On Starlight Glimmer and "Punishment" · 12:06am Jan 19th, 2016
Why do people have to be so goddamn childish?
Even keeping to myself, mostly offline beyond a cursory look around here and there between my day shifts, I just can't get away from this crap. I hear about it all the time from my acquaintances and relatives involved in it, too. Drama, idiocy, bullshit, and putrid mixes of all three. There are so many things I could complain about now -- and believe me, I will get around to them at some point -- but I think a fair enough and somewhat topical place to start lies with the controversial Season 5 finale. More specifically, on how a number of people... reacted, shall we say, to this finale. And how they feel about a certain unicorn in particular.
No, I'm not going to argue that it was the best finale ever. It wasn't. But then again, I didn't like the Season 4 finale either. Or any of them, really. I'm unappeasable. Things to me are either "shit" or "less shit", a lot of the time. But it's not bottom of the barrel shit or anything; better than what's on most kid shows, definitely, so I don't feel any particular qualms about letting my own kids or any kids watch it -- hell, even adults if they were so inclined. No, I'm just sitting here, watching a number of the always-amazing "bronies" react to it with such... vigor, shall we say. Watching, and amazed. Amazed, and yet, completely unsurprised. Is this really what the so-called "love and tolerate" (bile rises in my throat at the mere unironic utterance of that phrase) attitude of the fandom has come to? Pettiness and vengeance? Are they really so oblivious to their own hypocrisy?
Why do I ask questions I already know the answer to?
There are some fans out there, right now, who cry out for Starlight Glimmer's blood. Even NOW, months after the finale aired, well after people should have shut up about it. They want her to be PUNISHED, and not even in any realistic capacity. You should see some of this shit yourselves to believe it. I'm not even sure if they're being serious or not. Somehow, I think they just might be, because we've gotten to THAT point, folks. And what did she even do? Fuck around with timelines and cause Twilight a lot of grief, all in the name of petty revenge, of course. I'm not saying she's right, because she's obviously not. Rather, I'm saying that what the fandom WANTS to have happened to Starlight and what the characters in the show would have ACTUALLY done (and did, in fact, end up doing) are two completely different things. It's a bizarre conflict of morality and a warped sense of justice that they don't even seem to realize the problem with.
I'll say this about Starlight: she's one of the more interesting major villains of the show. Nightmare Moon was Luna being jealous. Discord messed things up because he didn't give a shit, he just enjoys fucking around. Sombra was a shadowy smoke demon thing that had no backstory nor motivation beyond a lust for power and control. Chrysalis did what she did to, again, gain power and feed her swarm of changelings. Tirek was that G1 throwback villain that... well, again, lust for power and control, except it was more widespread and he almost won. Starlight was just an ordinary goddamn unicorn with a fancy staff, a lousy childhood, and an obsession with making everyone equal. How about that, huh? A villain that, beyond being a villain, was no different than Twilight or her friends, in terms of power and stature -- if anything, she is LESS than what Twilight is, and yet manages to run circles around her thanks to her cunning and intelligence. I say "interesting", which doesn't mean "phenomenal", but it was refreshing to have a major villain she didn't need to shoot magic friendship lasers at just to beat.
Admittedly, I feel as though she wasn't utilized to her fullest potential. But it was different enough from the norm that she still stood out. People feel her motivation was too weak to have spurred on what she did -- which prompted one fic in particular to address this revelation by having Twilight basically mouthpiece how a typical fan at the time would have said in reaction. That is to say, "So what?" As if Twilight, the princess of friendship, doesn't give a shit about problems that cause others so much grief -- least of all when Starlight herself is pretty much on the verge of fucking up the timelines for good, which would have been incredibly stupid of her to do. Leaving behind the fact that it is critically out of character for Twilight to do such a thing anyway, those people miss the point entirely.
Starlight's backstory was not the direct cause of her actions. It merely set her down the path towards it.
Think like a rational human being, for a second. She was a young filly at the time. Young, easily impressionable, and having only one true friend. Said friend is then suddenly ripped from her life, never to be seen or heard from again, because of him getting his cutie mark. Adults, myself included, would probably find that silly and childish. "So what?" "Just move on!" "Make another friend instead!" "Quit bitching about stupid shit!" But, see, here's the kicker: she wasn't an adult at the time. She was a kid. Kids typically take change and the resulting emotional distress a lot harder than adults do. The experience was devastating to her, not to you. It doesn't matter if the backstory itself is dumb, what matters is that she, as a child, took it very seriously. Keep your own feelings out of it entirely, otherwise bias will taint your viewpoint, letting you once again miss the whole point.
People who complain about this backstory don't seem to realize nor consider that kids think very differently from adults. Kids are naïve, innocent, and vulnerable. Loss and other sorts of sufficiently-traumatizing events at a young age can leave strong impressions on them that persist well into their teens and adult years, whether they be in the form of personal opinions, beliefs, fears, aspirations, personality, etc. In losing her friend, whom she had held quite dear, she was crushed. She blamed cutie marks as being the very thing that took away her friend -- and so, her path was set to seek isolation and removal from the influence of cutie marks. In her mind, equality would mean that she, and everyone else for that matter, would never have to lose friends ever again over it. Simple, almost childlike logic? Yes. But with no other means of coping, care, or openly expressing herself, she was set in her beliefs.
And you do have to consider that her motivations had to have been simple enough for children watching the show to be able to grasp, too. The show isn't designed to be focused directly at the more jaded, critical minds of adults, who can pick apart these finer details or fail to find logic in these occurrences. There's no logic to be had in the first place when it comes to a younger, undeveloped individual as Starlight was. Her view and reasoning was flawed, there is no denying that, but it didn't just materialize from the ether or anything.
Now, make no mistake nor assumption. This does not excuse her actions in any way. They are still very much wrong. But there was a reason she ended up the way she did. Whether or not you feel it to be weak, know that you need to think about how a child would have reacted to what she went through. And the reason she ended up fucking with Twilight, after that? Revenge for getting in the way of her plans, and shattering the illusion of her perfect world. Once again taking everything she'd built up all away. Again. Years of effort, laid to waste. She'd lost everything she felt she had, yet again. Thus, in her anger, she sought to take revenge by trying to take away Twilight's friends, just as she'd lost her own. In a funny way, it demonstrated just how badly attempting to take revenge on those who you feel wronged you can go -- not just for yourself, but for others in general. An irony that is hopelessly lost on those who decry Starlight's redemption. But all of that is mostly irrelevant anyway, because the reason she did what she did doesn't matter in the first place; what she DID in the end because of it is what matters.
Which then leads us back into the "punishment" debate. Oh boy, this is a fun one.
Firstly, get any preconception of how crime and punishment works in Equestria out of your heads. Right now. Your idea of punishment is not "justice". Justice is not vengeance. Punishment is vengeance, a petty form of retribution, and vengeance only begets resentment and further vengeance. That is NOT how a land of colorful cartoon horses works. I can't even BELIEVE I'm being forced to rage about this, but no, fuck you, in Equestria, you WILL be forgiven. Mercy, forgiveness, and empathy are commonplace. People bitch endlessly about "muh punishment" all the fucking time; it happened with Mare Do Well, Rainbow Falls, Owl's Well That Ends Well, Tanks For The Memories, and many more -- believing that somehow, in this fictional world of happy ponies, the guilty parties deserved to be taken out back to be berated and beaten senseless. Applicable in the real world? Perhaps, in some cases. But Equestria isn't the real world now, is it?
Twilight talked down Starlight from causing irrevocable damage to the timelines, and Starlight expressed remorse for her actions. It's quite clear by the end that she WANTS to make amends. As we've seen many times before in the show, forgiveness and redemption is always the preferred option. Maybe for her, it will be difficult to adjust properly, and I kind of hope to see this in some form in the future. But above all else, this is a land where friendship is a cherished value. Twilight is the princess of friendship. FRIENDSHIP. Not the princess of REVENGE. Notice how those two key words are spelled differently, and carry different meanings? I just thought to point that out. Evidently some people don't quite grasp it.
Friendship is basically the ultimate power in their world, besides love itself; the be-all end-all fix-it solution to Equestria's problems. Nightmare Moon? Blast her with some friendship, make her nice again. Trixie? Some smoke and mirrors, and a healthy dollop of friendship. Even fucking Diamond Tiara, the rich bitch of a schoolfilly that tormented the CMC throughout much of the show's run? A little understanding, plot convenience, and some FRIENDSHIP went a long way this season, and now the status quo has been forever tipped. They even got DISCORD to come around way back in season 3. Arguably he managed to get away with a hell of a lot worse than what Starlight ever did, with an outright deliberate, malicious motivation as opposed to one born of insecurity and youth impressionability, so where the fuck are all the raging fanboys complaining about the shit he pulled, huh? Oh, wait, I forgot, Discord gets a pass, because he's cool and funny and happens to be voiced by Q from fucking Star Trek. K then.
"But Tirek was locked in Tartarus! Discord locked in stone! Nightmare Moon banished to... well, the moon! Chrysalis was BTFO! Punishment is totally a thing!"
There is a key difference people also miss, here. Intent. By the time they were all defeated in their respective manners, they were not willing to stop. They showed no remorse. They were active and present threats to the wellbeing of the land and its inhabitants, and were on the verge of winning. None of them were willing to accept friendship or otherwise step down. So, they basically had no choice but to lock them away. Even then, none of the "punishments" involved any significant harm to them, physically -- for such beings of deity-like status it could be compared to giving them a mere time-out. A child's punishment for a child's TV show? Fitting. Discord eventually came around, as did Nightmare, but it took an extensive level of effort and circumstance to do so. For all you know, they might try to redeem Tirek in season 6. (I mean, they won't, but still.)
Now, there ARE times when the show punishes the antagonists a bit too severely, as was the case with Trixie and the Flim Flam Brothers. They weren't malicious or otherwise harmful. Trixie was a travelling showmare, an entertainer, and it was Twilight's friends that basically started shit with her first -- even the Ursa Minor wasn't her fault -- and it was because of them that her career was basically ruined. Flim and Flam were businessmen. Say what you want about them, but in their initial appearance, they were hardly as bad as people make them out to be; they were only trying to get by in their business, and all things considered, their offer to the Apple Family was very fair. They refused basically just because they were too stubborn to let go of their tradition, even if it meant they would only continue to scrape on by year after year. Again, another career ruined by the "good guys". Sometimes the show tries a little too hard to make some things seem so horrible and detestable, that it comes across as very forced. Maybe that's where these people get the idea of being so demanding of punishments for the ACTUAL villains, even post-redemption. But, that's a topic for another day.
"B-but what about the timelines? Like they were all messed up and shit! Post-apocalypse! Wars! Everything burned to ashes! Sh-she killed ponies! Genocide! E-even if Twilight forgave her, everyone else still should be against her at the end!"
You mean the timelines that didn't fucking happen?
Twilight (and Spike too, I guess) were the only ones to know about all of that shit. Everyone else was none the wiser. Because it didn't. Fucking. Happen. Unless you subscribe to some bullshit multiverse theory, then everything that could have ever went wrong in those many 'verses was basically erased every instance the timeline was reset. Whether or not Starlight may have been responsible for the deaths of ponies is inconsequential, because realistically, you have no way of knowing what could affect what anyway. For all you know, occupying that last seat on the bus could force someone to walk instead. Said someone could get run over by a car while crossing a road minutes later. Starlight did indeed tangle with forces she had no business tangling with, and she didn't realize the ramifications of what she was doing. Again, I'm not excusing her actions. But to call her a murderer for mucking about in time travelling is dumb and nearsighted. At that point, you're just grasping at whatever straw you can for an excuse to deliver an axe unto her neck.
God, I'm spending way too much time on this shit.
In the end, Twilight forgave Starlight for her actions, and after explaining things to the others, they forgave her as well. She even decides to go as far as taking her under her wing (so to speak) as a student, so that she might have the chance to teach Starlight about friendship as well. Happy ending. Nobody carrying any animosity for another, no BS involving "punishments" or retribution, just a clean, feel-good resolution that makes the kids happy, and helps reinforce to them that friendship is the obvious preference to petty revenge. Because it is just SO bad that it oughta end on a high note with a positive message, huh? Heaven-fucking-forbid!
This right here is what everyone hates. Forgiveness. Acceptance. Another fucking chance at starting over and doing things right, with friends to help along the way. Absolutely disgusting.
Actually, I take back what I said at the start about people being childish. That's an insult to children. Even THEY are more mature and accepting of things like these than idiots in the "fandom" are. I'd suggest that they grow the fuck up, but when kids are acting more grown-up than grown-ups, what is there to suggest? Maybe going back in time and giving that upbringing of theirs a few tweaks would help. Except, no, that would probably lead to someone dying, right? Better not then, otherwise you're a monster that needs to be strung up and given forty lashes, maybe a hanging or electrocution to be on the safe side. Just what is WITH people and their hateboners, these days? Are they really so dense as to not realize that pettiness such as this is the reason that the cycle of revenge and violence is unending? As much as I loathe the phrase made infamous by 4chan shitposters and unironically adopted by a largely-ignorant fandom, whatever happened to the doctrine of "love and tolerate"? Is it really quite so hard to just suck it up and accept it for what it is, a show for CHILDREN, trying to hammer in a message that most shit on TV hardly ever addresses at all?
Absolutely pathetic. Everyone that gets hung up on this shit earns my ire (and consequently, my downvote) for that reason alone. I'd suggest some people wishing for Starlight's torture be admitted somewhere, too. Their line of thinking honestly disturbs me. Holy SHIT do some of these nutcases take things way too far. And people wonder why this fandom is looked up with scorn by many, bearing so low of an image. A fandom housing of loud, entitled twats in their echo chambers that believe the show should be catering to them. Good show, you lot. Another par for the course as far as fandoms are concerned.
People praise Season 5 to high hell. I wasn't terribly impressed by it, though I do applaud the writers shifting the status quo a bit with the whole CMC cutie mark thing, and basically putting an end to the string of awful, go-nowhere CMC episodes. I may not view it quite so highly as many do, but I liked the season preceding it quite a bit less, and outright hated the season before that (and so on and so forth; Season 2 was okay, Season 1 sucked in comparison to later ones, fucking deal with it you Faust-worshipping spergs), so I suppose it's technically one of the better seasons the show has had. Like, in the end, it's not as if it's a bad season or even a bad show or anything. It's just hampered by its core focus on the target demographic, corporate agenda, and program format. Which does lead to some pitfalls, writing-wise, that -- let's be honest -- most kids are not going to pick up on. And really, that fact being freshly digested, why are ADULTS being the ones that suddenly give too many shits about something like this? Come on, there has to be something out there more deserving of your attention. The show does a much better job than a lot of others out there. It makes no sense trying to demand perfection from them. Upholding to some standards? Perhaps. But of course they're not going to hit the mark every single time.
Inevitably, this show was, is, and always will be a children-focused show, with any references to the fandom being nothing more than cheeky one-off fanservice, so get off your entitled thrones and accept this show for what it is. It wasn't made for you. It never was, and never will be. So stop demanding so much of it already. I give this show a pass despite its shortcomings because it more or less accomplishes what it sets out to do, and nothing more -- that is, be entertaining for kids, not quite boring and stupid enough for adults who are forced to watch it, and offer a few insightful and mostly-positive lessons that kids who pay attention can take after. And, y'know, it's colorful and distracting enough for most toddlers to keep them busy for a while, even if they don't quite comprehend it for what it is.
That's not to say the show doesn't sometimes miss the mark in terms of its lessons, of course. Because it does. Oh boy, it does... But, that's neither here nor there. And those instances aren't terribly common, so it doesn't really bring the show itself as a whole down very much.
And you know what, here's a pic of them hugging. Starlight Glimmer is my favorite pony, now. Just to spite you fucking people.
Now, having said all of that, would the Equestrian way of doing things (ie, forgiveness and friendship) be an appropriate substitute for our own established system of law, order, and discipline in our society? Without going into messy details... no. Our cultures, history, and general way of life are so vastly different that you really can't compare the two in any realistic manner, beyond the superficial resemblances. Punishments exist in our society as a way of penalizing those who do criminal wrongdoings (ie, assault, theft, murder, etc) and deterring others from doing such wrongdoings in the first place. Equestria is much more forgiving in that regard because ponies almost never do any wrong to begin with, are typically very happy-go-lucky creatures, and because it's a fucking cartoon about colorful ponies singing songs of magic and friendship meant to entertain kids and not fucking confuse and/or depress them you dipshit. Stop pretending that Equestria is anything like Earth. Draw whatever parallels you want. End of the day, it's still a damn cartoon.
...Ech, it's been too long. Once again, long nights of sleeplessness render my rants wordy and barely legible. Classic me, right?
Oh, and before anyone asks if I saw Hearthbreakers: I did. I find myself in approval of Limestone's character -- funny that they seem so spot on in making her an angry, bossy grouch like yours truly. I'm meh on the episode itself. At least it's nice to see the staff remembering that they have an actual world that they could be doing things with. I would say that they need to work on better stories and conflicts, but hey, who am I to criticize a show intended for kids? That'd just be silly.
~BlinkyPony
P.S.: Something something Holder's Boulder. There, obligation fulfilled. Don't pester me about it anymore.
Glad to see you still have your touch.
Welcome back Blinky-san!
It's not just toddlers; I like the pretty colors, too.
Wonderful.
Now prepare for 7-8 paragraph responses talking in explicit detail about exactly why you are wrong.
3696454
[insert 7-8 paragraphs here]
You're wrong.
Am I doing it right?
I missed your rants.
So basically, "why are stupid people stupid?" Nobody knows. It will forever be a mystery, and they will forever plague the world and get pissy when cartoon characters they don't like get treated nicely.
I'm really enjoying this recent wave of negative reaction to the Starlight torture fetishists.
You hit the nail on the head. All of this drama about Starlight Glimmer (and the other ponies that people don't like) has gotten absurd lately, and you covered pretty much everything I'm feeling right now. Besides, isn't the power and importance of friendship the main theme of the show, not to mention in the title?
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write this up.
Ah man, I knew there was a reason I hit that follow button a while back.
I actually really like Starlight, I'll admit to feeling a minor need to fill in the blanks as far as motivation went but I never really cared about that. I found all my enjoyment in the people whining and bitching about Starlight seeming more powerful than Twilight because of their stalemate. Most of them failing to realize just how hard Twilight's job really was in that whole back and forth they were doing.
Thank you, Blinky!
This helped me clarify why they shouldn't be mad about Starlight getting redemption. Especially when you consider how this and their society works. And hey, you're right about how we shouldn't expect too much out of this show. It's something that I need to consider more now that I think about it. Therefore, I commend you for that as well. Once again, Thank you. Also, welcome back, it's been awhile.
PS - Is it safe to say that you're like the ADoseofBuckley of fimfiction
?
Y'know, there's so much that I agree with here that I'm not even going to quote passages. Wanna know what I think really needed to be said? The whole thing -- just go reread the entire blog entry again. That's all got the Elric seal of approval (for whatever that's worth).
And it's not just the Starlight Glimmer issue that shows where a lot of the non-target-demographic fans have weird thought processes. Consider the following groups:
- People who think Starlight Glimmer needs to be punished, preferably in some horrible way.
- People who have had violent revenge fantasies about schoolyard bullies Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon.
- People who, even after seeing the canonical fight between Celestia and Nightmare Moon, still hold to the belief that poor, wonewy Woona just needed love that she wasn't getting from that bitch Celestia, and/or that Celestia is an iron-hoofed tyrant who needed to be overthrown (and still does).
- People who believe that manipulative, cruel, would-be conqueror Queen Chrysalis is merely misunderstood.
I imagine that a Venn diagram of all these groups would have a shitload of overlap.
This. All of this.
I mean, have you seen the group created by LightningSword? All they do is moan and whine about how 'wrong' the season finale was. None of them are open to discussion—attempting to have an actual, honest-to-god, thought-provoking discussion leads to them screaming at you to stop being 'antagonistic'. I can't be bothered trying to find it right now, but there was one particular thread where LightningSword straight-up told someone to go away if they disagreed. Another one I also can't be bothered to find (this one is my favourite) was a conversation between PegasusMesa and some guy. PegasusMesa brings up a lot of valid points, and the other person doesn't know what to say. So instead, he rants and screams about how he 'doesn't care', trying to act cool while not actually addressing any of PegasusMesa's points.
It's fucking pathetic.