Chapter 45 is up - IMPORTANT PATREON NEWS!!! · 8:41pm Dec 23rd, 2015
Hi all!
Chapter is up. But, I have some bad news.
FimFic has decided to ban using chapter previews as Patreon rewards. This is devastating to me, as without Patreon I wouldn’t have been able to write like I have been. Thus, the rewards are going to change.
Patrons that pledge $3 a month or more will now get access to a special persistent, p2p, patron-only Skype text chat, where I can talk with you guys directly. Not only will it be a general chat, but I’ll seek feedback on my writing from my valued supporters. Of course, to get the best feedback, I may have to post links from time to time. Links which may or may not have snippets of previews of coming chapters, totalling anywhere between 0-100% of the coming chapter(s?).
The next Patreon update, which is coming within the next 24 hours, will have a link to the chat.
In a few days I’m going to be on the road. First couple days I’ll have Internet, but the few days after that I’ll be largely out of contact. I’ll be in the middle of nowhere on the Canadian plains, and cell signal is there is only barely existent. So I can’t promise I’ll be in contact during that time frame.
Writing is proceeding again. So much so, in fact, that I’m at a point where I’ll have to stop for a time to daydream certain parts into being. Otherwise I won’t have anything to write! Good thing I’m about to go on this vacation, I guess.
Until next blog!
Happy Holidays everyone!
-Cv
Well, it's nice to see some positive news for a change.
No, not the Patreon stuff. To ge honest, I never cared for the previews--why would I want to read an incomplete, WIP version instead of the improved release version if the only difference it makes is a bit of wait? But the vacation and writing progress seem like good news to me.
Have fun on your vacation!
That... doesn't seem right. Fimfic shouldn't have any say in what you use an entirely different site for. It's outside of their sphere of influence, so why should they get to choose what you use your Patreon account for?
It seems beyond unreasonable, if you ask me. It's your story, your patreon account... What does FimFic have to say on that matter? I honestly don't see any way that they could reasonably ban such a thing. I'm not even trying to be a dick, I genuinely don't understand.
Edit:
Okay, I just read up on the rules... Still doesn't seem like it's something inside the site's sphere of influence. Sure, it states that you're not allowed to sell unpublished chapters, but giving pre-views as a patreon reward is not selling. At the very least one has to stretch their definition of the word quite a bit to fit it in. And even then, I can't help but feel as if it's the site trying to take ownership of something it never has, and never will, have ownership over. What you choose to do with the chapters of your story should be for you, and only you, to decide. It's not as if you're denying people access to parts of your story, then I might be able to understand the issue. You're only giving people access to it a little earlier than others.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but you used those previews for a bit of editing as well? I'm not entirely certain on that one, but if my memory doesn't betray me, that means it also falls under the rule that allows you to share documents for editing purposes.
...Sigh
I may be resisting too hard, but I just find it unfathomable how it can be viewed as reasonable that the Site gets to "decide" what you do and do not do with things that aren't even published here.
Have a good trip!
I am fairly certain that if you have the preview/WIP chapters on say gdocs you are fine, assuming you don't use Fimfiction to link to the gdocs and only Patreon is directing to them.
I hope you get it sorted and may lots of holly, jingly bells, and cookies, cookies, cookies be in your future.
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I believe it's a combination of lawyer-dodging, and the fact that while most authors are courteous about it, others will incessantly spam you about how you-really-should-subscribe-to-their-patreon-no-seriously.
Fucking BS about the patreon ting, I'm sorry to hear that.
Have a nice trip, and I'm glad to hear the writing is coming along
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Something which is easily ignored by most people. I still don't see how it should allow the site to lord over its users what they do with their own stuff, that's not even on this site.
Hey Cv, why don't you let us proofread for you as well on the Doc? That may make it so you can still let us preview it as a reward. Incidentally, did you ask the mods if it was allowed how you have it? I mean, it is a completely different site, they may let you do it.
Why the fuck does knighty care if other people get money from Patreon? We've been making free content for him for years, and he's never given us a dime. That's just mean-spirited.
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So you guys think Knighty should have no say when his site is being used as a platform for illegal acts?
Did you forget that no one here has the intellectual rights to these characters? That making money off of them is, in fact, illegal? And do you realize that if Hasbro decides to take notice, this site WILL BE SHUT DOWN?! Do you need some examples?
Mane6 - tried to create Fighting is magic
WhiteDove - made plush toys
JanAnimations - made Button Mash's Adventure
Sherclop Pones - made the Friendship is Witchcraft series
3639541
Well considering that there is this little thing called the "Safe harbor" clause, and another little thing called "Contractual Tort Law," yes, the site Has No Say in what One does else-were.
Fimfiction could say that "People cannot advertise Patreon on the site," and that would be legal, but saying that you cannot, else-were, use Patreon (for whatever you want), violates Patreon's User-Patreon Contracts and removes the protection of the safe-harbor clause (as the site is then saying that it does vet content, including users other actions, and that they promise to take an active, rather than re-active approach to DMCA), and actually opens the website up to being sued by either the Users of the site, or Patreon, or Hasbro.
3639541 Since Patreon collects and disperses the money, as well as the passwords to access the material, I would think it would be their responsibility. But perhaps that isn't entirely clear. Perhaps fimfiction could be dragged into court if they make it possible for someone else to use part of their infrastructure to preferentially give access to people who paid the author? I wouldn't think so, but it's possible. So, okay, I can understand that.
But don't get morally outraged with me, because knighty is already making money off the site. He already crossed that line himself long ago.
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Contract and Tort laws are two different things, and have no relivance here, as there is no contract to violate.
Safe harbor clause. A little thing that just happens to not exist. A safe harbor clause is a built in loop hole in a law. Such as "It is illegal to drive recklessly" has a common safe harbor that "Driving under 25 mph cannot be reckless". These are literally added to the law itself, sometimes as addendums. The only "Safe Harbor" addendum related to the internet is the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (OCILLA), which protectes ISPs from being charged for any criminal activity that uses them. This is because they cannot legally know what traffic they host. This does not apply to this site, as there are no privacy act protections on content here.
If you have some information that contradicts this, please feel free to post it.
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Patreon could get in trouble, but a large company is far more likely to have a legal team to negotiate away the issue than Knighty is.
As for the ad revenue, do you have some information I dont? How much revenue is generated? How much does he spend on hosting? Does he have a profit margin? Please back this up with some details if you want to use it as an argument.
And I'm not morally outraged, I'm worried.
I don't care what you do. Just don't do it here. I DON'T want this site shut down.
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After looking into it, you are technically right (the best kind) as there is no DMCA take-down location on this site (and therefore it has not asked to be a designated Agent for DMCA and is not subject to the Safe Harbor Clause as per Section 512, {FN72: 17 U.S.C. §512} )
(They should really set that up by the way; else-wise they are leaving themselves open to a larger world of DMCA problems)
However I would like to point out that some states have laws disallowing the interference of contractual negotiations post fact; For example in CA, if you attempt to get someone fired using out-of-work reasons (such as they are of the wrong political party and it is not in the contract that they must be of the political party) it is illegal to do so. In those states, this is usually referred to as "Contract-Tort Law."
However that depends mostly on where the author is from, where the site is from and where patreon is located.
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Perhaps I'm missing something here, why are you bringing contract law in? I don't know what contract you are referring to.
As long as you don't advertise that your Patreon offers chapter previews (can still list it on Patreon as a bonus, just don't mention it here), and as long as those previews are hosted off-site, FimFiction has no jurisdiction whatsoever on it. Just host on GDocs with private browsing, only provide links to Patreon subscribers.
3639541
Looking at it in the light of legal-shit like that (profanities 'cause big companies like to play bullies sometimes), I can see the point of the rule. Doesn't mean I like it, I never will, but I see the reasoning behind it.
If it is solely for the purpose of keeping the site safe (which I really hope it is), then it makes sense why the rule is there. Before that it sounded more like FimFic wanting to say to people that they're not allowed to do what they want with their own fanfics.
Also, you speak of intellectual property. If a story contains no mention of any Canon things, then I think it would technically not go within the intellectual property. If the only similarity is "Ponies" and nothing mentioned in the show or anything like that is in the actual story, then wouldn't it be "Safe" ?
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If any characters from the show are used, then it is not. Settings, concepts, and such are pretty safe though. So a story with all OCs that does not reference the cast from the show would likely be pretty much immune from this stuff. For example, JanAnimations got hit, not from using the style or settings or names, but from a camio of Sweetie Belle.
And since the site post that mentions this directly refers to the potential problems of making money off of ponies, I'm pretty sure this rule is for the site's protection. Sure, some of the admins sound like it's something they have a personal grievance with, but they also have good justification with protecting the site.
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I am under the assumption that payment from Patreon is governed by some sort of contract; and that there is (if nothing else) an informal contract for posting here.
These two things being in opposition allows for some Post Fact Contractual Negotiation Laws to apply; but as stated, it depends on a myriad of variables involved.
3639866
The patron contract is written by the holder of the account; and the closest thing to a contract, formal or otherwise, is the site rules. Since there really is no obligation on the part of the author to do anything, I'm pretty sure that no contract laws will apply.
That being said, I don't know enough about contract laws to speak knowledgeably beyond that. I will say that I think legal fees and court costs would be daunting to say the least. If court even comes into the picture, I think the author will have already lost...
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The only site post I could find is the "Minor clarification", and that one doesn't mention anything about it, I don't think. Maybe in the comments? Haven't read those.
They can hit you for stuff like settings and concepts just as well as for using characters; just because they generally don't doesn't mean they can't. Places like Ponyville, concepts like pegasi controlling the weather, and other stuff like that are completely fair game for legal action.
For JanAnimations, Button Mash was a canon character that they took from the show in the first place, so any OC-only rule wouldn't have applied to them anyway.