Points of Canon: S5x22 - What About Discord · 1:30pm Jul 8th, 2016
Everyone’s off to Bronycon, while I’m trying to write and it comes out boring. So let’s have another retrospective.
This episode is difficult in terms of indirectly establishing canonical existence of objects, because references like Discord’s Bob Ross impression, and Pinkie’s Marty from Back to the Future impression are not really indicative of these things existing in the pony world. As such, I’m going to have to ignore most of those.
1. Actually, here’s a hypothesis for you. As I have previously theorised, a “moon” is probably an archaic measure of time, dominant in the time when the solar cycle could not be relied upon because Celestia was not in control of it, since the lunar cycle is magical in nature and does not depend on controllable celestial motion. Well, maybe it went back into fashion because Luna kept using it out of habit, and suddenly it was the in thing…
Spike’s “Didn’t we just shelve all the books in the library a few months ago?” question is a very rare post-Equestria-Girls mention of months.1 Music to my ears.
- Twilight devised a new system for organizing books. This makes the idea that ponies have any equivalent of Dewey Decimal or UDC rather unlikely, since Micro-Series #1 says that the usual way of keeping them is alphabetical order excluding the article – and not, say, in permanent shelf positions in order of acquisition as they did before DDC. It also makes me think that Twilight didn’t find “Elements of Harmony: A Reference Guide” under “E” not because this book wasn’t supposed to be there, but because she wasn’t aware it existed.
2. Since we’ve yet to see a paperback in pony world, the average weight would be 0.5kg, and they’d be dealing with about ten metric tons of paper. That’s a lot to haul around in three days. It’s also on the scale of 3200000 square meters of paper, or about 10 million sheets. Eyeballing the diameter of the library, I’d say it’s about 30m, which means that to shelve them all she needs the library to be at least twice as tall as the five shelves we see on screen. This is basically unusable without wings.
Twilight cites that her library contains on the order of 20000 books.2
- It’s interesting that both Twilight and Spike refer to these three days as a “long weekend,” which not only reiterates that weeks still exist, (thank Celestia) but also suggests that holidays may end up extending a more typical two-day weekend, just like it happens in most human nations.
- I think the cafe the epic lunch date occurred at did not previously feature on screen. The tablecloths and chairs are pretty distinctive.
- It’s interesting that Twilight has to ask Zecora for help with undoing Discord’s hypothetical spell. The most likely explanation is that Twilight can’t detect that the spell exists on her own, (because it doesn’t) so she’s grasping at straws right from the start. It is more likely than not that Zecora immediately concluded that no such spell exists and gave Twilight a placebo.
- Zecora admits the cauldron is kept boiling for decorative purposes at least at this time. Since she previously used it for making potions on screen, I’m sure that it’s the luminescent brew in it that is decorative, and not the cauldron itself.
- Zecora’s home is lit with candles. Candles are generally uncommon in the pony world, and only start showing up in later seasons. I wonder if something changed?
- Twilight addresses the Mane 6 as “gang” repeatedly, which is kinda useful, because we very rarely hear anyone refer to the Mane 6 as a unit at all.
- Fluttershy says that Twilight’s statement that Discord charmed the Mane 6 is an accusation of being “downright evil,” which is one of the rare statements that goes against the usual trend of ponies forgiving mind control as something trivial. I wonder, does it depend on who did it, or is the deciding factor that it was supposedly done without the victim’s knowledge?…
- It’s interesting that Twilight thinks that Princess of Friendship is not allowed to get jealous, but still does. The rest of Mane 6 don’t agree, so why would she think that?
If any episode solidifies Discord’s position and general attitude as that of a mythological trickster, it’s this one. The only thing that did change after his “reformation” is that he got more subtle.
He seems to at least be trying to not be evil.
He just isn't very good at it.
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Well, in one of the central speeches of this episode, when he describes his motivations, he says:
Now, is he telling the truth? My guess is no. He just discovered that as long as his actions can be construed to have a positive outcome, his motivations will not be questioned too much, and he won't be judged for them. I.e. he has accepted the value of social interaction with ponies who don't hate him, and at least attempts to maintain it, (since he managed to spend a weekend with most of the Mane 6 and get them to enjoy it, he's clearly making progress there -- much of which Twilight undid when he tried to troll her) but the moral distinction between good and evil is just as alien to him as it was.
I wouldn't call it "not very good," it's the same kind of "not very good" as when you're trying to communicate in a foreign language by using a phrasebook. :)
I suppose we can reasonably conclude that it's the weekend lasting three days which makes it "long," and not just that Celestia and Luna decided to make each of the days last thirty hours?
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There have, so far, been no canon references to any changes in day length at all which are not tied to an extraordinary crisis. We don't even know if they change seasonally, and with what we know about pony astrophysics, they don't have to -- the sun can simply be moved further out to reduce temperature, for example.
So I think it's reasonable to assume that it's the three days that make it a "long" weekend.
Lots of great points. What I liked about this episode is the Twilight/Spike booksortcation at the beginning. It shows us that Spike isn't required to do all those crazy chores for Twilight, he chooses to (at least on weekends.) Also that Twilight puts effort into finding activities that Spike enjoys.
I think Zecora's decorative cauldron adds weight to the theory that ponies routinely visit her house for potions, perhaps even before she was formally welcomed into town. It feels like a marketing gimmick to impress customers.
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Good point about Spike. This relationship is unique, and it's difficult to fit it into any legal framework without producing something crazy...
As for Zecora, I suspect that the whole zebra panic was started by the flower trio one day and became a runaway meme by accident. Ponyville ponies in general might be unsettled by a zebra due to uncanny valley effects, and Zecora seems to take some effort to present herself as mystical and otherworldly. But to actually scare the entire town requires a rumor, and who's to start it other than those three. :)
4079060 Crazy, or just rather dark. Part of me suspects Twilight has a pet license hidden away somewhere she plans never to tell Spike about...
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My stance, at least for Aporia, is that he is recognized as a sapient citizen (it would be silly otherwise) is a ward of the crown, a minor, with Twilight being his legal guardian (but not parent) since she reached adulthood.
I.e. he is family enough for Blueblood to refer to his "stepbrother" and "stepsister" (see the Hearthwarming presents incident in Hearthbreakers) even though technically he is not anypony's relative even by law, and Twilight has some level of legal responsibility for him, but most of it is shared collectively with the crown. Some pretty unique legal construct that probably took someone like Dotted Line a mountain of paperwork to set up. Twilight is probably listed in the books as a Child Protection Services worker in addition to many other duties.
4079655 That does sound about right. From the comics I would guess Celestia was legally his guardian until Twilight came of age, though it's obvious she dumped pretty much all the work on Twilight. Twilight in turn seems to have found a way to have Spike raise himself, which is a neat trick if you can manage it.
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IIRC, that hoof-digging thing which Zecora does in Bridle Gossip is authentic zebra thing, but which in horse body language signifies aggression. So yeah, some kind of an "uncanny valley" thing is definitely going on.
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They never actually explain why she does it in the episode itself, too. I wonder what it might have meant to Zecora...
Discord's proportions seemed longer than usual here? Except in Sugarcube Corner, where he was obviously squeezed down.
Crime of friendship against the Princess of Friendship, treason, off with his head…
though we've seen Pinkie survive autodecapitation; I'm certain he would quite be able to duplicate the feat.
She's retreating into her books rather than to friends. Again. Therefore, her ideas on friendship are probably something she's managed to read, that "real friends don't get jealous".
Objection! Prior magic that Twilight could not deal with, which Zecora helped with, has repeated precedent: Poison Joke, Plundervines, Magic Duel […and Changeling disguise, later, though it's not directly going to her for help.] Really, Zecora's like Sunset Shimmer except voluntary Zebrica -> Equestria rather than Equestria->Pedestria. After all, she does have the celestial-group magic-cutie-mark of the Sun-Moon-Stars family. Wonder how she'd fare in a Magic Duel…though I think she'd beat Twi if just because she'd be able and considering of how to bake a victory into the opening terms, while Twi wouldn't think until too late.
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Spike definitely throws his hat back into the backup-loyalty ring in this. Even if he feels it's a bit boring, he does voluntarily go along with the Book Organication for her sake.
"ties the room together" could also hint at Feng Shui or similarly mystical hoodoo.
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A
recent?fic I read recently suggested "[inadvertent] bondservant" for how their relationship is. Legally, though, not specified there.4312913
Poison joke: Not a spell.
Plundervines: Not a spell, chaos magic.
Magic duel: Zecora did not produce any magical solution to Twilight’s query, beyond some rather abstract training exercise, which wasn't what solved the problem in the end.
Changeling disguise: Probably not a spell either.
I.e. Twilight tends to consult Zecora in desperation, which happens often if she has to deal with magic that is not a spell. I don’t see a problem.
Legally, it’s not specified anywhere. But there’s Friendship is Magic #40 and the events therein suggest that there’s a legal fiction involved.
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I'm objecting to the "grasping at straws" bit…though, one wonders why she didn't try the "failsafe" spell.
AS for not being a spell, it seems reasonable to call an unknown magical effect perpetrated by a sapient a spell…such as those plunder vines. Genesis of Species is a spell [class], after all, as is Entangle. Though, it makes me wonder about how she thought "there's no such thing as curses". I feel that that was more an effect of a very whitewashed magical education, but…
Also of minor note this episode is that he makes a throne with his head as his surrogate Cutie Mark.
And i forgot an important deduction bit.
plus Made in Manehattan's "I've read all these books"…throw in words-per-page and a cap on reading speed, and you can estimate some lower bounds on Twilight's age, as it is her primary activity for all but a few years of her life.
Though, my calculations suggest that this is one magnitude smaller than her corpus of read material, but there're too many estimates for it to be accurate.
A comparison with the Amending Fences library-space (tower and public) will be warranted.
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Possibly, because it is never shown to actually work for her, not that I remember. :)
The actual difference would be in the verb. A spell is cast, that is, consciously produced by a magic user, and can be seen as it is being produced at least in theory. Other spell-like effects do not have that property which makes them much more difficult to study.
More likely, a curse is also something specific, rather than just a spell…
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If it meant something other than the standard meaning ( "Persistent negative magic effect on subject, usu. resilient to standard dispels" ) then we'd need a good reason to believe that, though.
A censorlestia could effect "[printed nonfiction information on] curses don't exist". Unicorn tradition could put it as "non-unicorn-tribe magic", in a racist manner.
Whoops. I might've let some fanfiction seep into my head where she got a bubble of normalcy from her failsafe spell.
(I do like "A Magic World"'s bit where witchcraft is tribe-nonspecific means of invoking structured magical effects.)
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There’s no standard meaning to anything magical in this canon. In fact, there are at least four considerably different ideas of what terms magic should be described in, used throughout the screen canon alone. We’re mostly on our own. :)
My guess is that a “curse” is a negative magical effect obtained through non-magical means, like inflicting a magical effect without casting a spell purely by evil will alone, e.g. “evil eye.” As such, curses really don’t exist, and the word is misused left and right.
The only time a failsafe spell is used is during The Return of Harmony, wherein it most definitely fails. Twilight never uses it again that I remember.
They mix procedural magic with purely-functional magic over there, so depending on how the interpreter works, they could be perpetually one bracket away from a total meltdown. :)
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My argument is that, until we have good reason to believe otherwise, words they use should be considered to mean what they mean to us…except, I suppose, this case of it apparently being nonsensical would be a good reason, then…if I were to insist otherwise, it would seem to be begging the question.
The Stare would seem to suggest otherwise. Even if it's not evil, it's [almost] definitely a magic effect.
Which makes me wonder how the Saddle Arabian version of the hamsa is shaped.
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It is, but it isn’t seen that way most of the time. Mind you, Twilight never tried to study it the same way she tried to study Pinkie Sense…
Perhaps the Stare's effect extends to preventing its own analysis.