Is the Asian ban on dating pop stars akin to why we hate Flash Sentry? · 9:20pm Feb 26th, 2016
So RadioLab put out a fantastic episode of their podcast the other day all about K-Pop stars. These are girls that from a young age are put under a contract and trained night and day to become teen pop sensations. They put in long hours, go through diets, dance routines and the gamut of all kinds of beautification techniques. But part of their contract is that they do not date or get married or have any romantic relations at all.
There’s an economic reason for that. The (predominantly) male demographic that consumes the media these idols make do NOT like them dating. The RadioLab story told about how it got leaked that one of these idols had had a relationship, and the popularity of that singer dropped considerably.
Why?
Because it removes the fantasy. The male audience can daydream about these girls possibly being with them because their available. The entire industry is fueled by this fantasy of absurdly cute girls that are unavailable—but still—there might be a "chance."
So when one of these cute girls says something like: “I’ve never been kissed.” There’s a small feeling in their audience’s mind that fantasizes “What if I was her first kiss?” It's never going to happen, but there’s a monetary value in being able to have that fantasy.
And this isn’t just Korea, Japan has this culture of virgin pop stars as well. And there are boy bands that are also put under the same “do-not-date” scrutiny.
From my western perspective, this behavior seems bizarre to me. Why should it matter if a singer you listen to is dating/married? Shouldn’t you be happy for them? Why does the monetary value of a pop singer depend on whether she is “available” or not?
But this got me thinking: where do I see this behavior in western culture? I have a firm belief that humans have been humans for a long time and we really aren’t that different from each other. So this sentiment should be expressed in some way in the western world as well. Right?
And then it hit me: Flash Sentry.
Admit it. You hate this guy.
My Little Pony makes no effort to disguise that it’s not a fantasy. It’s a cartoon about horses. But there is still this mild idea that these girls ponies don’t date. That they are pure. And that something would be lost if these characters were to find love.
There is a brony subculture that likes the idea of treating MLP like some kind of dating sim. Here are all these nice girls and wouldn’t it be nice to be around them?
But, if they were to have an on-screen boyfriend, would the “popularity” of that character drop?
I feel like we saw this with Flash Sentry. Twilight was our wonderful adorkable girl we liked and possibly fantasized about, but then this other guy came on the scene and ruined our (already impossible) chances.
The point I’m trying to make here is that maybe we’re not so different from the guys that worship these K-Pop idols. Would we feel betrayed if all the mane six suddenly started being romantically involved with somepony? Would the popularity of the show go down because even though we know this is a fantasy, we still had entertaining thoughts elsewhere?
Or am I totally wrong?
I’d love to hear y’alls thoughts.
For my part - not at all. As you say, the idea of a female character being in a relationship ruining the fantasy is absurd to me. Sunset may be my waifu, but like I care if she hooks up with another character or not.
The problem with Flash Sentry is that he was needlessly tacked onto Equestria Girls. He had very little character besides being a nice guy who was cute and played guitar. He did nothing to justify Twilight's romantic interest in him (especially since you wouldn't expect a pony to find a human physically attractive), his role in the first film was superfluous, and he was overall just a void of a character.
That said, I don't hate him, personally. I just don't care for him because the show has yet to give me a reason why I should.
I don't hate Flash Sentry, I merely deeply dislike that he exists. Why?
Because not every female character needs a love interest. Sure, some of them can not date. On the other hand, I find it downright weird that Rarity hasn't been seen with love-interests, nor Applejack or Rainbow Dash. Fluttershy could very well find love, but it would be very difficult because she's so withdrawn. Pinkie Pie is the only one I really can't imagine dating ever, because she's an eldritch abomination.
Because he's nothing like Twilight Sparkle, but he's very much like Hasbro's stereotyped, uninformed slop of what kinds of boys a girl ought to like: the "cool kids" in high school.
Problem is, I know lots of young women of the Twilight Sparkle type, and none of them are into that type. At all.
Flash Sentry is Hasbro pedalling fixed and archaic personality types and gender roles to the kids, kinda like when they retconned Shining Armor into existence. It's something they often do with this show, but the show damn well suffers for it (notice how Flash Sentry and Shining Armor aren't even that different: they aren't allowed to come up with more than one male-MC personality type). It's not what Lauren Faust was doing when she wrote an ensemble show with six very different personalities.
Twilight can totally have a boyfriend. I just want it to be someone she'd actually like for her own in-character reasons, rather than someone concocted to be What Little Girls Ought to Like. Past that, hey, if his only function in life is measuring the heights of corn stalks and cataloguing corn varieties, go ahead.
I feel like I should add Lyra and Bon-Bon to the discussion. I don't think it's counter-evidence; if anything, it might back up your thesis, because the fans who care about shipping now can point to perceived evidence that MLP is a universe in which relationships happen, but because that evidence comes from background ponies, it doesn't threaten any existing fantasies.
On the other hoof, Twilight isn't everyone's waifu. My EqG-verse waifu is Sunset, and she is canonically Flash's ex, and the thought of them hooking back up now that she's reformed wouldn't bother me nearly as much as Flashlight even though I feel a lot more strongly about Sunset than Twilight. I think this gets back to what 3778983 and 3778948 were saying: Flashlight makes no sense and disempowers Twilight and reinforces the harmful message that young womens' value is tied up in their dateability. When Sunset dated Flash, she was explicitly playing power games in the school and making a move for the popular guy; the fact that they were together made sense, and the fact that they broke up is probably the strongest evidence we have of actual likability in Flash's otherwise pablum character. "I didn't deserve you, look at how I've changed, will you give me a second chance" would be actual character development, and a chance to see what made them work in the first place. I'll accept waifu theft for that, but not for a paint-by-numbers one-sided relationship with misogynist implications.
For a western pop music example of something similar, look at Britney Spears in her innocent college girl, keep herself for marriage phase, all the while having album covers like this:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/..._Baby_One_More_Time_%28album%29.png
(And now google will think I am obsessed with her or something...)
There were plenty of negative reactions when she started being "caught" dating, or doing other adult stuff.
Also, this
is too reductive. The bigger issue is that these girls are idealized as innocent and pure, and that they accept they accept a strict series of restrictions when applying. You see similar reactions when they are caught drinking or smoking, for instance. And don't forget how big these countries are on adherence to laws.
And 3778983 says it all regarding Flash Sentry.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. That's what all those posts about "Flash Sentry being a waifu-stealer" were about. It only makes sense if Twilight was your waifu in the first place.
I've heard the excuse that "I hate Flash Sentry because he's cardboard-thin and has no real personality, he's basically a background-character." Therefore they refuse to read stories about Flash Sentry that try to flesh him out. But the same people who say that also seem to love Derpy and Lyra and the Doctor, who before Slice of Life we had seen a lot less of than Flash Sentry. So it seems to me "background pony" and "no defining character traits" only really becomes an issue when the character in question is in danger of starting a romantic relationship with one's waifu.
I also notice that there are a lot of fans who seem less bothered by the idea of a same-sex relationship with their waifu than a cross-sex relationship. Maybe this is because there are so many different well-developed female characters, or maybe it's because male fans feel less threatened by their waifu courting another female. It's too bad non of the K-Pop Stars dated another girl, that would be a fascinating social experiment to watch.
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Especially treating MLPFiM as a dating sim. <.<
I can give you an example from western culture: American Idol. My wife has been a fan of one of this year's contestants for several years, and up until he got on American Idol, almost no one had ever heard of him. I know he's dated at least two girls since he started making music (one of whom he has written some less-than-flattering songs about, and one of whom he is still with), and even if he wasn't actively publicizing the fact that he was dating them, he at least wasn't actively keeping the relationships secret. But apparently ever since he got on American Idol, he has not been allowed to say anything about his girlfriend, because apparently it might make him less popular with the teenage girls. And seeing how those teenage girls have been constantly throwing themselves at him via twitter ever since he first appeared on the show, I believe it.
As for Flash Sentry, I can certainly believe that that is why some people hate Flash. For others it's because it's shipping Twilight with anyone besides Rainbow/Luna/whoever their OTP is. Others hate him just because they shipped Twilight with a male.
But some of us actually just don't like him because he was a one-dimensional stereotype who only existed to be forced into a relationship that didn't make any sense in a terrible movie. It doesn't always need to be overanalyzed.
(Personally, I have come around to kind of liking Flash, but only because now that Princess Big Mac is canon, M.A. Larson has turned Flash Sentry into a new running joke.)
3778948 , 3778983 3779087 So if I could sum up your reasons for disliking Flash. It's not about Twilight being in a relationship with someone, it's about her being in a relationship that is completely wrong for her. Which I agree with. Band-popular-guy human Flash Sentry... isn't a good fit for Twilight. And having such a one dimensional male character is not a good fit for MLP in general because we're used to rich, fascinating characters.
But I also like what 3779117 said about background ponies. I for one love pony Flash Sentry. We know nothing about him. He's a blank slate. And that just makes me curious as to what kind of stallion he could be. He might be a good fit for pony Twilight... but we just don't know.
3779115
Wait, is that something that really happens with pop stars in the west? I thought everyone was just weirded out how—like Miley Cyrus—Britney Spears got really blatant. But she could at least date privately... right?
3779244
Okay! This does happen in the west as well.
It's not to the extent that dating is forbidden, but that having fans know your in a relationship is bad for the "brand." Interesting.
3778983
That is so simultaneously funny and sad
3779232
I feel like there may be some "anti-romance for the mane six" sentimentality. But it's not the ultimate factor in the dislike; it's just one of the contributing factors among some bronies.
3779518 You know, I've heard that one before: Flash Sentry is a popular kid who's also a musician, so he's totally wrong for Twilight Sparkle. It's certainly the most coherent and logical argument I've heard so far. But again, some of the same people I have seen making that argument love reading stories shipping Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle, or Applejack and Rarity. Apparently contrasting interests and personality types is considered a bonus for most romance stories.
Ok, now you've got me curious: If Flash Sentry had been replaced with Micro Chips in the first movie, with the same amount of scenes and dialogue, do you think it would have made a difference in the public's reaction to him? I'm not really sure myself.
You might be onto something about Flash Sentry.
It is sad that these women gave up the greatest pleasure humans can experience. This is going to get be in trouble, but I feel that it would a good idea to randomly pair off teenagers boy-girl (or whatever-whatever the child prefers) at puberty and let them have sex. Sexual pleasure is the best thing ever, and it is cruel to deny it to anyone except criminals:
Instead, we sexually mutilate the genitals of about ¼ of boy and about 5% of girls. We should ban sexual genital mutilation of boys, girls, and intersexed.*
* Intersexed are children born with ambiguous genitals. Freaked out parents and doctors routinely ablate the external genitally, thus leaving the children incapable of ever achieving orgasm. Medical procedures for legitimate problems associated with ambiguous genitals are necessary, but these procedures should preserve sensation as much as possible. For functioning sexually as an adult (the neutered children with all external geniality ablated are not suppose to or expected to function sexually as an adult at all), one will have to make them either male or female, but one should delay this final step as much as possible for receiving input from the child.
The last time I wrote the following, people misconstrued it. Please read all before responding:
We make the institutionalized mentally and physically disabled live decades until they die from natural causes as lifetime virgins. It would be more humane to just shoot them.
I do not advocate shooting them. I advocate letting them have sex. It being more humane to shoot them than slowly torturing them, by denying them sexual pleasure, is a fact. If one thinks about it, these institutionalized physically and mentally disabled are, in essence, a prison for their entire lives, where we deny them sex. We slowly torture the institutionalized mentally and physically disabled by not letting them have sex. I advocate letting them have sex with each other, with contraception.
In some other countries, they even hire prostitutes or have women performing community service have sex the mentally and physically disabled who cannot have an active role in sex, thus being totally dependent on others for sexual relief. We should do likewise here.
Edited to add that whoever downvoted this comment is mentally ill:
You believe that
* We should sexually mutilate the genitals of girls, intersexed, and boys.
* We should not allow the institutionalized mentally and physically disabled to ever have sex.
You need therapy.
3779117
No. It seems that I shall have to be Captain Obvious. This is the real reason:
The male fans imagine the 2 mares as bisexuals looking for a stallion. They imagine themselves as the stallion. If chosen, they must watch the mares haves sex with each other at least once daily and have sex with each mare at least once daily, for a total number of times of having sex with the mares of no less than twice daily.
3779701
I feel like there's a bit of "brother" syndrome when it comes to "allowing" these characters to have romantic relationships.
We want to meet this guy. We want to get to know him, know how he ticks, spend time with him and formulate our own opinions on whether they would be a good fit for this character we've spent a lot of time with. We want to give our say in the matter and have the characters hear our reasoning on why this boyfriend is a good or bad idea and why.
But that really is impossible on so many levels.
I dunno, I have two sisters that both got married to guys I didn't know while I was living overseas. When I got backed and actually met my new brother-in-laws, I kind of twisted my head sideways in confusion like: "Really? This is who makes you happy? I... don't get it. My mental image of you doesn't match up with what led you to this conclusion." But I'm slowly warming up to my new brother in laws. And besides, it doesn't matter, it's not my decision. And my sisters are happy. And really, that's what matters the most :)
Getting back to your question, if it really was "Micro Chips" instead of "Flash" with the same amount of dialogue. I think he'd still have the same amount of hatred. Because of the "same amount of dialogue" issue. We simply haven't spent enough time to formulate enough opinions about him. We've had hundreds of episodes with our Mane 6, but any new character that gets introduced takes a while to warm up to, especially if said character is supposed to be involved in a romantic way.
But I don't think anyone at the staff of the show really knows how to write romance in a way besides Flash Sentry-style mildly dorky. If they did, we'd see more Cadence and Shining Armor interaction, or maybe the Cakes. If they could carefully handle romance, I can see it going over well. At least I'd love it.
But a part of me thinks this K-Pop "availability" thing is so deeply ingrained in our minds that no matter what the staff does, they won't be able to make it work. Which is kind of sad. So Hasbro—like K-Pop managers—for financial reasons will keep these characters single.
3779701 Now I'm looking through that entire list and wishing they would bother to make up some characters who aren't total stereotypes.
3780421
If Twilight Sparkle suddenly grew a decidedly un-cute, un-sisterly sense of sexuality and jumped the bones of Flash Sentry just because she decided she was hot, I swear I'd be ok with that, provided they wrote it well as an addition to her character.
Hell, if you write it as, "Stallions are nowhere near as important as BOOKS and FRIENDSHIP, so Twi just swipes through Tindr whenever she wants to get laid and has no-strings-attached hot sex with whoever she wants except the viewer, whom she hates", it can still be written well. Probably.
Actually, minus the snark about the viewer, that's very close to my headcanon for Princess Celestia. That mare needs to unwind, and "Celestia gets drunk" fanfics are hysterical.
This is probably the real problem. They just can't write a realistic, well-handled relationship with anyone without violating the constraints of their G-rating imposed by Hasbro.
3780421 That's starting to sound like the same thing people said about Starlight Glimmer and how they felt her reformation was so rushed.
I think you've nailed it with the protective-older-brother angle. People are very angsty when any kind of change happens rapidly to the lives of the mane 6, especially when the character acting as the catalyst for change is introduced fairly quickly, which in practical terms is a constraint of the show. It seems like to keep the fans happy, Hasbro would either have to have no changes at all, or devote so much screen time to telegraphing the changes that it eats up every other type of plot and episode, so they will probably stick with the first choice.
Remember back in the days with the Canterlot Wedding, people felt Cadance was a Mary Sue and Shining Armor came out of nowhere. I want you to imagine if they had actually introduced Princess Cadance briefly at the beginning of the series, had her make a cameo in Best Night Ever and maybe Return of Harmony and/or Sweet and Elite. Now imagine if the Canterlot Wedding had still gone forward, with Shining Armor still this brand new brother of Twilight's now marrying the Princess we've already known/written self-insert romantic fanfic about. How much do you think the fandom would loathe Shining Armor with every fiber of our beings?
It may well be like this for some people, but most of the hate he gets it's because it's a tacked in love interest that was utterly unneeded, which reeked of executive meddling and went contrary to the very spirit of the series of going against the common tropes of the genre