NegotiationVerse: Need Your Help · 6:55pm Jan 25th, 2016
So, I need the help of those who have read Negotiations and Reunited. Before I say anything, yes I am planning to put out the next fic "Truths" out in late February/Early March. I've run into a snag while developing some aspects of Equestrian culture for the future fics of this six one shot series. Specifically, the religious aspect of Equestria.
Now, this isn't a debate on religion or anything, nor is this to promote any sort of agenda. The thing is, all civilizations have some sort of religious or spiritualist side to them that plays a part in their culture. This is no different for modern civilizations today. Whether you are religious or not, you cannot deny that religion plays an impact in our society. As such, if I'm going to make Equestria feel like a society I need to give it some kind of religious part of their culture. Normally, this isn't a problem for me, but this Equestria is different then the ones I've used before so I don't know what direction to take it in. As such, I decided to ask your help. This isn't some big choice that will change the story, its just a detail I want to add to make it seem more realistic.
There will be no debating or arguing about religion itself. So no bashing it, no promoting it, nothing to address the social issues of religion and secularism we are dealing with in our world today. If you want you can give your reasoning for why the choice you made is yours, but do not attack, question, or argue with a person opposite of your choice. Failing to do so will have your comment deleted and your vote counted off. Continue to do so and I will ban you. I want respect here people.
Please vote the following of what I should do for Equestria's religious aspect:
A. Princess Worship: Because of their ability to move the son and moon, Celestia and Luna are seen as living goddesses who are worshiped and invoked with religious fanaticism from their subjects. To even deny them of being goddesses is heresy in the eyes of Equestrians. Cadance and Twilight, despite their alicorn status, are only seen as demi-gods. Beings who were given a god like status but retain their mortality. Never the less they are seen as important figures. Rituals, holidays, and religious services are invoked in their names. It is believed that they send the souls of the dead to a paradise that awaits those who worship them, while those who committed horrible crimes are left to wander in the void.
B. The Creator: It has many names: God, Faust, The Great Spirit, The First Being, but they all know it as the creator. Taking in many forms, in many names, it created all of the world with its great power. The skies, the earth, the rivers and heavens. It crafted each species with purpose and allowed them to prosper in it's name. It gave its rules to priests and priestess, its book, the Lexicanum of Harmony, spreading to all four corners of the world. The one faith that all around the world worships differently, yet all worship the Creator as their one true god.
C. Magic is God: Magic is everywhere, it is the creation of the universe, the force that gives us life. From magic we are born, from magic we return to, from magic we are reborn again. Like the concept of Daoism, there are two great forces (Good and Evil) that create magic and balance the world, this is harmony. All life begins and ends with magic and while there is no sense of out right worship, magic is seen as the living energy force of the world and what we all become in the end before rebirth.
D. Atheist State: When the gods failed to save the ponies from The Great Winter, they casted off their religious believes in favor of logic. Advancement in science and magic has brought them great knowledge and achievement without the need of miracles or prayers. Advancing so far to control the sun and moon, they have become greater then the gods and cast off the superstitious nonsense of the past, dismissing those who have such beliefs.
E. All Of the Above: All four together along with a few others. A land of multi-faiths and beliefs.
Personally, I'll go with options B. It was never in my mind that Equestrians worshiped the princesses, even though they seem like demigods, but that's just me and my silly headcanon.
Also option C, because I see friendship, harmony, and magic sort of like the Force from Star Wars, but again, that's just me talking. I'm not fully immersed in the MLP lore as I'd like to be.
i pick either b or d
See the way you set these up already sounds like a multi-faithed land. Because no one of those truly covers the entire area. A can't completely hold water because there are just a -few- places magic can't touch even in Equestria so not all would follow that. B makes the most sense as a collective but this land especially with what has happened seems much more divided when it comes to it. C is one the easiest to spread but can easily act as a buffer or addition to B though it also has the ability to stand alone. D straight up sounds like an anti Equestria in a neighboring land. I'm thinking your best bet would actually be a land filled with both A/B and you can make C the element with which The Creator guides them.
I vote for C: "Magic is god." All the fics I have read on this site have beaten/explored to death both options A/B. This universe you are crafting would be more engrossing if you could explore equestrian culture in a new way. At the moment I cannot think of any other fics who have ponies look at magic as essentially "The Force".
If Magic is the God of ponies, it would also give Celestia a good rationale for the Equestrian Public to invade Earth. Assuming humans don't have access to magic, humans could be seen as unclean, heretical creatures. Most of Equestria would be okay with starting a holy war if this was true.
An atheist state would possibly be the second best option. It again gives equestrians a rationale to invade Earth. All of Earth's religions would disgust ponies and Humanity would be seen as savage, backwards people. The issue with this beleif system would be: the multiple instances in The Show of ponies saying "thank celestia" as if she is some kind of deity or prophet of some deity. Two: it seems that multiple times in the show, the ponies give in to the power of beleif/friendship. The prime example is when Cadance and Shining Armor banish the changelings. It seemed that Twilight was living on a prayer that Cadance could somehow find a way to get rid of the changelings when Twilight freed Cadance.
The last option just seems too muddy and could be more difficult to write. Trying to incorporate all the cultures into one could lose the focus of whatever theme/tone of the story you try to push.
E? I guess?
My vote is for A, Princess Worship. I feel that it fits in the world better even if the Princess are not god its logical to think that many pony would still see them like that due to their immortality and control over the sun and moon.
I've always been a fan of both B and C. There was a Creator in the beginning but in order to have everything maintain itself, it gave a part of itself to the universe and that essence took the form of mana or magic.
I think option E is he best bet as it best represents real life. With Luna's death it will be a crisis of faith for the ponies at accept her godhood.
For this story I would probably say A and B mainly (states can have more than one official religion) but C is also very interesting as religion that can be worshiped by non pony countries.
I'd say that from what I see in the show comics and the journal of the two sisters there is no actual religion, there is of course an overriding ideology in harmony, which some might take to mean the society is more C than A and D ties into C nicely. I think it is a mix of A,C and D
for A we see a lot of the princesses being revered to the point that Celestia's name is taken in vain (dear sweet celestia, with celestia as my witness and oh my celestia etc.) despite concerted efforts by the princesses to dissuade ponies viewing them as goddesses, in journal of the two sisters we learn that the two sisters were born into alicorn society in canterlot hills (before founding making canterlot an originally alicorn city) and raised to learn the royal canterlot voice and magic. that alicorns as a whole have a longevity similar to tolkien's elves. but the spell created by starswirl the bearded which with unicorns steals their magic with it's use and for alicorns empowers and rejuvenates them for all intents and purposes immortal, this further explains why Twilight and Cadance will age normally instead of being immortal.
for C we have the whole harmony , chaos, love, friendship and alicorn and crystal magic and changeling magic and zebra magic.
alicorns are embodiments of friendship love and harmony. [sic journal of the two sisters] and then we have a being that represents chaos the draconequus discord. through out the series friendship and harmony are tenants that Celestia actively tries to cement in ponies, love tends to land by the wayside as hasbro dares not properly ship characters either because they'd piss of mothers or because the fandom just wont like it because we disagree a lot on who should be shipped.
for D well aside from the above and the weird random reverend pony in the song best stallion. There is no actual religion that we can see, in fact most of the cast puts a lot of stock in logic and reason especially Twilight. Pinkie doesn't count because she is an anomaly. but generally the looks to not actively worship anything.
so considering all three examples i have provided for each vote a mix of a,c,d makes sense. an alternate could be that there is no one religion and everypony is free to worship as they please with Celestia actively discouraging it in the face of logic and reason.
but you have a huge problem, the fact that your negotiations verse is based on conversion bureau lore so my input maybe mute considering all that I haven't read them, though i know the basic premise from other fics that have crossed over with it somehow.
You can always just use an expanded mysticism as a Philosophy based religion, similar to Buddhism. Though that hinges on just how knowledge you are with mideval mysticism.
Something to think about anyways.
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Buddhism is more philosophic then religious, but it still believes in the concept of reincarnation. It's similar to the C choice.
I vote E since it's the one that makes the most sense. One could point out since this Earth and Equestria were from 2 separate universes rather than how Equestria and Equestrian Earth were given the EQG thing, that they each have a Creator God/Goddess. Earth's being GOD himself and Equestria's being the Princesses very mother Fausticorn. Though interestingly enough for Equestria it has multiple gods given the comics exploring the series, we know both Anubis and Bast exist in Equestria and each have some form of relationship with Discord. Bast a possible River Song relationship and Anubis, an "If I see you again I'll kill you" relationship. Plus since Tartarus and Cerberus, it's gatekeeper exists and is on their borders, it can be assumed the Greek God and Goddesses exist in some form even though we haven't seen them due to how Greek Mythology works seeing how the series is based mainly around it.
The Princesses themselves might be seen as goddesses to their subjects due to their powers & immortality and would be more Demigoddesses themselves maybe since they haven't shown any signs of actual godlike powers other than what their talent in magic can do. Plus their mother being the creator automatically makes them goddesses in some form or another due to blood relation. Twilight and Cadence possibly being Demigoddesses on a smaller scale than Celestia and Luna are.
The Balance between Good and evil would obviously exist since it's like a fundamental law of the universe or something to that effect. good and evil, right and wrong, order and chaos, ect. coexisting in harmony creating the balance. Fausticorn helps preserves this balance as does the Elements of Harmony and the Tree of Harmony, both of which were discovered by the princesses during their first months as princesses since they were put into power by the 3 rulers before them, Commander Hurricane, Princess Platinum. and Chancellor Puddinghead.
The part about the sun and moon being raised by unicorns make sense since it's canon and they did do that but it exhausted them each day until the princesses as little fillies showed up one day. After awhile they were elected as the rulers by the previous 3 and also during the first months discovered their special talents thus the responsibility of raising the sun and moon was given to them.
In the context of this particular setting, option 1 seems like the most natural choice for at least the Equestrians themselves, given the sheer blind faith they have in the princesses. Most religions involve some degree of attempt to explain and placate those forces of nature that a culture is at the mercy of and cannot explain otherwise, but since the ponies basically manually perform all of these functions, from the turning of the seasons to making plants grow, something that's reminiscent of the Roman Imperial Cult seems more appropriate. Deification of a national leader is hardly something that's particularly rare in human history. I suppose the monotheist option would also work. If there was ever a world that had to be created ex nihilo in its current state to even work, it's this one.
I would either go with a combination of option A mixed with B. Meaning something along the lines of thier was a creator and he/she/it made or elevated Luna and Celestia to god hood. Besides this I would think option e would be the next best thing.
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Buddhism believes in rebirth, not reincarnation. It sounds the same, but it's distinct. Buddhism doesn't believe in souls per se, for example.
I'd say E. It fits the theme of the show Quite nicely.
e
E is in my opinion the best one, it allows for the most character choice on your part, allowing for your own development among predetermined characters.
E.
All cultures/nations/religions have people adhering to a variety of different beliefs, sects, and philosophies, even if one or more is in the majority. I think this was be the most interesting, and in some ways realistic.
E.
Probably E. with an emphasis on one or two of the others, probably B. or C.
The Big E
I vote for Option B, as that's basically the way I write my own fics when it comes to the religious beliefs of the ponies and the other races of their world.
Because much like us silly humans, each races has their own separate beliefs in the creator and creation of their particular race.
E
E
I think E is the best choice.
I'm going to cast my vote for B. I personally am a Christian and would appreciate seeing it in your story. I also think that it is logical that the ponies would have religions similar to humanity's. Cristianity often gets swept under the rug for being supposedly "unscientific" even though there's really a lot of evidence to support it. I would like I said appreciate it if this was implemented in your story well. However I will say this choice E is probably the best choice if you want a realistic point of view be cause a lot of these choices sound like something that might be believed by some of the ponies of Equestria, I'm a bit skeptical on A and D but there are probably a few ponies who believe those. So I'm going to remain loyal to my faith and vote for B, but I won't mind if you choose E (although like someone else mentioned maybe put a stronger emphasis on B).
Edit: also if I may request could Faust not he used as a name for the creator, it kinda feels like a ridiculous meta joke to me, that's just how I feel.
Personally, I would say option B. I think this because after thousands of years, Celestia could probably convince her subjects that she is not a godess. After seeing her be bested by Chrysalis and (spoilers for Negotiations and Reunited)after her choice to abandon the rest of their world, we have seen that she is not very godlike. Option C may not work well because one could argue that after having access to magic for millenia, ponies would probably study magic and may have come up with a scientific theory for it which would make any religious idea be shaken. I don't really have an argument for option D, I just prefer B.
I think C and B are the most likely choices, but E fits the best as Religion is a personal belief and is different for everyone.
I would say E with c being the oldest and b growing out from it and currently the largest with a an offshoot of b with a small but influential following.
E please,
Also, I'm not an Atheist, but I think "Rationalism" sounds better for that philosophy
E. I think that's the most earth-like, which gives you some room to play with in the story, plus I think that it's the most realistic.
I have seen a mix of A and B in the last year or so.
With that being said I will choose E
I'd have to vote for (A) since its seems the most logical and fitting with how your stories are written.
I would go with either A, B, D possibly, and/or E. E would be my primary choice because I'm sure different ponies will have different opinions on religion and as smartjocklv said, option D would give them a more concrete motivation for invading since we can only assume that they only scratched the surface of our religions instead of studying them in depth, but it is up to you.
E. Multifaith. Some believe, Some don't. I imagine between species and location, religious views of the world would vary wildly. Like how would a dragon or a gryphon view this? a Zebra? Definitely multicultural and multifaith.
E
E but A is popular
E Though with what the show gives us I think C is quite probable.
C. Mostly because I've never seen it done before.
B
I'd go with B. If only because IRL the ancient Roman Goddess of the Herd was called Faustitas.
I'd say (A) if not (C), or both.
(A) because I think it would be a good wake up call for the ponies to see that the princesses are not invincible goddesses and that their faith in them was misplaced.
(C) because Twilight has already mentioned how she once thought that the magic of friendship could never be broken but was proven wrong.
Both just seem like the best options to me.
...
So does that mean my choice is (E)?
E, but with perhaps A being the prevailing way of thinking. I think it's more realistic to see more than just one way of thinking, but odds are one of them became the popular one.
Of course the question there is, did Celestia and Luna claim to be goddesses? Would be hard to argue with someone who claims to be such and has the power to literally move the heavens.
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No, but they never banned the worship of them either.
B or C with an element of A in a "... And Celestia is her/it's/their prophet/champion/herald/etc" role.
Although straight A could be interesting. Take on the issue of what happens when your gods fall before you.
I vote for princess worship; nothing else makes sense in this context.
I vote C.
E
for religion to work it needs three things. one a afterlife or reincarnation, two a set of rules on how to live your life and three a god or god like figure