Afterthoughts: Hard to Say Anything · 4:17pm Jun 13th, 2017
art by imDRUNKonTEA
Please forgive me a moment of hypocrisy. I talk a lot about being civil even to those who you disagree strongly with, or whose behavior or attitude you find lacking in character. And most times, I strive to live up to that myself.
Even, for example, in the many online conversations asking about whether gay and lesbian relationships should be depicted in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Inevitably, those who are intolerant of homosexuality insist that they are not being homophobic but rather just understand that romantic relationships have no place in the show. Before I begin my Afterthoughts on “Hard to Say Anything”, please allow me to must uncivilly tell them: “Suck it!”
“Hard to Say Anything” centers around romance and in particular the romantic feelings that Big Macintosh has discovered for Sugar Belle. Feelings that, thankfully, are reciprocated.
As many have pointed out, Big Macintosh is one of the most heavily shipped minor characters in the show. (I personally rather liked the “FlutterMac” ship, but that was a first-season ship that had no in-show foundation but grew entirely out of “they would be cute together”.) The prospective romantic relationships that Big Mac has been given in the show up to now have both suffered severe issues that it would be difficult or outright inappropriate for the show to address.
Realistically, Big Macintosh and Marble Pie are so distantly related (if at all) that there shouldn’t be any problem with them falling in love. But the fact that they met as part of a family gathering taints the relationship with shades of incest that it would never be able to fully be rid of. The other potential relationship was directly addressed in “Hard to Say Anything”: the one with Cheerilee. While the show has since given indications that the two are at least good friends now, the writers were wise to decide against a deeper relationship. Having a romance grow out of a forced, non-consensual situation would send all manner of problematic messages to the younger viewers.
Big Mac has very appropriately forgiven but not forgotten that, and he is apprehensive regarding the CMC’s offer to help because of it. It is good that the writers addressed this, and the CMC win Big Macintosh over with a resolute promise that they learned their lesson.
Unfortunately for Big Mac, they have an all new lesson to learn. But this one really isn’t their fault...
art by Joakaha
Do you know where else you can get all manner of problematic messages about romance? Fairy tales and other children’s stories about romance. (And if you think some of the older Disney tales can be questionable, you should see the original, non-sanitized versions of those stories.)
With “Forever Filly”, we just had an episode that focused on how the CMC are growing up. But they are still children, and still possess a non-matured view of the world. In my Afterthoughts for “Parental Glideance”, I touched on the way parents mold their childrens’ mindset. We see a similar theme here. As is paralleled in most un-matured beliefs, CMC’s ideas of romance come from the stories that parents feed their children about romance.
In fact, adults are prone to the same fault. A steady, unquestioned stream of information from bad sources can lead to assaulting a basement-less pizza shop with an assault rifle or other really dumb decisions. Garbage in, garbage out.
In this episode, it is Big Macintosh who makes highly dubious choices. And frankly, this is not an unfamiliar character trait for him. In “Hard to Say Anything”, Big Macintosh should have been the voice of reason, maturity and “Eynope!” right from the get-go. But he was too blinded by his feelings (both his romantic ones for Sugar Belle and his frustration at constantly being upstaged) that he ignored the little pony in his head that had to have been shouting at him.
art by AssasinMonkey
The storybook-born ideas of romantic gestures, when put into practice, ranged from criminal to cringe-worthy. I for one applaud the writers for being willing to take on the problem that the tales of romance normally targeted at members of the show’s younger audience are really not full of the best lessons.
Big Macintosh is the one who states it clearly: Sugar Belle isn’t a fairy tale princess; she is a real person. Fairy tale tropes don’t apply.
The fact that Big Mac realizes this, sees Sugar Belle as the mare she really is, and strives to please her (rather than a fantasy concept of her) is what makes him the stallion she should give a second chance.
art by TheNornOnTheGo
Putting aside the core lesson, this episode was a lot of fun (when it wasn’t making me cring). The CMC were regularly adorable, and I have no doubt that the tidbits section of this Afterthoughts will be full of quotes from them. The episode also pushed Big Mac beyond his normal two-word vocabulary, and it has always been fun to hear the normally laconic pony express himself more.
Sugar Belle was beautiful and had some very… mature… expressions. I really love the design and voice that they have given to that pony, and I hope this development means we will get to see (and hear) more of her in future episodes. This was really a very good episode for showing off her character. Before “Hard to Say Anything”, I wasn’t interested in getting to know her character more. Now I am.
The romantic rival, Feather Bangs, was so overly stereotypical that he too induced laughs. But better yet, even though he was definitely rude on several occasions through the episode, he was shown in the end to not really be a bad pony. It would have been easy for the show to make him an irredeemable jerk. But instead, they decided to give him some surprising character. For all his “daydreamy-ness” (at least in the eyes of some mares), he was acutely shy when it came to real conversations and genuine interaction with the opposite sex. A social difficulty that many people struggle with. He, too, found it “Hard to Say Anything”.
art by TheCuriousFool
Apple Treats:
“We can’t talk about costumes at a time like this!” “Time like what?”
I loved the CMC all having different theories in the beginning. Notably, I’ve watched the episode several times and I’ve never been able to make out their individual assertions. (Save, of course, for the absurd ending of Apple Bloom’s “broccoli thing”.)
I loved Shimmering Spectacles.
Apples make the best pirates.
Nice Charlie’s Angels reference.
Not the first time MLP has done this.
“Avast! Our ship be leaving port!” Seriously, I would have enjoyed a whole episode of Apple Bloom being piratey.
“Quick, act like apples!” Funniest laugh-out-loud line in the episode. And Sweetie Belle’s reaction was perfect.
“I shouldn’t have taken the binoculars. I don’t know anypony here.”
“ummm… how many spies do you know?” Sweetie Belle was great this episode!
Those eyes!
One of my favorite moments was one that many people didn’t get to see because the copy of the episode most reactors seem to use has a glitch right at that moment. I loved Big Macintosh’s reaction to Apple Bloom’s de-masking.
“Do you. Have a crush. On Sugar Belle?” Sibling dynamics, love ‘em.
“Well, I was younger on the way here!” Ah, technical honesty. This exchange was very funny. I loved Scootaloo’s expressions!
“Seriously? That line worked?” Loved Scootaloo’s indignation.
Amusingly, Feather Bangs was not only making the hearts of his fangirl trio go pitter-pat, but also Sweetie Belle’s. She never strayed off-mission, and remained loyal to Big Mac, but throughout the episode, you could see her falling for his romantic schmaltz.
“That smooth-talkin' pony stole our rescue! And it totally would've worked!” Disturbingly, it seems it would have. Sugar Belle played the damsel in distress surprisingly well.
Why did Sugar Belle not seem to notice how Feather Bangs was constantly interrupting and shoving aside Big Mac? Does looking at his perfect bangs cause brief memory loss? Should his cutie mark be a certain little red light?
Actually, considering the case of the deeply cringe-inducing, non-consensual kiss attempt, I think this would be best for everypony involved.
“Hey! That's our metaphorical sunset they're riding off into!” Wow, Sweetie Belle was fun this episode.
“When he speaks, I pretend he’s talking to me.” That’s… just sad. 
“And when the heifer's milked and fed, and the pigs are in the sty…” I nominate this for the Worst Line of a Love Song award. Not only are the mental images of cows and pigs not remotely romantic, but the line insists that she would be necessarily giving up her lifestyle for his… which falls somewhere between self-centered and sexist.
Feather Bangs has quite the enjoyable voice. I was embarrassingly enjoying that first song he tried.
On the other hoof: “My love is burning hot like a cheese fondue!” um, ouch.
Sugar Belle’s increasing discomfort, first towards Feather Bangs and then both of them was very well done. I love how she put her hoof down and kicked them both out.
I was amused that Scootaloo went with playing Shimmering Spectacles, complete with Sweetie Belle’s byline.
“That's the whole town. It's just the one street.”
In fact, that whole scene was fun, from Sugar Belle’s silent annoyance, to her recognizing Scootaloo from the saddle-napping, to Scootaloo’s “The cupcake has landed!” followed by a dramatic roll (while Sweetie Belle just rolled her eyes).
High marks to Apple Bloom and the other CMCs for stepping in at the end, explaining the situation to Sugar Belle, and taking responsibility for the hijinks. They were willing to take the heat and own up to their mistakes, and that diffused a bomb that could have derailed the budding romance.
art by FluffyXai
It seems I must attempt to re-watch this episode sometime when I'm not drop-dead tired...
It is a good lesson, though it feels a little awkward when one remembers Cadence and Shining Armor, who were introduced in a way very heavy on the fairy tale tropes.
As for the worst love song lines ever, no argument here, though I think some of it can be blamed on Mac not having the best imagination in the world. Just look at what happened when he tried to improvise lyrics.
I never thought I'd hear Kkat say, "Suck it." This made my day!
No, you suck it.
... Given the Apple family bakes a lot anyway, I don't really agree with you here. Sugar Belle's own apparent glee at receiving the apples plus excitement at using them in baking to me seems like she wouldn't be giving up anything; her lifestyle pretty well coincides with some of the Apple family work anyways The line itself could thus possibly be interpreted as "When the day's work is done".
Yeah, the moral of this episode was a good one. This is one of the episodes I enjoyed a lot despite the cringe.
And let me tell you, I really hate cringe
4570079
I dunno. Considering some of the lines she wrote for Littlepip...
I felt very Quibble Pants while watching the episode. The little pony in the back of my head was all "Oh really, the CMC are going to help Big Mac." and "Oh boy, here comes the bad idea train, woo woo." and "How far away is this village? It took The Mane 6 like a day by train to get there, and yet Big Mac can walk there... AND BACK... in 1 day?"
But that didn't stop me from liking the episode. The good parts were really good. And it was pretty fun seeing jokes from the first part of the episode show up at the end. It was good stuff.
But seriously, we're going to end the episode with the CMC helping Feather Bangs hook up with 1 to 3 mares? Oh my. Or as Nostalgia Critic would say...
See, I'm still on the Fleet(wood) Mac ship...
It's also my headcanon of where Fleetsy got that awful speech impediment.
Seriously, who would run that kind of thing out of a pizza shop?
Also, Beiber-pony may be better than actual Bieber.
Ehm, suck what, exactly? There is an official romance episode in MLP?
As for the episode, I agree, it's full of up/downs, especially on the first sight.
I think it's the opposite of "Solid" (if it's a right term) episode.
You know, now that I read this line (instead of just listening to... over and over...) I can't help but notice how incorrect it is and Big Mac must have been really struggling for rhyme. Heifer is what we call a young female cattle, before she has a calf of her own, meaning she can't possibly have milk as cow begins producing milk after she goes through her first pregnancy.
(... Know all that because I decided to give speaking roles to "teenage" brahmin girl(s) in a chapter of my FoE story, had to look up how young female cows are called
)
And I seriously doubt that those who like FoE and follow you, have any rights to call themselves "homophobe".
Good stuff!
I actually feel rather funny about the sheer amount of butthurt this episode caused. Lots of people ( some of which I even respect and not going to point fingers on them) write that this episode bad and suck solely on the ground that it does not ship Mac with Cheerilee. Lots of crying about how 'unrealistic' that Mac ended up falling for Sugar Belle who lives in another town instead of falling for, again, Cheerilee and so on. No, really, it's very fascinating.
4570347
The Cheerilee incident was effectively drug induced mind control, and it's frightening how so many people can't tell the difference between that and legitimate attraction.
Again gotta agree... also kind of agree on the "Keep Romance Out" in a way.. at the least keep it far, far away from the mane 6. (Romance in general, if they did, I would be so damn for canon Rarijack) But, the occasional bit with secondary characters like this? BRING IT ON! This has got to be the best 'romance' focused episdoe the show has done. Mostly for all the stuff you pointed out, how well it was treated. Just really well done ep that was simply amazing. And yeah Beiber pone had a scarily catchy song.
And next up..... ohhhhh boy, that's going to be one heck of a follow up.
4570177Yeah just how HARD he had to struggle and reach for rhymes was so damn facepalmingly funny.
4570075 So? It's still a magical fantasy land, stuff like that is bound to happen, and they've been made clear to be way more then that.
4570461
Lots of people build their headcanons around idea that they become closer after Love Poison incident and after some time develop genuine feelings. It's a really widespread headcanon bit.
And then show writer drop this bomb on their laps.
4570098
that's not very nice. Mind Kkat started this, but still...
Ehh... I'm not sure on that one Kkat, two gay micro horses would be a decidedly blatant political statement that, well, the status quo of the normy and filthy casual horses, namely a mare and a stallion, simply isn't. One can quibble over the matter as one desires, but the fact remains, its such a volatile and polarized issue that there's no real way to do it. They probably pushed it a little with justin bieber mctool and his dumb hair and his herd of incredibly easy to please and low standard dummiess
no arguement
not according to certain web sites
And if the reverse were the case, Big Mac would be be expected to give up his as a romantic gesture.
4570626 I ain't nice.
4570632
again, she started it, but really, i'm sure from this point forward you two will of course deal with this matter like the reasonable rational adults you are
4570626
I'd say that the perception of the mare & stallion combination being "normal" and the other, by necessity, abnormal, is the political perception. And the equal portrayal of both homo- and hetreo- sexual romances is the one that refuses to bow to political pressure and simply shows a natural and healthy portrayal of romantic relationships.
Depicting only one biases children into thinking there is something wrong with the other, and having a show that only shows gay relationships as healthy would be no more or less prejudicial than one that only depicts heterosexual ones that way.
However, this discussion really ignores what I actually said, and is a diversion from the point that the blog was making. The "suck it" wasn't targeted at homophobes in general. It was targeted specifically at people who try to make the argument that MLP is no place for depictions of romantic relationships. An argument that this episode shreds to itty, bitty pieces in a bright, cheerful, pastel-pony orgy of gore.
I...
am not touching that. Eynope.
4570174
um... fair question. I'm sure that regardless of gender we all have bits of anatomy that are suckable.
Isn't that a lot like saying "I can't be racist because I have a black friend"?
4570125
I was so right there with you.
4570679
Eh... not.. really
Full disclosure, I don't know much on this issue, mostly cause I really don't care, but I've never exactly been keen on many gays need for incessant universal validation. Not much else to say on the matter.
And oh. It seemed like you were taking that route. My bad.
Yep... never actually looked em up, but knowing they exist is bad enough
Or better yet, avail yourself to the human in equestria forum, where you'll not only gain the oh so not needed knowledge of equine anatomy, but gain all new friends in the form of federal agents as your ip is put on one of their ever growing watch lists.
4570679
It should be of note that other ethnic groups can, and in fact are encouraged, to join national socialist and klan groups as honorary aryans.
You didn't even mention that the three swooning fanfilliess were the pony versions of the three girls from Disney's original Beauty and the Beast. However I am very much in agreement, CMC had so many good lines in this one.
4570650 ...no.
https://i.imgflip.com/1quwq5.jpg
4570679
It was still a good episode even if the Quibble Pants in my head was going a bit ballistic. Then again, now I'm wondering if Mac is leaving the major harvesting to AJ if he's off having to deliver apples to far off towns that don't have any name beside "Our Town". Ah, see, QP is doing it again.
This whole episode was Shipping Fuel. If the episode is going to leave all this Shipping Material just laying around, by Celestia I'm going to use it. All aboard! ⛴
4570834
YES!!!!
SO GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO SAW THAT!!!!!
Not sure if it was mentioned yet or touched on but I believe that the theories of Sweetie bell and Scootaloo about Mac's "shifty" behaviour was that he was training for a marathon if i remember correctly.
Technically I feel that ship sailed when ever the show shows the relationship between Mrs. and Mr. Cake. I also find it a little contradictory of them when parents probably don't hide those romantic interactions from their kids when showing affection for their significant other.
Edit: While I do enjoy this episode, I'm not so sure about the CMC trying this again. Seeing as what happened last time when they tried to intervene on Big Macintosh's behalf, I sort of cringed at them trying to help him out with his relationship with Sugar Belle.
A wild guess - you wrote this review in a hurry? Dunno why but it doesn't have the usual flow something you write has. Like someone else did it.