Contested Memory, NOT HISTORY, On Charlottesville's Lee Statue (Or in other words, applying my hard earned, hard paid for MA in History) · 3:19pm Aug 17th, 2017
Taking a step back from the protests in Charlottesville, I'd like to voice my opinions as a historian (nearly MA in History, finally XD) who has studied what we in academia call "historical memory" and "commemoration". In laymen's terms, my last year was spent studying and researching, why people care about history, why people commemorate people and events, why have people commemorated these events and why do they commemorate people and events in certain ways. My research focused mainly on historical films, why do people make them and why do films on national events tend to be filled with... um... such nationalistic fervour.
Now... Trump recently made some comments arguing that the removal of the statue was and I quote his twitter posts,
Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You.....
...can't change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson - who's next, Washington, Jefferson? So foolish! Also...
...the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!
Mind you, that's three twitter posts combined into one big quote for convenience, anyway, let's break this down.
Trump makes a number of claims here, most of which related to the Charlottesville protests which he's... well in my opinion, said some stupid things on (I'm ignoring that for the sake of this more academically focused blog post, let's say i'm not a fan of what he's said and leave it for now), but let's take a step back analyze the one I found most interesting as a historian of memory and commemoration.
His claim that the history and culture of [(brackets for my paraphrasing) America is] being ripped apart with the removal of [American/certain] statues and monuments.
He also claims (implied) that by removing these monuments and statues, people are changing history.
As a historian of commemoration... my educated opinion is that these two claims of Trumps are... just plain wrong.
History and memory are separate concepts. For the sake of simplicity (though I recommend people reading "What is History" by EH Carr for more info on the complex definition of history) I'm going to point out that the public and historians have two definitions of history. For the public it's simply, what has occurred in the past. For academics (pasty left wing stuck ups like myself) it's the ongoing study of what happened that is achieved through academic research, debate and thus history, are events in the past that exist as reached by consensus by multiple historians that pat each other's backs and say "eeyup this is what happened."
You see where I'm getting here?
Removing the statues can't possibly damage American history. According to most of the public (not simply American), history is what happened. It's immutable, it's the truth of what happened. Removing statues doesn't change those events.
Neither can you say from the academic point of view that removing statues changes history or erases it. It's the historians who in the academic world, determine history as it's told so... removing statues could be in the extreme considered removing evidence of the civil war's existence, but there is a LOT OF evidence that the civil war occurred ranging from documents, preserved battlefields, memoirs, wrecks, etc that serve as better pieces of evidence that there was a civil war. Not to mention that according to wikipedia, the statue was finished in 1924, so it's not even great evidence that there was a civil war.
On the count of ripping or changing history, Trump's just wrong, at least according to the definitions I've been taught and the definitions I go by. That's 1.5 of his claims on twitter out of the window right now.
Okay vren55 what's the 0.5 left to analyse?
Well Trump also claimed that "the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments."
Culture is a funky thing. So this is where we get into the other term I brought up, Memory. Which seems to be the more accurate term for what Trump is referring to.
Memory is an ENTIRELY different thing from history. Memory in short is what the common average person remembers history as. It's not immutable. It's ever-changing, dependent on location, determined by the films we watch, education level, media we consume, and thus the time we live in and the events that take place around us. The culture of a country and a country's cultural policies also has a large role in determining memory of events. *cough cough, foreshadowing of vren55 discussion point later*
Sometimes called collective memory (as we historians sometimes like to refer to, though this term is disputed) the memory of history of a large group of people, eg. country, can be standardized through ritualistic practices, Remembrance Day/Veterans Day/Memorial day/Anzac Day (for Aussies and NZ's), being one of them. Other examples include. National anniversaries eg. Independence Day, Canada Day, provincial/statewide national anniversaries, historical reenactments, etc. I can go on and on. The point being, the public's memory of history can be firmed up through acts of commemoration, ritualistic acts that tie action to the memory of an event.
And statues have an interesting role in memory. They are inanimate objects and the meanings around them can change, but they can also be employed as tools in commemoration ceremonies and in shoring up memory.
Cue entrance of the Robert E. Lee statue and Trump's comments. What was the statue made for is not important at the moment. The personage of Lee isn't important either, or his opinions. What the statue's meaning and R. E Lee has become associated with is. That's the current public memory of the American Civil War the statue brings up, which is mixed.
For some Robert E Lee is a hero, a symbol of the south, a symbol for white supremacy.
For others, he's a symbol of oppression, of someone who divided his nation, who fought to divide his nation.
I'll get my opinion on him out of the way, Lee's a complicated man, a brilliant general, who hated slavery (seriously he did) but could not fight his native state (which honestly I can understand). He did rip the country apart and prolong the civil war through his support of the south, but he remained a modest and fairly honorable man in the restoration period, refusing to be used as a figurehead for the South and instead served as a Chancellor for a university.
Anyway suffice it to say, the statue of Robert Lee evokes various memories for various people. None of them are wrong per se, historically inaccurate yes, but memory is memory.
By this logic, removing Robert Lee's statue would in part, remove what evokes memories. It wouldn't damage history, but it will remove a spark for memories related to the history of the civil war.
Would it 'damage' the culture of America though?
No... because culture and memory are... intertwined. Basically, culture was why the statue of Lee, which evoked such historical memories and removing the statue is a sign that the culture of america has already changed to a point it wouldn't tolerate such a statue. Or that it would debate the removal of it.
I said that a country's cultural policies regarding commemoration (aka, what rituals should public follow, what statues should go up, funding for those statues, funding for historical education etc.) shape memory. It does, but the memory of collectives (countries and the public of the country) also exert an influence on the cultural policies enacted by the government. This is because culture, and national beliefs are often based off of "founding myths' which are basically standardized memories of history. Eg. The Founding Fathers and Independence Day for America, Canada Day and Confederation for Canadians, people retell and commemorate them, not necessarily accurately, but in certain ways so that the public has this widespread "memory" of these events, which often shapes into how they see and understand the culture of their countries/areas.In this way, culture and memory are intertwined.
The reason the Lee statue was being removed was because people who followed a certain culture, and thus had certain beliefs, didn't like the memory that he evoked. My theory is that this memory turned negative probably in light of the Trump election, which brought about an increased sensitivity to racism and sexism in America, which of course, influences the memory of the Civil War, and colors prominent confederates in a negative fashion.
Of course, not everybody is part of the dominant culture of America which values ethnic freedom and equality and merit, as shown by the white supremacist protests. They have a different memory of the civil war and the Lee statue evokes a different memory. They, who are predominantly white, have a different culture from other Americans and so have a different memory. And when different memories of certain events clash and conflict, then it becomes "contested" memory in which the statue and Robert E Lee have become the battleground for, leading to the murder of poor Heather Heyer. In this contest, memory and culture can never be damaged, they both always exist, it can only change.
In summary, Trump's wrong on all counts. Removing the statues certainly doesn't damage history. It certainly indicates a shift in the memory of the Civil War and perhaps in the culture of America, but not the "damaging of it" because people always remember history, and culture is intertwined with memory. Culture and memory can change, but you can't remove one or the other.
If you read through all of that, I hope you've enjoyed it. Because that was fun, and I hope to god I don't get flamed over this.
As a southerner and amateur historian allow me to explain a bit more from the south's perspective. First let me say this, the many of the porters on both sides are insane. Both sides have been using increasing violence (some counter protesters used makeshift explosives at the berkeley riots) that was escalated horrifically at Charlottesville. The blame for what happened at Charlottesville lies entirely with the neo nazis that were there and nothing can change that. However it is more complicated than just an increase in awareness in racism and sexism in America. What is happening in large part is the rise in identitarian politics, the idea that being white or black or whatever you are identifies you. At Charlottesville for instance there was graffiti that was around that said things like death the white people, right next to a swastika. Many in the south feel that they are under direct threat from the events just as much as the left feels it is under attack. The real threat lies in that the more these events are given attention and the media takes the lefts side, them more people feel the need to push back. Many formally rational a normal people I know have felt the need to take a side just to defend themselves. This is the real economy, radicalism. Radicalism and violence are increasing on both sides, and at this point there seems to be no way to stop it. Trump is right that if both sides can't calm down we will face a massive crisis. The left's claims of injustice are not without merit, in many cases they are correct. At the same time many on the right see this as a direct attack on their culture, and are responding as such. The more statues are taken down, the more limits on free speech are put in place, the more we talk about identitarian politics, the more people on both sides stop listening to each other. While many of these people on the right are just angry racist, many more are disenfranchised young men who see their homeland under attack. If history has taught us one thing, it is that when people people in a democracy stop talking and start fighting, then that democracy is doomed. We are still a long long way from that, but it is keeping me up at night.
Sorry if this is rambling but I have an exam in a bit and just wanted to add my thoughts, great work as always Vren and thanks for the thoughtful discussion.
Edit/tldr,
If anyone case anyone wants to hear more of my madness I could do a better follow up later. Also to be clear I am not defending the people at Charlottesville, they are indefensible. However there are many people who are angry at the left that do have valid points, and as they feel more ignored the more likely they are two join a radical side. As this is now happening on both sides we are getting stuck in a positive feedback loop that could have terrible effects. it is not the right or the left that is the threat, it is the rising Radicalism on both sides.
(warms up flamethrower)
Just kidding. I'll be serious for a change.
Look, what is going on here is egotistical virtue signaling on a vast scale.
These statues (and other misc. bits of artwork around the country) are symbolic, yes. They were crafted and placed as a symbol of remembrance of the conflict, like tombstones standing watch over the vast number of dead from the Civil War, where the present descendants can reminisce about their long-gone ancestors. But they are symbolic of the conflict, not bigoted racist expressions of some undefined white power intent on crushing all minority thought and so on, and so forth, et al.
The symbolism that *both* sides of this current screaming fit have glommed onto is totally in their own pointy little heads, like all symbolism is. It is a clash between the National Socialist Worker's Party and the Socialists, which the press seems bound and determined to blame on Republicans somehow.
As an example of how stupid the argument is, let us propose for sake of argument that all symbols of slavery need to be torn down and destroyed. All of the statues of southern generals, their pictures, the slave-holding properties of such fiends put to the torch, the destruction of all of their works such as Monticello, Mount Vernon, most of Mount Rushmore, Washington D.C.... Wait, what? Oh, yes. Two noted slave owners, right there. Congratulations, Antifa. You're now the Inquisition. Next thing you know, you'll be demanding "Dig up his bones!" like the Inquisition did to uncounted heritics who had the audacity of dying before they could be properly admonished.
I love a good argument. It's fun to debate the little points.
You've only addressed one of those quotes to my satisfaction and that's the first. I feel you've mangled the second one and I'm not sure why the third is there.
Your quote of Trump is here.
And you said he is implying that taking down statues changes history. He is not. He is almost outright stating (in my opinion) that the people taking down the statue are trying to change history. It is a distinction I would like to make clear. He said it cannot be changed. He agrees with you. Or you with him.
Whoever had the opinion first.
The thing he says that you can do is learn from history. So the implication I get from that quote is that those want the statue gone want to villify Lee or just ignore him. Now maybe Trump said it somewhere else. I'm just going off your post.
Now you're basing a large chunk of your argument on what you've said on what I feel is a mistake. You've got at least four paragraphs up there that argue along the point that Trump thinks removing statues is "changing history".
And this quote
Why is it there? I don't actually see you directly address it anywhere.
Now as to your end point that culture can only change I would like to bring in a physics example. If I were to burn wood I would be converting it to energy and various byproducts. But I would also be destroying the log, end table or box. Whatever I was burning, it would still exist, just in a different form.
In the same vein, the culture of America has changed but a culture that makes up part of it has been damaged. Any groups that looked up to Lee either as a symbol of Southern pride, white supremacy or state patriotism have been dealt a psychological blow. Is it acceptable to be proud of Lee or to look up to him?
Sorry I like to be contrary.
4638009
From what i have seen on twitter and social media, some people already made clear they want to see Washington, Ben Franklin and such gone, but only once they are done with Southern Symbols so for now your fine.
Next step would be burning books, but that stuff already happened i guess?
I was fascinated when someone pointed out to me some similarities between what is going on in the US today and pre-nazi germany, with nationalists and communists attempting to gain power for themselves and the media siding with one side for their own reasons/benefits. (The nazis in the Weimar Republic and the Communists in US now).
I imagine just like then the elites in germany thought they could control Hitler, like after Hitlers rise the Brittish Government and people like Halifax and Chamberlain thought Churchil could be easily controlled, so i imagine whatever elites are behind the communists think they will be able to control them.
Fascinating time to live in i guess.
4637985
Sorry but i will have to disagree with you on that one, unless you believe that violence is a acceptable answer (then you should be willing to accept violence being done to you as well though in return), the anarcho communists were the ones that instigated the violence and death (from the footage i saw related to the car crashing into the blockade, ancom thug(s) were starting to bash the car with some kind of rods or such before the guy hit the gas, with that alone you cannot argue that it was intentional on the drivers part without dismissing the threat to his life, what would be silly)
If you are saying that they (the alt right, alt right, neo nazis, white supremacists and all other types who gathered there) are to blame for being there and gathering peacefully, then again i have to disagree with you. If you wish to fight them debunk their ideas and dont use violence that just gives cause to their claims that you just wish to "replace" "kill off" or whatever them.
There is a reason this neonazis now go out in suits and give speeches rather then do what antifa does now (what is a copy of what the nazis did back in the 30s ironically), it works better and gives them more credibility when they are attacked without a real reason other then "he ebil!". Their views are messed up, but unless you want to replace their own totalitarian view with a even worse one (in my tainted opinion as a person who lived under communism), you will have to defend their right to hold their view( defending the very right that all people should have is not the same as endorsing all the messed up stuff they believe, is it? ). If they act on them let the bashing begin, but as of now its the other side that is the one doing the organized violence and political intimidation.
4638138 I'll second your opinion here. Admittedly, had the white supremacists not shown up, none of this would have happened (See History, Alternate), but there have been this kind of posturing and overdone protests on their behalf before without violence. Quite a few, in fact. Skokie, IL comes to mind right off. In those cases, the police kept the two sides apart, the nuts made their speeches, and everybody went home.
In this case, the rally was proceeding with the two sides generally (but not totally) kept apart by metal barriers and police presence right up until thirty minutes before the speeches were scheduled to start. Then the VA governor Terry McAuliffe (D) declared a state of emergency, and police began to clear the relatively peaceful assembled crowd inside the metal barriers by shoving them out into the assembled Antifa thugs and pepper spraying anybody who did not move fast enough.
Things went rapidly downhill at that point.
4638128
Interesting certainly.
4638187
I imagine/hope police would have rather allowed the crowd to disperse in the opposite direction of the antifa crowd as it seems like they were ordered to herd them to antifa. As it was a open park and the north side(? Or south) was clear.
And it wasnt that some werent moving fast enough, they refused to move at all and told them to arrest them, but that would probably mean the police had to defend them so instead they maced them to make them leave.
Also know of a youtuber who got sprayed with that stuff in the eyes vy antifa, might be permanently blimded from it apparently, ouch.
4637985
You are correct for the most part and both sides are just as evil as each other there since we're seeing what are essentially Communists and Nazi's having violent brawls in the streets, but I feel like the problems on the Left are exactly what made this happen in the first place. The attack on white people on college campuses with affirmative action, racial based segregation where white people are treated like they have the plague and black people are treated like coddled children, and racial threats like how some are cheering for the extinction of white people. It's a reaction against the bigotry and hatred of the Left, or as Trump called it, "The Alt-Left". Many with hard Left political views have been pushing identity politics cancer for decades, except now the Right-wing and white people have their own identitarian movement that is just as radical and violent as many of those on the Left. The white supremacy group in Charlottesville didn't spring from the ether.
I'm a white male southerner from Tennessee and I see some of this shit here too, especially at the University of Tennessee here in Knoxville. Days after Trump's election, a co-worker showed me a video she took of anti-Trump protestors walking in downtown Gay Street chanting "Not My President!". I'm so glad I dropped out of college.
On an unrelated topic, this also applies to men and women as well with how modern 3rd Wave Feminism is a female supremacist movement. (Seriously, every day there's another pro-Female ad or social campaign to push women to be better than men at everything, yet everyone ignores that male circumcision is still common and suicide\depression for males is still at record highs.) It's also why there's a growing well spring of male centered groups like the Men's Rights Movement (It's actually peaceful. I recommend watching the documentary The Red Pill by Cassy Jay and Honey Badger Radio), MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way, which is essentially men viewing women as people to avoid relationships with) and Pick-up Artists among other groups.
This hatred on the Left-wing side of politics is pretty widespread and it's essentially coming from the universities where professors indoctrinate students in Social Justice, the mainstream press who are obviously very biased to the Left and refuse to denounce Antifa, and social media which are doing their damnedest to create society wide echo chambers trying to force out any political view that isn't Cultural Marxist. (Yes, it's a real ideology and there are books written about it and its founders.) So it's not by any stretch of the imagination that an opposing identitarian group trying to protect themselves out of fear and anger would surface too.
have one less follower
*Sigh*
I wish we could be done with this hate. I wish we could be done with the fear.
Both sides are pushing anyone not with them. Both sides are attacking anyone not with them.
The whole thing isn't about the history. Though history has its own take on the what has been.
Its the why for their perceived reasons of being there. Both sides are so radicalized, that they don't see anything but the other side as a foe to crush. It doesn't matter who they get in the crossfire, so long as they win.
This thing, has been the spark thats ignited a bonfire, and both sides are stoking it into a raging inferno to toss anyone they dont agree with into it. Their culture, their identity, their beliefs, and even those seeking sanctuary because both sides have been destroying the middle of this.
I am a white, southern male. Spent most of my time in southern states as a navy brat. Grew up in southern traditions and mannerisms. And sadly, we have a local kkk chapter here in the city I live in. Sadly, if this keeps getting worse, and the violence more so. I just hope that I wont be having to side with a devil for physical safety. (Since this happened, we've had almost daily shootings that are racially motivated.)
I don't go beyond a few places online anymore due to how bad the hate and fear is for being self cyclical. It rebounds, it echoes, and already has cost one patreon i support to withdraw from doing so for being as bad as the ones that are spreading hate. And destroyed me on ever taking up another. I see no reason to continue supporting hate. When hate is so rampant for what you are born as, over what you have done, no matter who you are. I'm sorry, but you've lost me.
But then the pickle frangled the muffin.
4638009
A lot of these statues were put up in the 1940s - 1960s. It's rather hard for me to see them as 'Southern Pride' when they were put up as a direct response to the Civil Rights era.
4638877
But is it also right that the government of Memphis, Tennessee removed the busts and moved the body of a Confederate general, Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was one of the first members of the Ku Klux Klan? It was right after the Charleston shooting where a white supremacist shot up a black church and killed 17 people.
I also say this because the way they treated the Confederate general was not only highly disrespectful, cowardly, and shameful, but it said to everyone that said general was guilty of crimes the Left and BLM accused people of that era and people of the South of. Even before that, many statues, monuments, and memorials of the Civil War era were repeatedly vandalized for several years before it. (Majority of activists were from out of state too.) The Memphis government's decision to virtue signal to the Left and the Black Lives Matter activists made my blood boil.
And before anybody accuses me of protecting racism and slavery, here's a short speech from said Confederate general. A big problem is many people are very ignorant of history and never looked into it. Another is people today try to judge the past by today's standards. Here's what I found with a single search.
Malicious intent or not, I think many only have this scene from Forest Gump to go on. Shows how much pop culture and hand waved explanations can be just as bad historical revisionism as government institutionalized propaganda.
And yes, I know about the "Fort Pillow Massacre" and the rumors he was a Grand Dragon (Leader) of the KKK. I've looked, but there is no evidence he was a leader and left the Klan in disgust within a decade and there are so many conflicting stories of the events of the "Massacre" where Bedford tried to make the fort surrender or slaughtered many of the Union men there, we'll never really know.
Do you think Memphis had a right to remove him disrespectfully in some implied shame or guilt over the distant past to a bunch of Left-wing activists and a domestic terrorist group?
Me personally? I believe that these statues just belong in museums. Not to be celebrated or hated, but as a history lesson so that we can't repeat history... Or at least make it near impossible.
Both groups are pieces of shit, I'll tell you that much.
This has been quite a interesting discussion. I had wondered a few things about the statue and this answered them. I know the park was once named after lee and since it changed names there wasnt much point in the statue staying anyway.
That said the four or five smaller statues torn down by protesters shouldnt be allowed thats pretty much vandelisum. Particularly since city planners seem content to remove things if enough complaints are logged.
All that aside what i take from this is some people seem to view this as a form of censorship by people who are often refered to whiney special snowflakes by everything from media to many social sites. The less moderate on both sides then get into' bigger dick' contests and drag others along for the ride.
4637985 Welcome. And I see your point.
4638009 possibly could be egotistical virtue... though shouldn't it be more... conflicts over how the war should be remembered than egotistical virtue? I mean we find the removal of the statues wrong... or problematic b/c we think they don't quite symbolize slavery directly, but others find that they do. Certainly you and to some extent, I see that the removal of the statues is going a bit far. But I'm pretty sure there will be a point where people just won't care about the statues removal... or would actually put up a new one. IDK just theorizing.
4638099 it's a bit contrary... and as for your first trump remark.. yeah I just realized that, but honestly, he's kinda self-contradicting here accusing the left of trying to change history while saying that it can't be changed... blargh. Trump.
As for the other, that makes sense, and yeah it's why we have this conflict over Lee's statues. One side wants to remember him as a slaver the other says well no, he's a symbol of southern pride and hell one of the more anti-slave ones for that matter. (or whatever they use him as).
4638128 4638138 honestly as see both at fault, though from what I've read/seen I blame the neo-nazis more. That's IMO of course, and thing is... violence on both sides has been unacceptable. Though the Neo-nazis escalated it with the driving of car into people.... which possibly might be used too much by the left as a hammering point...... damn politics
4638192 perhaps too interesting :P
4638234
While I agree Mass Media = being stupidly echoey and are appealing to left.... and I've seen examples of extreme feminism. What daafuq are you on about with the unis? Not that I'm saying this doesn't happen in america, but I've never encountered this in the Canadian unis I've studied at. How is it possible to indoctrinate 20 year olds in ideology. I mean... they're 20 year olds.
Also, Social media isn't simply turning out cultural marxists, it's turning out neo-nazis and white supremacists as well b/c they use it as echo chambers. It's an old problem dating back to ww2 when the allies started cracking German codes. When we get more information, our actions return to... uhhh how to say it, our more primary tendancies and beliefs. If we were already cautious, we get more cautious.
I'm not dismissing your points out of hand, but I've heard this reasonings before and have rarely encountered that kind of extreme leftist rant in unis. Is this just an american thing?
4638587 Uhh... may I know why?
4638631 Uhh Stratovarian, if the blog post I wrote offended you because of who you are, I really didn't mean it and it wasn't intended that wawy because I don't like hating people either and I like to think I reserve my dislike for certain specific people. DEFINITELY Not southerners as a whole. There were a LOT of very honorable southern generals. Lee for instance. Zervziel's from the South as well and he's totally chill. I've even had a caucasian girlfriend at one point and English is more of my native language than Chinese :p
Point is with this post was that I wanted to discuss some definitions of history, where Trump probably misunderstood what was going on, and the difficulties with memory conflicts. Not offend or accuse all southerners of bing KKK... b/c they're not. They're just not. SO please?
4638877 AAACTUALLLY Politifact indicates that the article that spread that around is false. :P They weren't put in response to the Civil Rights Era. The Lee one is actually dating from right after WW1.
4638958 unfortunately, putting them in a museum, which is what they wanted to do... kinda brings up more problems. Which aren't invalid.
4638978 Possibly... i don't think it's as simple as that though and I don't think it's... right to say some southerner's claims are invalid. Lee's statue is... a valuable symbol in a memory rituatl that is... benign. The commemoration of one of hte Civil War's leading strategical minds, and one who did his best to put his country back togheter after he fought for what he believed in
4639125
True. No issue on anything is simple.
4639121
I spoke in a context wrongly here, its more a general state of things.
You are fine, and seeing how I wrote what I did, i see how it can be derived in a different manner in which it got inferred. And im very sorry to have inferred what I did in the manner. That wasn't my intention, especially with the nuance of language that is english. Sorry there.
I'm someone that prefers balance. I worst best stable on taking a middle ground, and so much as is the case as you bring up, and I tried to/failed to do is just, is well. Say how tired I am of the extremes from both sides. And that I more just, wish that both sides you bring up here, could stop their hate. And how it keeps getting blown up.
I just 'gave up' trying to persuade sides to return to moderation. The fire is roaring, and its only a matter now to live through it on my end. Thats what I meant with this, not that I gave up on what you've done, and im sorry that it was inferred that way. It wasn't my intention. But really more so, that i've already burned so much with this. (One patreon, and the whole system of ever going into it again.) Alongside likely friends in the pony community, both artists and others who have embraced the extremist views.
I'm sorry to have given the very wrong impression here, and hope you can forgive the wrong impression I left with multi-purpose definitions unintentionally.
4639121
Trying is the key word. It means it's an attempt but not saying it will lead to success. The same way you can try and drink from a bottomless cup. It's not exactly going to get you anywhere.
4639177 (paraphrased) For every problem, there is a solution which is quick, easy, and totally wrong.
4639121 "AAACTUALLLY Politifact indicates that the article that spread that around is false. :P They weren't put in response to the Civil Rights Era. The Lee one is actually dating from right after WW1."
Post both major wars, there was a lot of industrial capacity suddenly freed up, with a wealthier class and a great number of dead to mourn, prime time for sculptors to put forward plans.
4639121
I already said it but ill repeat that, ill wait for actual facts. I have seen the videos and antifa attacking the car before the driver accelerating into the crowd, did he do it because he got scared he will be dragged out and beaten like sometimes Antifa do? If not for fear, why did the guy ram his own private car into another and into people? What would the motive be and if he wasnt smart enough to realize that he would easily be caught why would he do it. The media and the antifas who blocked the road telling me that he was a neo nazi and that he did it intentionally ill take with a grain of salt. If he did do it intentionally, regardless if hes a white supremacist/neo nazi/ whatever then lock the fucker up. But proving intent in actual court might be harder for anything other then 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter.
If we will play the blame game and do mental gymnastics like many people nowdays like to do, if the Antifa didnt block the road and attacked the cars , would the person have died?
The obvious answer is no, it doesnt take into account anything other then that but its still a no.
But it not taking into account anything else is why its bs, if they didnt block the road but attacked cars there wouldnt have been such a mass of people and one of them wouldnt have died then, if they did block roads but didnt attack cars (one thats less likely considering the violent nature of the group) no one would have likely died either.
Ill also ask, since Antifa came armed unlike the neo nazis, whos intent was it to do violence? Although for this one ill say, its most likely that the neo nazis would have wanted violence too, but unlike antifa they would not get away with getting in armed and unlike antifa the police wouldnt ignore/avoid them like they do with antifa and letting them do stuff like the blockade. And here i must admit i chuckled when i saw the video of the car ramming into people, specifically chuckling at some antifa guy yelling at a police officer asking "WHERE WERE YOU?!?!" when they finally showed up. Obviously they had orders to let antifa do whatever they wanted, if they were present and not ignoring the antifa thugs they couldnt have allowed the blockade in the first place.
All this is based on the assumption that the guy didnt actually intentionally do it though, but if he did why didnt he ram into the sidewalk and into the crowd of antifa rather then into the car in front of him. And he probably passed other antifa groups he could have rammed into before.
Also whats your opinion on stuff like the vandalizing of Lincoln statues now, and stuff like the vice article calling for the blowing up of Mount Rushmore( they changed it to "getting rid of" i saw when i checked again LOL xD )
To end it ill agree with you that both sides are to blame, but ill disagree on the "whos to blame more" for it part mostly because of the power dynamic in their favor, antifa always come in ready for violence and im always amazed when they then panic/cry/whatever when it happens (to them, not when they do it to others of course).
4638906
Yes. The South fought to keep people in chains. Those who fought for the South besmirched their own honor by fighting for the cause of Slavery, and I do not feel they deserve to be honored as heroes and patriots. I have zero issue with each and every Confederate statue taken down and relocated to where they belong - a museum where they can exist in the context of history rather than public honor.
4639121
Reading that, yes, it appears I have my dates wrong on the statues and it was more flags that were prominent then. The statues did however always carry the 'Know your place' message - which is why they were put in places like Statehouses and Courthouses, rather than say, parks created as memorials to that period.
4639121
Oregon State University Will Force Incoming Students to Take 'Social Justice Training', Students will learn to report bias incidents (like pro-Trump chalk messages).
Taxpayer-Funded Universities Are Forcing Social Justice Indoctrination On EVERY STUDENT
A real look at campus 'hysteria and indoctrination' coming in 2018, Carolla & Prager crowdfund 'No Safe Spaces' documentary on college snowflakes
How a University Moved from Diversity to Indoctrination
Insanity grows on Australian campuses: Melbourne U starts “white male privilege” workshops
Draining The Higher-Ed Swamp: The Case For Closing Evergreen State College
These are just a few links I got from random search results. The general thesis is that there are an overwhelming amount of Western\Liberal college and university campuses that only have a single point of view that they teach. That point of views are very much into Social Justice and ideas like 3rd Wave Feminism, Black Lives Matter, White Privilege, Political Correctness, Affirmative Action, etc. Courses in Social Justice, Gender Studies, and Race Studies are common in nearly every campus and teaches one sided, pseudo-science views that any self-respected and rational scientist, biologist, or historian would tell you is false. Many of these courses are becoming mandatory and many teachers within these schools are trying to turn many of these students into activists. There are many links and instances of things like this that are all across the Western world, mainly the US, Canada, and the UK; not just a few 'problematic' campuses like Berkley University earlier this year where full scale riots erupted. 20 year old students are still young and impressionable enough to believe what they hear without question, especially if they believe their professors are supposedly more knowledgeable.
People like this are exemplary of what I believe is the problem within schools and she doesn't get the backlash from school administrators she deserves. Her cult (yes, by all definitions), By Any Means Neccessary, are heavily embedded in Detroit schools. Someone like her doesn't surprise me anymore and I believe they are the real fascists (as much as that term has come to mean nothing anymore). She's a grade school teacher that organized the protest\riots outside of Berkely. There's several rules I've come to believe are true about people like Yvette Felarca: 1. SJW's Always Lie. 2. SJW's Always Double Down When Caught In A Lie. 3. SJW's Always Project. What she's saying can very much be attributed to herself and her protestor allies. "Milo is a Fascist", when he's a free speech advocate, he doesn't advocate for violence, he never shuts up about his homosexual relationships with his black boyfriends, and openly says he's a provocateur. (His campus speeches are available all over YT.) "His fans shot an anti-Fascist protestor", after the Antifa member was beating the MAGA hat wearing man with a pole, the MAGA guy pulled out his concealed gun in self-defense.
Her kind of speech is the only thing that is allowed to get away with being voiced on campuses. Anybody saying or being an activist in anything else that would be more Classically Liberal or Right-leaning usually gets ostracized, their grades marked down, harassed by students and\or teachers, or kicked out for violating some "safe-space" policy. (Read up on what happens to people who are Pro-Life or activists for that in college.) The more politically Left a college is, the more hostile it is.
As for social media, the problem is that many people who are calling out things like what I said above are being banned, shadow banned, or silenced in every way possible. It's not from the government, but the heads and upper management of corporate companies like Google, Twitter, and Facebook who are very much into Feminism, Social Justice, Cultural Marxism, and Progressivism. Google is the worst right now with having fired an employee for publishing a memo that says things that are scientifically accurate (i.e. men and women are different and make different choices,) and goes against the company's ideas. There are other (anonymous) employees that have come out saying Google is a very hostile work environment, is run more like a church, and doesn't tolerate other ideas. This is after photos of known 3rd Wave Feminists getting invites and special treatment to the company, YouTube's snitching program YouTube Heroes, Creators losing hundreds of subscribers every time they post a video, hundreds or thousands of comments being scrubbed from channels, the Adpolalypse and the false allegations against PewDiePie\JonTron, a new demonetization "algorithm" that's essentially a blacklist, and now the firing of an employee that didn't like that Google was going to be doing racist and very illegal hiring\firing practices in the name of "Diversity" and published said memo. They're not the only ones after Zuckerberg was on a hot mic with Angela Merkle about how to censor Facebook or how Twitter shadow bans people and manipulates results all the time. Is it any wonder why I say social media is creating echo chambers, especially from a single point of view that is Cultural Marxist?
4639341
So because Nathan Bedford Forrest fought for the Confederate states, even after wanting reconciling between the races during his life, you still besmirch him as an honorless coward who fought for slavery, along with everyone else in the Southern states. And because you're judging him and people back then by today's standards, instead of the standards of the past where their better actions and sacrifices were remembered by, they need to have their bodies desecrated, all pieces of history scrubbed from the public, and let everyone feel collective self-flagellating shame for the past. Oh in your opinion, it's not up to the people who live their to decide what to do. No, the rest of America has to judge it for us and pressure us to bow to your whims. No other thoughts needed.
You know that is the reason why so many out there hate people like you, and there have been massive protests against you taking down these statues or monuments?
4639121
Yes you may. I hate SJW bullshit.
4639702 *blinks* What exactly about my blog post was SJW BS? I mean I literally was pointing out that memory and culture change, not that one is necessarily right or not, but that it does change and people are going to fight over it. I certainly have an opinion on what's right or not, but I don't think I was spouting "THE RIGHT SHOULD DIE" Which part looked like it?
4639311 4639700
Uhhh I don't agree with your opinion on the google memo Johnny. Then again, maybe I read different sources and come to a different conclusion so let's agree to disagree. Honestly never even knew about the claims versus facebook and twitter... though from the little I've read, i thought the right provoked them to react first, but then again, that's what I've read, and I'm going to need to do more reading and thinking on that subject
4639341
I'm not american, but while sometimes I think that monuments and stuff do have to be changed (AKA I really hate the First Canadian Prime Minister b/c he was an asshole, corrupt, took bribes, also knowing caused the death of thousands of First Nations (yes he was racist)) I think what's important is consensus and looking at both sides rationally. Ofc, it's difficult to argue against extremists of any kind, but it should come down to a forum... not violence.
Also, why do you call the antifa antifa? Anti-fa = anti-fascists... which is good right? I mean fascism is bad. If they're calling themselves the antifa then I got nothing cause that's not even uber-left BS it's... just historically inaccurate.
4639341 4639700 Annnd this debate you two are havingon the Forrest statue is a good example over the type of battles over memory I'm pointing out. Even the idea of whether we can judge people by their past actions is debatable. I honestly don't have a consistent opinion for this one. Clearly the later speech Forrest gave indicated that he changed. But on the other hand does that erase what he did? And do we even have the right to judge him given he's dead. But then again, should we commemorate someone who did make some fairly significant mistakes, even if he recanted? All lovely questions that frankly don't necessarily have a right answer.
Regarding judging someone by present standards... I as a historian (mind you, I"m not American) have to struggle with this constantly. This probably is going to annoy both of you, but my opinion and tendency for someone like Forrest is... yes I have the right to judge him based on what I belief, but I must be clear about his beliefs, his upbringing, why he made his decision, did he change his decision. I understand he did some bad things (though yes Walker, you're right in that W.T Sherman concluded he didn't massacre those people) and I understand he help rebel against the Union... who the Confederates felt had betrayed their interests (which yeah... that's why I don't have things against Confeds fighting for state rights). On the other hand he was a slave owner and did not treat them well... but he was brought up to know that slaves were less than human sooooo how would one expect him to end up? And fact is... he did make that nice speech on interracial harmony.
blargh, history's complicated, especially one as divisive as the American Civil War...
4640097
I assume this is for me?
The car crash happened some 2 hours after the assembled people in the park were already thrown into the antifa crowd by the police (shorty before noon when the rally was supposed to start)... So in combination with your earlier comment that you thought that the car crash is what caused the escalation of the violence thats just wrong.
if by provoked you mean just them gathering after getting permits and all... thats you saying violence is a acceptable answer for non violence. Thats as unacceptable to me as it was when the soviets marched their tanks on protesters. Equating (even mean/harmful) words with actual physical harm is nonsense and will only lead to catastrophe, saying that if someone insults you (or you just feel insulted regardless of intent) you can attack them in "self defense" is a dangerous path to tread on. Most of this authoritarian twats will gladly pursue such mean for empowering them, but then cry foul when it gets used on them.
Antifa (Ancoms but using what they call themselves is just easier to use for others to understand who one is talking about) kept their violence going hours after the alt right was already dispersed by the police.
Thats why i said that its obvious that the ones who came in to fight (and kept going even when it was already over for hours) were obviously the ones who should be blamed more for it, the blockade they did happened hours later NOT before the dispersed rally and the clashes that happened before the rally.
Regarding google and the memo from James Demore, i suggest this interview made by professor Jordan Peterson with Demore and another still google employer (who wanted to stay unidentified) for at least a counter balance to the nonsense i read in the media (compared to what was actually written in the "memo" that contained actual suggestions how to increase the diversity and the number of women in tech within google without using the semi to outright illegal methods google uses)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU
Plus it has many scientific studies sourced for the statements in the memo. I would suggest not blindly trust media (or especially social media like facebook and twitter who actively manipulate data for their own agenda) in such controversial topics, especially when said topics go against the agenda of said media.
Also after the whole thing with Demore's memo, more then 60 women (current and ex google employees) might file a class action lawsuit against google for discrimination based on sex. hehe When sharks smell blood they come out i guess.
4639700
I'm quite used to people hating me for merely existing, so their hatred over my refusing to side with them on allowing racist monuments to stand does not bother me in the least. 'Reconciliation between the races'? He fought to keep people enslaved. If he truly wanted reconciliation he would have fought for the North to end slavery.
4640097
The Antifa thing is a bugaboo, but it is a far left organization of very loosely affiliated blocs that basically are willing to answer Neonazi protests with their fists. It is the physical violence portion that is problematic. Also, if we waited for consensus I still would be unable to get married so I kind of take a dim view of 'Wait for consensus' when it comes to ending injustice.
4640097
'States Rights' is the rallying cry the South used to conceal that it's about, well, slavery. Because, uh, what right did the South what to keep that the North wanted to take? It was the right to own slaves. The north was prohibiting slavery in new states that were joining as part of the Westward expansion, the South was worried about the North & West uniting against it, and when they were unable to get more slaveholding states and the abolitionist movement was gaining strength - boom. Civil War.
So 'states rights' when the right is 'Enslave other humans'? Yea. I'm quite happy that right was stomped out.
4640238 okay, I see what you mean from what you read. I didn't mean to say that violence is justified. I'm just trying to establish your perspective on the situation and how different from what I read. Which okay yeah if what you are saying is right, then is colored by mass media. Which I have observed are rather... too eager to jump on the label "domestic terrorism" to label the actions of one man.
4640251 *blinks* that's... a much more simple version than what I read, though it makes sense from a certain POV.
4640273
Its not that they are overeager, its that they have a agenda that they wish to push. They dont need to lie to manipulate the view of masses. All they have to do it keep certain crucial details away from the eyes of the people.
"There was a person killed and there was general violence in Charlotteville at the Unite the Right Rally" (maybe they put it in that order maybe in another but its no statement that they are connected or in chronological order, i doubt you will see them outright claiming that the violence is a result of the car crash unless they directly lied what they would try to avoid generally unless they feel they can get away with it)
I stopped trusting the media years ago when they just outright made up stuff about a group i kept a eye on for a while before they started their smear campaigns against them, as it was a relatively small group with a specific goal not really of interest to most people they didnt really have much support. From there i kept noticing the simplicity of how the media can manipulate things quiet easily to fit whatever story they wish to make out of something. Kind of a more advance and more sinister version of when newspapers have this bombastic title and when you read the article itself its nothing like its title, except they dont show you the article just the title pretty much.
4640275
People will dress it up in more complicated terms, but the fundamental divide between South and North ultimately was Slavery. Slavery is why the South stayed Agrarian while the North industrialized. Slavery is why we have the Electoral College.
It may be simplistic, but it is true.
4640251
You really don't understand this from someone else's perspective. You know the problem a lot of people have these days isn't so much the lack of knowledge of history (which I know there's a lot of people tossing around different ideas of what it was for), but this sanctimonious attitude. Not that you bring up a part of history nobody really wants to deal with (and we've pretty much rectified), but you're essentially on a moral crusade at this point. I see this as well on some pretty Left-leaning sites and talking points about the immorality of keeping statues, monuments, and plaques up, even going so far as to demonize modern Southern people for keeping them up and destroying our property coming down here.
It's not you as a person, but your narcissistic moral supremacy attitude, practically calling everyone a racist or a moral inferior that doesn't agree with your opinions, and this destruction of our history is why a lot of people, including me, HATE others like you. This is the cancer I keep seeing in Left-wing politics these days with emotion over reason. I'm trying not dislike you, but this attitude is what makes a lot of people angry.
4640097
I will reread it to make sure I was not hasty in my actions .
4640874
See, there's several statements there I would take odds with:
1. "Pretty much rectified" -> No, not at all, which is why racism is still a huge thing and we just had the KKK marching a week ago yelling 'Jews will not replace us', as well as the horrific poverty that exists in huge segments of the African-American community due to explicitly discriminatory policies that still existed within living memory for plenty of people.
2. "immorality of keeping statues, monuments, and plaques up" -> When it is, to many, many people, a symbol of the celebration of slavery and racism, that can trump the 'I am proud of my heritage' argument. Furthermore, I'd go on and say celebrating war in general is a bad idea because like...it is good for absolutely nothing. The only 'good' war has always been 'Stopping someone worse' as in, say, stopping the Nazis in WW2.
3. "practically calling everyone a racist or a moral inferior that doesn't agree with your opinions" -> I haven't called anyone a racist. I've said the statues & memorials are racist and while many people may not see that, that is a problem of ignorance, not necessarily racism.
4. "This is the cancer I keep seeing in Left-wing politics these days with emotion over reason" -> And what is the 'reason' on this side? I don't want said statues destroyed. I want them relocated to museums and other locations where they can exist in the context of history rather than of public honor. There may have been honorable individuals fighting for the Confederacy, but there is nothing honorable about the Confederacy itself. It was on the flat out wrong side of history, and should not be venerated or celebrated, just as Mao, Tojo, or Stalin should not be venerated or celebrated. And those who were honorable fighting for the Confederacy stained their honor by fighting to keep other people in bondage. They can talk about wanting 'reconciliation' all they want - but that stain remains.
4641769
There's a lot to unpack there and underlying ideas and assumptions I'm pretty sure I can fairly accurate guesses at. Let me try to deconstruct it in my long rambling ways.
The only reason why we have a "huge thing" with racism now is because modern people, especially the Millennial\Z generation, are programmed to focus exclusively on race and be forced to bring up racial problems, when we didn't have this problem before. If you ask someone who's 35-40 now, black or white, they'll say there wasn't a real race issue back in the late 80's to 90's and up to the early 2000's. It was relatively peaceful between the races. You were expected to treat everyone as equals regardless of race. We now have this new engineered paradigm where we're supposed to handle black or "colored" people with kid gloves, white people are supposed to be ashamed of ourselves, and we need to view everyone through a racial lens. That doesn't make racism go away, that brings racism back. (The only thing I hate about black people was the one church I went to when I was a teen.
Very loving and welcoming people, but holy hell did it take forever. Never again. Southern baptists here usually have 30 minutes of singing, 30 minutes preaching, then everyone go home. That one black church I went to downtown was 3 hours of singing, like it was a concert, on a Sunday and I had to leave because I was bored as hell and had to get to work.)
The KKK has been having marches since the late 1800's, but they have lost so much political power since the early 20th century because everyone knows they're evil and should be roundly mocked. It's not against the 1st Amendment that they should have their march and chant their stuff, and that's great because it gives right to people to see how stupid they are.
I wouldn't mind even giving platforms to Holocaust deniers and let people savagely tear apart their ideas on the same platform too in a response. That's how debates work and convince people of good ideas. Free speech is and should be an absolute, not having asterisks* and blasphemy laws attached. I'd even say white people should be allowed to say Nigger if that insult is in the right context. (Not directed at people but in quotations from other sources.)
The thing you need to focus on there is WHY are they coming back into fashion with more people now? I believe this video here will help explain why. Here's a hint: It has something to do with the last quarter of the video showing where people in public events and even Senators are practically cheering about the white race becoming minorities in their own countries or going extinct.
This one was laughable.
Or is it because many African-Americans (hate that word, just say Blacks) break rules on how to be economically successful, long term:
Also, what you use is a common idea in trying to support the White Privilege hypothesis, which is more racial hatred against White people by painting all whites as having more Rights or privileges in society than blacks do. It's exactly the same as what modern Feminists use to describe the Patriarchy: An invisible and undefined force keeping certain people oppressed we can't actually prove, with only the most sophistic and emotional arguments, but know it is there. It's a boogeyman to keep ideas of Black Oppression alive.
It is about perspective. You may see it as celebration of racism and slavery, but I don't. We can agree to disagree here, because it's a very cultural thing. People here from what I gather don't have a problem with it and don't care. Some black folk even wear it as a sign of their own heritage or a part of their national identity as some white people do too.
All I'll say is, don't come down here and expect people to like it when a bunch of yuppies from out of town or radical Leftist college students start tearing down our property because they feel like they're trying to fix historical injustices. Cannot guarantee that somebody will do another Islamic "Truck of Peace" moment when that happens. >.>
All wars are subjective and there is no "good war", only wars that have a purpose or don't have a purpose. Even WW2 was a mistake in many regards that could have avoided the loss of many lives. The Nazi's weren't the ultimate evil in the world and still isn't. Today, that honor still goes towards Communism and their Socialist allies. No other system, outside of Islam, has killed more people.
You're correct about not calling anyone a racist. However, like I said before, it's about perspective and I believe your problem is also of ignorance with this kind of history scrubbing morality and trying to remove them because of some outrage. I acknowledge, respect, and don't want to forget the history that we had, but I do want to look to and move forward.
Again, perspectives.
Was this really an honor? Or remembering sacrifices and the history of our ancestors?
americanyawp.com/text/wp-content/uploads/antietam.jpg
I think you're under the impression that people honor and revere slavery and racism of the past or the Confederacy, especially here in the South, not the people that died in the bloodiest war we've ever been in. Practically spitting on these people, trying to shame the South for its past and calling many people ignorant for it. Read your paragraph back. You're comparing people like General Robert E. Lee or Nathan Bedford Forrest to Mao Zedong or Joseph Stalin... This is wrong on so many levels, you have a child's idea of history or culture.
Since you won't understand, I will say this. I won't apologize or feel ashamed of the Civil War, the Confederacy, or for the atrocities that happened in it. It is a part of the past and a part of who we are as a nation. Yes, we enslaved black people, we enslaved the Chinese, we spat and kicked the red-headed Irish that came over. That was the past. This is now. I and many others want to bury the past, but not destroy it, even with the new racial tensions. I want to move forward and keep these reminders of our past, from the sacrifices, the good, and the bad up for people to see. I'm an Egalitarian and I don't want race riots or ideological terrorism or warfare that happened in Charlottesville. I see identity politics fueled racism coming back in force that has been perpetuated by ideas like White Privilege and responded with this backlash. THAT is the real enemy here, not statues or monuments.
4642290
I had a classmate called 'Nigger' back before the internet-Millennial era was a thing. Racism didn't disappear then come back. It just wasn't as out in the open.
Well, let's see. Explicit segregation pre-Civil Rights era, voter suppression, etc, etc, etc, hence 'Living Memory'.
Now? Funding schools via local property taxes. Redlining for giving out home loans - overtly illegal only in the 70s but still often occurring under the table. '3 strikes' sentencing laws. The new voter ID laws - North Carolina & Texas both had theirs cut down in the courts for being discriminatory.
It's hardly disappeared. Only gotten better optics.
"Hi, stop being poor" is kind of terrible advice.
Be sure to tell the Mayor of New Orleans he's a Northern Yuppie, and all that. I'm sure Mitch Landrieu is a carpetbagger.
Sacrifices for what? Oh yes, upholding slavery.
In that none of them should be celebrated? Yes. Because they all fought for causes that were abominable.
4642312 4642290 Sorry, but could you please take the conversation to a PM b/c you're no longer actually discussing the content, only the context, of my blog post now :P
4642312
Anecdotal evidence or cherry picking that someone called your classmate a dirty word isn't proof of widespread hatred and racism. It just shows the other person was an asshole and went for the cheap shot. I was an autistic child who was bullied a lot throughout Middle School by a lot of black people from my area. I don't use those anecdotes as justification for racism against black people as an adult today.
.....You're confusing pre-1960's America with 2017. I mean CURRENT DAY! Not, "proof within the distant past before I was born". Do you have a concept that you can't time travel and you can't actually fix the past? I mean, you're REALLY digging for the Oppression points now since you're implying black people as a whole are still suffering from segregation and slavery. You remind me of that MSNBC host, Melissa Harris-Perry, telling off someone else because the term "Hard Work" is "Offensive to slaves" and she keeps a picture of slaves picking a cotton field above her desk.
Funding schools via local property taxes - Then isn't that a failure of the local laws and the schools themselves that's the only method (that you're implying) that schools get funded from? (I know of a half dozen ways they get some helpful funding, some of which is helped out by the parents.) Wouldn't the alternative be Charter or Private schools, alternative sources of income, or directly paying for certain things ourselves? BTW, the "WE NEED MORE FUNDING!" argument doesn't work. I think the big issue is the bureaucracy, the teachers unions, and tight fisted control of school admins. Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook donated 10's of millions to a school district and it didn't improve jack. All the money was sucked up by the bureaucracy and administration with it NOT going to better teachers, raises, school equipment, or improving the lives of the children.
Redlining for giving out home loans - overtly illegal only in the 70s but still often occurring under the table.: Using blacks in this way was also the reason why there was the Crash of 2008. They knew it because black and poorer people didn't make as much money to pay for houses and used vulnerable clients to facilitate it. This is a problem with Corporatism, Wall Street, and the Banking industry, and it affects everybody, not just black people. I would vote for Trump again if he promised to wrangle in corporations and the financial industry.
'3 strikes' sentencing laws. - Totally agree these should be banned. Not because it overly affects black people, but because it unfairly sentences everybody to stiff penalties if they make a mistake, even with minor crimes. (I've seen people get 20 years for having a joint on them because of these... What a joke.)
The new voter ID laws: Here's ALL you need to get a voter or Citizen ID card. Everything you can to identify yourself such as birth certificate, social security number, green card, etc, and roughly $40 to a certain government building. (I've checked in my state and Texas.) Then you can get your new ID card. There's no reason NOT to get one, especially when Social Security cards have terrible security. The problem I think comes from Leftists trying to approve of mass migrants from Mexico (ala, EU migrant crisis way) and the racist idea that black or spanish people can't do the work necessary to get an ID card. "Discriminatory" my ass.
The main problem here that I see is that a certain side of politics wants to set the standards so low and ignore the problems behind the scenes, that they use a bigotry of low expectations to justify certain things.
More like, "Please work hard so you won't live in a ghetto full of thugs, drugs, crime, and other kids influencing yours that fatherless and total rebellion with no discipline is a way of life!" Even a cheap house or apartment complex on a better part of town is much better than living in squaller or roach infested government housing. (I've had friends that lived in both.) And since I can almost guarantee your thoughts are coming from a Social Justice angle when I said "Don't live in poverty", you were probably thinking in a racist way that black people and black families are incapable of pulling themselves out of crime ridden areas for the betterment of their lives and children. The United States doesn't have a caste system. Anybody can move up and down the economic ladder depending on their choices and will.
Lets see... A Democrat who ordered the remove of 4 statues, mostly behind closed doors without the public's approval, with one immediately removed very early on a Monday morning with a security detail with no notice.
How about you go fuck yourself now with crying over the poor black people with the words smallest violin and ignore the millions that died in a senseless war.
This just shows you're just being a smug cunt at this point and never listened to my ideas, only regurgitating your own political biases. I was thinking you were on a track to being a Social Justice Warrior, but I'm pretty sure you're in the right group of political assholes now.
4642684
Johnny, last warning, take the conversation into PM please. You are free to talk, but you're not even talking about the blog anymore.
4642591
Apologies! I'll bow out then :)
From my perspective, a lot of this blog seems a tad nit-picky, and a few pieces seemed somewhat inaccurate, but there IS one thing it helped me realize:
The removal of the statue isn't itself part of the problem, it's merely a symptom of a far more pervasive issue: willful ignorance and erasure of, as you put it, "memory".
Yes, I can certainly see some people reacting negatively to that subject, but "not thinking about it" is NOT the way to deal with your own negative reactions. Rather, (assuming such distate is the case for a given subject), you should try to keep it FRESH in the collective consciousness, but as a BAD example, so that the future knows not to make the same mistakes as the past.
THIS is what I believe Trump was lamenting, and for good reason. It's not like this is a NEW issue by any means!