Frenemies Talk, Chapter XVII feat. Manaphy and DuncanR

Frenemies Talk, Chapter XVII: Crusaders of the Lost Mark

"Alright Gulheru, take it easy, it's just a Crusaders' episode. They will be stupid, cause an issue, learn an obvious lesson and we can advance onto more pressing concerns..."

My usual reaction to an episode like this. So, imagine my surprise when we were granted with this... this masterpiece. Truly, a shining gem in this season, if not in the entire series, as we see a much overdue conclusion of a story arc five seasons in the making. So, Prane and I, we grabbed our old buddy Manaphy and a new associate of ours, DuncanR, to help us out in dealing with this work of art!

Tear-inducing spoilers. I swear it.

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STEP 1: Make Pipsqueak the president; STEP 2: Make him feel he owes us; STEP 3: ???; STEP 4: Profit!

Prane: I usually begin these by outlining some smart parallel between an episode and something that we’ve learned in the past seasons, but this time I’ll start with voicing my feelings straightaway: that was an absolute god-tier episode! Seriously, it was that good. There wasn’t a single scene that I would throw away as redundant, there wasn’t a single joke that felt forced.

Instead, it provided a ton of character development in a riveting musical that kept me on the edge of my seat to the very end. Running the campaign for the ‘transplant from Trottingham’ was a funny and educational excuse to commence the origins story of Diamond Tiara and why she’s so mean (we all know that ‘mean’ isn’t the word I’m thinking of right now), and the CMCs tying it all together were brilliant, mostly because that wasn’t their usual ‘our life sucks because we don’t have our cutie marks’-type of episode some of us have been dreading since S1. After a thrilling chase sequence we’ve learned a lot about Diamond Tiara who got her talent sort-of explained, but most importantly she got her redemption arc. Anyone who knows my writing is aware how much I love the characters that at the end of the day emerge nobler and, well, better that before. Rising above your limitations, proving the entire world—and, most importantly, yourself—that you can be more, now that’s my kind of story.

Oh, and the CMCs got their cutie marks. Neat.

SAY WHAT?

I feel that in terms of the show and its milestones, that’s an event comparable to Twilight getting her wings. It’s that big. I mean, sure, there’s nighttime eternal, there’s a changeling invasion, and there’s an empire emerging from its many years of being lost in time in space, but all those events pale in the sheer awesomeness of the CMC finally getting their cutie marks.

Alright, so if my notes and the amount of discussions on the forums are any indication, then this episode was packed with things to discuss. It’s better for us to start with some warm-up before we go into details. What are your overall thoughts about the story in this episode?

DuncanR: Brace yourself for a rant. I've got opinions, yo.

I hadn't even seen the trailer for this episode before I watched it. I wrote a prediction in advance of my viewing. Here it is in its entirety, unspoiled by the gift of hindsight:

“The CMCs go on an adventure to earn their cutie marks. They predictably fail to earn their cutie marks, but they do learn something about themselves. Probably something that is already blindingly obvious to their friends, their family, or we the audience. And nothing significant changes.

I may have mentioned elsewhere that I think the CMC episodes are fundamentally flawed. Because at the end of the episode, nothing important will ever happen. Because nothing ever changes. Those spineless writers and their soulless executive overseers wouldn't dare change something.

They. Wouldn't. Dare go there.”

Ladies and gentlecolts of the jury. They went there.

It brings me tremendous pleasure to announce that I was completely, utterly, wonderfully wrong. And also completely, utterly, wonderfully right. Simultaneously. Don't ask me how this works. It makes perfect sense I would love this episode, because it combines some utterly predictable cliches with a total reversal of expectations. I was initially very annoyed by the appearance of two songs in the space of five minutes. I was also very annoyed that the songs all contained blunt, hamfisted commentary on what exactly was happening and what characters were feeling. But then I thought "Ohhhh...it's a musical. Well that's okay." I then sat back, opened a bag of salt-and-vinegar chips, and enjoyed the rest of the episode. This sums up my response nicely: there were so many individual elements in this story that I would ordinarily despise, but because the execution was done so well, I never once complained. I'm a rabid supporter of "show don’t tell". But for some inexplicable reason, "sing don't show" makes me happy.

Now that I've rambled at length about what this episode wasn't, let's talk about what it was.

It was a musical. I didn't much care for any of the individual songs in this episode. But as a full-length musical, this episode somehow worked for me. It was a satisfying conclusion. This might be the longest running thread in the entire series, and they cashed in a hell of a lot of plot coupons... it was like watching money burn on screen. Glorious! It was a brilliant setup. The CMCs finally achieved their ultimate goal, but in a way that guarantees they'll have more Cutie Mark related adventures in the future, instead of dissolving the group and getting on with their lives. This totally threw me for a loop.

Finally, and most importantly for me, it was a conclusive, defining statement regarding what a cutie mark is. I went on record as saying my least favorite episode was "Bloom and Gloom." I hated that episode with the fiery passion of a thousand white hot suns... mostly because I felt it "ruined" cutie marks. I stand by my opinion, but obviously your mileage will vary wildly. By comparison, this episode was downright cathartic for me. We now know that Cutie Marks are a beginning, rather than an end. Simple. Elegant. Poetic. And waaaay better than anything I could've come up with. It also fits with the idea that a cutie mark symbolizes puberty and all the social pressure and awkwardness that comes with it. Kids are in such a hurry to grow up... but once you're older, you wish you'd stopped and smelled the roses.

In short, I loved this episode. It had everything working against it, and I still loved it. Even my brother, whose artistic judgment I hold in higher regard than my own, and who also hates most CMC-centric stories, gave this episode an unprecedented nine out of ten. I should mention how much I disliked the manner in which Twilight Sparkle earned her wings and became a princess... my brother said that episode "felt like a bad fanfiction," and there's no way I can top that. But this? This episode was was downright cathartic for me. The surprise transformation at the end felt in no way tacked on or slapped together.

Gulheru: Well… where… where does one even start? How does one even start talking about what just happened? Can one really measure the importance of an episode like this? I’m having trouble. Real trouble. We have seen character development before, we have seen changes, we have seen great moments. But… but the Crusaders stole them all.

Let me start with a simple enough fact. I’ve never respected the trio. I have found them naïve beyond belief, gullible, reckless and plain silly. Yes, yes, they are children, but even children can possess common sense, intelligence. And Apple Bloom, Scootaloo, Sweetie Belle have tested my patience for a long, long time. I was ready to be a lenient towards them at first, but their constant failures, misdeeds and misbegotten plans almost antagonized me towards them. I might be going a bit too far, but a CMC episode was for me a sign of more nerves on my part.

And… then this happened. Music, lesson, discovery of one’s true destiny. I usually can allow myself to rant and to talk hours about the topic, but, in this case, I am not going to. Because I don’t have to. We’ve been granted with an absolute masterpiece of an episode, one that I can mark my favorite in the season so far. We have seen redemption of a recurring bully-character, accompanied with really stellar music and… and we have arrived at a remarkable point in the story. The writers were not kidding when they have told us that the season would be the magic of cutie marks.

I’ve felt it. It struck me hard. And so I shall but stand back and not obstruct the view. A true gem of an episode. Absolute wonder.

Manaphy: Well, that was a thing that happened. Seeing the Cutie Mark Crusaders achieve their dream after trying for so long definitely was one of the highlights of not just this episode, but of the series. The fact that it aligned with the show’s fifth anniversary made it even more special, though one thing I will mention was how surprising it all was.

Sure, we’ve had some hints that something big is coming for the Cutie Mark Crusaders, their silhouettes on the teased Season 5 poster being one of them, though unlike the last time Friendship is Magic tackled a musical and a status quo changing episode (Magical Mystery Cure), most of us had no idea that their cutie marks would come this episode. And while it seemed so sudden, it was structured in such a way that made sense for the story. The Cutie Mark Crusaders all learned valuable lessons throughout the series, culminating in ones which related to cutie marks and their purpose. And while the marks were not what some envisioned them to be, I like how they were both unexpected in design and fit the characters. It also manages to give them a purpose for future episodes and Season 6, namely them helping ponies find their purpose like they did with Trouble Shoes and Diamond Tiara. It’s like the beginning of a new journey for them, and I’m excited to see where it leads them.

Speaking of Diamond Tiara, she, and by extension Silver Spoon, were my favorite parts of the episode. Seeing them get much needed character development was a dream come true, and not only was said development believable, it was also emotionally investing. We learned that Silver Spoon can go against Diamond when pushed too far and that there may be more to her than one thinks, and we learned a lot about Diamond regarding her true feelings, the relationship she has with her family, and so much more. While I wished they could’ve added more Silver Spoon, the development we got for both of them was wonderful, all topped with a heartwarming redemption for both of them. Here’s hoping they reappear and learn new things with their new perspective.

And while the music isn’t my favorite part of the show, the songs here were absolutely brilliant. Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon both have wonderful singing voices and the Cutie Mark Crusaders had great musical numbers as well. I could gush about this episode for hours, but I think those points are what I take away from the episode the most.

Meta-lesson. Children: strive to be who you want to be. Parents: don't impose your views on your children, but help them discover their own.

DuncanR: What did I enjoy most about this episode? The character development for Diamond Tiara. This was... unexpected? Maybe that's not the right word. She's been such a cardboard cutout prior to this point—such a mustache-twirling, top-hatted, monocled villain—that even the slightest speck of development would have been noteworthy. The fact that it happened wasn't shocking... it was bound to happen eventually, and the individual plot details weren't all that surprising (snotty, overbearing mother? Saw that coming). But it was handled magnificently, and I believe that a story idea is never as important as the quality of the execution. This portrayal of Deets was at turns predictable, but somehow added enough little twists and turns that it kept me guessing at the end.

I think one of the main reasons I was able to enjoy it was because the writers pulled a "headfake" on me. You think it's an episode about the CMCs... and it is, in the long run. But then it switches gears and becomes a full fledged Diamond Tiara episode without diluting either side of the equation. Which I love. Poor Deet’s been waiting in the wings for a while now, and she finally gets a chance to shine in a positive light.

And yet... something feels…

...Wait a minute. Something’s… not quite...

I KNEW IT! I... I KNEW IT ALL ALONG! SHE NEVER HAD ME FOOLED, NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND!!!

Ahem. Okay... so, seriously. Is anyone else impressed by Diamond Tiara's character development here? Because... I was impressed. I'm not even sure why. I certainly wasn't expecting to be impressed. I felt like Deet's redemption was a long time coming, and even though I thought it was handled very well, it didn't upstage the CMC's plotline.

Am I alone on this? What does everyone else think of Diamond Tiara's character? How she changed, and where she might go from here? Have your fanfictions been ruined forever?

Gulheru: I despise bullies.

Enough said. It might come from my school years, I admit, but it is based on rationale, to a degree. Achieving self satisfaction with pettiness and arrogance, with mindless persecution, is unbecoming of anyone even remotely intelligent. It ruins your reputation, makes you a target of retaliation. And there are far better ways of feeling satisfied from being superior to others. As an Advocate of Antagonists I can say that I do not tolerate mindless evil, petty evil and haughty evil. Waste of time and resources. As such, I am actually gladly letting go of Diamond Tiara. And… well, I am happy that I do.

Seeing the source of her inner pain was intriguing. And finding out that it might be in the most part caused by her mother, well, that put that little spoiled brat into a new perspective. Now, one might say that this truth is revealed slightly too suddenly, but somepony like Diamond Tiara would know how to hide her inner thoughts and doubts really well, as to not ruin her image. But, when she finally had a chance of changing her ways, she took it. Points from me. I’m happy to see her grow and “recover”.

I still believe that she might retain a little bit of her previous character. One does not change overnight, after all. Well, truth be told, we rarely change. If ever. Diamond Tiara was always like this. Uncertain, doubting, attempting to cope with it. We could never see that, though. Now we will be able to perceive a different aspect of her personality. Good, very good…

… now, one has to deal with one more issue. Her mother. Oh, how I would love to get my hands on her...

Manaphy: I loved Diamond Tiara’s character development. For me, it was the best part of the episode, and while I have mentioned how great it was before, there are a few things which stuck out to me. The most notable of these is, of course, the revelation that her mother’s influence resulted in her bullying others. At the surface, it seems rather basic, but the way in which the episode shows the extent to which her mother made Diamond become the bully she was and the clear anguish she expresses in that it isn’t who she truly is make such a relationship much more powerful. Combine that with one of the best songs in the series, and it takes a formally flat character which relied on theories and fanfics to stand out become a truly compelling character in her own right.

Other moments in the episode also caught my attention. Her relationship with Silver Spoon was expanded upon in this episode, such as how much Diamond grows to care for her, particularly in the end. This has the benefit of adding some development for Silver Spoon, with her facial expressions possibly hinting at a more sensitive side and is willing to lash out at Diamond when pushed too far by her. This sets the stage for Diamond’s part of the story, and once Diamond’s redemption is fully realized, we see her helping Silver Spoon construct a fence and her best friend giving her a bright smile and a kind nudge in one of the photographs. While Silver Spoon didn’t play a big role, there’s no denying that learning about how Diamond relates to her and both of their eventual redemptions were filled with heartwarming and emotional moments. I’ll admit, I liked both of them as characters before the episode, but these new revelations made them much more compelling.

And as for her new relationship with the Cutie Mark Crusaders, I do like how she adamantly tried to keep her emotions a secret, only to spill them out in the end. It does show more about the relationship with her mother, as mentioned before, but it also paves the way to her friendship with the trio. While I understand why the depicted relationship may seem a bit odd to some, the compassion of the Cutie Mark Crusaders and Diamond eventually willing to reveal who she is made for some of the most interesting interactions in the show. Kudos to Amy for making this premise and the character interactions work so well.

Prane: I find the connection Diamond Tiara and the Cutie Mark Crusaders share to be truly poetic. She was the one who brought them all together, who—in a way—created the opportunity for the CMC to be established so that the quest of the three could begin, and in this episode, she was the one who helped them complete it. For all those seasons Diamond Tiara’s unkind behavior was a constant of the universe, much like Twilight and her books or Applejack and her apples. We could always count on Diamond Tiara to be the bad element, which in turn made her the first recurring villain of the series. Yes, I’m saying villain, because although on the overall level I would call her a rather annoying antagonist, on the CMC’s (kids’) level, she was as close to a villain as one can get.

What struck me the most was the scene at the clubhouse. Although she veiled it in no small dose of sarcasm, Diamond Tiara admitted she didn’t actually know what her cutie mark meant. I imagine that once she got it, she was told to always use her talent of influencing others to her advantage. If it wasn’t for the CMC, she’d spend the rest of her life stressing and burning out while exerting others, but after what happened, I’m confident she’ll start using her skills for good.

It’s no secret that I’m a sucker for bad girls, because I firmly believe that underneath their shells there’s something wonderful to be discovered. I believe that they are just diamonds in a rough.

The Ponyville Elite. They're like the Canterlot Elite, except much poorer, less influential, and without the Royal Gardens at their disposal.

Gulheru: Considering my threats from the paragraphs above, I need to tackle one issue, showcased more than beautifully in the episode. Parental pressure.

Let me be frank, I have suffered that brand in my life. Perhaps not quite in the way that it is presented in the episode, but I can understand the constant demand of perfection and fulfilling dreams of one’s parents. It was not easy, it was not pretty, it might not ever be gone from me. Tartarus, it does not change the fact that, aside from that issue, I respect my mother and father and I cannot be more grateful for all the attention and care I have received from them. But the issue still stands.

When I have first seen Spoiled Rich I knew something was about to go down. When I have heard her voice, I felt like cringing. And when I listened to her “wisdom”, my guts wrenched. This… this is the kind of “evil”, the kind of behaviour that one cannot tolerate. It is petty… haughty… arrogant... Absolutely pettifogging. And I despise it. Oh, how I despise it.

Your children are not miniature versions of you. They have dreams, aspirations, ambitions. You need to let them grow, mature, make their decisions and find their own path in their lives. You should help them reach their goals, but not set them. You should aid them, not steer them. You should raise them, nurture them and not… train them like pets!

And so, I grant you this matter to discuss. What is your opinion on the weight of parenthood and upbringing? On being a responsible mother or father?

And how do you perceive people like Spoiled Rich? I hope badly… really, really badly...

Manaphy: I think we can all agree that Spoiled Rich is a terrible pony and a terrible parent. And while her mannerisms may seem a bit too irredeemable, it’s a kind of behavior which does exist in reality in some instances. Her purpose in the episode is to show why Diamond Tiara is a bully, which raises even more concerns about Spoiled Rich as a character. She did badmouth the Cutie Mark Crusaders in one scene much like Diamond Tiara did in earlier episodes. It wouldn’t be a surprise if Diamond Tiara learned the same insults and behaviors from her mother, given the similarities. Either way, I think we can all agree that she’s a bad pony. Why she’s a bully herself is up to speculation, given how Diamond was pressured into behaving like her.

And as for parenthood, it does show how much a child is influenced by his or her parents. Why such relationships came to be and whether the parental figure went through the same things his or her child endures is, of course, a matter of speculation. Either way, it does seem that Spoiled Rich is set on being aggressive in nature. Is she redeemable? Who knows. Diamond showed that ponies like her can be redeemed.

And as an aside, it does make the episodes with Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon much sadder in a way. It’s interesting what new kernels of knowledge about a character can do.

Prane: Narrative-wise, Spoiled Rich had the following purpose: she was introduced as a terrible parent with no redeeming qualities, and thus she was instrumental for her daughter’s redemption arc to work. By sucking out the general badness out of Diamond Tiara and transferring it to her mother, the filly was free to get her absolution, and we got a warm and fuzzy story. While it’s true that my very first reaction was to channel my inner Ron Swanson and say that although I never met her, she looks like she could use a swift punch in the face, the only way I could actually hit a cartoon character would be to write a story about her, but that would just a waste of resources.

However, if I was standing in Equestrian right next to her, I still don’t think I would unleash my wrath on her. After all, Diamond Tiara was just a poor product of her mother’s machinations. Perhaps Spoiled Rich was the one as well? Letting one go but condemning the other for the same thing would be some serious case of double standards. Maybe at some point of her life Spoiled Rich was also choosing between freeing herself from the shackles of her family’s demands and expectations and becoming what she had become, and the only unfortunate difference was that she didn’t get a trio to sing at her and motivate her? Her one-dimensionality was necessary for the story to work, but I refuse to believe she didn’t have her own struggles. So I will never hate her, but I will pity her. I hope that Diamond Tiara’s change will resonate outside the school yard and that during the next zap apple harvest, all the Riches will be jumping in that bunny suits!

DuncanR: Did anyone else notice that peculiar face Diamond Tiara made? That weird, upturned nose? Did anyone else notice that her mother made the exact same face later in the episode, with the exact same pose and camera angle and everything? I’d bet you dollars to donuts that this was a deliberate literary device employed by the writers. I don’t think Spoiled Rich necessarily wanted a daughter exactly like herself. I think she just ended up with a daughter exactly like herself. Obviously, some of Spoiled’s failed parenting was a conscious decision on her part. But we also know that Diamond Tiara’s talent for manipulating others works on her parents… perhaps it’s even more effective, since they’re willing to spoil her. Is this what happens when you give a child whatever they want, whenever they want it? Surely Spoiled Rich, herself, must have been spoiled as a filly. Perhaps it’s all she knows. What if she grew up as part of a poor, low-class family, and then married into wealth and status? Perhaps she swore no daughter of hers would ever go hungry or cold, or be made fun of for being poor or low-class.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Diamond Tiara’s snobbish behavior was mostly the result of “monkey see, monkey do,” or even a self-driven desire to live up to her parents standards. But these things also come in cycles… we rebel against our parents, who rebelled against their parents, giving rise to the idea that children can often relate more positively to their grandparents — and vice versa — than their actual parents. I would also encourage readers to consider the father’s role in all this: It’s all too likely that some of Filthy Rich’s ruthless business acumen rubbed off on Deets as well, giving her her selfish goal-oriented worldview. Exploit whatever… and whoever… you can.

I dunno. My parents were always extremely encouraging about me and my brother. They were always happy to let us be who we wanted… but sometimes, I wonder if we would have benefited from a little more direction in life. A little more discipline and determination. What would that have been like? Would I be more focused and successful as an adult? Either extreme can be disastrous, and Diamond Tiara’s problems seem more like the result of casual neglect. The greatest evil is not hatred, but indifference. The banality of evil.

Regardless, I desperately want to read a fic where Diamond Tiara uses her influence powers to try and make her parents into better ponies. Actually, no… the more interesting story is one where she has to learn when not to use her powers, and train herself to get by on good manners and honest charm. Hm… it’s obvious that her character just got a whole lot more interesting.

"Crusaders! Now that we finally know what we're good at, y'all want to get rid of those and earn them again?"

Manaphy: One subject I’ve seen many times already is where the Cutie Mark Crusaders will go regarding their new cutie marks. Some have claimed that their role in the show has come to an end, but with Season 6 confirmed to be happening, I highly doubt these claims. As I’ve mentioned, these marks aren’t an ending, but a beginning. It is mentioned how they’ll be helping other ponies find the meaning of their cutie marks, a noble goal given how Equestria functions, and immediately it opens the door to a variety of episodes and even fanfics. And it isn’t as though Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon’s roles have ended, either. While both were redeemed by the episode’s end, they still have room to grow and can learn new lessons about friendship and Equestria if the writing staff decides to go in that direction.

With that in mind, where do you think the Cutie Mark Crusaders will go from here? They could appear in episodes regarding their families or ones not dealing with cutie marks, as the series has shown in previous instances (Sleepless in Ponyville and Sisterhooves Social). However, they could also apply their knowledge from helping Diamond Tiara and Trouble Shoes in discovering the meaning or a new meaning about a pony’s cutie mark, sort of like some of the adventures and friendship tasks the Mane 6 have been sent on. So then, what are your thoughts about this?

Prane: For the first time in forever, the CMC have a chance to be actually useful to the society. Their quest continues, only that now, instead of trying out all those ways of getting a cutie mark themselves, they will be making others test those. I imagine some filly coming up to them, saying that she’s really into animals, and Sweetie Belle saying, ‘Have you tried tiger taming already? It’s a lot of fun! Nah, it’s not that dangerous. Trust me, I’m a cutie mark consultant!’ In a way, what happened to the CMC is a mirrored image of what happened to the Mane 6. Twilight and company have learned all there was about friendship and are now actively using that knowledge to help others. The CMC will be doing the same now. Perhaps without a fancy map, but with an awful lot of charts, tables, and lists of most unusual activities for their friends to try.

I predict it will be more of the same (as in, adventuring and stuff) but without the children drama and their cutie mark dilemmas. I’m fine with that, and I can’t wait to see more of Sweetie Belle’s magic in action!

DuncanR: To be honest, I don’t have too much to say on this topic… I do love that the CMCs are excited about the future, but I can’t say I’m too excited to see that future myself. For all the wonderful originality this episode had to offer, I suspect they’ll go back to having adventures together, same as always. Perhaps a little more grand in scale. I’m even a little bit sad about the nature of their marks, since many of my favorite CMC episodes were the ones that had nothing to do with finding your mark. I love just watching them hang out with each other or their families, and I worry they’ll be even more typecast than ever. I’m also worried about them helping others find or understand their cutie marks… seems a little similar to the mane Six, and their continuing quests to help others learn about friendship. I sincerely hope it doesn’t end up being a rip-off.

Regardless, the idea isn’t what matters. As long as these ideas are executed well, I’ll be content. This episode was executed magnificently well. But that’s not evidence that future episodes will be… and sometimes, it’s best to let your heroes ride off into the sunset.

Gulheru: I do not have too much hope that the Crusaders’ naïvete shall suddenly disappear, but perhaps it shall at least be well directed now. Ultimately, as long as those new episodes won’t be in the fashion of: “So… what do we do now?”, I think I shall be content. Besides, who says that anything that shall be thrown at us will have something to do with cuties marks? Crusaders’ episodes dealt with family issues, anxiety, meeting expectations. I do not think we should worry too much.

I shall agree with what was said above. As long as the premise of a story is believable and the execution does not fall short, I will be fine with anything, really. That is, if those adorable featherbrains shall not get themselves into trouble dealing with forces beyond comprehension (which they very well might, considering). I would shake my head at it and sigh, deliberating whether there is any redemption for them at all.

But, even then, I would be rooting for them. Secretly, of course. One must keep on appearances.

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To be fair, I'm still shaken with the episode, even though we have discussed it so thoroughly.

Many thanks to Manaphy and DuncanR, you guys were stellar! It's a pleasure doing reviews with creators like you.

Now, Prane and Yours Truly shall go and cure ourselves of shock, because we might be up for a bigger one next week, oh yes. Don't forget to tune in.

~Gulheru