My Thoughts On Honest Apple · 3:15pm May 16th, 2017
This obviously will contain some spoilers. If you haven't seen the new episodes released early because of the Canadian broadcast schedule, do not read this blog post. With that said, let's get into things.
Well, here we go again. Another Applejack episode that everyone in the fandom is complaining about because Applejack actually has a character flaw. Heaven forbid, right? How dare they add interest and dimension to a character? This is a G rated show!
I'm just going to say that, despite the opinions of most everyone else, I LOVED this episode.
I know everyone is whining that the characters 'were mean-spirited' or 'regressing to act like their season two selves'. But you know what? I am glad that in some sense they did. And here's why.
First of all, no one in the episode was mean-spirited. Applejack was just trying to give an honest and straightforward opinion about something without knowing how it would effect the characters around her. She was put in a situation where she was a judge of something she really didn't understand. So there was an obvious learning curve she had adjust to. And she did it better than probably a lot of other characters would have done if placed in a similar situation.
Second, I didn't see any of the actions Applejack took in this episode as being a regression of her character. I saw this as introducing a much needed character flaw for Applejack that actually added a lot of interest to the story.
Why was the season seven episode with Fluttershy making the animal sanctuary a tad boring (in a sense)? Because the writers don't dare to give 'little cute Fluttershy' any kind of character flaw or challenges. Hence, they take away any potential conflict that could happen to her in an episode (unless it is from an external force).
There are a few exceptions to this when it comes to Fluttershy episodes and they are all usually when Fluttershy is given some kind of internal conflict or quirk that is vastly different from the characters around her. And that is part of what makes those episodes so memorable.
Character flaws just make stories INTERESTING. This is why I want to see MORE character flaws.
It's too bad the writers can't make character flaws highlighted in an episode because they know everyone in the brony community will complain about it.
Characters don't have to get along all of the time. Heck, look at shows like The Angry Beavers or Ed, Edd n Eddy. The characters in those shows barely got along. Yet their character flaws made each of the episodes they appeared in very interesting to watch.
I'm just frustrated that the writers get held back on a lot of things they want to do in the show because the audience complains about 'character development' when character flaws are part of what makes a show (especially a cartoon) entertaining.
Applejack had flaws in this episode. She did some things that weren't the best decisions to make. But when everything was said and done, she owned up to her mistakes and learned a lesson about dialing back her brutal honestly in certain situations. And you know what? That was a BELIEVABLE conflict for Applejack to have!
It didn't regress her character. I would say it actually helped to move it forward and give her a new perspective on things. When you look at episode like Viva Las Pegasus, you can really see Applejack's brutal honesty side come to the surface. In fact, in that episode her honest feelings about the Flim Flam Brothers almost caused her to fail at her map mission. The only reason she bounced back from that scenario was because certain events in the episode kind of forced her to try to look at things from their perspective. We see this personality trait come full circle and get resolved in Honest Apple which is a GREAT follow-up episode to how Applejack showed that part of her personality in Viva Las Pegasus.
Applejack episodes always get a lot of flack because people in the fandom complain that she doesn't have any character flaws. Now we have an episode where Applejack has character flaws and everyone is literally loosing their shit. What the heck fandom?
But I digress. My rant is over. I go.
never have i seen such true and and good points then others who make the dumbest rant and excuses. thank you lyra for making an actuall rant
its just im getting sick of people making same type of rants they act so childish and make sometimes shitty excuses thats why 
4534785 I am glad that you could agree with many of the things I brought up in the post. Thank you for taking the time to read it. :)
Well I go under the assumption that episode opinions are subjective and can't be right or wrong. You can have objective complaints regarding some structural parts but all other parts are simply too subjective to be true for more than person making the claim. So it is possible for an episode to be bad due to technicality and still be good because of say humor or characters but at same time you can have episode that is textbook example of perfection and end up boring some people.
I personally did have some problems with this episode. I am not going to argue if AJ and Rarity were or were not being out of character. Well ok I'll say they were NOT out of character they acted believably and according to the plot. However that does not mean I have to like the way they acted. AJ well I did not mind her that much. Yeah she got carried away but that is just it. She got carried away, we all do that. It just wasn't terrible interesting to me.
Rarity on the other hand I feel was obviously making a mistake and the episode was very clear to point it out in the first five minutes with AJ asking several times "what" and even Pinkie being the voice of reason and saying that it doesn't make sense. Granted Rarity DOES have a reason that isn't unreasonable if we don't take into the account so many times when AJ has shown that she just does not understand fashion.
Now the episode was not really bad anyway unless you focus your burning "hate" on the way Rarity and AJ acted in few specific instances of the episode. It still had lots of humor, returning support characters were great and new characters were also interesting.
The more glaring problem (for me)? Is that this pretty much same episode structurally like most of the season 7 episode. Oblivious pony is doing oblivious things out of goodness and screwing up while the other pony is not saying anything. Also again Rarijack episode, they could really use partnering with someone else. Oh and I feel it was a cop-out to make all contestants winners. Made having the contest in first place pointless.
Regarding AJ it isn't problem for fandom that she doesn't have character flaws. It is that she randomly spawns character flaws for one episode. Such as developing anxiety in Manehatten when she was with Rarity helping Coco, despite that she lived in Manehatten and had visited before (But since we do not see that episode from AJ perspective we can't know what she was thinking). Or when she developed over-protection for Apple Bloom (which she actually expressed in Zecora's episode but fans forgot that). Or her being just ignorant of her own actions in the Spa with Rarity episode despite she fixing same issue in spa (ok I do have issue with them making AJ dumb to prove a point when she is most reasonable).
4534838 I personally had no problem with all three ponies winning the fashion contest because I honestly thought that the clothing lines each one created was good. If there was a pony out of the three that had a crappy fashion line, I would have been more inclined to agree. But all of the clothes they created were good, so they all deserved to win.
I haven't noticed that pattern in season seven, Most of the episodes have been focused on family relationships. So I see the connected theme of dealing with family issues. But that's about it.
Applejack has expressed feeling claustrophobic in large cities before the Manehattan episode. She might have lived there as a young teen, but there is a reason she returned to the farm. It wasn't her cup of tea. Applejack has always been protective of her sister so it wasn't surprising to have an episode with her going overboard with that character trait. And Applejack wasn't ignorant of her actions in the spa pony episode (Applejack's Day Off). The point of the episode was to teach a lesson that sometimes it helps to have an outside opinion or perspective on things so you don't caught up in doing the same types of things. And it was effective at delivering this message.
I do agree that Honest Apple was a very funny episode and had a good message, I can see myself going back and watching this episode many times. It had a delivery style that really clicked for me.
4534859 But the point of the contest was to chose one. If there was an option to have more winners then why have a contest? Why not just have Rarity pick what she liked to have in her boutique? Then the judges should have judged each creator to see if they are good or not independently and not have them compete. Mind you that this is a very minor nitpick of mine and since it is at the very end it didn't even contribute to my feelings regarding the episode.
All Bottled Up - Trixie is oblivious, Glimmer is silent.
Flurry Episode - Twilight is oblivious, Flurry can't speak up.
Maud Episode - Pinkie is oblivious, Maud can't speak up.
Sweetiesode - Rarity is oblivious, Sweetie Belle can't speak up.
Dash Parents - Parents Oblivious, Dash can't speak up..
Big Mac - CMC are oblivious and Big Mac doesn't speak up.
The structure is same for the conflict with some variations. Episode obviously do differ, I am only speaking of the frame beneath the product. I could be just projecting I suppose.
I can not say I remember AJ feeling anxiety before except when she felt homesick which isn't quite same thing. The protective thing I countered myself anyway. But I will argue that she was ignorant. You can't tell me that Applejack, a pony who is the most reasonable, would continue silly rituals after she fixed the problems that made her do those silly things in the first place. While it served to hammer in the obvious moral they exaggerated too much and made her look like a bad farmer that couldn't see. Force hammering morals does have negative consequences.
But anyway the reason why I posted all of this was because I just wanted to defend people who didn't like the episode. Like I said, there is no right or wrong opinion when liking something. But that does mean that negative opinions do not have some validation behind them. Even if they seem stupid to us that doesn't mean there is no logic or basis behind their claims and we should be understanding and not just roll our eyes at them. I can say I have done this myself to my regret.
4534921 I have no problem with people who dislike things. Heck, they don't even need a reason for not liking things. Like I said before, I have a friend who hates cartoons and anime. I've tried to get him to watch a few shows and he's hated everything I have shown him. :I
But at least he tried to watch them. That counts for something. Not everyone is always going to like the same things you do. Heck, there have been people who have given up watching Friendship is Magic after the first two seasons. Which is too bad because I think the show has only gotten better over time. But to each their own.
My problem has less to do with people's opinions but more to do with the attitude behind certain decisions or critiques people make in the fandom. I have noticed that many fans kind of have a group think when it comes to certain things. For example, jumping on the bandwagon of not liking anything after season two because no one else (supposedly) likes the show anymore, either. Or hating The MLP Movie before it is even released because it is the 'cool thing to do'.
The hive mind mentality of disliking the show (or certain episodes, or the Equestria Girls films, or even the new movie coming out) is something that I have seen A LOT. If people don't want to like something and are thinking for themselves when they make that decision, I have no problem. But I do have a problem with people just deciding not to like something because it seems like everyone else around them doesn't like it either. This aspect of the fandom bothers me a great deal.
4534945 Ah well can't fight the hive mind. Human nature I am afraid. Also the strange need to hate things and remind everyone about that fact. Or just taking things too seriously. Honestly I don't get it, while I can completely understand criticism of FiM, I simply can't understand the zealot like behavior about creating a cult like teachings. Like as I call people who insist that first two seasons are Holy Grail to be Faustians. We get it, you liked the first two season better, why are you still ranting in 2017?
4534951 I actually encounter those Lauren Faust enthusiasts a lot on this site.
Most of them are following the 'trend' of hating anything after the first two seasons. I can tell that they don't have any of their own opinions on the topic because they always say the same things that channels like Two Bronies Bitch About Ponies (TBBAP) and other YouTube cartoon critics have said in their reviews.
I don't understand the cult mentality. But you are right. There will always be some aspect of every fandom that has a hive mind or collectively decides to like or dislike the same kinds of things, I can understand why it exists to a certain extent. But it is still kind of annoying. :P
4534957 I like them a lot too. I hope that we will see more of them in future episodes. :)
4535022 I guess the strange need to obey people with successful youtube accounts and the need to feel safe as being part of the herd. Besides it is easier when you don't have to think for yourself.
Actually i have no idea what is this TBBAP. For the most part I rarely watch youtube bronies, especially so called analysts.
That's quite true. But (and this is a huge "but"), pulling flaws that weren't before after a long awhile and making them go to aesop amnesia is not interesting. It may make the character so base breaking. Why do you think I don't like season 6?
That one wouldn't be a problem if it was in the early seasons. Just my guess on that one.
Lyra, those kind of shows rely on rule of funny and status quo. There won't be character development for them. Well, when Ed, Edd n Eddy had the movie, it was adverted. There were character development, but only because it was the big finale and a bit darker if you ask me. It makes a huge Cerebus Retcon to the entire series when the reason why Eddy was such a jerk appears. I'm sorry, but that statement you made it's very flawed.
4535040 Ooo I like the video you shared! It is awesome! And I love the 1890s too. XD
4535051 There are a bunch of brony analysts who are very vocal about not liking the show after season two (or in some cases, season four). TBBAP is one of many analysts who hold this opinion for whatever reason. And many people tend to copy the opinions of these YouTube cartoon analysts because it is easy to do/ they don't have to think for themselves.
4535234 I've never recalled a moment where the MLP staff pulled a character flaw out of nowhere. They have certainly emphasized flaws that the characters have in certain episodes. But they have never just 'made up characters flaws on the spot to suit an episode'.
I personally love season six. I don't understand why it gets so much hate. It was a consistently good season and had many memorable episodes, similar to seasons four and five. So I can't really get behind this opinion, But I respect that you and the other people who didn't like it for your own reasons.
It shouldn't matter what season it is to determine whether or not the show staff should give the characters flaws. In real life, even if you learn a particular lesson, that's not to say that you won't make a similar mistake later. Or you won't do something else that you ultimately have to learn a lesson from. No one is perfect. Regardless of how many times you learn things in life, it is realistic that you may make the same mistakes, put in different scenarios or brand new mistakes all together. It is all part of the burden of being a sentient creature. Ponies are sentient creatures so this rule would apply to them as well.
And I think it is fair to bring up Ed, Edd N Eddy as well as The Angry Beavers because the characters did have character development and learned lessons throughout the seasons. But for the reasons I brought up earlier, it didn't stop them from making similar mistakes or even making brand knew mistakes. This is all part of the human condition. And it is actually more believable to have characters who make bad decisions at times but learn from them than characters who learn a lesson one time and never do it again. That's not how things work in the real world. And if you are making a 'realistic' show, that isn't how characters should act in a cartoon either.
4535247 Finally found them. TBBBAP though they don't seem that popular just 14k followers. And checked the ending of their latest review of season 5 finale and they gave it an 8. Also made fun of the people that were hoping that Twilight being an alicorn would be undone and said that complainers should move on. Must say I did not expect that from the Faustians. Unless TBBBAP is different from TBBAP? Still rather obscure guys. Silverquill and IloveKimPossible have around 100k and they usually seem more optimistic from what I remember.
I don't know, I don't really watch often brony analysts anyway. Well they don't even analyses they just recap, review and guess. Think they did rename themselves to reviewers?
4535263
Hmmm, quite true.
4535272 TBBAP I believe gave up reviewing the show after season five, for a reason listed on one of their social media accounts. They felt that the show was going downhill. If you listen to their commentary on the season five episodes, you will see them get progressively more negative in their opinions about the show. That's why there isn't any commentary on the episodes in season six or seven on their channel. I don't agree with their views about the show going downhill. But they actually did some pretty decent reviews leading up to season five where they finally just couldn't take the direction of the show anymore and gave up reviewing it.
4535277 It is just something I thought about while watching this and other shows where you see a progression of characters throughout the seasons. And it just makes more sense to me that characters would make similar mistakes or new ones as a series goes on because no one is perfect.
4535278 Yeah I doubt I'll check out their videos anyway so I'll trust you on this. I rather just watch the show and enjoy it on my own and share experience with other fandom members.
4535263
Now as for the episode itself, it was finally time there was development for AJ. I haven't watched the episode yet though. As 4534838 said, flaws were randomly given to AJ, and that was a problem with her character, as well her lack of development.
Granted, in the past she did have a few good episodes, like Applebuck Season and Sisterhooves Social, and there wasn't any problem with that. I think they should have brought AJ's flaw of being brutally honest in season 1 or 2. I don't what do you think if this.
4535283 Fair enough. I personally like to watch reviews from certain channels that have positive things to say about the show such as Silver Quill or Doctor Wolf. But to each their own. :)
4535287 Applejack has always had a problem with brutal honesty. This has surfaced in a few different episodes such as Viva Las Pegasus where she was honest about not liking the Flim Flam brothers and was so sure she was right, it almost cost her having a successful map mission. In season one, her brutal honesty side surfaced during the sleepover episode where she constantly told Rarity exactly what she thought about girly things. In fact, in more than one episode where Applejack has been placed with Rarity, her brutal honesty side has been at the forefront. So this character trait didn't just come out of nowhere. It has been there since the beginning.
4535295
Oh, I see. But wait, shouldn't that flaw be addresed early like this episode? I might be wrong on that one too.
4535289 I do still check out Silverquill from time to time because I find his antics amusing. Dr.Wolf is a bit too slow speaker but I respect him.
4535298 I don't think it is necessary to bring up past events where a character had a flaw. I mean you can if you want to. But exposition often weighs down a story. So that's why, if a character's flaws have already been established, the exposition is usually left out.
4535302
Oh, got it.
4535300 A slow speaker eh? I think that is the first time I have heard that about Doctor Wolf. :P
I like the optimism that Doctor Wolf has when it comes to episodes. But I think that a lot of the time he expects the characters to always be perfect and never do anything wrong. So when there is an episode where a character makes a pretty big mistake, he usually doesn't like it. And I tend to disagree with him when it comes to that. But otherwise, I enjoy listening to his reviews.
4535306 But the charm of the ponies is that they are silly and dumb lil adorable critters that make mistakes. They are weird combination of naive childish adults. While I do sometimes dislike when they make a very obvious mistake, I wouldn't have it any other way in the end. Plus you know a conflict is needed.
4535304 Yay!
4535314 I completely agree. All stories need a conflict of some kind. Or they come off as being boring.
4535317
Yet I don't agree that they are Childish Adults, more like Adult Characters in a Young Children's show.
Plenty of stuff is exchanged, and traded to make it look more kid friendly. (Or even just ignored and not placed in, in order to keep the rating.) I know Some guys and galls that have personalities similar to Rainbow Dash and Applejack, they are a big time on the swear scale.
Twilight and Pinkie are bound to drink, one due to the existential angst of the relative stupidity of the world that surrounds her, the other because of the happy party girls life style. Fluttershy as a vet and gamewarden must have had to fix some pretty bad injuries on animals, or even had to put rabid one down when the stare doesn't work. (Though that is doubtful. Probably asks that somepony else should do it.) (Like actual game wardens.) And Rarity must have some INTERESTING reading choices.
4535375 That's an interesting way of looking at the show. I always viewed the mane six as being more adult as well, even before Lauren Faust confirmed that the characters were in their twenties.
A "character flaw" shouldn't make you outright hate the character. Ask Rainbow Dash.
4535720 I like that Rainbow Dash has so many flaws. She reminds me a lot of one of my best friends, Erika. Erika acts exactly like Rainbow Dash, so that's probably why I understand her as a character.
Having a character act perfect all of the time is boring. Because that's not how sentient beings act in real life. You can be a good person who donates money and resources to charity and does nice things for others but STILL have flaws such as being vain or self-centered or hot headed. A character who has no flaws is a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu). And they are boring.
I think back to the days of watching Hey Arnold on TV. When that one love interest of Arnold's moved to town I immediately felt bad for Helga. The new girl in town was boring and perfect. So that was probably another reason I didn't like her as much as a character. There wasn't much to feel sorry for or relate to. While on the other hand, Helga had a legitimately hard family situation where her parents never paid attention to her, often forgot her name, and mostly paid attention to her older sister who went out of her way to steal the attention for Helga at times, making things worse. You could see why Helga acted the way she did. But the new girl was bland. her personality was bland. And I think the show writers intentionally did that to make you kind of dislike her and sympathize with Helga.
I am glad that the mane six each have enough personality quirks to save them from the 'new girl in town' syndrome. Rainbow Dash is very much a tomboy and acts like it to an extreme at times. Applejack is a down-to-earth and hardworking character who can be stubborn, honest to a fault, and relentlessly stuck in her ways. Twilight is a book nerd who is neurotic at times, OCD about organization, and obsessed with research to the point where it sometimes inconveniences the people around her. Fluttershy is a timid pony who mostly likes to keep to herself and her tendency to isolate herself from other ponies around her leads to conflicts. Rarity is melodramatic, a prima dona, and basically your typically girly-girl character, with the twist of also being very funny and generous. Pinkie Pie is a hyperactive character who can get on other ponies' nerves. She is over-friendly and can sometimes try a little to hard to make friends or help mother ponies make friends. But this is balanced with her comedy and her genuine desire to want to help out the ponies around her and make them smile.
It's refreshing to see so many character flaws in a main cast of characters; especially in something like a show aimed towards girls. Because often with media aimed at a female audience, you get bland, female role model types who all kind of blend together in terms of personalities and goals. The Wink Club comes to mind when I think about a cast of female characters who have little to no distinguishing character traits. You could literally switch the lines of any of the characters and you wouldn't be able to tell.
I am glad that the MLP staff is willing to make characters that have flaws and have them learn lessons that relate to each of their personality traits. It is more realistic and it makes you more interested in the characters of the mane six because they actually have personalities.
4536227 Hurray!