Frenemies Talk: S05E23 - The Hooffields and McColts · 7:42pm Nov 18th, 2015
So, once again, Prane and Gulheru dragged me into one of these review thingies, and once again I went along mostly so I'd actually get around to watching the episode. I still haven't seen a bunch of those in between, though 
This time, we were joined by SoloBrony, who writes really intriguing changeling stories. Like the episodes, though, I have a ton of his writings to catch up on. Sorry about that, Solo. Real Life has been kicking my ass the past few months, and I'm only recently getting out of a really bad slump. With any luck, I might even write something again soon. You never know.
Anyway, without further ado, here's the review on this episode. And oh boy, it stirred some controversy amongst the reviewers! Not me, though. I'm generally the easygoing kind, and I'm not too critical on what is still, at the end of the day, a cartoon show aimed at kids 
"Here's a deal: we cease fire and do something about the limited gene pool we're tapping into every Hearts and Hooves."
Prane: The map strikes once again to plant a subliminal message in our brains! After convincing us that Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash are meant to work together (because Griffonstone), and tricking us into thinking that Rarity and AJ are still an item (because Manehattan), it want us to accept that the third more-or-less official pairing within the Main Six is Twilight Sparkle and Fluttershy! Can’t you see the obvious? The map is just a 2.0 version of the Pairing Stone which brought Pinkie’s parents together! It’s an object which creates opportunities for the ponies to maximize the chances of them falling for each other by separating them from other ponies they know, in consequence adding or removing their genes from the pool so that the planned, controlled evolution of the ponykind could continue. You say it’s crazy talk? Maybe, but I have this dandy tinfoil hat and you don’t. Ha!
On a more serious note, I feel that this map-induced adventure was the least interesting of the three mentioned above. While the problem with the Idol of Boreas or the Midsummer Theatre Revival could have ended in several ways while staying true to the episode’s message, the feud between the two families could only end with a truce. Bloodshed is also an option, but not in this setting, so let’s assume that nothing close to the actual Hatfields vs. McCoys conflict ever took place. The story was straightforward, and we had fair chances at guessing the ending we’d be getting, so the question is: was waiting for the obvious enjoyable? I’d say yes. The episode was neither shabby nor amazing, which is just what the series needs before the fast-approaching season finale: a reminder of what’s considered ‘simple’ in the setting so we could appreciate the ‘epic’ to come.
How do you feel about this episode? Oh, and if you had to choose, would you side with the farmers (the Hooffields) or the builders (the McColts)?
SoloBrony: It’s a rare pony episode that doesn’t have a predictable ending for me, but I’m usually more surprised by the things that come between; more about the journey than the destination, one might say. I felt this episode fell somewhat short in that regard; there wasn’t a lot of interesting character development or interaction, and I didn’t find the new characters introduced to be particularly interesting. With that having been said, I did feel like Twilight’s constant barrage of attempts at solutions was quite amusing. I honestly feel kind of strange about this episode; it felt like it was some kind of setup, like the classic brick joke, where the initial impression is intentionally mediocre; perhaps this ties into the finale heavily, somehow. I have a suspicion that the start of the episode is a hint at the finale of the season hinted at in Friendship Games, personally. As far as the actual core of the episode, the idea of fighting just to ‘win’ at some stupid argument or feud, that’s far too realistic of a problem for me to sneer at; I can think of too many real-world wars and conflicts perpetuated by that kind of blindness.
McColts forever.
Gulheru: At first when I learned about the idea of the episode, I shivered. Would we be subjected to one more Romeo and Juliet story of two warring clans? Will there be serenades, secret meetings, passion, poison and some pretty ironic timing resulting in death? Will it be but another copy of the Shakespearean classic?
It wasn’t…
… it was far more atrocious and plain horrid.
Two families in a feud that started over… nothing. Miscommunication. Lack of dialogue. Can there be anything more pathetic and counter-productive? Can there be a reason more pitiful for decades worth of mindless strife, strife that wasn’t even honorable, or meaningful? I hate such scenarios. I despise them.
A friend of mine, hailing from the wonderful country of Kyrat, was once engaged in a wonderful conversation. He met a rather destructive individual for dinner and told him: “So then you must be the other guy, who didn’t listen, and decided instead to join the other monkeys and start throwing his shit around.” Oh, there was a tonne of manure being tossed in this episode. And while the idea that talking things through and caring not for “being the one right” is reasonable, stories like the one in “Hooffields and McColts” give me an aneurysm...
Nyerguds: Well, pitiful and ridiculous as it may be, most feuds are indeed about little things that spiral out of control, exactly like that (though they usually involve more murder, which, admittedly, is not a “little thing” at all). It struck me as peculiar from the start that both sides lacked the skills they needed from the other side. It was a bit of a surprise that that didn’t end up being part of the solution, but was in fact part of the origin of it all. They didn’t end up burying the hatchet and working together because of these complementing skills, but their ancestors did originally settle there together because of them. As for the question… I don’t think taking sides here is particularly useful, though I have to give Ma Hooffield credit for the Trojan Cake.
"I have to completely revise Chapter 18! Charity isn't supposed to kiss Applesack until after she's discovered Applesack is a war hero!"
Nyerguds: Awwright. First of all... thanks to YouTube correcting the episode title to "Hatfields and McCoys" when I looked it up, I briefly read up on these colourful characters on wikipedia before watching the episode, meaning, I had a fairly good idea it was going to be about a family feud. Beyond that... well, I doubt it'd be about anything more specific, and besides, always better to just experience it, right?
So, Twilight's first time getting a Booty Call, apparently. (I regret nothing! 
) Loved the classic Twilight overreaction and overpreparation there. I was actually a bit disappointed that they didn't put in a little gag where the balloon failed to fly until she lightened the load somewhat. Alas, poor Fluttershy was stuck with her saddlebags full of overpreparation for the rest of the episode.
Rednecks! Stereotypes are funny, no doubt about it. And MLP's way of giving everything happy endings doesn't even actually make it look like they’re making fun of them. I bet their character designers have tons of fun thinking them up. Trojan cakes are pretty hilarious, too. Saw that coming a mile away. Beware Rednecks Bearing Gifts, I guess.
I liked the balance between the characters in this episode. Twilight is always kind of frantic and trying to apply book knowledge, where Fluttershy is not only more attentive to detail, but her shying away from the big people talking actually means she manages to solve it. Throughout the whole thing she seems to act as voice of reason to counter Twilight's frantic nature. In the end, it seems the only reason Twilight was there was because Fluttershy's too timid on her own. I suppose this could've been a Fluttershy-only episode, actually. Add one single account of a critter actually getting hurt in the battle, and oh boy, we'd see some serious divergent strabismus as the Stare intimidates both sides of the valley at the same time. And c'mon. We need more Stare Fluttershy. Stare Fluttershy is awesome.
Anyone else think Twilight was kind of unnecessary here?
Prane: A few words about the balloon, since you mentioned it. Did you guys know it’s called the Twinkling Balloon? Only in some merchandise, granted, but it’s still a fun little fact I just learned. Anyway, the last time we saw it was by the end of Season 3 when Fluttershy paid Cherry Berry a couple of bits to use it. Assuming it wasn’t a scam back then, where was its owner now? Where was everypony? I don’t get to say that often this season, but the visual team did a poor job in that scene. Is Ponyville a ghost town now? Not a single background pony trotting by, no shops rich in detail in the background, only a couple of huts slapped without a second thought so that the shot could have a few frames of Fluttershy crawling towards the landing pad? That’s just lazy design!
Now, I wouldn’t say that Twilight was unnecessary, even if she wasn’t the one who provided the ultimate solution. At first I intended to say here that neither was Fluttershy, because those were the animals who provided the backstory, and that Twilight could probably cast some spell to talk to them, but then I realized she wouldn’t even consider them a side in the conflict, which proves that Fluttershy was more instrumental here. About animals and talking to them, isn’t the idea of Furry Friends Book Club awesome? That’s probably one of the thing Fluttershy established for her packs and flocks thanks to the money they earn for her (that would be a Scare Master review reference).
Still, Twilight did her part by providing the possible and reasonable solutions from her Friendship Portfolio, but what’s more important we could see how she approaches her royal status. She’s grown quite confident in her role as the Princess of Friendship! Like you said, the balance was alright in this case, and I feel neither of the lead characters was left out.
Gulheru: Twilight? Unnecessary? You must be joking, my dear friend! She might be clueless and out of touch with reality, but she is far from unnecessary! If anything, she should be a source of cheap entertainment…
Alright, I’ll stop being mean. Well, I won’t, but I shall suppress my urges.
I think that both Fluttershy and Twilight had their moments in the episode. The Princess of Friendship tried to use reason, rationale, science even, while our dearest caretaker came forth with empathy towards those caught in this… damnable conflict.
Perhaps I would be slightly criticising of the way Twilight behaved during the story. “Yay, we have spoken with both sides, we’ve told them it’s silly, let’s go.” She, after all those years of studying Friendship, should really know better already, don’t you think? After betrayals, schemes, intrigues and dark forces at play, don’t you believe she would be a lot more… respectful towards the encountered problems? Rather than going: “Any second now… any second now…” like a mentally deficient mercenary who just put a shotgun slug into his comrade’s face, sending skull and balaclava particles all over the place?
SoloBrony: I did notice that Ponyville felt a bit empty. Actually, the whole episode felt really weird to me in terms of tone, setup, and background detail, to the point that it feels almost like a fan-made episode to me at times. I did in fact feel like Twilight was sort of incidental… and now that you’ve got me thinking about it, my conspiracy theory about this episode tying into the Friendship Games stinger is just getting more appealing. Just making me more paranoid by the day, eh? That said, I definitely got the sense that Twilight’s role in the episode was just to keep them there, working towards a solution, until Fluttershy figured out what had happened; she kind of felt like a background fixture in this episode, where the focus seemed clearly on Fluttershy (as established by the opening shot/scene). She served as comedic relief by being so panicky, though I’m not a big fan of those gags, and acted as a focal character to draw attention from Fluttershy. I suppose that’s the kind of teamwork a timid character would want.
"They put us into the cannon, asking where our Goddess was. It's funny they said that, 'cause right then, Goddess showed up."
SoloBrony: So we’ve had two Twilight episodes back-to-back, near the end of the season. The previous one had her mention time travel explicitly, and this one had some odd discrepancies that were pointed out above.
I’mma just call the foreshadowing for the finale here, and move on to the review.
This isn’t stating anything new, but I found this episode was sort of ho-hum overall; the moral was a sort of inoffensive, obvious/well-trod aesop, and I felt like there was a total lack of character development; instead of really getting to see how the characters interacted, Twilight mostly went and did her own thing, leaving Fluttershy behind to do her own thing, and we didn’t get a lot of meaningful dialogue or anything between them. The characters in the episode - the titular Hooffields and McColts - were introduced and glossed over so briefly as to come across as shallow caricatures, tying the plot together but not really getting enough attention to make them interesting as individuals.
That probably sounds more scathing than I intend it to come across, but I feel like I need to draw a direct parallel to Griffonstone here; that episode felt like it took some serious time with each of the characters, even though each one is only on-screen for a couple of minutes at most. We don’t really get to delve deeply into any of the Griffons’ lives, but the sense that there’s depth is all around; you clearly get the depressed, impoverished, self-centered and desperate nature of their existence at-a-glance, and how that shapes their interactions is demonstrated with some clever scenes. Plus tons of character interaction and development.
Comparing the two here, I feel like the difference in background-character/community depth/development is stark, and meaningful interaction between the characters is almost nonexistent; Twilight is so focused on solving the problem that she seems to barely register that Fluttershy is there. For that matter, she barely seems to hear or understand what the other characters are telling her; everything is filtered through the lens of solving the problem, and anyone not on-board with that isn’t making sense to her.
It can be funny, at times, and it’s an interesting character quirk, but I felt like the episode missed some serious potential. To me, it’s okay, but I’ve outright loved most of Season 5 so far, so that’s what I am comparing it to. So what about you guys? Do you feel like the episode had the potential to be one of the greats? And did you even like Griffonstone?
inb4 entire episode is made funnier in retrospect by timey wimey finale.
Nyerguds: You have a point there… these Hooffields and McColts actually looked like interesting characters, but they didn’t get the tiniest bit of character development. Of course, there’s always the balance between the story they want to tell, and the “twenty minute episode” thing. I really liked Griffonstone, actually. Not only was it great to see Gilda again, in her own context, but overall, the place had character. Sure, it was rather dilapidated character, but it was interesting. And the end of that was nifty too, with them deciding that they didn’t really need some mystical artifact to just improve themselves and their community.
Prane: Not really, I can’t think of any way this episode could have been turned into a great, impossible to forget classic of the series. The conflict was between two sides that we have just met, will likely never meet again, and having little impact on the local universe since they’re living in a pretty isolated area, so why would we care about them? It’s like sometimes in movies a character dies, and there’s an attempt at that really emotional scene, but the audience can’t feel a thing because they didn’t know them long enough, they never rooted for them. If the sides of the conflict were more real, perhaps? Ponyville, Apples vs. Carrots conflict with a strong hint that the Carrots are the ones that are slightly more right? That would be something else, I guess. At least in the Lost Treasure of Griffonstone we got Grandpa Gruff and his tale to convince us we should care about the fate of the griffons. Their society and race (at least the ones living in Griffonstone) is in a decline, and if something won’t be done about it, there will be no more griffons at all! Hooffields and McColts? Extinguish their existence and nothing happens, instances of the butterfly effect excluded.
As for Twilight and Fluttershy, Clearly they wanted to show Twilight as the self-proclaimed driving force behind solving friendship problems whereas Fluttershy was more of a sidekick. When Fluttershy was dropping her own name after Twilight’s introductions, I was even expecting her to say, ‘Uhm, I’m with her. Don’t mind me.’ type of thing instead. In both Griffonstone and Manehattan episodes, the starting point for the characters was: ‘We don’t know what’s going on here, so we need to figure it out.’ while in here it was more like ‘We don’t know what’s going on here, so I—Twilight Sparkle, the Princess of Friendship—need to figure it out. Fluttershy got sent with me for some reason, but I’m not going to ask myself why the map would think she’s important to solving the problem, especially since I—Twilight Sparkle, the Princess of Friendship—am here.’
Gulheru: As a person who did not enjoy the episode (I think I’ve made it blatant already), I have to agree that the bland presentation of characters was, indeed, one of the many reasons. I did not once before state, that “cardboarding” a story is one of the worst crimes that a writer can do and, yes, indeed, I do find the Smokey Mountains and the adventure that took place there to be wafer-thin…
Although I really do believe that, instead of trying to find the potential of the story, we should focus on trying to salvage what we can from the episode. If there is one lesson that I think we should all embrace is that senseless fighting is foolish, leads to waste of resources and leaves those caught in between to suffer. And perhaps the next time anyone decides to start a centuries long feud, he or she will simply ask one simple question first…
… what’s the bloody point?
Hold Person, Mass. Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]. Level: Sor/Wiz 7. Components: V, S, F/DF. Casting time: 1 standard action.
Gulheru: You see, the episode was so unbelievably hard for me to watch and think about, it has taken me incredibly long to even attempt to start my part of the blog. And, frankly, I still have only the vaguest of ideas about what I wish to write here.
Perhaps I will simply let the Father of Understanding guide me and ask you to invoke a little brainstorming in my stead. If you could be the writers for this episode and have been told to cause a long-lasting quasi-war between two families of… lower than standard civility, what kind of more interesting idea for the feud would you come up with?
Death? Deceit? Religious differences? Indulge me, if you shall be so kind.
Or just write your critique about the two clans and their barbarism. That would be fun to read for me too...
SoloBrony: I’d want whatever started the feud to be an important lesson in itself. The idea that two people simply disagreed on how to use land (that neither could really use on their own) did come across as a bit silly, though I can buy how such a little thing might escalate a bit. Still, I think I’d prefer a feud started over a broken friendship that could really teach Twilight something meaningful, or maybe reflects a past lesson; for instance, what if one of the two founders of the town had been prone to panicking, like Twilight in Lesson Zero, and the other one dismissed all of their fears without a second thought, potentially even mocking them for their excitability?
While that would sort of paint one of them as the “bad guy”, it could be that the panicky one grossly overreacts to this perceived slight. Or, alternatively, there could be a situation where one of the founders doesn’t realize how important something is to the other, and this eventually causes the other founder to do something rash, similarly to the scenario in Tanks for the Memories (but without the mane 6’s recognition of Dash’s problem), thus causing Twilight to realize how fragile friendship can be if it’s not maintained; that could be a really meaningful lesson in itself, and it could tie the entire season together if pulled off well. Heck, paying attention to - and caring about - things that other people say/think/feel that doesn’t seem reasonable to you seems to be a major unifying theme of Season 5; I’m thinking of Bloom and Gloom, Scare Master, Make New Friends But Keep Discord, What About Discord, and a few others.
I realize that’s just Lesson Zero redux, but seeing the inevitable result of that one being ignored (Oh, hey, we saw a bit of that with Amending Fences) could be a really touching moment; even if the families involved lacked development, Twilight would be staring at the potential results of… well, failing in her duties as the Princess of Friendship. This is exactly the worst-case scenario she’s there to prevent, along with Amending Fences. Having it hit her as emotionally as that episode (I’m thinking of a flashback where she replaces the two founders with two of her friends, for instance) could be really fascinating. Sorry for rambling, I hope you find that idea an interesting proposal for a replacement premise.
Nyerguds: To be fair, it wasn’t that simple; the whole thing was tied to that specific situation in that valley. As I said before, feuds often start with misunderstandings or accidents that make tempers fly out of control. The real problem is that such feuds often start with or involve murders and lovers, two things which might be just a tad too heavy for the scope of this cartoon. Well. I bet Steven Universe could pull it off.
Prane: A feud is a result of multiple acts of hostility which amassed over time and were not discussed or otherwise resolved soon enough due to indifference on one or both sides. In case presented in the episode, should we consider the act of being careless with the pots the event which started the feud, or the retaliation aimed at the shelter? Probably neither, as Fluttershy says about the two stallions ‘fighting back and forth until it turned into a feud’. That said, you could add just about anything to the equation summing up the genesis of the conflict and it would not change the outcome one bit. You want one of them being jealous over some pretty mare that made a mistake of falling in love with the other? You got it! One of them preferring Princess Celestia over Princess Luna? Sure, why not! Anything goes, and if anything goes, all variables are equally (ir)relevant. By the way, if the soil was soft enough for planting the seeds, would it be also sufficiently sturdy to support the foundations of a building? Hmm.
Apologies for not quite addressing your question, but to be honest, if I were the writer I would only tweak Twilight and Fluttershy a bit, but not change the background which really was good enough for me. In every show there’s time for getting your audience to the edge of their seat, and time for allowing them to sit back and relax. It goes without saying what we got this time, but a deep breath is just what you need before diving deep into a real adventure.
Twilight was unnecessary to the plot, but not the the story. Twilight was getting character development by being useless in a way that disclosed her character, and hopefully taught her a lesson.
3665922
True. Even despite the whole princess thing, the main characters learning lessons about friendship is still what the series is about, I guess.
That was the point. That was also the central reveal of Fallout: Equestria.