inedible – the poisonous ones, marked with an actual equine skull, are blue. She keeps being severely paranoid for the entire episode, though, as if Sleepless in Ponyvilledidn’t help.

Which is a bit odd, because TV Tropes thinks the orange berries are Duranta eracta berries, which are poisonous to mammals in real life and have caused some pet deaths (no idea if they’ve ever killed horses). And that the one marked with a skull is an eggplant—even though the concentration of toxic solanine in eggplants is too low to pose a threat.

I’m not sure if I buy that, though, because duranta berries are close to spherical, while the orange berries in this episode are definitely ovoid.

❧PoC s7e16 Campfire Tales

❧Fire does not appear to deter flyders in the slightest.
❧Red Bite marks on horns. And Scootaloo's feathers, fairly far out. Implications of bloodflow.
❧RD doesn't do a one-pterippus tornado to take them out like she did with Parasprites back in "Swarm of the Century" because…???
lifting campfire covered
suddenly RD is unswollen

Rockhoof

spears and axes
❧kinda like Eastern four-mirror style armor (except just peytral mirror)

[["good" ol' volcano plot]]
The magic comes from the earth to transform Rockhoof. Spiral energy. Shovel. I'm amazed he doesn't do like Pinkie and go drill.

int2

❧for some reason they're surprised to see such bugs eating their stuff, again despite "Swarm"…and AJ having visual ID of flyders.

Mistmane

folding paper fan, paper lamps, that style of roof
❧Mistmane has a flowing mane akin to Celestia's/Luna's
Sable's very bright-colored for those black veils. For claiming beauty is everything, red/black/her coat color(s) rather clash.
thorn-cocoon-prison
fire and water ryuu summons/"Stands" as one noted
It requires a maintaining beam. Not a given for summons.
entangle/animate rope
Õkami-style flowers blooming in wake of her footsteps

int3

AJ can light fire with friction without any mechanical advantage like a bowdrill
❧nobody is concerned of the fire exhausting the oxygen. But they're asking "if" they can get out the other way?

Flash Magnus

"Royal Legion" noted by so many.
It could imply that this is pre-exodus, and they're for Bullion's realm, or post-Equestria, and …wait, that contradicts the bit about the UPG or whatnot, doesn't it? That might be the point of "before Wonderbolts founded".
❧that is some bad armor [Cmdr has breastplate and all four shoes, tho..maybe they're in an armor shortage situation??] and no belly protection. Those armorkilts might be halvesies too…
shield is strap-to-limb style, which..works better for pterippi than any other tribe. Mind, he takes it off like it's nothing. The scalloped sides are sensible for the secondary wearing-option on the back, but make it seem like it should be terrible at keeping flame-cones off, unless it's actually magical in nature and that fireproofing isn't strictly constrained to metal-surface…
Lightning is anti-dragon here as elsewhere.
An instance not-too-often seen of in-cloud lightning.

int4

❧did someone play FF6 lately or what?
❧natural rainbow precipitation makes the rainbow production facility (and Rainbow Falls) less odd...except naming Rainbow Falls that when it's hardly unique is
❧(a near one is Celestia-colored rather than a normal rainbow)


One of the shots contains three outhouses. Two marked with crescent moon and one marked with a star. No comments.

Significance of moon and sun on outhouse is disputed in our world beyond "ventilation and light". Interesting that there's no sun there…unless…oh my, was that a "where the sun don't shine" joke?

Rarity finds flecks of “gold” in local rocks, but that says pretty much nothing, because it doesn’t have to be actual gold, nor does it have to be commercially exploitable.

Her geology has been noted to be …not up to Maud's standards.

vaguely Chinese culture

Or Japanese?

something that earth ponies would have accomplished with far less effort and no permanent sacrifices. At the cost of her beauty, and apparently, age, at that.

Which makes it 3/3 tribes that unicorns can usurp unique talents from. I suspect the age sacrifice was specifically for the effect on Sable Spirit, though, given that she doesn't seem to age more with further castings.

“…to get to their comrades on the other side.” Gee, why did the pegasus cross the Dragon Lands?… Seriously, what were those comrades doing on the other side?

Hearth's Warming's tale is of the successful expedition for a new homeland, not the only one. So, the ones that went south…had to cross Dragonland.

In Triple Threat, Ember does not consider organics food at all.

Not sure I'd word it that strongly, just "hey, you live in a bucking gingerbread house and I love gingerbread."

At one point, Flash uses the shield to skate on the flame. No comments.

It's Rainbow Dash telling a story to Scootaloo, so…some embellishment may have occurred

I think the waterfalls are at the bottom of the mountain Canterlot is on, though I’m not entirely sure.

Hey, Cloudsdale's leaking rainbows on the map, too.

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As of this writing, the wiki transcript spells it "Netitus." Googling yields zilch in terms of mythological references.

Well, fireproof shield vs. dragon is ridiculously common.
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It's North and Eastern.

…Northwestern?

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Something FoME pointed out on his blog is that we see bite marks on the unicorns’ horns, meaning there’s some kind of thin fleshy layer on their horns. Something to play around with.

I find that kinda dubious because we also see the horns being filed for cosmetic purposes. That layer has to end somewhere.

Where have we seen horn filing? I just tried to search for it and couldn’t turn up anything.

Another data point to add to the “Horns: how do they work?” debate: Rarity’s horn gets saggy (along with the rest of her face) when she spends too long in the sauna. Either the bone and/or keratin only extends to the bottom half of the horn—or alicorn is some exotic biological material that’s hard as bone most of the time, but softens when exposed to water for too long.

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I believe horns have been filed with what we'd call a nail file, either in the spa or just personal beauty moments for Rarity. Idle animations, in video game terms.

Also, the terrain in this area is notably presented as arctic, and there’s little chance such insects could survive there at all. Huh?

You might be surprised at the temperatures arthropods can endure. Mosquitos are a serious problem in summers north of the arctic circle, and there are several species of insects and spiders adapted for living directly in snowbanks in mountain snowcaps and in the arctics. The antarctic midge, for instance, is so well-adapted for life in the Antarctic that it cannot survive temperatures above 10 degrees Celsius or so. The grylloblattids are an entire suborder of insects specialized for living in mountains well above the snowline -- some species outright live in and around glaciers. Insects are very hardy creatures even before you factor in magic's effect on biology.

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You might be surprised at the temperatures arthropods can endure. Mosquitos are a serious problem in summers north of the arctic circle, and there are several species of insects and spiders adapted for living directly in snowbanks in mountain snowcaps and in the arctics.

Yes, but I’m pretty sure it’s not full-grown mosquitoes surviving, but their eggs. Likewise, what kind of prey do you expect those flyders would consume in the area?…

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Strictly speaking, nothing precludes flyders from having a life cycle like mosquitoes do -- dormant eggs in the winter, a brief adult stage in the thaw seasons. In that case, a swarm of adults could still have for whichever reason ended up west and south of their usual range during such a thaw -- if the camping trip is happening in the summer, which is when camping trips usually happen, this could fit with the episode's timing.

As for food: Applejack states that the flyders consider the ponies to be food as well. Assuming that she's correct, then they could swarm and feed on whatever large animals they come across -- which could mean parasitizing them like mosquitos do, rather than actually preying on them. If she's wrong, there are likely still plenty of small creatures -- rodents, for instance, amphibians, or other seasonal invertebrates -- that smaller groups of flyders could feed on, or even carrion.

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