It Doesn't Matter Who Started It: On Author Responses to Criticism · 6:33pm Apr 11th, 2016
“Concrit only!” Is famous as being part of newbie fanfic writer descriptions, along with “don’t like, don’t read” and “<character> is my OC-- do not steal!” These are often tossed around by experienced fanfic writers as jokes, but I’ve seen versions of them on first fanfics often enough to know they have basis in fact. What’s funny about them to the experienced writers is the naivete: as if people who would normally go around leaving negative comments or reading things they don’t like are going to see that note and realize that clearly they should leave this one alone.
Concrit is short for constructive criticism, which Wanderer D blogged about yesterday. It’s a great blog, and worth keeping in mind when you offer critique to writers on stories. If people take it to heart the world will be a better place, because constructive criticism is sometimes helpful to writers, and one of the better ways to make yourself heard if you’re saying bad things about someone’s stories.
But as I read the blog, something fell into place, and I think that it’s important to remember:
The responsibility for handling criticism always comes down to the author. No matter what, short of outright threats or personal attacks (in which case you should get the site mods involved.)
As people in a society, in real life or online, we should all strive to be polite and helpful. Encouraging that is a worthy goal! So by all means, if someone is trying to give critiques or offer writers help, people like Wanderer D should post blogs or guides to help them do that. We all benefit from good critics who know what they’re talking about and how to express that.
But it’s the author whose name is attached to the work. In the context of a specific story, the author has the largest voice. Critics are a chorus, largely faceless. There might be some who are more well known than the author, but in the comments of a fic, or the context of reviews, the spotlight is on the author.
And it’s the author who has the most to lose. People aren’t going to remember a stupid, condescending review on a story, even if the stunning ignorance of it etched itself on the author’s soul and he printed it out to throw darts at it every night. Even if everyone else agrees that it’s stupid and condescending, they’ll downvote and move on with their lives. Even the person who wrote it probably won’t remember it: how many people here can remember the most downvoted comment they ever made?
But what people will remember is the drama surrounding it, especially if the author managed to have a spectacular meltdown, carried it to his blog (or, Celestia help him, someone else’s blog) or started blocking users and deleting comments or stories. Authors who do that a lot get a reputation-- other authors don’t want to be associated with them, they chase away casual fans, they don’t get invited to take part in projects or collabs. They’re limiting their social circle, their opportunities to promote themselves and their work to people who might enjoy it, and their opportunities to learn from other good writers and editors. All to make sure that critics that everyone is going to forget about know how wrong they are.
Now, I’m not saying that writers should never respond to critics. Sometimes there’s a specific correction to what a critic said that needs to be made, sometimes you want more information about where you went wrong, and sometimes you just want to understand where the critic is coming from. And sometimes you’re just interested in debating a theme from your story or a point of writing advice. That’s all fine, and it’s one of the cool things about the connectivity offered by the internet. But, while it’s nice for a critic to stay calm and polite, it’s imperative for a writer to do that.
Over ten years ago, there was a rather famous incident where Anne Rice’s novel Blood Canticle had gotten some bad reviews on Amazon.com. She responded with a comment of her own, some aspects of which will probably look all too familiar to most fanfic readers and authors:
From the Author to the Some of the Negative Voices Here, September 6, 2004 Seldom do I really answer those who criticize my work. In fact, the entire development of my career has been fueled by my ability to ignore denigrating and trivializing criticism as I realize my dreams and my goals. However there is something compelling about Amazon's willingness to publish just about anything, and the sheer outrageous stupidity of many things you've said here that actually touches my proletarian and Democratic soul. Also I use and enjoy Amazon and I do read the reviews of other people's books in many fields. In sum, I believe in what happens here. And so, I speak. First off, let me say that this is addressed only to some of you, who have posted outrageously negative comments here, and not to all. You are interrogating this text from the wrong perspective. Indeed, you aren't even reading it. You are projecting your own limitations on it. And you are giving a whole new meaning to the words "wide readership." And you have strained my Dickensean principles to the max. I'm justifiably proud of being read by intellectual giants and waitresses in trailer parks,in fact, I love it, but who in the world are you? Now to the book. Allow me to point out: nowhere in this text are you told that this is the last of the chronicles, nowhere are you promised curtain calls or a finale, nowhere are you told there will be a wrap-up of all the earlier material. The text tells you exactly what to expect. And it warns you specifically that if you did not enjoy Memnoch the Devil, you may not enjoy this book. This book is by and about a hero whom many of you have already rejected. And he tells you that you are likely to reject him again. And this book is most certainly written -- every word of it -- by me. If and when I can't write a book on my own, you'll know about it. And no, I have no intention of allowing any editor ever to distort, cut, or otherwise mutilate sentences that I have edited and re-edited, and organized and polished myself. I fought a great battle to achieve a status where I did not have to put up with editors making demands on me, and I will never relinquish that status. For me, novel writing is a virtuoso performance. It is not a collaborative art.[...]
...It goes on. Like, that’s not even half of it. It’s been deleted, but you can read the full thing here.
Now, I happen to have read Blood Canticle. I liked it! It wasn’t her best work, but it was much better than Memnoch the Devil or Tale of the Body Thief, and at least Lestat was back after her writing-for-Jesus period.
So maybe those negative reviews were totally, 100% wrong. Even if we assume that, what did Anne Rice accomplish here? She became a laughing stock at the time and solidified a reputation as an unstable and unprofessional writer. She was a writer who should have been catnip to internet fandom at a point where she had the opportunity to revitalize the hands-down best romantic-vampires-with-interpersonal-drama property around, and she royally blew it.
As I implied above, we see meltdowns like this all the time among fanfic writers. They might not have as much to lose as Anne Rice, but it influences people. If you think I’m thinking about someone in particular, you’re probably part right, because I can think of at least four people off the top of my head, both big and small names, who have or are developing reputations as ticking drama bombs looking for a chance to blow. Their skill level doesn’t matter, some of them are good and some are awful, but there are many more people both better and worse than them who somehow manage to take criticism in stride.
Writers need to have a thick skin. We’re making something out of bits and pieces of language, then holding it out to the public -- publishing, if you will -- and saying “Look at what I made!”
And some people won’t like it. And some people will be rude. And some people will be wrong. That’s how the world works, and we can (and should!) encourage people not to be rude or wrong, but we can’t stop them. If you can’t handle or ignore that, the solution is to not publish your writing. If you put it out there, and there’s a shitstorm, as the author you’re always going to be the one in the middle of it, and most of it will end up on you.
Finally, I’m not saying I’m perfect here. I get roped into internet fights very easily, more often about ideas than the quality of my stories, and while it takes a very long time for me to get outright rude I know I can pass into condescending and snarky pretty quickly. It’s a bad habit, and I need to work on it. Or at least be more subtle about it.
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Oh man. The Rice thing. I forgot alllllll about that. Classic.
I try to follow the rule 'think then post'. Or in my case, if someone makes me angry, I write a response and then go away for a couple hours or even a day. Then I come back and reread what I wanted to say. In many cases, I'm able to say what I wanted in a more polite fashion.
I don't always manage, but it's something I've found helps. Also ice cream and punching bags.
I agree. I've said for years that if you don't have at least one in ten profoundly negative reactions, either nobody's noticing what you do or what you do isn't enough of a thing to really matter.
I take this to heart well enough that I manage about one hater in five readers, it sometimes seems
Yet I am unrepentant
The underlying reality here is that you CANNOT become immune to criticism by honing your craft and doing better work, not unless your whole goal is to be ultimately innocuous and not rock any boats. Doing anything that matters is polarizing: the more you delight your true audience, the more you'll enrage people you really shouldn't be writing for anyhow. And this holds no matter what perspective you view it from: no matter what direction you choose you can always go farther in that direction.
Now, this takes on great importance in any context where you can get 'blackballed' and kept out of the discourse, and I'm not sure what to do there. But that's where Bookplayer's advice comes into play. If you're doing thing A and fans of thing Q turn up and go 'this is awful! You're banned from Q fandom forever kthxbai!' and you can't just accept that gracefully, trusting that people can tell the difference between A and Q and allowing Not Your Kind Of People to have their say… then there will be trouble.
One MUST be able to allow the world to have unsafe places, and not to go to them. The world is too large to be tamed.
Hahah. I think I know why you felt like writing about this. The comments even got deleted, eh?
While I'm definitely not big enough to get a lot of hate, I've got a fair bunch of reviews that were overly negative, and some of them certainly were more a personal attack than a commentary on my story. While the first time I got a bad review for a story I ended up devastated -- I was 14 at the time, if I remember correctly, and it was in an old Spanish forum with two readers and seventeen writers -- I remember clearly that I chose not to reply.
And boy, was that a good decision.
Handling criticism is always hard, and I believe that it's perfectly natural to feel hurt, feel angry towards the reviewer, and believe that the review is wrong. Even if it isn't, that's our knee-jerk reaction, becase we just got told that something we made ourselves, something we believed was pretty good, is actually not that swell.
So we get protective. And that's natural! But it's not rational. You can rationalize it, of course, but you still feel bad about it. What I always suggest is to avoid confronting the person who just offended you, and getting some room to breathe. Lose that initial attachtment to the story (the one you get when you just posted it), wait it out until you can be a little more objective, and then read the criticism again.
Maybe reply to the review, if you still think it missed a point, but always, always be polite and respectful. The reader didn't like the story, that's never going to change. Accept it and learn. You'll feel horrible for a while -- maybe a couple hours, maybe a day, maybe a week -- and I know that's really bad, but in the long term, this is the best way to avoid unnecessary drama.
So wait it out until the knee-jerk reaction is gone, and then judge the comment again. Once that the mere idea of your work being underwhelming stops offending you, you can actually see if the review was on point or if it was just somebody being an idiot all over you. Chances are you already knew this from the get-go, but you'd be surprised!
It's about growing, really. Even the insulting reviews can make you realize something about yourself, even if it's less "he has a point" and more "I'm going to do exactly what he complained about because fuck this guy in a subtle way". Your choice, man. But really, waiting until you can judge, or at least be able to read the review without getting angry (and think that the reviewer is an idiot, but, like, coldly). And on top of it all, you'll avoid being a laughingstock.
When it comes to commenting, I have no real advice. Personally I avoid saying things unless they're good, or unless I believe I can really help. If a person can only get better by practice because they're too new, let them be; they'll get better. You'll just hurt them. And if you have to give a bad review, always think twice about what you're saying, and make damn sure you don't offend the writer. You will make him feel bad no matter what, so be sure to soften the blow as much as possible.
People give shit to the idea of sugarcoating, and I see that it can be harmful sometimes -- but really, just don't be an ass. That's the best way to go.
But yeah, responding to criticism is an art in and of itself. Personally, I find that on the few occasions when I absolutely must rage at someone, the best way to do it is to do it out loud. I don't mean making a YouTube video or anything, just yelling at my monitor until I feel I can address the critique in a calm, rational manner.
One day, when they least expect it, I'm going to steal ALL of the O.C.s.
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I just had to say that "fuck this guy in a subtle way" is my battle cry from now on.
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But... but... Being an ass is, like, my whole thing, man!
It takes a lot of time and conscious thought, I think, to develop the kind of separation between the story and the author's self needed to handle criticism well. Of course it's good, even vital to write from the heart, but that doesn't mean you can't cut the emotional cord eventually. How are you supposed to edit otherwise? It's also a bit tough when you have commentators that don't distinguish between the story and the author's self, either because they don't know how to, or don't care to.
But unless it's blatantly wrong or significantly disparaging to the point where it affects potential readers, I try to take every non-positive comment as an occasion to learn something. A bitter pill to swallow, but worth at least a taste. Anyone who cared less would have downvoted and left. Commentators have crossed this admittedly low barrier must have been driven by something, prompted by what they read...
And even then that doesn't mean I have to follow up, either. I'm all for asking nicely for elaborations, but if I'm not in the mood to take it... I just don't. And that's fine. I don't lose by not playing.
i.ytimg.com/vi/UoStgb4P6xU/hqdefault.jpg
3863495 ~\o You don't always have to fuck 'em hard... In fact sometimes that's not right to do... o/~
Music notes are hard out of skype.
This is why, when people get upset at my reviews, I just quietly take them down and move on.
Also why I try not to be condescending or insulting or directly attacking, but I'm only human and some stories just suck so bad. D:
Ann certainly staked that vampire right through the heart. There's a fairly thick line between breakdown and beatdown. I'm scoring that whole response as a beatdown. Far too many people put their own interpretations on what a character is *supposed* to be instead of what the story is making them out to be in plain words, and there is a point where the reader goes one direction and the author goes another until --Snap!-- and the reader gets upset at having missed all of the "Turn ahead" and "Next Exit" signs for the last ten miles.
3863561 3863370 Some modern philosophies teach the value of proactive rage, i.e. react with anger and hate to any criticism, no matter how valid, and keep attacking and screaming until the critic shuts up. These crybullies have no sense of shame, and cannot be debated rationally, because all they have been taught is a static position defined by emotion, not logic. Thankfully, very few ponyfic writers are that way. Regrettably, some are.
3863511 You've got a PhD for that somewhere in the pile of 'em, don't you?
3863491 I'd be more than happy to loan you whatever ones you want, just treat them nice and have them home by eight.
What?! I have never seen this.
I remember being younger and finding the crudeness of the speech on the internet utterly dumbfounding. People just didn't talk like that to each other. I remember also having an expectation that people would try to deal with each other as people, rather than as faceless content generators.
I think that might be an important reason why there's often a disconnect. If you go on the internet with a story you've written expecting to be dealt with understandingly, like a human being by other human beings, and then you get someone writing you an "objective" review of your stuff, not seeming to give a shit about your feelings or even about helping you improve, that can be a tremendous culture shock. What kind of person would say harsh things like this? To respond defensively is to go into denial and to assume that the majority of people on the internet are not like this person, because if they were, that would be too horrible to contemplate. And at any rate, people who talk like this aren't worth trying to please, so why worry about whether you look bad to them? They're losing at life!
Anyway, I think it's thinking like that which explains a lot of the kind of overblown reactions you can often get from younger authors. I don't know what explains it from the older folks who've been in fandom for decades and should know better.
Reminds me of my favorite Jonathan Coulton song:
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You're lookin' for Alt+13 and Alt+14 there, bub.
3863733 phone!
Funtime tip for authors:
When in your comments sections, you are not writing from your own perspective.
Create your ideal self as a character, and then roleplay dealing with those comments from the perspective of that ideal self.
Aragon tries to roleplay someone who is actually funny, I try to roleplay someone who isn't as hateful and capricious and bitter and misanthropic as myself (basically anything I type that isn't actively threatening to eat your children is a good day for me) and Ghost has been known to use Dotted Line, I believe, because why improve on perfection?
Another good one: Imagine your mother is peering over your shoulder as you type.
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Haha! I knew that you wouldn't be able to use my helpful advice! Didn't I tell you people I was an asshole?
(...I'm sorry...)
There's been one author in particular I'm thinking of, who's no longer on the site, that was always so easy to rile. I hated to see it, because I liked him (both his stories and him personally), and it was painful to watch him not only be hurt in the first place, but then hurt himself more in the ensuing drama.
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That's how I've taught myself to handle things that piss me off on the internet. I also write a heat of the moment response, then don't post it. Go do something else. Come back later and either edit it into politeness or decide that it isn't worth spending any more thought on. It's amazing how often that second option comes up.
An insightful blogpost. I do like to take the pragmatic view of such things. That is to say I don't often care who should be held responsible to fix or resolve something, but instead want to make sure things get resolved with as little fuss as possible. While this philosophy doesn't always serve me well – sometimes a stink is worth being made, after all – it does let me get through life with a lot less stress.
The fact that the situation you've outlined affects the author makes it primarily the author's problem is what I was referring to, in case that was unclear.
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Are you saying that that comment was... teratomable?
Yowza! That author was digging that hole so hard and fast, I think I heard the sound of shovels. I can only hope that I can keep a cooler head in the face of internet butt-facery.
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Can you steal mine? Cheerilee's dating life can only be improved at this point by Amber Spice accidentally burning down the restaurant around their ears!
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Hmm... Maybe I need to go out and hire an angry mob to leave dumb comments on my fics. Then I shall finally be horse famous!
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My first reaction to this was "Wait, Ferret can get angry?" I guess we are all human, after all.
Seriously, though, that's some great advice about letting the rage evaporate from your system before you allow yourself to hit post. I'll have to remember that next time I notice somebody being wrong at me on the internet.
3863855 I'd have to actually write some more Cheerilee dates for that to happen.
Funny thing is, though... I've been thinking about it more and more recently lately.
3863773 What. A. Dick. :P
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I've posted this story a few times, so stop me if you've heard this one. My first fanfic was the first fictional writing I'd done in a decade, and therefore it was understandably rough. I picked up a commenter on EQD who was exactly the kind WD was talking about. He'd just blast the story chapter after chapter, expressing disbelief that he was still following the story, because I had the gall to write it differently than he would have. He was more-or-less my introduction to story commenters, which was a pretty thorough kick to the self-esteem. But I quickly noticed that his comments were long and recurring (demonstrating investment), heavily opinionated (demonstrating I should take them with a grain of salt), and rather disrespectful (demonstrating I had the chance to be the bigger man).
So I got in the habit of replying in detail to his posts, with a bit of explanation of why I did what I did, along with an assessment, like "I can see why you thought of doing X, but Y felt a bit more natural to me" or "this decision should pay off in a future chapter, where I can take things in an interesting direction." I don't know how effective I was in this, but my intention was not to give a kneejerk defensive reaction, or to persuade him that I was right and he was wrong. My intention was to convey that I had given thought, both to the original decision and to his harsh critique. I wanted to demonstrate that I'd been deliberate in my writing, and that even in the face of scrutiny, I could still say that I wasn't careless in my writing choices.
I was able to explain my rationale like this about 95% of the time. The other 5% of the time, I couldn't offer an explanation for why I'd done things my way vs. the commenter's way. Those were valuable, formative experiences.
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Thank you for sharing this. Remembering your audience, and your reason for writing, is paramount. Sorry
I can't really express it in words, but this really struck a chord in me.
3864114 You're welcome, Pav
As it happens, I'm living that advice right now. I had killed a butt-monkey character that nobody at all mourned (except I agonized over it, because I knew what it meant and it was a major step for me). And, since it was a chekov's gun, earlier today I finally killed off a key character (the only one in the position to get a certain pyrrhic victory) that people DID love, because that's what triggered both the end scene and some really heavy interplay between the big bad and none other than Pinkie Pie, which is next week.
In so doing, and especially because I can't follow it right up with the next chapter and the detailed repercussions, it's one of those weeks when some very decent ponies have reason to hate me as a Joss-alike who kills your waifu. Not a George R. R. Martin, it's not nearly that bad! But arguably Joss is worse for not just running amok that way, it's easier when it's just how the writer rolls.
Yet I couldn't have done otherwise past a certain point. You can't always weasel out of choices and meanings and the stakes of the story. In some ways it's my way of saying 'see what happens when you don't care about the buttmonkey dying? He had every bit as bad a time of it but you all just read on. Here, this is what it meant'.
So, having done the polarizing thing, I shall take my lumps, unrepentant. I think the loved character rates a fuss made over her, though, but even then I think I have a point to make. So does the first one.
I guess I'm saying be polarizing when you are damn well committed to the point you're making, and then you accept your fate more bravely.
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Nothing ticks me off more than an internet forum poster who is snarky and condescending rather than outright rude, because that is an insult to my intelligence rather than just an outright insult. The poster assumes he's so above me in wit that I don't immediately notice his snark. Nerdish bullying at its most pathetic.
Most of the times when I'm seen as inflammatory, it's because I respond to these types of insults in kind, when conventional forum wisdom seems to say that snark is acceptable behavior and should not be retaliated against. Ironically, my most-used type of retaliation is simply editing the poster's exact words so that it's used against him rather than for him. And yet, that is apparently "unacceptable".
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Well, the difficulty is that I start out polite and explain what I mean, but then if the person doesn't get it, I have to say the exact same thing again in different words. And sometimes this goes on for a number of comments.
That's when it comes out. If I was smart, I'd just let people go on thinking they totally proved me wrong when they completely missed my point, but... I'm not that good a person.
I run into a lot of new authors or even more veteran authors who don't realize that almost all feedback is constructive in some manner. There's some exceptions, but a lot don't realize that even "This story blows." is feedback you can take and use. It doesn't tell you what is wrong, but it tells you that something is wrong. It serves as some kind of indicator that there may be something which still needs improving in your story. Or at least it does if it happens multiple times.
The second thing I run into a lot in both new and veteran authors is this mentality of "if you're going to downvote my fic, at least leave me a comment saying why, asshole!" The mentality that ratings exist as feedback for them. Comments exist as feedback for them. Reviews exist solely as feedback for them.
Roger Ebert doesn't review films to tell filmmakers what is wrong with their movie. Nor do most other film reviewers. Reviews, ratings, and comments--in my view--are primarily there to serve the readers. It's one of the reasons I try to play "hands-off" with my comments section, only replying to direct questions or when I really want to say something. I see some authors flood their comment section with themselves, replying to every single comment on their fic, and it grosses me out a little bit. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent.
I just think that more authors should realize that readers are in no way obligated to give you feedback nor obligated to make their feedback constructive.
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I don't think that many authors expect every single person to do that, everyone gets an "Awesome story!" or "This story blows." Verbatim, or at least with similar words, it's basically the everyday result of publishing something online, as for downvotes and upvotes, in my opinion, as I said in my blog, they are valid responses whether we authors want it/agree with it... or not..
But there's nothing worse however, than sweeping comments presented as objective criticism. And those instances shouldn't be defended. Sure, "This story blows." might be somewhat useful if that's what everyone or at least the majority of people commenting thinks. It means the author is clearly doing things wrong, but I don't think that—under any circumstances—a "This story blows." in the comments in the middle of vastly superior positive responses is constructive at all... other than indicating that the comment writer is clearly not the target audience for the story.
"I would advise anyone who aspires to a writing career that before developing his talent he would be wise to develop a thick hide." — Harper Lee
I'm scared to venture outside the fimfic playground and get eaten by the sharks over at amazon… but venture I must, soon enough.
3864737
I disagree. Publishing something and not getting any comments is the worst thing. Without any feedback, you don't know how people like or dislike your story. Kinda makes me feel bad for the new guys who struggle to get comments.
Came, read, and left enlightened!
how i see most comments from every tom, dick, and harry:
files.tofugu.com/articles/japanese/2015-05-06-japanese-is-easy/cat-cartoon-grammar.jpg
I know I don't contribute much in terms of feedback, and for that I used to feel bad. i mean, the site gives readers and authors multiple ways of conveying info between one another and the group. I used to use the comment box to justify to the author why i downvoted their story.
do authors enjoy the posts from some users that litteraly show every mis-spelling, sentence structure, and general flow of dialog?
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I'm almost certain I know who you are referring to, and I miss them a lot. They had some great work
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He pushed me to write my first story here, so he'll always have a special place for me. I feel almost silly being nostalgic about it, but that was four years ago, ye gods.
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Depends on the author, and sometimes even on the fic. I know I appreciate it on fics that I spent time on and want to be as good as possible, but on something I just slapped together because I had a silly idea I'm less likely to pay attention. From other writers, I've seen everything from appreciation to outright hostility.
I will say that I appreciate it more in a PM than as a comment on the fic. That way I can fix things without a record of how it used to be messed up.
3864545 While I definitely think its true that readers don't need to give the authors feedback in a constructive manner, I still find the fact that its the authors who have to grow the thick skin somewhat... unfair considering its their work the readers are enjoying. So I think everybody should go ahead and say what they want, but nothing should stop the author for asking for clarification on the reader's comments or expressing from their opinion how said comment offended them... sensibly of course, not in that Anne Rice way.
By extension, I don't see blocking as a problem. There are some really sick people on the internet, which is why the block function exists. It is up to the author on when to use that function, but when it needs to be used to stoop someone ranting on the story and polluting the experience of it for others, it should be used. Of course, when its used to block feedback that simply disagrees with the author, that's wrong an bookplayer listed how it can also hurt the author... which means it all balances itself out.
Meh that's only my opinion though.
"My proletarian and Democratic soul?"
I sincerely hope that was a joke, but given the tenor of the rest of it....
P.S.-- I think I've had blood canticles. In England. They serve them fried, for breakfast. They're pretty good. Oh, and kippers too.
P.P.S. -- one reviewer summarized Lasher rather neatly as a tabloid headline: WOMAN GIVES BIRTH TO 10,000-YEAR-OLD DEMON "And now he's my lover!" sobs distraught mom.
3864806
I appreciate the effort that the poster is going through to help me out, but I personally prefer to give and get that kind of comment in a PM, for
two three four fivesix reasons:1) I believe in the general applicability of the old management rule, 'praise in public, correct in private'. I don't know how much embarrassment the receiver is going to get from the comment in public, I don't know how seeing the correction might color other peoples' perceptions of the author--however subtly--and I don't think it's really necessary to find out.
2) After the issues are fixed, the comment is kind of left hanging there all untidily.
3) I feel like it can get in the way of discussion on the fic itself by making the comments less interesting for other people to read and breaking up discussion. It's not like this is a large effect, but I'm talking about what I prefer, not something I'm going to start a crusade over.
4) Getting a comment is exciting. It being a spelling or grammar comment is a bit of a let-down. I don't have the same kind of emotional pavlovian reaction to PMs.
5) I've had a couple times in the past where the person making the corrections was either straight up wrong (they were not aware of what I thought was a common idiomatic expression, but chose to leave a comment just flatly telling me I was wrong for using it), or treating their own headcanon as actual canon (which is another kind of straight up wrong, I suppose). In both cases, they probably would have been happier to have been wrong in private, instead of in public.
6) I like to be able to pretend I didn't have it messed up in the first place.
Debatably.
3863370
I heard about that, and I'd never read an Anne Rice novel at the time.
3863561
I've had like a handful of people get really upset by my reviews. Only one person went totally psycho on me.
Honestly, people mostly seem scared of me more than anything else.
It's like they think I set people on fire or something.
3864545
I agree. Which is why my reviews are posted in my blog, and I simply leave a link to them in the comments so the author (and others) can find them - ultimately, if a review is meant for potential readers, it doesn't really belong in the comments section of a story at all, because by the time you get to the comments, generally, you've already read the story and it is Too Late. "You shouldn't read this story and here's why" is only useful information before you read a story.
If you're commenting on a story, you're talking either to the author or to fellow readers of the story.
3864737
The Asch Conformity Experiment comes to mind here - people who are willing to speak out against an overwhelmingly positive response are actually really important voices, because they enable others to speak out. Most people won't speak out against the crowd. Going against the grain is hard for most people. So having people willing to say "this story sucks" amidst a sea of praise or "This story was awesome" amongst a sea of criticism is actually very valuable, because it makes it much more likely that other people who have positive/negative opinions - ones against the grain - will comment as well, because the fact that someone else said something means they're now "allowed" to speak up.
3864789
It depends really. I have tried to reel back a bit on some new writers (I didn't review every Scribblefest entry, for instance) because I don't want the ONLY comment they get to be something coming from me with "This story bored me and here's why."
It isn't that I never write such things, but I do try and avoid being the ONLY comment on a story if there are zero other comments and the story is bad.
I don't want someone to feel like their only experience writing fanfiction was that they were a punching bag for a much more experienced writer.
[1]I was going for wenis. Y'know, that skin on your elbow. Jeez. What were you thinking?
3863370
That's crazy! However, what can be angered can be annoyed 
Huh? Ferret? Mad?
Anyways, I've done that before. I sometimes say fairly stupid shit, but frequently I say spectacularly stupid shit that I realize I'll really end up regretting. Like, I feel what I'm about to say is too inane, hurtful, or just plain dumb. I take sometime to rethink what I'm about to say and there are times when I end up changing my whole opinion on the matter. Often, my phone believes it's time that it should flarp up and reload the page, ruining a work in progress comment (phones, Mighty Walls of Text, and web browsers don't mix very well). Then I take the time to retype the comment and word it better.
But often times than not, I simply don't say anything at all; I let it go and don't leave a comment. Heh, I chalk it up to social anxiety usually. Think my comment is far too stupid or too offensive. It's best not to be said at all.
The disadvantage of this is that perhaps what I was going to share with the author might have actually helped them, despite the harsh criticism or bad jokes or offensive ideas. Who knows? Maybe they could've learned from it. Be inspired. Whatever.
I dunno. I'm a very indecisive person.
Ferret, your way of coming back to the comment is quite balanced. But I'd say silence, while extreme, can be still a useful tool (actually, it might be a more useful tool for authors than commenters in a ton of cases). Like, save face. Nobody need know you were going to say anything vitriolic.
Eheh... recently, I commented on a BH story I had last read two or three years ago. It was a random urge. Definitely had time to think on it. Does that still count as revisiting a comment your way? I mean, it wasn't exactly a few hours or a day, but time did pass, and I think that's what counts.
Despite the time away from it, I still think I worded the comment crappily XD
#fluttershy
3863453
That's crazy! Awe man I gotta take advantage of this 
umm err uhh...
Huh? Foamy? Mad?
I love Fleetfoot lots
Not jerk and talk perfect yes?
Her hooves are damn cute
Dude. You gotta stay in theme here, eh? You saw overgrown fangs and overly lengthy hairs upon the palms of that paragraph's hands
3863746
What? So if I publish something and delve into the comments section, I shouldn't keep up the usual online persona I have, which is a fair bit crazier than what I am in real life. I mean, it is totally fun to act stupid cuz lolzorz111!111
Buuut you do have a point. As an author, you do want to be known as being a good person, perhaps even as a swell guy. And especially if you're gonna write about those controversial topics that're totally taboo. Like, people will think that what you're writing is what you adamentally believe in. But that's not the case and you simply want to write something dark in a piece of fiction; you don't necessarily believe in what you write. But fans don't want to necessarily dissociate the artist from the work. Then it becomes quite necessary to be viewed in a more positive light. Provide a bit of damage control proactiveness. Soften people's viewpoint on you.
Role playing yourself as your ideal perfect paragon of predominant positivity. That's quite a strategy I believe very few have considered.
Johnny Misanthrope can be an amusing guy to talk to. Insightful at times, even.
*confused moth noises?*
3863756
If this were the case, she'd totally be pissed. I mean, I do read and comment on clop a bit. So I should picture my super angry and ashamed mom looking over my shoulder as I critique someone's pony sex scene... hmm... still sounds like legit advice.
3865278
British food. I've had a British guy tell me that British food is fail and AIDS, a Texan say it's pretty ok, and you, who says they're pretty good. Like, goooooosh. So many opinions. It hurts my head. What's like, right, man? Is there even such thing as a right? Are they all equally wrong? Maybe they're all equally right. Like... whoa... far out... this is deep...
(I don't know if I'm mocking diverse opinions or embracing them. So many headache voices. Can't decide if it's a good pain or a bad pain.)
3864486
You could simply say nothing at all? ;P I guess it's much harder for people to see from a POV if they find it unconventional, confusing, and strange?
#wayofthefluttershy
O-or you could continue what you're doing. Just play the Duke Nukem theme over your speakers. It's how you make things seem way more badass than they should be. Or Guile's theme. Yeah. Go with Guile's theme. It goes with everything. Why not online debates? Make them more epic.
3867106
Fuuuuuuck. Uhh... this is probably why I don't post the majority of my comments. I am a sheeple baa :B I think I'm coming at things from too much a strange angle, along with being too much an ass.
3867101
Oh no. It is Titty D. Cover your ass and run away. Aah.[/monotone]
It could be worse. Rumours could spread that you find [cover your children's ears ohnoz![1]] to be the most delicious part on a human. Oh. And babies. They're absolutely scrumptious. De-fuckin-lish.
3867170
I'm perfectly on theme. There's been recent evidence of teratomas in werewolves.
And really, if you're going to annoy me, a perfectly formed if grammatically questionable haiku isn't going to do it.
3867101
I think I can count three "upsets". No psychos. I've honestly gotten worse reactions to RCL features than anything I've reviewed. :B
:D
I'm totally adding this to my bucket list.
I really appreciate the wisdom here. There's a prevailing attitude in our culture, I think, that between the offender and the offended, responsibility and moral accountability reside only with the offender. It's a nuanced issue and I want to be careful, but it's easy to fall into a victimhood where the answer to your happiness or contentment lies solely in the actions of others. Only the offending side needs to make adjustments, not you.
And I'll admit: few things feel as good as getting in a real good zinger in an argument, online or off. But I always end up regretting it, because we all know the truth: on a forum we aren't arguing with the other person, we're arguing to the audience why they shouldn't listen to that person. We're all on a stage and we act like it. I do, at least. Otherwise, why not go straight to private message, or simply leave things be--does a different or wrong opinion really matter? Ah but then people might read that idiot's comment and agree with it, and think you're the idiot. I can't have that. And so I respond.
This doesn't apply to all interactions, of course, but plenty enough.
Ha ha ha ! Anne Rice thinks she's proletariat. I'm sorry, I know that wasn't the thing I was supposed to get out of this discussion, but that was priceless IMHO. Then again who knows, I've often been forced into the 'leisure class' by people who thought themselves my betters. Maybe I'll luck into fortune and fame with my less than typical lower middle class upbringing. Then again I've always considered myself a capitalist despite people often hearing the word opportunist or thinking my work borderline Marxist. And, I have been compared to Millie from Ozy and Millie despite the fact I didn't quite catch the link as much as I enjoyed reading the comic.
3864737 3864789 I'm more on Wanderer's side here, but I can see Abyss's point, lack of feedback can be bad... Though I'm surprised you're saying that of all people Abyss, considering that some of the feedback on your chapter for I'll Do Anything for You (When IS that getting updated anyway?) was REALLY harsh.
What i'm more interested in (and I've asked you on this Wanderer, thanks for your blogs on this issue, they've given me some guidance)... and i'd like Bookplayer's opinion on this if he's reading (3863495 ), are comments that mainly complain about story direction and when they won't stop. (see here if you are interested as to the nature of the comments (i admit, I perhaps didn't respond completely in a perfectly calm manner in some cases and neither did my editor, but we kinda got sick and tired of people telling us what they thought we should do in sometimes incredibly pretentious ways).
What does an author do when you think the story is going the way you want, and your ratings seem to be fine on that, but there appears to be a group that just goes on, and on, and on about how they don't like what they're seeing and how it's "absolute" and thereby are being... well pretentious. Wanderer you made your blog post about it saying they should limit themselves to "sorry I don't like" and I completely agree, but some people aren't going to do that... so what should an author do in that case? Some have told me to grow a thicker skin. Bookplayer and Abyss, you said feedback is good, which I agree, but it's bloody difficult to keep reading the same complaints again and again when you have an internal reason as to why but can't reveal it or you'll spoil and there's no point to revealing it because people... well are probably going to keep disagreeing with it.
Seriously, I'd like an answer because at times I feel like i'm at the end of my tether.