On Labels · 8:59am May 27th, 2016
art by Empalu
This week, Strategic Jordan started on Chapter 19 in his audiobook react series of Fallout: Equestria. This is the chapter "Betrayal", so this ought to be good.
However, at the time of this blog posting, this video has only garnered a single comment... and such a lovely comment it is.
Really, this still?
In truth, I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed. I had three immediate reactions. First was frustration that there are people who still try to use homosexuality as a negative label. Even if they themselves are homophobic, shouldn't they have enough cultural awareness to realize that a growing majority aren't on that same page? Second was amusement that the bigot chose an Fo:E video. Fallout: Equestria, with its LGBT protagonist, certainly isn't for the homophobic. Finally, I noticed this person managed to misspell "ponies". That certainly did not make me feel inferior.
I didn't put any of that into a comment, of course. In such cases, it is best not to feed the troll. (Edit: it appears the comment may have now been deleted.)
I'll say a little more below the break. But first, it would be nice if a few of you left some comments of a more respectable caliber on the video. (Something for Strategic Jordan, of course, and not food for the troll.) Anyone up for that?
art by monoChromacat
I've been told, and on more than one occasion, that I need to stop calling myself a "brony".
Being a fan of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is fine. But "brony", these people tell me, has too much of a negative connotation. The name, they say, is too tarnished by the worst aspects of the fandom. I am told I need to reject the label in order to distance myself from the individuals these people find cringeworthy.
No. I'm a brony.
"Brony" is simply the name for a fan of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, no matter what baggage some people attach to it. I enjoy the show quite a lot, more than any show since Babylon 5, and I happily create content for the fandom (even if these days it is mostly blogs). So yes, I am a fan. And I am not going to refuse to say that I am one out of fear that I would be associated with a minority of individuals or behavior within the fandom that I find objectionable... much less that someone else does.
And yes, there are those within the fandom whom I do find objectionable. But that's been the case with any fandom... or for that matter, any sufficiently large collection of people with a common interest... that I have ever been part of. For better or worse, that is the nature of such groups. God knows, there are bronies who find me objectionable.
Rather, the people I find more cringeworthy are those who try to paint an entire fandom or group with the image of those within it that they dislike the most, and people who try to use labels like "brony" as if they are inherently negative.
My last blog was about a recent interview that I had with Allyster Black for Equestria Daily. It was a lot of fun, and I'm happy to see that the interview was so well received (and may have persuaded a few new readers to give the story a try).
I was also delightfully amused when some self-righteous crusader attempted to turn people against me by labeling me "a furry and a pervert". And absolutely nobody cared. 
Which is good, because they shouldn't. The guy threw around "furry" and "pervert" the way people like the YouTuber above throw around "brony" and "gay" -- as if there is anything inherently wrong with either. Attempting to use such labels as derogatory says far more negative things about the poster than the person they are trying to defame. Bronies have been on the receiving end of that kind of labeling enough I'm actually a little surprised the troll thought he would get any traction. But only a little.
For the record:
Furry: Do I enjoy anthropomorphic animals? Yes, I do. In fact, The Secret of NIMH is still my favorite movie. And I love Zootopia. 
Pervert: Do I enjoy a fetish, kink, fantasy, sexual orientation and/or gender identity which at least that person wouldn't approve of? God, I hope so! 
Back when I was in college, I was part of the campus roleplaying games club. We would walk openly down the street chatting about superpowers, cyberware and flaming axes, dice rolls and epic battles with hordes of orcs. We would get the most hilarious looks from people passing by. We called it "scaring the straights". And not one of us flinched from it.
It's kinda cool to know that I'm still scaring the straights.
--Kkat
Still a brony.
PS: I might be a little late on my Afterthoughts for "The Saddle Row Review", but it should be up by the end of the weekend.
"Commission: A Culture Question" by Dronehunter19
Tell that to fans who've explicitly stated they just think of Littlepip as a stallion to resolve the conflict between their "disapproval" towards LGBT people and their enjoyment of the story.
I wish I was joking.
In the space where I live, labels like "weird" or "pervert" are taken as compliments, and I share your amusement with attempts to use them as slander.
Anyway, I was initially surprised that you bothered to post any sort of response to a youtube troll at all, but... where you went with it was certainly worth the read. The piece on the label of 'brony' has been particularly relevant to me of late, as I've been hearing the same things for at least a year or so.
You know, George Takei delt with this matter quite succintly when deal with Eminems less then charitable views on gays, in short, mr rapper thinks they're gross. That's the long and veiny of it, he doesn't that behavior.
Mr Takei replied in a video "My good man, we gays do not hate you. In fact, myself and my loved one enjoy watching your music videos, and I can honestly say, gay men like you Eminem. We like you a lot." And though he has been outspoken in his opinions, that particular rapper has made visits and donation to various lgbt groups.
To some it is. Its widely regarded in those circles as harmful to people and society at large, and those who sleep the same gender are sick individuals. Many groups and fellows I've spoken too though make their position clear that while they may care for their gay neighbors, they cannot and will not condone it. How horrible. I'll say this and avoid any personal feeling on it: I think that we in the western world can thank God that the worst of our most outspoken christian pundits are just annoying at best and pricks at worst. As opposed to the Middle East, where they chuck you off the side of a building.
Lets see now... pray the gay away, or make gay go away with the old heave ho? I'll take Westborough cunts for 500 Alex! ! I apologize if I seem glib here, but yeah... Always going to be those who disagree here my friends.
In short... they should just shut up? That's the beauty of freedom of speech my dear... morons flock to spout of stupid like a pig to mud. And this is just my own opinion, but I think gays should be able to explain their own positions and asserions without the Orwellian word play of questioning their behavior Invalidates their experiences, in short, my feewings get sad when big meanies come around and say I'm wrong!
Yeah... but you're gay is more "oh? Good for you, now pass the butter." as opposed to those who would probably make her choice in frogging her entire identity and into some tragic hero just for that.
Okay... gonna put a pin in this, and just say it... the furry fandom is a cesspool. I was a part of them for a bit, having found some decent work, but then encounters with some of their more... unhinged elements made me less then enthused witht he genre, then Softpaw magazine being sold at the "Adult" portion of a convention pretty much made me avoid them like the plague. (Softpaw was a pedo magazine. How they thought this was okay to sell and how no one was arrested is beyond me)
And a hearty and cheerful fuck you one and all for pestering such a beloved memebr of our fandom for using what we've been called for years.
Oh yeah, the foalcons, rape fics, and the peek we get into peoples horrid morality. But most of us shun those groups and let them have their stories because most keep it in fantasy. Of course we had one fellow who flat out admitted to being a pedophile on site and this fellow was shunned by most of us. And yes, I did rejoice with his all to late for me banning.
Why is this a conversation folks have?
Hold on, let me get out my class to ass translator! Okay done! Kkat just said in her nice and gentle way fuck off, I'll do I want!
And I think I can safely say that those people are either envious, or just dumb. I for one find you delightful Kkat, even though this comment will probably be deleted.
At first, I just thought you lot were the less creative faction of the furries. But then I looked in, and hey, what do you know?
Furry, no. Pervert... I've yet to have the distinct honor and pleasure of finding out
Again, I think bronies are more self aware then other fandoms. We know how it looks to folks, and respect that. As opposed to all to many furry who either are hedonists or those so abused they view any criticism or even basic hygene as an affront to their state of being. Thus furry kiddie porn and fellows so obsessed with escapism they can't even believe the face in the mirror.
How is stripping a thing? I mean... there naked most of the time! Must make strip poker night as much fun as a few hours watching paint dry.
I always think someone in the fandom is a homophobic brony. Or maybe that brony reading FO:E. Never would have known he/she probably exists.
You sound like fun
I'm going to be blunt; I am a Conservatarian Christian, and I do not approve of LGBTQ themes.
That being said, I don't necessarily disapprove of them, and neither do I pour derision on those who do approve or those with any of those lifestyles.
As far as I am concerned, it's between them and God, and I am able to get through 99% of stories with these themes without any trouble, and Fallout: Equestria is included. That small 1% is usually fics where it feels like the author has their character a certain way to pursue an agenda, and so, like any other character type who is crafted with that in mind, everything feels forced, like the whole world is a strawman.
Take, for example, the recent Marvel storyline with the alternate-reality Wolverine, Col. James Howlett, and his apparent romance with his reality's Hercules. To me, that felt forced, like Marvel was taking a hero known for his hypermasculinity and womanizing and saying "Oh, but in another universe, he's gay! See how progressve we are?" (as to which hero I mean, feel free to take your pick). That felt like an episode of Family Guy where Stewie and Brian get into the Army somehow, and for one scene pretend to be gay to get kicked out.
Littlepip's homosexuality felt smooth; at no point was it the focus of the story, and it shouldn't have been, much in the same way a heterosexual's lifestyle in a story shouldn't be. When that happens, it turns into an author tract, and nobody wants to read that.
Nobody wants to be made to care, and as long as I'm not, I don't care.
I jist wish more people, on all sides of the spectrum, took that stance.
EDIT: Needless to say, Beantrill is an asshole. You can voice disapproval all you wish, but you sure as hell don't need to be rude.
And that was, wothout a doubt, rude.
lesbian horse stories are for straight people only! Apparently!
I am not a brony but i have come to the defense of bronies when comments get that silly. I turn around and tell the folks that every fandom has its problem people. The guy then said Dr who dosen't. I then said there is a group out there that hates all fandoms. They even wants to murder whoovians because they dare like dr who.
there is nothing wrong with gays, god knows we have all watched lesbian po rn sorry for misspelling, using wifi so can't have those two things together. that being said, i do find it upsetting when people try turning anyone gay or strait, its there life and thy can live it the way thy wan't, personally i thing that the political debate of transgenders who were boys going into the girls bathrooms is stupid because the bathrooms were not created for someone who thinks that thy are ether or but of what thy physically are, that being said i think that we should do away with gender specific bathrooms and have them all be unisex, save a lot of money and maybe the guys will be able to experience going into a good bath room. altho im not ok with my little girl going to the showers with a 'girl' that has a penis
Do to my upbringing, (being from Marin bay area, California) hommophobia has, and to tell the truth, still is an alien thing to me. they are simply people, who are attracted to people of the same gender. Personally, from how tings turned out in my life, I'd probably have been a lot happy if I was born gay, though you can never tell how life will come out, but I know that I would have at least been a lot less lonely, and a lot less made an outsider by most people I know. (Being a strait sis white guy with mild autism tends to make you less then popular, though it's probably worse for people like ten years my younger.) So Littlepip being a lonely lesbian living in an underground shelter, I found that an endearing part of her character, and her finding Homage, seemed like the lucky brake she was owed for. Though by that point she was real thirsty for a mare, so you can say she got lucky, and didn't run into a lesbian raider.
But ya, spelling ponies wrong, and saying a homophobic word over a story about a gay pony... brilliant.
PS: Woot, Turnip and Rufus get a cameo on Kkat's blog, this gives me the biggest grin. =D
3976140 I should direct you to the Transformers Fandom, admittedly they being my other fandom from childhood have an extremely dark side to it all that no one else seems to notice. So when people decide to try and shut me down since I am a Brony, I just pretty much laugh it off and tell them to go take a look at something that has existed since the early 80's and that all fandom's are subject to dark sides.
Needless to say it is an unpopular view, lol.
Kkat, Honestly I don't think they will ever learn, ever. It is an unfortunate and sad truth, but I can label it as the Imperial Truth and we could begin the Exterminautus. I am joking of course, but in all relative light they don't really engage the older members of the Fandom anymore. (And having my parents refer to me as a Brony in front of my peers was hilarious. Even more so because one of my neighbors refuses to talk to me now, while all of CAP (USAF CIV AUX) pretty much knows due to my phone and the many different wallpapers of Pilot-Scootaloo or Wonderbolt Dash but don't care in the least, though it did get a reaction from a Lt Col who jumped back and said I was one of those, then shrugged and said so is my sister so I don't care, lol.)
One question I have always had, but have been unable to discern with a definite yes or no if I may ask?
P.S. While I do not want to get involved with the bathroom issue, I find myself in an agreeable nature with 3976147 so...
I just feel disappointed that someone had to use homosexuality as an insult when it really shouldn't be used as such.
I'll still call myself a brony.
Why would anyone care about that?
This made me bust out laughing.
Sounds like fun conversations.
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Speaking as someone who used to clean bathrooms on a daily basis, I take umbrage with this. Women's bathrooms are, by far, much more disgusting as a general rule. I have a high tolerance for physical nastiness, and the first time I ever gagged from something being gross was from cleaning a ladies' room.
Besides that, unisex bathrooms are not a good idea due to Peeping Toms and Tinas. I went into a unisex bathroom once. Just once. I looked up and some lady was peeking over the wall at me.
So, yeah, no.
If bronies are going to keep launching into a sob story and philosophical debates every time someone makes a stupid comment (on YouTube, no less), then I can't help but agree with the guy.
3976341 better than so posed trans sex going to the opposite bathrooms, and were i live, the girls are always clean and the mens is underfunded. and peeping toms can go to jail
Oh Kkat, never change
I'm glad you're not one of the bronies who feel so defeated with the haters that they want to abandon the name. It's sad that friends I know don't use the name because of others, but it's nice to know there's a like mind out there.
Good luck to Strategic Jordan in the future!
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I am all too familiar with the loneliness that you both mentioned. I grew up with a group of people who were very accepting of the LGBT crowd, but I am an outsider even among outsiders. I don't fit into any crowd perfectly, no matter what I try. You know you're weird when the people considered weird by society give you weird looks and call you crazy.
Loneliness has a been a constant companion through my whole life, I'll always be alone. I don't even fit in the "LGBT" acronym. FIM has been the latest, and most effective, step in avoiding being a suicidal depressing monster of anger and hatred.
But I digress, I understand where y'all are coming from completely. So cudos for staying positive!
My turn to be blunt. To the narrow minded, ignorant cockmunches out there, I say they can all kiss the darkest part of my lily white Irish ass if they think for one second I give two shits out of a rat's ass what they think. When they go out of their way to be malicious to people in real life that I see I try my best to shut that garbage down as quick as possible without escalating shit. Some people are just asshats and you can't change that. It's a shame really.
I had similar thoughts about identifying myself as a feminist. Every group has their extremists and loud, angry types.
labeling like this is just a way to bring down people, I am a fairly neutral person when it comes to stuff like this but labeling as a way to dis credit people is why I will never use the following words: racist, sexist, social justice warrior, tumbler, misogynist, gay, homophobic. Labels like these are used so often as way to discredit people as bad people, unless a person indifferently those things I'll not listen to someone that uses labels.
But the thing that makes me hate labels is that people only use labels when it fit the point of view of how they see things. People use brony as a negative when people want to talk about everything bad about the fandom, but nobody uses labels when they talk about how bad other fandoms are, just bronies because it can make hating someone without knowing them easier. This because labels are use to fit someone's narrative of how they view a person or a group rather what they really are, but I guess that's what labels have always have been used for.
3976426 Or we could just keep it short and simple, and keep the bathrooms separate and birth gender specific.
And I have never heard of separate funding for bathrooms. Sounds like lazy custodian work, to me.
hi hi
The My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic fandom, commonly referred to as bronies, and the Fallout Equestria fandom, reminded me of a lesson I've repeatedly learned throughout life. Fitting in is definitely not the same thing as belonging.
As a general rule, I dislike labels of all sorts, whether they have positive or negative connotations. Sure they can be somewhat useful in passing, when nothing in-depth is needed, but far too often people are reduced from complex and nuanced individuals into one dimensional stereotypes. Especially when you don't know someone at all, it is an invitation to pre-judge them.
And of course, when people don't even share the same definition for a label, even what little beneficial uses labels have then break down. Language, it turns out, isn't even remotely objective. Its purpose is to share information between different people. Any subjective symbol or label used only works if the speaker and the audience share the same definition, or at least, a close enough definition. But the only things that tie the symbol or label to the abstract concept, let alone the object itself, are completely invented.
One can argue about what the most commonly used definition is, and hopefully they can back that up with some evidence, but to argue about what the correct definition is, is an exercise in futility. Saying that one person is right and one person is wrong in the latter case doesn't create any understanding of the thing itself. Definitions are by their very nature, matters of opinion.
The question of how prevalent something is may be relevant, but unfortunately for any individual, the answer to that question is not simply about them, or what they think, or what they deeply believe. When I was very young, Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree was a favorite song of mine, but I've since had to accept that it just doesn't work anymore. And if you'll excuse the analogy, it doesn't matter what my personal opinion is about how encouraging giving a pat on the shoulder is, if someone has sunburned shoulders, even though it is no fault of my own, giving them a pat on the shoulder may not be a good idea.
When you're having a semantic argument with someone, it is sometimes helpful to stop and ask yourself this question: "Am I trying to come to an understanding, or am I trying to win?"
Although I love Secret of NIMH, and Zootopia is a new favorite movie of mine, I also like a lot of movies that have a standard white male lead, and I don't think the nuances of either statistic can be addressed by accepting or rejecting one label or another. If I say I am a brony, or not a brony, it doesn't really convey the rather conflicted feelings I have about the show; the themes, lessons, setting, and character development. All of which someone would probably assume about me if I did say one way or another.
Now, it is certainly a matter of personal preference, whether one advertises themselves on their sleeve, or tries to keep themselves private. There's no wrong or right way to do it, but for people who advertise themselves publicly, it is important to remember that half of any work of literature, art, or self-expression is in the eye of the beholder, the audience.
When it comes to trolls, it really is often best not to give them the attention, and by extension the legitimacy they crave. Calling people out who spread misinformation is good, but it is important to realize the point at which you are wasting your time talking to a brick wall. Instead, keep on building up a collection of content that helps people understand when they are not personally affected, and a network of support that helps people who are being harassed, and to encourage those people to seek help if they are being harassed.
3976731 Or rather, not birth gender, but sex specific.
Simple. If you have a penis, go into the bathroom with urinals, and if you don't have, don't.
Oh boy. Now somepony will be asking about other kinks XD And Mind you, I am always open to hear about them/discuss them and they are fun to read.
Well, I have been faced with indulgence about my brony affilation. My boss (who is my cousin) often teases me about it, more to make the not-mean fun out of my age and activities. Yet there is my father who, of course, at first reacted rather shocked and thought it was one of my "phases". When he discovered that the Brony community gave me friends, aquiantances, even means to share my arts with the world (and from time to time having a monetary reward from it) he warmed up to the idea and he accepts it wholly knowing, that I don't indulge in bad influences. And of course he still cringes around the darker corners of our little community and he wasn't really kin on reading Fallout: Equestria.
The brony community, as convoluted (and sometimes polluted with trolls and bad seeds) is one of the most accepting bunch of people I had ever met and I am proud to wear my buttons, badges, other stuff, and calling myself a brony. I don't care if we have bad seeds, I always remember that even the most respected and genuine groups and organizations have bad seeds and they are not misjudged for that.
I love you all guys! <3
P.S.
In my parts, we are a part of a brony fandom and we love it. I am a Brony, yes, but I feel even stronger being a Fallout: Equestria fan (Fallout:Equestrian? Ugh... A silly sounding name)! We are all united in our love of Colorful Ponies and Radioactive Dystopias! <3
That frustrations of people on YouTube. Every comment section is a potential flame war for numerous people. Possibly more-so if the video in question is about, pertains in part or even has a slight reference to My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I got called a gay faggot and that my profile picture (which was a pony, and still is) was cancer, most of all, it was on a Know Your Meme video, a series dedicated to meme's which tackled My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic previously, and I believe it was on the subject of the term 'Brony' anyway, uploaded before this incident.
It does somewhat irk me when someone has no knowledge of the fandom and just goes with the outside views and assumptions. I wish it wasn't too much to hope for these kinds of people to have at least some kind of knowledge about the show before making those kinds of comments, wherever-be-it. I wish these kinds of people would give the show a chance, just how I did, before deciding whether they want to accept it or bash it.
It is fairly comical how that person mentioned above had to of purposely clicked on that video, clearly set in the MLP universe, just to enter that comment. I'd thank them for the view in any case, because that in itself is kind of funny.
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well if thy went threw the effort to get a penis and remove boobs, thy count as a dude. that being said it would be better have less out cry to just make unisex. and in schools, the mens room is not always clean
Never quite understood why some people shy away from association with the things they enjoy for fear of some negative connotation. Seems like people take that stuff too seriously and get invested in what others think about them. I've always been proud to call myself a brony, regardless of what anyone thinks, it makes me happy. Hell, the same concept can be applied on a smaller scale to being a fan of FoE within the brony community itself. If you enjoy something or are passionate about it you should be proud of it and feel free to embrace it.
But I digress, it was nice to see your opinions on the matter and I'm glad you don't let the majority decide how you should feel about things. After all, lions shouldn't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
By the way, good work with that interview, it was quite an interesting read!
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I feel about the same way and have a similar reasoning as to why I feel that way.
Conservative Bronies Unite!
Oh and Beantrill is an ###
3977035 The first is a matter of opinion; frankly, it cheapens the masculine identity into surgical hack-and-slashery, "stitch this thing on and boom, you're a guy".
As for the unisex bathrooms...
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/unisex-toilets-in-schools-should-be-avoided-at-all-costs-9206081.html
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/04/11/university-of-toronto-learns-why-mandatory-unisex-bathrooms-are-a-bad-idea/
http://socawlege.com/the-case-against-fully-shifting-to-gender-neutral-bathrooms/
3977253 3976147 3976816 This is really not the place to be having the bathroom argument. Please take it elsewhere.
3977668 It seems to me to be a natural evolution and connection to the original subject matter, but since you ask so nicely...
Senpai noticed me
3977963 he is right, we should not argue it here.
Well said Kkat, sorry you have to deal with some of these comments.
Have a good one.
holy crap. is that luna?!
Every time I read one of your blogs, Kkat, I always find myself appreciating your perspective, and this topic is no exception as I've been thinking about the pros and cons of labels for a while. I also always find myself considering a few more perspectives then when I came in, and I thank you for that. In this world it seems it's the standard to either conform yourself, or judge others because of the connotations some people want to attribute to words, rather than decide the meanings of these labels for ourselves.
I myself have been on the fence about "scaring the straights," concerned that I might burn bridges with someone by accident, but I think I'm going to have fun with it, as if they're put off completely by a single thing someone has said or a label they attribute to themselves without them asking about it, they probably weren't worth knowing. Looking forward to your next essay!
Kkat, you rock.
I'll admit, I'm rather surprised at the amount of people that try to say that this is the worst fandom in existence, and then I feel like I have to show them other fandoms, some of which are worse! I don't mind labels(I've been a fan of many things, I can't even keep track of them!) because I love watching all of these things, and I love calling myself a trekkie, fiver,brony, whovian, and whatever you've got.
One thing I've noticed people tend to say when they try not to label themselves or leave the fandom is that this is their first, and I don't think I'll ever understand how that feels because like you, I've been a part of many fandoms.
By the way, I like the way you think!