So apparently I'm "controversial" now · 6:45am Aug 31st, 2015
As you guys (probably) know, I'm a member of a group called We Hate What's Happened to MLP, a group whose premise is that we obstensibly still like the concept of Pony, but in terms of execution we feel like it's gone all Konami on us, or Sega circa 32X and Saturn.
Now, you'll notice I made a topic about that "The Truth About Bronies" video there. If you read the topic you'll notice that the discussion starts out being more about me. And it was actually kind of surprising. Probably the most surprising was the guy who said "Guys, I know NGR is a controversial figure around here, but can we please discuss the video?"
(and to their credit, the discussion since then has indeed been strictly about the video).
But wow. I'm controversial? Really?
The thing is, apparently what I'm controversial for is calling out brony bullshit. That is to say, everyone knows the bad aspects of bronydom--in particular the honesty thing that the video pointed out (indeed some of his points pretty much echo what I said in my "How to Argue Like a Brony" blog entry).
Which.... was one of the foundations of the "We Hate What's Happened" group. No, seriously, go back to its beginning and you will find many threads--not just me but almost everyone--talking about Brony excuses and behaviors they don't like or find infuriating. Just for some examples. All you have to do is go to the last page of the forum and then work your way back from there and you'll find plenty of topics about brony bullshit.
So essentially, I'm "controversial" for being the last of the old guard, the guy who is doing what the group has always done.
It's sad, really.... the problem is that "We Hate What's Happened" has now, itself, been taken over by bronies, who came there under the guide of wanting to offer "more balanced discussion." To be fair, the group had become pretty much a circlejerk and a lot of the same subjects and points were being retreaded. However, the people who claimed to be "balancing" were really pretty much attacking anyone who criticized the show. One constantly posts sarcasm and snarky remarks, another twists words and puts arguments in your mouth and then tells you how stupid those are, and the third spoils for a fight but then tries to pretend to be oh-so-moral and above it all. All three have this tactic of insulting people, then saying "I'm taking the high road by ignoring you" over fights they basically started (by the way, taking the high road doesn't work when you announce that you're doing it).
And naturally, I called them out about this.
And they proceeded to (though this was before I discovered the video) not only prove the video's point, but also prove all my accusations right... indeed, they did very many of the things I claimed they do in the very thread where they denied doing those things.
See, that's another reason I'm controversial: Because I'm usually right. Indeed, pretty much anyone who is "controversial" is only so because they actually have a point. Martin Luther King Jr. was controversial because racism really was a prevalent problem. Anita Sarkeesian is controversial now because--flawed though her evidence may be--its self-evident that gaming culture has a misogynistic element to it. And I'm controversial among bronies because I point out flaws in their fan-culture and they can't (convincingly) deny those flaws, nor can they (convincingly) prove that those flaws aren't unique to bronydom.
Oh, don't get me wrong: every fandom has idiots and assholes. You know what every fandom DOESN'T have? People so obsessed that they will shout out little girls in real life, in public stores, over the storytelling of a cartoon, scaring a little girl who doesn't even understand why this guy shouting at her about Derpy or Luna or whatever is so upset about because she only watches it, she doesn't read fanfiction or anything-- Oh, sorry, just remembering a bad trip to a video store. And I wish that had been a one-off thing but it wasn't. The only other group like this I've met in real life is Tropers (and I hate them too), but at least all Tropers do is speak in stupid memes that mark them as idiots.
That's been my problem for awhile: See, I don't mind dumbass fandoms when they're strictly on the internet. The internet, for all intents and purposes, is a video game. When I turn the computer off, it stops mattering. For most people, who they are online is NOT who they are offline. The problem with Bronies and Tropers, then, is that they're something from the internet that unfortunately has spilled over into meatspace. A brony will (in the worst cases) be a brony in the streets as well as on his computer.
That, simply put, SHOULD NOT BE.
And Bronies, if you can't stand being criticized... maybe you should stop doing things that are criticism-worthy? Just a thought.
Picking fights that aren't worth it
For what it's worth, I apologize about the "controversial" comment. I just wanted to discuss the goddamn video, but everybody else seemed to be interested in calling out you and your character. You have every right to hold your opinions and voice them, and while I disagree with a fair number of them, it's not right that every time you post a topic you get half the damn group swarming down your throat.
3359912 Actually, you don't need to apologize. Calling someone controversial is not an insult. Besides, that I am controversial is self-evident. Jawjoe said it best: "it's funny how many people want [me] gone when [I'm] the only one keeping the group alive."
The only people who did anything wrong are the three bronies I called out in my Open Letter.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra
Who gives a fuck?
3360243 Well, consider that four different people (not counting myself) replied to this blog entry....
3362376
Four people too many, bruh.
NGR did you ever wonder why it seems that anywhere you go leads to arguments and people disliking you? Even the people that agreed with your overall opinion that the show became awful still ended up disliking you and your attempts at debating your points. Maybe -- just maybe -- you're the common factor that's the cause of that.
Every fandom and online group has its people who do stupid things IRL or say dumb things on the internet. Even things that aren't even cohesive interest groups, like 4chan. Even anime fans actually speaking weebspeak or marrying body pillows. And so on.
If you don't like that bronies do stupid things sometimes, okay, but we're hardly unique.
3364551 Umm, yeah, I'm well aware that I'm the common factor.
Thing is, I take it to mean I'm saying things they don't want to hear/want to be told because it bursts their little bubble, which is more than likely the case. Pretty much every time someone is "controversial" its because they're pointing out things that need to change. Look at Martin Luther King Jr or hell, Jesus Christ.... people so controversial that society literally killed them. And for what? Saying blacks and whites should live in peace in one instance, and pointing out corruption in the church in the other.
Ergo I would think that instead of saying "you're the common factor, therefore YOU are the bad guy," it might behoove you (no pun intended) to examine just what it is I'm saying that's making people mad. Or just look through my blog, where I've spelled it out plenty of times. Actually I might've deleted the more extreme posts... gotta double-check that.
3366079
Yeah, don't compare yourself to people who changed society, because you're not. You're using your 'revolutionary' mindset as an excuse for being a dick. You're whining on a blog on a site about ponies and complaining because people call you out on your bullshit and don't agree with you.
"Everyone else is wrong and I'm right" is such a healthy mentality.
You're such an awesome person, NGR. That's why everypony loves you so much.
3366079
You know who else is controversial? Donald Trump. Yet somehow I doubt he's pointing out the truth when he calls Mexican immigrants rapists. The people over on /pol/ are also controversial, but they aren't right when they say to nuke the middle east. Pastors that say homosexuals rape kids are also being controversial. Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, George Bush, and Richard Nixon, all controversial figures.
Being controversial -- a title often used by loud idiots -- doesn't make your observations right, and it doesn't mean people disagree with you just because you popped their little bubble.
3366787
3366797
Let me point out some things here.
First of all, nothing I've said is anywhere near the level of saying "all Mexicans are rapists" or the various racist/misogynistic/sick things you're likely to hear on a 4chan board. So there's a definite difference in scale here.
Secondly, there's also the nature of the reactions.
I've seen how the internet reacts to genuine jerks. People will express outrage and leave it at that, or ignore the jerk altogether. My statements though have resulted in things such as people adding my blog to their watch list just to be informed of new blog posts so they can post flaming comments, following me to other groups so they can respond to every post in every group I'm a part of, and several people following me here from a completely different website just to continue attacking me (one person even saying he was going to PM everyone I talk to so "they'll all know how bad you are!" That last, by the way, was merely because I pointed out how offensive One Bad Apple was to real bullying victims)....
Yeah, no. That's not the way grown, rational, well-balanced people react to a guy they only know on the internet.
Now compare my actions. Have I ever stalked anybody? Have I ever made an account at an internet forum just to harrass somebody who posted an opinion of a cartoon? Have I ever added somebody to my watch list so I could respond flamingly to all their posts?
Indeed the worst even my critics have accused me of is "getting mad when I disagree," which even if it was true, would be pretty light compared to the actions my critics take (which, keep in mind, if they were doing the same things in meatspace it would be grounds for a restraining order. As it is there were actually two harrassers who got so bad a mod had to threaten to bounce them if they didn't stop).
Indeed even the accusation "I get mad when people disagree" is wrong--any topic I've been involved in shows the exact opposite: I handle disagreement just fine, and usually do not get mad until the other person gets hostile first, and even then usually its when they start posting lies or outright twisting my words that I blow up. Indeed, the ones who "can't handle disagreement" are the bronies, as very often they blow up just for not being agreed with. And yet I'm the one accused of it. It's almost like someone is projecting....
And see that's the thing: I'm "controversial" basically for something that isn't true, but which my critics WISH was true, and there's a large element of obsession and projection in it, not to mention the times they want to ignore or twist the issue and revise history so a discussion was about one thing when it was actually another, or claim a discussion went one way when actually reading the discussion oneself shows it went completely different (and usually shows me in the more favorable light, especially when you consider the follow-up events). "Bad Writing Influences" for example.
That's what I've always said, and what the video in my previous post said: Bronies aren't honest. They can't accept responsibility and often transfer it (to be fair, that's pretty much the entire western world at this point), downplay their faults or pretend they don't exist while exaggerating the faults of those they perceive as "enemies," and they twist the truth, often to the point of outright lying. And when confronted with this, they dismiss the accusation as "whining," because its easier to dismiss truth than to confront it. Bronies simply don't have the mental fortitude to really examine themselves. They'd probably be scared by what they see.
3368632
Sorry, didn't read most of that comment. I only skimmed it.
3368806 I understand. After all, its tough actually proving anything you say is true or refuting evidence of the opposite, so any excuse to ignore an argument (and thus, never have to read or refute it) must be taken, right?
Stuff like this is precisely why Bronies look bad to non-bronies.
3370731
I actually skimmed it for two reasons,
1) proving a point of this 'argument' would imply that I actually care about it or you, which I do not
2) Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall, because no matter how many people tell you that you're mistaken, you will always believe that you're right. Even if you have to make up stories to believe that you're right.
And this, this will be my last post on this blog and likely my last response to you. I hope you enjoy your little corner of NGR land.
3371137
Oh for G-ds sake. If you didn't care then you would never have made any comment whatsoever and usually people who make 'I don't care' comments are very invested indeed in having the last word.
You complete moron, you fail at every level.
Nice job not adressing any points made whatsoever and just throwing mildly insulting sarcasm.
For the record I have changed NGRs opinion on a few things, it doesn't happen very often but it is doable.
3370731
Y'know, about this part:
I agree with your message 100%. In fact, I agree with it so much, I took the liberty of hunting down an example of you doing the exact thing you accuse TGM of doing. Weird, right?
For time's sake, bottom of your post, second to last paragraph:
To be fair this is at the end of a substantially long post, but when you outright admit to skimming over someone's arguments, how can you justifiably be indignant at someone for doing the same to yours?
3371802 The thing is Kami was going off making rebuttals to arguments I wasn't even making in the first place. It is tiring and pointless to read a response when its not even talking about the same thing you were trying to discuss. To use an example, if the discussion was about role-playing games and someone suddenly posted an essay-length argument about sharks in the middle of the discussion, skimming that would be justifiable.
In TGM's case, he accused me of a thing and I presented counter-evidence. That's kinda sorta how discussion is supposed to work, and by saying he "skimmed" it he's essentially saying he's not gonna listen to any point I make, no matter how valid.
It doesn't surprise me anymore, considering I'm talking to two guys who accuse me of being a big meaniehead and yet completely miss the irony of going to said person's personal blog to tell him what a dick he is. I say again: Do you ever see me go to blogs of people I dislike just to tell them what meanieheads they are?
3371137 Yeah, BrunnenG pretty much nailed it.
In addition, I love how you skim points you can't answer, declare you "don't care" and then accuse me of being like a brick wall. Pot, kettle, black.
I'd like to add another fine point here: Both you and PegasusMesa are reading this of your own volition. Nobody made you come to my blog, and I never advertised the existence of this or any other entry. So I have two guys who came looking for me just to tell me how bad I am. To most norma people, that's creepy and obsessive, but as we've established, Bronies aren't normal.
3372141
Just thought I'd point out a moment of hypocrisy. How you go about justifying it for your own conscience is your own business, not mine.
On a side note, I'm a bit sick of being called a brony because I argued with someone. You're probably more of a brony than I am at this point. I mean, you do identify as such in your user bio.
3372186
.... See, THIS is how you're supposed to do it. This, right there. This cut to the quick. Not even being sarcastic.
The reason I called you a brony is because I see you defend the show more often than not (indeed I don't think I ever saw you present a criticism of it). But self-identification is far more damning. Keep this up and you might soon be a worthy opponent.
This, right here, is a classic example of an ESA-like tendency to ignore context and instead say "all instances of X are bad, regardless of why they happen."
Conscience had nothing to do with it. It's logical, it's reality. I mean, real-life courts of law already view "shooting someone in self-defence" as different from "shooting someone in cold blood," but when you make statements like this, it comes off like you would consider them one and the same. That's what makes it hard to reason with you.
That kind of stuff is also why Humanity gave up on you, BTW.
3374770
Y'know, I could've sworn I just saw something similar to this.
C'mon, guy, these quotes were only five or six posts apart from each other; that's not nearly enough space for you to contradict yourself and get away with it.
3374966 It's official. PegasusMesa doesn't get the concept of "context."
Must be hard going through life like that. You probably consider it a "contradiction" if your sister asks for a cheeseburger and then gets mad when you give her one made out of play-doh.
We have so much in common. I think we're both considered "controversial".