• Member Since 30th Dec, 2014
  • offline last seen March 18th

Architect Ironturtle


Just a scientist who's working through the six levels of writing in her spare time. Currently attacking number four, Structure.

More Blog Posts10

  • 305 weeks
    The Big Nap

    So. It's been over a year since I've posted anything. What happened?

    At first, in a word, graduation. I made it out of college and got an actual job. The thing is, the job hunting process ended seven months ago, and I was fully moved into a new apartment four months ago. Why no updates, then?

    Read More

    4 comments · 528 views
  • 377 weeks
    The Bad Webcomic Wiki and the Overly Zealous Use of the Mary Sue Lable

    I discovered The Bad Webcomic Wiki recently, and while browsing through the reviews stumbled across a link to an article on the site about Mary Sues. After reading it, well...

    Their net is dangerously wide. Just look at this list of supposed Mary Sue tells (bolding done by me):

    Read More

    1 comments · 572 views
  • 423 weeks
    Discord's Apprentice: Complete

    Yes, you did read that correctly. Discord's Apprentice, my second story and first semi-serious one, is finished, clocking in at 47,946 words. I know some people stuck it in their 'read when complete' bookshelf, so I'm posting this blog to let them know it's done.

    Read More

    2 comments · 452 views
  • 428 weeks
    New Story: "Pajama Sam: Friendship's Not Tragic, in Fact it's Like Magic!"

    Pajama Sam must rescue his big brother Mark from the evil Queen Chrysalis with the reluctant (on his part) help of the locals while learning a valuable lesson about family.

    Come on, you know you want to read it.

    0 comments · 313 views
  • 428 weeks
    Heads Up!

    Coming soon to a story box near you (and by soon I mean as soon as the moderators approve it)!

    Pajama Sam: Friendship's Not Tragic, in Fact it's Like Magic!

    That's right, I'm going there.

    4 comments · 420 views
Jan
26th
2017

The Bad Webcomic Wiki and the Overly Zealous Use of the Mary Sue Lable · 5:23am Jan 26th, 2017

I discovered The Bad Webcomic Wiki recently, and while browsing through the reviews stumbled across a link to an article on the site about Mary Sues. After reading it, well...

Their net is dangerously wide. Just look at this list of supposed Mary Sue tells (bolding done by me):

The regular Mary-Sue has many, if not all, of these common traits

He/She...

...is the suggested protagonist of the story/arc, and often entitled with a great responsibility like being the One or having a very ambitious dream.

...has a very detailed and unique look, focusing on trivial details like eye, hair, and make-up color, facial traits, privileged body complex, etc.

...is usually considered to be more attractive by than the other characters due to such characteristics.

...has a dark past, normally involving teen traumas such as broken families, drug addiction, loneliness, suicidal tendencies, close deaths, insecurity and social awkwardness.

...easily develops a rivalry with the main antagonist over a disagreement of opinions or a dark past. If a new insertion to an old cast, he/she will likely clash with the former protagonist.

...regardless of her initial skill or age, eventually becomes the most skilled, and can master anything within a short amount of time.

...has the tendency of walking into new plots all the time, and is able to solve them alone or with very little help from others.

...always has the most noble/correct/appropriate thoughts, good intentions, and stands for the good side, which is always victorious, prettier and has the hottest chicks.

...bears resemblance or is an over-idealized portrayal of the Author. He also defends Author's stands on controversial topics.

...never permanently dies in the course of the story.

...has one or more love interests, a best friend, a protegé, and an archrival.

...puts his problems ahead of other people's problems.

...can only be ridiculed for the purpose of parody, for a short moment. He does not have permanent flaws other than being too good at everything.

...has an often-used freedom of expression (a gateway for VERY IMPORTANT OPINIONS).

In relation to that, the other characters...

...either love him dearly or hate him profoundly. There are no characters who are indifferent to him, which adds to his omnipresence.

...constantly discuss or ponder about him, often more than they do about themselves.

If after reading that you realized that protagonists in general will have at least one of these traits, and most have roughly half, then you might see the problem.

The bolded items in particular are totally normal traits for any hero to have and should not be on the list at all, either because to be a protagonist you need certain traits or because staying focused on the plot limits the interactions of secondary characters. As a result, the label of Mary Sue might be enthusiastically applied to characters who do not deserve it, something that can be quite the problem among inexperienced critics.

The list does in fact cover everything that makes a Mary Sue, but it only requires three of the sixteen bullet points to do so. They are:

1. ...always has the most noble/correct/appropriate thoughts, good intentions, and stands for the good side, which is always victorious, prettier and has the hottest chicks.

2. ...bears resemblance or is an over-idealized portrayal of the Author. He also defends Author's stands on controversial topics.

3. ...can only be ridiculed for the purpose of parody, for a short moment. He does not have permanent flaws other than being too good at everything.

In a single sentence, a Mary Sue is an idealized version of the author that is always right, always wins, and can never change or make mistakes.

Likewise, avoiding the Mary Sue is equally simple. Have your character make mistakes and then pay for them. A strong supporting lead to call the main character out on their bullshit is a good way to go about this, as long as they too make mistakes. Even if the MC eventually becomes as overpowered as Superman, as long as he stays flawed and those flaws keep coming back to bite him he will not be a Mary Sue.

If you have a differing opinion feel free to comment below.

Comments ( 1 )

To add: Mary Sue isn't so much an archetype as a story decision. A super-powered character is not necessarily a Mary Sue. You can have Mary Sues from incredibly weak characters, too.

Always fun to ask: Is Twilight Sparkle A Mary Sue? Is Celestia?

The second one is interesting to consider from a canon point of view. Celestia is the beloved character viewed from afar. Respected and loved by all, with many of the other characters (especially Twilight) being utterly devoted to her, thinking about her, and constantly sending her letters about lessons in their lives. Celestia is also a prankster, and loves to prank her own subjects.

In fact, her only weakness really seem to come from plot contrivances. In fanfics though, many authors tend to give her more personable qualities, or try to depict her as suffering from various complexes, and the crushing weigh of both ruling and the loneliness that comes from that.

Login or register to comment