Could I Ask The Advice Of A French Speaker? · 2:58am Mar 16th, 2016
Hey folks. So... I have a problem.
I am, regrettably, just a monologuist.
My problem is... I have a character who I enjoy having slip into french from time to time for endearments, or when she cannot think of a word.
"Hello, mes amies! L'auteur est un peu dense. Help him, s'il vous plaît?"
Thank you, Fleur. 
Google is less than helpful when it comes to proper structure of the language. Something as simple as "my friend" being "mon amie" will tend to be wrong in most cases, because the speaker is Fleur De Lis, and in the vast majority of instances, she's addressing females. But she is married to Fancy Pants, who is not.
So... in instances of the sex of a phrase, I was given to understand that it mattered who was addressing whom, but I had thought it mattered who the speaker was, thus when Fleur speaks to Fancy, she is a female, and he becomes ma coeur.
A recent comment told me otherwise, and... I am confused again.
So, who matters, the speaker, or the subject?
My French is limited, and mostly lost to disuse, but this is the best I can recall/easily look up:
French has gendered pronouns for both the speaker and the subject. Normally, "ma" is "my" for a female speaker, while "mon" is "my" for a male speaker. However, if the noun begins with a vowel (such as ami/amie, (male/female) "friend"), you always use mon. As well, plural pronouns are the same regardless if they refer to an all-male, all-female, or mixed group.
And "my friend" being "mon ami" is generally right for either sex referring to a male, while "mon amie" is generally right for either sex referring to a female.
Not sure if this helped much, but I learned this stuff 12 years ago.
I've never heard Coeur as a term of endearment, its usually "cheri/cherie", or "amour", which is genderless. The gender of the subject matters if you are using a word to describe them that can have genders. That's why the possessive term is the same gender as the speaker as in "mon" or "ma", and the descriptive term matches the gender of the subject, like "ami" or "amie"
3810426 Well... other ponies might be friends, but for Fleur, Fancy Pants is quite literally her heart. He was the first pony she truly loved. Thus her endearment specifically for him.
3810400 From a french speaker here, that's correct. but plural pronouns can be genderless or gendered too and it's going to be technical depending on the phrase.
3810426 Chéri/chérie is definitevely more used. Referring someone as ''mon coeur'' is similar as using ''my love''. Except it's mostly used by women, about/to their husband.
3810450 Okay, but would it always be mon coeur? In the instance of Fleur, referring to Fancy as ma coeur, when she quite literally is referring to him as her heart, does it matter more that she is addressing him, being a male, or addressing him as her heart (IE, a female heart, ma coeur) which would be correct in that instance?
3810460 it would still be ''mon coeur''. Simply because the word ''coeur'' is a male gendered noun in french, it disregard the gender of the speaker in this case. Complicated? yes, even for a native french.
I'm no help, but may I say that she is looking truly sexy like that, cartoon unicorn notwithstanding?
3810473 SIgh.
I'm sorry, Fleur, I have failed you again.
Gender is something that, in a lot of cases, is very strict and limited to one. Some words, like professions, can take either, but as a general rule, this is not the case. It was something that annoyed me a lot at first, too--I found it especially weird how une bébé is always grammatically incorrect, even if the baby is a girl.
As a French major in college, I hope this helps.
3810486 The language seems a bit sexist, doesn't it? I rather liked hearing that simple words had sexes, thus by using a specific sex that is perhaps nonstandard, the fact that she refers to him as ma cœur versus mon cœur had meaning for her, because she is referring to him as... Well, I'll share this little tidbit...
But as it turns out, what I assumed was a romantic and special endearment is just... wrong. Ah well.
3810481 Why yes, yes she is.
3810460
My French is at a High School level, so I'd check with an actual native speaker, but from what I remember, when it comes to possessive pronouns (mon, ma, mes, ton, ta tes, etc.) the gender of the subject/speaker doesn't matter at all, only the object. And it is the word itself that has a gender, not what it represents. For example, the word coeur has a gender (male, IIRC), which is independent of the gender of the hearts owner, so Fleur would always say "mon coeur." Same goes with all other body parts and most other nouns - each body part or other noun has an associated gender which is always used when deciding what possessive pronoun to use, regardless of whom it is referring to. And of course, when using a plural noun, you always use mes/tes/etc. regardless of gender.
The part that is probably tripping you up is that for nouns that refer to people (and not parts of them), there are often multiple forms of the same word that depend on gender (ami/amie, cousin/cousine,etc.), and each of these words has a different gender (cousin is male, cousine is female), so when using these words the gender of whom you are addressing matters, but only because it determines which form of the object word you use. Also, I'm not sure about this, but it may be possible for both gendered versions to have the same spelling but require using the appropriate possessive depending on which gender you used.
Finally, there is the additional rule that if a word starts with a vowel sound, replace ma with mon always. (Similar to how we use the article "an" instead of "a").
So to summarize, this is a basic checklist of gender/number possessives:
1. Is it a plural noun? If yes, then use the plural possessive. (mes,tes,ses).
2. Does the word begin with a vowel sound (not necessarily just a vowel - heure would be considered to start with a vowel sound because the h is silent)? If so, the use the male possessive (mon,ton,son).
3. Does the word have a male and a female version? If not, then find out the sole gender of that word and use the appropriate possessive. If it does, then use the version of the word that matches the gender of the object and then use the appropriate possessive.
In all cases, the speaker/subject does not matter at all when it comes to gender/number, only the object.
Where the subject does matter is when determining "person" i.e. first person singular, second person plural, etc, which in turns determines which set of possessives to use. The full chart can be found here: http://www.frenchtutorial.com/en/learn-french/possessive/adjectives.
A few notes about that chart: first of all, the top row (masculine, feminine, plural), only refers to the gender/number object, and is independent of the subject (unless the choice of subject somehow determines the choice of object). The leftmost column only refers to the number/perspective of the subject, and is independent of the object. Also, for the plural subjects (we, y'all, they), the two gendered possessives are the same, so the gender of the object doesn't matter.
Finally, my last note is that gendered nouns are a really finnicky thing in French, and as a non-native speaker, I was constantly screwing it up. I'd recommend finding a French-speaker to go over your grammar anyways before publishing.
3810503 And I will also say, for the purpose of certain storytelling, that I feel jealousy towards Fancy Pants, another cartoon unicorn, for being her husband.
3810499
A more appropriate endearment here might be mon grand amour (my great love) which would be the equivalent of "the love of my life" in English.
When she is taking to Fancy in general, I'd use mon chéri (my darling), and to any of her close female friends use ma chérie (my darling) or if you want something a little less affectionate then ma chère (my dear)... just think about if Rarity in the same situation would use "darling" or "dear".
Honestly though, I think mon coeur is fine, it works perfectly well if you are making it a particular affectation of hers.
3810535 It's something that has a lot of meaning for her, yes.
Sorry I only speak sensible languages like Quenya, Rylehian, and backwoods argot
im sorry to beeing the party pooper, but as a french speaker myself, dont even bother, you're wasting your time XD
3810650 As another french speaker who reads the story, he should spend the time. Seeing the mistakes in the middle of the fic is jarring and ruins immersion :P
Steel:
Others have answered with the corrections, but other options: Mon cher (Fleur -> Fancy), Ma chère (Fancy -> Fleur), Mon chéri (Fleur -> Fancy), Ma chérie (Fancy -> Fleur).
3810664 The annoying thing is, I have been checking and double checking, which is why I say google is a pain in the ass when it comes to advice on structure.
3810664 And for Fleur to a female?
3810650 As much as I wish I could accept that, I am writing for a character that is fluent in a language I am not. While I don't have time to study french in its entirety, I am trying to use it correctly for what I am doing. I can't just not care. But thank you for responding at least. I'll take that as a compliment that what I have been doing is at least close enough for you.
3810697 trust me french is not worth putting so much effort into it, im 21 years ols and im still learning how to write it, but if you insist, i can proof-read for you, and make the apropriate corrections (i do that every single day if that can help)
and to come to your original question, even is fleur is a female, in the case of ''mon coeur'' you cant change the gender as coeur is an invariable masculine noun, its always stays like that no matter what, unless you accord it properly that is.
also a computer cant help you with french sentence structure, there's too much to it! again if you really wish a french character in your story, im offering my help
3810693
Ma chère or Ma chérie. The speaker's gender is irrelevant, only the one he/she is addressing. A male or a female (or something without gender) addressing a female would always use Ma chère or Ma chérie, while a male or female addressing a male would use Mon cher or Mon chéri.
A female is a chère or chérie, and a male is a cher or chéri, in the same way that a male is a policeman, and a female is a policewoman. The fact that the speaker has a gender does not affect whether or not they use policeman or policewoman to refer to the person standing next to them.
Are you talking about determinants (Mon, Ma, Ton, Ta, Leur, etc.)? Cause that depends strictly on the word it precedes. "Mon ami" or "Ma amie" referring respectively to a friend who's a guy and a girl.
Every noun in french has a gender associated with it, with the occasional few that can be modified (case in point, ami vs amie). I'm afraid if you want to be certain of the correct gender reference, you'll have to use a dictionary.
I personally use this online dictionary (though the site is in french, it shouldn't be too difficult to use anyway though).
From my knowledge of French, it is universally the object as opposed to the speaker.
When addressing people, it's quite simple:
- All male? Male form
- Mixed? Male form
- All female? Female form.
In terms of objects, though, it's more difficult. In the example you gave, though:
Since it's Fleur's heart, you are tempted to use feminine form. But she's addressing Fancy, who is male. Neither of these matter, though, because she's talking about an object. This means you use the gender of the object, rather than a person. Hearts are male, therefore, it would be mon coeur. Irritatingly, there is no gender-neutral 'it'.
By the way, if you'd like help with this sort of thing in future, I'd love to be of assistance.
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Thanks to all of you. You know, it's funny, I took Latin and Spanish in school, and remember so very little, but just through constant attempts not to mess up simple phrasing I am slowly coming to understand the basics of a language I never even tried to study. The things you learn for stories...
3812846 sure thing, if there's anything else, go ahead and ask!
Related: Not a single francophone I know understands why their language is the way it is (specific gendered objects, etc), they just kind of go with it, and don't think about it. Even going so far sometimes as to use the wrong gendered noun or make shit up. I have heard some pretty silly things come out of native french speakers mouths...