Why You Should Be Good At FimFic (And Why I Care if You Are.) · 4:23pm Aug 25th, 2015
Well, the comments of the last post went here, so I might as well make this a new post.
So, many of you know that I finished an original fiction novel before I joined fandom. Many of you also know that I agreed to publish it with a small press publisher shortly after that. It’s been three years, I wouldn’t blame any of you for assuming the whole thing crashed, and it tried to, but it turns out it’s still there. The editorial staff at the publishing company is back on its feet, and we’re working on getting the book out by this November.
In the mean time, I’m trying to get the book to look somewhere near as good as I now know I’m capable of writing. I’ve improved that much in the past three years. And I asked a friend from FiMfic to have a look at it, and he gave me some great editing suggestions that my actual editor didn’t suggest, but which I think will really help.
It’s still not going to be the best I could do, if I was starting from scratch today. But by the time that was published, it probably wouldn’t be the best I could do either. I comfort myself by reminding myself that The Color of Magic wasn’t the best Terry Pratchett could do either, but it was good enough for a start.
I’m telling you guys all of this because I want to make it clear: FimFiction helped me. It helped me to be a better writer. It introduced me to smart people, who I trust to talk about writing and stories and to offer good ideas and advice.
When I look at this site, I see some amazing writers and editors, who are working on a professional level, and helping each other to push themselves even farther, or in new directions. Some of them have a lot of followers, and some of them don't. That doesn't matter.
And I see even more writers and editors who are trying to work on that level. Some of them have a lot of followers, and some of them don't, and that also doesn't matter.
And I see readers and reviewers, and those professional level writers and editors working with the people who are trying to improve, helping them, giving them new ways to think about writing. How many followers any of those people have isn't important, but what's very important is that they find each other, somehow.
Because I firmly believe that in the future, we’ll help each other even more. That if you’re a writer or an editor, the friendships you make here on Fimfiction will help you get published, will try to get you jobs with their publishers or hire you to help get their books into shape. I believe that a few people from here, I don’t know who, will write or work on famous books. And they’ll probably remember and help the people who helped them get there. And that's not even counting all of the help we can other each other through personal connections and friendships.
I wrote my blog post yesterday because I’ve been on the outside of things before, and I probably will be again someday, and nothing gets my sympathy like someone who’s on the outside just because they can’t figure out how to get in. It’s not just a matter of showing up. There are cliques.
You know what a clique really is? A clique is a group of friends who like the interactions they have with each other, and worry that adding more people would make things less comfortable for them.
Not everyone can, or should, be friends with everyone else. Not everyone can, or should, help everyone else. Sometimes there are people you just don’t get along with. Sometimes there are people you like perfectly fine, but don’t, like, look forward to hanging out with. This doesn’t make anyone involved mean or evil. We all have limited time and resources, and we spend those on things we enjoy.
What I wrote yesterday was a guide to showing people that you’re someone they might enjoy spending time with and helping. It might be enough to help you break into a clique. You might just make friends, and find through your interactions that you’ve formed your own clique, and look for people who would add to that. You might get to know people in a lot of different cliques and move between them in different situations.
I can’t be everyone’s best friend or mentor. Even if I could, I probably don’t know you, maybe we wouldn’t get along at all. But I really, really want you to find the people who can be your best friend or mentor. And I want to tell you everything I know about how to do that.
This is important to me, because I think special things, above and beyond MLP fanfic, will come out of our community here, and I want everyone to benefit from that as much as they want to and are capable of.
I hope that’s not cynical, I don’t feel like it is. I feel like it’s the opposite of cynical. I’m generally assuming that we’ve all had Friendship 101 here, and know better than to be selfish or dishonest or mean, and that even if we slip up sometimes we’re trying to be good friends.
I recognize that the real world isn’t Equestria. There are complex situations where no one will win, but I don’t see that as a reason not to try to help each other, nor to try to deal with those situations in a way that everyone loses as little as possible. There are people who will use other people with no intention of being their friend, but just because they exist doesn’t mean that you can’t make genuine friendships with people who will help you, and offer what you can in return.
If you want to opt out, that’s fine. If you think this is just horsewords and think I’d stupid for seeing it as something else, that’s fine too. If you don’t think you can make friends with someone who could potentially help you to be a better writer, or have more fun, then… I don’t know, don’t make friends with them?
But while I’m here, seeing this from the position I’m in, I have to try to help everyone else as much as I can.
Great blogging, bookplayer!
Numbers don't matter, but friendships do. That's the lesson I'm taking away from this.
You're right, of course. I've been working with a few different cliques of late, and I've seen clear improvement on all ends as the writers in them build off of one another. I'm also not that surprised to have met quite a few people on this site who already have small-time novels written, or publish short literature to literary magazines on the side. Put simply, we're improving. When you compare a lot of the writing on this site to some of the best selling novels out there, the difference isn't as noticeable as it was three years ago.
Thank you so much blogging these. I have been wrighting stories for a while, but never had the confidence to post any until now. I have gotten some awesome ideas. I'm hoping to get in contact with a few others to help me. I know I'm not that good right now, but I'm working in it.
This! Exactly this!
I've made some great friends here, and I've met some really cool people from this site at the EFNW. I hope to one day (when I get better at writing) write original fiction. Until then, I'll keep writing here. Not because it's just fanfiction, but because like you said, there are some really great people here who are very knowledgeable and helpful. Every time I doubt myself, I just read the first few stories I've ever written—the first ever are on this site—or the first review I've done and compare to what I'm doing now. I've come a long ways, and it's all thanks to great friends, reviews, and helpful people here.
I find it amusing that there are ads for the "Brony Mate" dating website on this blog post.
And of course it has a picture of Luna and Derpy touching noses.
Seriously, Luna and Derpy? If that's what their matching algorithm is spitting out, I fear the users of that site are doomed.
It's unfortunate that cliques exist on this site. I'm even in one or two of them.
That said, some cliques can be a force for good. Seattle's Angels for example, posting their reviews.
On the other hand, you have those cliques that try to make everyone in them post a similar story on Fimfic and the front page gets clogged up by it all, to the detriment of struggling authors.
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I don't think it's unfortunate that cliques exist (nor do I think it's a good thing.) It's just... how friendships work, unless you're Pinkie Pie. Some people are better friends, and sometimes people will have to exclude people from some things, and they'll usually choose to exclude the people they aren't as close with.
There are situations where a clique could be unfair or dishonest, like if they claim they're recommending all the best stories or holding an open contest, then happen to name all of their fiend's fics as the best. But a different clique could do the same thing and do it totally fairly and openly. Cliques aren't the problem, but certain cliques can be a problem.
What I think is unfortunate is that a lot of times people feel helpless in the face of cliques. This isn't usually the clique's fault, they're just a group of friends who want to have fun together. The thing is generally it's easy to make friends, but it's hard to make friends with any specific group-- if you're saying "I would like a friend" you'll find one, but if you're saying "I want you to be my friend"... well, maybe you won't get along. Maybe they're busy. Maybe you don't have much to talk about.
That's why my advice tends towards casting a wide net, and trying to engage people in specific activities. That way you can see if a person or clique is right for you, and if not you'll probably find a person or make a clique that is right for you.
I began writing creatively for the first time for this site. I've stated nine months ago, and since them I've become better at it at an astounding speed (which will probably slow down soon, as I internalize most of the obvious improvements). The community is incredible, and more open than others, networking is something that I manage to do almost naturally even if slowly here. That said, I agree wholeheartedly with the whole post and with its ancestor.
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(Quality FimFic right here.)
Tbh, most of your previous blog was stuff I could agree with to a point, the one issue I had was trying to quantify how "good" someone was at fimfic via the follower counts of their followers. I'm sure that works great if those people all promote your work every time you post—hell, I could boast that I have Cv Brony, Vengeful Spirit, RainbowBob, Bad_Seed_72, Pedro Hander, and a few others as my "big number followers" and say that whatever score I get from them shows that I have some sort of social capital that apparently means that I'm important here and am "good at fimfiction".
But I know only a couple of them are active readers in general, let alone active readers of my fics. It doesn't necessarily mean anything against me as a writer, just that I don't write things they're interested in. Rather, they followed me because we became friends through some means.
I can understand where you're coming from with using this as a site for networking, but quantifying that based on numbers like that is a bit of a hedgy area. There's some people who have a ridiculous number of followers, but an utterly shitty reputation on the site—either because of attitude, subject they write on, or the beliefs they perpetuate. So... eh, just my personal opinion on the matter.
I avoid my friends, to save time
All I know is I'm getting ready to fic again. I have no idea whether I WANT it to sink without a trace and only people familiar with my writing ever hear about it, or whether it would amuse me to get a BurrukuPanza signal boost and return to the days when every other commenter was like 'AUGH GET AWAY FOUL FIEND'
I don't think writing horsewords (much less regular words!) is a good way to attain celebrity and status.
I do think writing horsewords is an art of communication like any other, and the things communicated needn't be the obvious subject matter. I've let people walk vicariously through all manner of alarming stuff, from despair and self-destructiveness through various perversions from various motivations. I've made different points, sometimes real forcefully, and I've been able to fully work out my writer/novelist muscles regardless of the overt subject matter.
It's 2015. Right now there's no reason NOT to write ponies (or superheroes, or what have you) because there's never been less appreciation for the original or for dedicated, patient effort. Very strange and disheartening if you desperately need to matter as an original creator, but if you remember it's not what you do but how you do it, astonishing new avenues open up.
Remember to say nice things to the people you like because it may be the only nice thing that happens to them all week, or all month, or all year.
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A lot of people seem hung up on those numbers. What's important is this:
Bigger numbers of followers, or followers of followers, just means that you're statistically more likely to find those people (or know them already.) That's all.
It's finding those people that's important, the numbers just let you know your odds.
3347018 I know, that's why I said the numbers portion was the one thing I didn't agree with. I just found it a bit silly that people raced to go "I HAVE X" on that blog :P
The rest is true to a point, but part of it is showing a willingness to learn and improve. I met a lot of the people who helped me get better when I had about... sixty followers? Maybe? This time last year, if I recall. I casually mentioned that I wanted to get better and that I had a few ideas I wanted to write, but wasn't confident enough to do so. They helped me smooth out a couple ideas, I met a few better writers who gave me help, and I'd like to think I've gotten better because of it, so there is definitely a point in favor of that.
One of these days, I'm going to write an essay on why everyone should love bookplayer.
You're one of Fimfic's finest, Bookplayer. We're lucky to have you around
Look! It's me!
Why have kept coming back to this post lately?
Why did I look up Foal Free Press and tell myself what I always knew? (That the drama is actually small as are the bad people out there. They kind of pale in comparison to the amount of people that are more like you? That there is a lot more to love here?)
Why has this post touched me so well?
This-
The community has helped me more than once, this site has given me so much joy and love, and the fics have given me so many hours of enjoyment that this quote just reminded me why I love this place so much and why I try to help out and enjoy all I can. Yeah, there can be morons, but why should I let the few ruin a site and a collection of people I enjoy being with.
In short...
I love you guys
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You need to start your own clique...
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With blackjack and hookers.
3346729 Cliques just exist, Ginger. Not on this site. Not at your school. They exist.
All a clique is is a group of people that associate with each other. They can be exclusive or inclusive. Just because people (edgy teenagers mostly!) like to use the world "clique" to mean something negative doesn't make it so :P
I've barely even visited this site for a few years now. All I do is sit in chats, half of which aren't even related to writing. I just sorta exist in my own corner, doing my own thing.
I'll agree that this site is a good training grounds, though. My writing improved dramatically for about 3 or so years before my progress started to fall off due to some combination of 'going as far as this site can go' and having trouble getting one of the dozen or so editors on this site who can really help me improve to actually edit my stuff.
I'm hoping to take my experience moving forward and either publish a book or make use of my writing in publishing games I've made, but there's a time to retire from everything and I after finishing what I'm currently writing, I feel like it's that time.
It's easy to condescend clicks when you're not a part of them, like that group of middle/highschool/college kids at the local Walmart who are laughing and joking loudly and having just so much fun that you want to sock them. Until, that is, you're at the mall with your friends and you all start laughing at something ridiculous, and you realize you're being really loud, only to decide who gives a crap, you're going to have fun with your friends and not care what others may think. YOLO.
Or like that young newly-wed couple who are so sickeningly sweet to each other it literally hurts. Until you're so in love yourself that you might as well be blind, and suddenly you find yourself wondering, man, why is everyone else such a grumpy, embittered old fart all of a sudden? Can't they be happy I'm happy?
It's worse, of course, when you're stricken with the artistic urge--in this case, to express yourself through words and story. When you see others apparently enjoying themselves and having fun together and getting bountiful attention, it hurts. Envy always hurts. You can either let it burn, I suppose, until you achieve its salve, or be rid of it by altering your desires, or use it to motivate you to get what you want. I try to choose the latter option.
Hmm, that's not really what this blog was about :p Well, in any event, it's all good and very practical advice. ^.^ Because the truth is, while you may think that the cure to the envy you feel is what that envy desires (say, followers or entrance into a particular group), you'll find out that the true cure is this: real, meaningful friendship. Those who sacrifice that to reach their goals climb to the top only to realize how vacant it is. And when you find that deeply satisfying connection with another person, you'll realize it's what you wanted all along.
I've learned a lot since coming to the site, too. Like, a great big lot. I look back on my first works and cringe (in a light-hearted way). Some of that's down to practise, obviously, but the most important thing for me has been interacting with other authors and readers on this site - making friends that help out with pretty much everything, make suggestions and give feedback, and encourage me when I'm convinced that "I'm the worst writer in the world and no-one will ever want to read my stories!"
And being able to help them out in turn is awesome, not to mention sharing things like contests, challenges and writing games (*cough*playAppledashprompt-tag*cough*) which builds rapport and skills at the same time. Also it's fun.
I've said it before - Fimfiction is a wonderful community for growing writers!
Hear, bloody hear! It's this sort of thing that has largely driven what I've done here, and why I've gotten so involved in doing the collab stuff...not to mention all the benefit I absolutely recognize myself having received from it as well. I, alas, have never been in much of a position to help others, but I've tried my hardest to do it with what little sway I've garnered on the occasion. Not to mention just trying to spread the celebration of our community more than anything, regardless of interests or skill levels.
This blog is one for the ages, for sure.
Well, I certanly agree with this, and I also would like to complement it with a personal experience. While I'm new in the "joy" of writing in this beatiful english language, I have been writing in my native spanish for quite a while, and it was like seven years ago that I found and participated in this wonderful forum, wich while first devoted to a particular book about a zombie outbreak in Spain, it had a large section of original works about differents genres (thoug, most of them still were about zombies or similiars).
The thing was, even being a really small community (it shouldn't have exceeded the 50 active members at any time) it really bloomed in a paradise to write and improve writing, and it didn't took many time before the publishing house of the original book edited and published one of the original storys, and then other, and then published a antology with 15 shorts storys of differents users, and then 3 books more, all printed in paper, advertised in streets, all the "package". By then, the forum also counted with two professionals editors and one proofreader and several interesting writing tournaments and games.
But, nothing of that would have been possible without the wonderfull bonding and support between the users of the place, (a lot of them becoming close friends in the real life) with, without pretty much any intention, ended creating their own network of readers, editors, publishers, etc.
Maybe, certanly none of them became "rich and famous" with this, but no doubt it was an enriching experience for all of us, and for a lot of them, even without the "being published thing" their get to know some really cool people whom to hang out with.
Thoug, bleghh, that sound so much more cheesy than expected
Well said!
I'm late enough to the bookplayer party that I did not know that you wrote a novel. Nice! I wrote one prior to finding the fandom, too. I don't have a publisher, alas. When I joined the fandom I was actively searching for an agent, and at this point I'm getting the self-publishing gears turning (it's a long story). Like you, I've grown tremendously as a writer because of this fandom, and I couldn't be more grateful for it. This is also the first place where I've, dare I say, really connected with other writers.
I really hope I'm helping others here, even a little. I can't even measure how much help I've received over the past 111k pony words
You've convinced me that I should reach out a bit more on this site. In the words of Princess Celestia, "Make some friends!"