What To Do With Big Mac? · 5:29am May 14th, 2017
Introduction
So, in the wake of S7 E08 "Hard to Say Anything Positive About the Future of the Show," I face the decision of what to do with Big Mac in the SWSV.
I. Cheerilee
When I started mapping out the likely futures of the MLP characters in the SWSV, I gave Big Mac what looked like (in Season 4) his likeliest romantic and marital future: namely, marrying Cheerilee. It seemed obvious to me from "Hearts and Hooves Day" that he and Cheerilee had once had feelings for one another, that for some reason they had broken off their love or friendship, and that it had been rekindled by the CMC forcing them together with the Poison Joke.
This is the more so because the CMC seem to be more or less unwitting Agents of Destiny. I don't take it as far as seeing them as Avatars of the Fates as they are in the Oversaturated World (I think Bloomie is Past, Scootaloo Present and Sweetie Belle the Future in that storyverse), but I do think that they have a habit of being right on the spot when major events occur, and sometimes helping precipitate them (for example, giving Discord the final energy he needs to break free in Return of the Elements of Harmony). So I do not find it at all unbelievable that they might have given Big Mac and Cheerilee the push they needed to remember what they once felt for each other.
The Show, and Comic Book, both seemed to support this by depicting Cheerilee as especially friendly, supportive and even flirtatious toward Big Mac. What's more, it goes with a popular trope from the days of movie Westerns -- the Hero and the Schoolmarm. So it struck me as a plausible development.
The version of their story I went with goes like this:
Cheerilee is two years older than Big Mac. They first became friends when she was 9 and he 7, after the sudden death of Cheerilee's father led to her having to assume many family responibilities far too young (her mother became a hopeless alcoholic). How this happened is described in Collateral Damage.
Big Mac and Cheerilee were friends for the next several years, but her being two years his senior was a big deal in adolescence, and so she never acted on their mutual attraction. Big Mac had to assume adult responsibities early himself when he was orphaned, and Cheerilee went off to Canterlot for secondary school and college education.
Cheerilee had two serious lovers, the last of whom took advantage of her intelligence and affection for him to get uncredited academic work, then dropped her when she was no longer useful. Cheerilee began herself to sink into alcoholism after this (it's a family genetic weakness through her mother) but snapped out of it when she woke up obviously having had sex with strangers at a party, as described in Hitting Rock Bottom.
She returned to Ponyville to take a job as elementary school teacher, the same job she has now. She discovers that Big Mac, now full-grown, is immensely-well-liked, with a lot of young mares sighing after him, even though he doesn't seem to return their interest. She is intimidated by this and decides that she shouldn't inflict her old feelings for him on her, especially as she feels guilty for first rejecting him and then making a hash of her own love life in Canterlot.
Big Mac, for his part, is intimidated by her education and responsibilities, and decides not to get hurt again: she would obviously reject anypony who was just a simple apple farmer like himself, when she's had the chance to know the classy, educated Ponies of Canterlot. So neither is willing to approach the other.
And so matters stand until "Hearts and Hooves Day."
Now, my version of what happened next would have had them slowly getting closer again, until they rekindled their love, and eventually got married, both of them realizing that they made mistakes and missed opportunities in the past but not letting this overshadow their future.
This is actually still possible even if I go with this episode. Big Mac hasn't, after all, done anything irrevocable with Sugar Belle.
But it has become less probable.
II. Marble Pie
Of course the Show had a mutual attraction spring up between Big Mac and Marble Pie in S5 E20, "Hearthbreakers." One of my problems with "Hard To Say Anything" is that it forgets that this attraction was very obviously mutual, and that Apple Bloom was there (yet later seems not to remember it, a clear sign that the Writer didn't do the research on Big Mac).
Aside from that, it's not that much of a problem. Marble lived far away, Big Mac had no particular excuse to keep coming back to the Pie Rock Farm, and both of them are horribly, painfully shy. So it could be assumed that it simply died out due to lack of opportunity. There's absolutely no reason to think that it ever went even as far as we saw things go with Big Mac and Sugar Belle.
III. Other Big Mac Love Interests
Show has also depicted some other mares with possible mutual attractions with Big Mac: Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie. Fluttershy is another very shy Pony, and she's canonically loved by Discord. Pinkie Pie definitely seeemed to be warming up to Big Mac in "Apple Pie," but soon after this she meets Cheese Sandwich. In neither case was there any clear evidence of romance. So they can both safely be assumed to have lost interest.
IV. Sugar Belle and Party Favor
However, in picking Sugar Belle as Big Mac's love interest, Writer picked a mare who actually has had another attraction hinted. Not only was Sugar Belle (along with Night Glider) a member of Party Favor's little non-conformist group (she was hosting them in her cellar) but Party Favor actually subjected himself to abuse by Starlight Glimmer to shield her. One might think that Party Favor and Sugar Belle loved one another. I certainly thought this was a plot thread Show had started.
On the other hand, it's been over two years (my chronology) or almost a year (their chronology) since The Cutie Map. Even if we assume that Party Favor and Sugar Belle fell in love with each other (debatable) there's no reason to assume that it necessarily worked out well. Perhaps they quarreled, or simply found each other incompatible for some reason.
Conclusion: The Question
So I'm stuck with the question of what future to write for Big Mac. I'm going to stick with the backstory of his youthful friendship with Cheerilee. But that doesn't mean it has to work out between them as adults.
Maybe past events have poisoned things too much between them, so they never take advantage of the opportunity the CMC originally gave them. Maybe they did step out together or even spark for a while, but they gave up on it as a bad deal.
Remember, Big Mac is shy. And Cheerilee -- while quite extroverted -- has to some extent given up on herself ever finding happiness. And these are reasons why neither of them would necessarily make the first move. And if neither does, then other situations are possible.
Marble Pie's no problem. That never went beyond a holiday flirtation. And here both of them are terribly shy.
And Show never picked up on what it started with Party Favor and Sugar Belle.
Or, I could flat out ignore the canon status of S7 E08, because it really is a terribly bad episode. But I don't like doing that.
So what do you guys think?
I think you could find Equestria from the wails of Marble Pie AND Cheerilee.
I have yet to watch the episode itself, but knowing of the premise, I had a similar reaction to Rock Solid Friendship's sudden inclusion of Starlight. That being "What? Her? Why her? You have all these options and you go with her?"
In addition to that, I have yet to hear anyone praise the episode, unlike the abovementioned.
Well, regarding your question: Do you have to decide right now? If, say, the SugarMac ship never pops up again, you could could go with him marrying Cheerilee. It's not like Our Town is any closer to Ponyville than the Pie farm.
Incidentally, the IDW comics had at least three more ships for MacIntosh: Princess Luna (who kissed him!), some mare named Sweatcream Scoops, and Fleetfoot, who started crushing on him after crashing. Concussions are great for romance, apparently.
It's akin to how we're just supposed to accept the last stupid premise: the show runners appear to have stopped caring about a little thing called plausibility.
I think the writers messed up because most CHeerieMac and MarbleMac happened because animators did it while writers were un aware of it. Once the script is done, it goes to Canada to be turned into an episode by animators at DHX. They add shipping teases like Cheerilee swooning over B in Filly vanilly or with Discord giving flowers to Celestia EVEN though McCarthy and writers didn't really wanted it. MLP is not as closely made with writers and animators working in the same studio as Steven Universe so the visual cues work independently from the storytelling perspective. If McCarthy wa animating every episode, she would probably never tease CheerieMac, MarbleMac or Dislestia in the first place.
To be honest i myself was fooled into thinking that MarbleMac will be canon, even IDW official variant cover featured MarbleMac shipping picture. We ALL were tricked by new writers and story editors never finding out about Cheeriemac and Marble mac shipping teases to adress them.
AT LEAST we have the first canon shipping on the show. I think FlutterCord might also become a thin in canon series.
I think this one may be too early to tell. It all comes down to whether they actually follow up on this relationship. It's still a long way between Ponyville and Our Town (though don't ask me how far; Equestrian space-time seems especially pliable these days.) Mac has duties at the Acres and Sugar Belle would be trying to break into a well-occupied niche if she ever tried to move her business to Ponyville. I doubt the Cakes would be able to find an opening for her, though Pinkie might encourage it. (Or she might try to sink this ship because of some critical deed Mac and Cheerilee's grandfoals perform. Ineffable are the ways of the Joybringer.)
So yeah, given the general quality of this episode, I wouldn't be surprised if it failed to have a lasting impact on the status quo, but we don't know that for sure. I think the best plan right now is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
That said, given how much of Mac and Marble's flirting could be simulated by a pair of computers sending on-signals to one another, I think Apple Bloom can be forgiven for missing the subtext. Mac was likely too smitten with Sugar Belle to correct the misconception.
You know just because they start dating does not mean they have to stay together. If you want a different character with him just have Big Mac break up with the current interest. People do that all the time.
For the love of all that is holy, please continue with CheeriMac.
4532602
Well, it's a better long-term plot. The Big Mac X Sugar Belle thing comes completely out of left field, with no long back story or deep coincidence of interests. It's on an even flimsier basis than the whole flirtation with Marble Pie.
Though, real life sometimes works like that.
4532598
Or have Sugar Belle break up with him. It strikes me as more in character to have Sugar Belle do the breaking up. Especially as Party Favor is still in town.
4532643
Either way you get the idea.
Quick note about Party Favor and Night Glider: We see them eating out at a restaurant together before the CMC interrupt their meal. Pause the episode for like one second before the meal is interrupted and it sure looks like they are giving each other "bedroom eyes."
Whatever you do with Big Mac, it'll be pretty good. Maybe all the mares that want him could get together and fight it out Spock-and-Kirk style and the survivors becomes Mrs. Big Mac Apple. Might be a bit much for MLP/Equestria, though.
it goes with a popular trope from the days of movie Westerns -- the Hero and the Schoolmarm.
This reminds me of an old comment about the early TV Westerns: "The hero shook hands with the pretty schoolmarm and kissed their horse goodbye." Of course, in this show, he could do both.
4531956
Cheerilee, quite possibly in my world, because her attraction to Big Mac is deep-founded and she's hitting an age where she's starting to fear she'll be forever alone. Marble, less so -- I don't know that there was every anything more than a mutual flirtation going on there.
It's not that either of them are triflers. It's that Mac and Marble don't really know each other that well in "Hearthbreakers," and we don't know how often if at all they saw one another afterward.
4552211
I think it was clear they SPOKE THE SAME LANGUAGE in that episode.
Also, you can hear Fleetfoot and Tealove crying out in misery, and Princess Luna having to be restrained.
4531958
Well, Maud does have one obvious point of contact with Starlight. They're both brilliant misfits. And both were in the mood to look for friends at the moment they met.
I'm most likely to continue with Cheerilee x Mac, for the reasons you mentioned. Big Mac is a secondary character and Sugar Belle essentially a tertiary character. The Show is unlikely to follow up on their romance any time soon, and Big Mac x Sugar Belle's attraction seems grounded in very little. (Though note, they were openly kissing one another, which is more than The Show has generally depicted of non-married characters).
I actually think The Show did this as a counterpoint to "Hearts and Hooves Day" and the ep was more about the growth in maturity of the CMC -- progressing from trying to force romance to trying to facilitate existing romance. The problem was that The Show ignored the ample hints in "Hearts and Hooves Day" that Cheerilee and Big Mac had once had feelings for one another, which might have been rekindled by the actions of the CMC.
I actually reference Princess Luna's attraction toward Big Mac more than once in the Shadow Wars Story Verse, even though her important attraction is toward Twlight Sparkle. Luna admires courage and honesty, and tends to like the Apples, something I mentioned as early as Nightmares Are Tragic (one of the first six stories, and the first long one, which I completed on this site). It's not accidental that she uses Big Mac as her hypothetical example of why it would be immoral to force somepony into a romantic relationship by threats to their loved ones (in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason, and why adherence to morality is even more important for the powerful than for the weak, to avoid corruption. And in my Nightmare Moon Triumphant worldline flaked off by Starlight Glimmer, Nightmare Moon winds up falling in love with Big Mac (the Night Shadow doesn't like this, but finds it easier to appease Luna with love fulfilled than risk her rebellion in emotional frustration).
In the main SWSV Big Mac sort of likes Luna, but finds her a bit terrifying. And he has much more serious emotions toward Cheerilee, and she toward Twilight Sparkle. So nothing much comes of it.
The bits with Echo, Sweetcream and Tealove weren't even remotely mutual.
4552214
Mackie and Marble are similar, yes -- maybe even Kindred Spirits. They're both shy and honorable. And they're literal kin, of sufficiently distant degree as to be an advantage rather than a problem.
That may not be enough, though.
Still, it's a much deeper connection than anything shown with him and Sugar Belle. In fact, I didn't see any connection there other than "You're nice and cute," as their mutual sentiment.
4533020
Okay, I'll buy that. Night Glider and Party Favor presumably know each other as well as Sugar Belle and Party Favor, and (unlike with Double Diamond) Night Glider doesn't have to compete with his past (and maybe not entirely past) feelings for a brilliant, charismatic, and domineering super-powerful warlock.
4552223
And in fact it could have been for Night Glider that Party Favor when into the box. As for Sugar X Mac, unless he's planning to open a branch Apple Orchard like what happened in Applelosa, or Sugar moving her bakery to Ponyville, there's going to be trouble in the future if they can't find a way to make their jobs to intersect. I assume that one day they will want to wed and bred, so yeah even if the show had him hook up with Marble latter and break up with Sugar, the same problem would come up. Money and Housing are some of the worst effects on relationships.
I just thought I'd drop this here.
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I chuckled.