Luna's powers · 6:29am Jul 19th, 2015
With Episode 13 out for a while now, I've had some time to process it and what it meant for Luna. Many people will bring up how self righteous and even ignorant it was of her to allow the Tantibus to run rampant, but putting all that aside, I'd like to discuss something I've noticed over the course of 3 seasons. Luna's Dream Walking abilities.
At first, in Luna Eclipsed, Luna was almost ignorant about how her actions carried over to her present time, taking in the town's folk rejected pretty badly to the point of giving up interaction with them.
What happens next time we see her? She's in Scootaloo's dream right, but what's so special about her first appearance in the dream realm? Well, the fact she has little control over the dream. She struggled to come in contact with Scoots in her first dream and was even pushed back out in a later dream against her will. Almost like if she had ran out of time.
Comparing that to next time we see Luna in Sweetie Belle's dream, she is entirely in control of the dream realm. With a stomp of a hoof she shifts reality and bends the dream to her will. She seemed like a master of this new magic with how well she was able to shift scenes and even use another pony's memories (likely encountered in a time she entered Rarity's dream) to play it out like a film.
After that, Luna visits Applebloom where she not only has the same amount of control from before, but can even begin to merge dreams together to bring them all in for a small meeting to talk about their worries and insecurities.
What does that all say about Luna's power? That it was a work in progress. Think about it, if Luna had the obligation of guiding a pony through their nightmares, why would she feel her role as the Princess of the Night not be sufficient and cause her to rebel against her sister? She probably didn't have this duty until AFTER she returned from the moon.
I think Luna took to studying dream magic in order to create the Tantibus because of how badly Ponyville had reacted to her. Imagine for a minute to be in Luna's place. Luna is blasted by the Elements of Harmony, returns to normal, is thrown a welcome party, and remains in Canterlot for an unspecified amount of time. If her actions when she first arrives in Luna Eclipsed are anything to go by, she had almost forgotten about what she had done likely because she was being pampered by Celestia or something of the like. She didn't realize how big a scar she had left on Equestria until that moment.
Luna didn't want to do that, didn't want to forget what she had done because of the guilt she felt when she had, for a minute, forgotten her past actions. So what did she do? She reacted the Tantibus. Not because she wanted to torture her self because we clearly see Luna welcome Tantibus when it enters her dream. She simply wanted it around as sort of a sticky note to remind her of her past. Notice how the Tantibus goes to her side and waits until Luna allows it to infect her? She didn't wish for a creature of mass destruction, just a companion to help her remember her past. And in this process to create the Tantibus, she found her role as the only Princess to traverse the dream realm. Funny how things work out huh?
awesome
But based on how it was portrayed in the episode wasn't Tantabus originally something that was created by her subconscious mind that was later embraced by her conscious mind as a way to repent? Either that or it may have been a self imposed test to see if she could be trusted with the deeper portions of the dream magic she was slowly being able to access again? When it comes to the concept of dream magic I assume it is something that is linked to her very being, not something that she was taught but something that she feels. In the episode with Applebloom it is shown that dreams are separate, for a lack of a better term, "things" that are drawn to have a connection at a certain place. For all I know doors where used as the representation of the separation for Applebloom's sake. As for Dream Magic, I like to think of it as something she is slowly regaining as she is in contact with the dream realm and she acts as a kind of fuse for it's power. When she appeared in Scootaloo's dream it wasn't that she was force out or couldn't get in, I see it as she didn't know who much force could be applied in order to properly interact with what I see as a smaller "fuse." Something that can only have so much power put into it before something goes pop. Without knowing what that limit was she had to be careful of how hard she pushed. As time went on she was able to get a feel for how much each mind could take of this type of magic. Her magic, based on how I see it, is just there to direct the flow of magic that connects that plane(?) of existence.
You like to use dreams as a representation of the mind in Sweetie's Shadow so that probably should have been some clue as to what you were pondering. I hope this makes sense because I get what you're trying to say but I'm not that good at English in the long run and am even worse at composing my thoughts. Hope this isn't a waste of your or anyone's who decides to read this.
This is a well thought out bit of headcanon. I definitely agree regarding her abilities as part of her general recovery. Due to the effects of the Elements, she was initially stripped of most of her power when she returned. And since, then, she has been recovering; first regaining her true form, and then her own unique abilities.
As for the Tantabus, Luna seemed to say it was something she consciously created, rather than as a side effect of her guilt. This is in contrast to whatever it was that made her become Nightmare Moon, which was not entirely her doing (see the look of fear on her face when she first transformed). This suggests extremely powerful magic; after all, creating a conscious entity with apparent self-awareness is no easy task. In turn, it feeds into her continued recovery.
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I don't think dream magic was something Luna knew from before hand. Like I said, if she guarded a pony's dreams before she was banished, how come she thought her role to be insignificant? I don't really regard the comics as cannon, but they too have Luna (or rather Nightmare Moon at the time) learn dream magic from creatures of the moon while she was imprisoned. Having her know it for so long only begs the question of why she didn't use it to keep herself and her subjects content in the night time.
PS, its always fun to discuss fan theories
3257347 Depending on your view of precisely what Nightmare Moon was (either a foreign entity that possessed Luna, or a physical manifestation of her own jealousy), there are two options as to why she saw her night as unappreciated. If you take the comics to be canon, it was only partially her decision, having to share her form with a power hungry creature. She seems to take no issue with what could be viewed as a lesser position today. However, in actual canon, I see a much simpler explanation.
When we feel underappreciated, we naturally inflate our apparent uselessness (i.e 'Nopony needs me'). Ponies may well have slept through Luna's night, but they continue to do so today, and there is no sign of Nightmare Moon returning. It may be the case that Luna viewed the apparent extra attention Celestia got as being detrimental to herself. Even though she had her own role in the world (raising the moon, dreamwalking, etc.) she saw herself as not being Celestia. Essentially, she began to suffer from an inferiority complex.
So despite having a perfectly decent and vital role in Equestria, Luna convinced herself that she had no value, and that the only way to regain her usefulness was to remove Celestia. Now though, following her return, she has realised her role and the rewards it brings. After all, she can do many things Celestia cannot, such as dreamwalking. As such, the original inferiority complex has faded.
3257468 Hmm, that's definitely true. I suppose I would have to put myself in Luna's shoes to know how she might have felt. That just begs the question as to whether the Tantibus was purposely created by Luna to torment her dreams or if it was perhaps Nightmare Moon's residue magic left behind that took on a 'split personality' of sorts in the form of the ghastly create.
Since the Tantibus could easily move from dream to dream, maybe Luna had to struggle against it first before she recovered her dream walking abilities because it was tided to it, but since it was essentially Nightmare Moon, she rejected it as part of her. That meant there was a part of Nightmare Moon that had not fully returned to normal, the only part that had this exclusive ability in the dream walk.
Maybe I'm looking to much into it.
3257870 In the episode, Luna states quite clearly that she created the Tantabus after her return. It may have some connection to her corruption. The Tantabus is a manifestation of her guilt, rather than her jealousy, to the point where its power was tied to that feeling, just as Nightmare Moon was able to defeat Celestia with the power of Luna's jealousy. In this case though, it was, until the time of the episode, under control and content to stay in her dreams, rather than an all consuming entity.
We don't know precisely when she created it, but it must have been fairly recently, after she regained her dreamwalking ability. It is definitely separate from Nightmare Moon; it's more of a reminder, to prevent her slipping back into the frame of mind that would allow her inferiority complex to start up again. When she accepted both her actions and the forgiveness of the ponies around her, the guilt powering the Tantabus stopped entirely, sending it back to Luna and falling dormant. Since she has come to terms with her actions, she no longer feels the need to continually remind herself.
3258083 No no, I don't think you understood me quite well. Let me explain myself a little bit more. You see, Tantibus is the Latin word for 'Nightmare' whereas Luna is the Latin word for "Moon." Together they are literately Nightmare Moon. This might hit headcannon territory, but imagine for a moment that when Luna became Nightmare Moon she gave herself in to a seperate entity, a personality she created to cope with what she was about to do. After she was returned to normal, she cast that personality away instead of absorbing it back into herself, the place it originally came from.
Imagine she cast away that memory of Nightmare Moon not knowing that doing so would only keep it alive. Months later, when she creates the Tantibus, the creature she created out of her own magic takes on that part of her she never absorbed back, the 'Nightmare' in Nightmare Moon.
The Tantibus has extremely similar magical properties as the magical aura Nightmare Moon's mane gave off. What do we know about Alicorns? Their manes reflect their magic, that is why when Luna came back she had a normal mane, she was purged of her dark magic and allowed to regain her own.
What I was asking was what if she knew about that personality magic she never took in and the magical properties it retained? What if she saw use for it in the creature she was about to create to give herself nightmares? What if she purposely used the magic of Nightmare Moon to keep a controlled and isolated Nightmare at bay to remind her of her dark deeds. That was my original question.
If when she was purged of her dark magic she had to relearn, or reacquire the magic she had from before to get back to normal, that would explain why she was absent for the entirety of season 1.
3258141 I think I get what you mean. Also, I just realised I've been misspelling Tantibus for this entire discussion.
What you are saying then, is that when Luna became Nightmare Moon, she was suffering a complete psychotic break. Nightmare Moon was a sub-personality created to protect her mind from the fact that she was about to harm, and possibly kill, her sister. In the world of magic, this sub personality gained magical and physical form as well as consciousness separate from Luna. And so when she created the Tantibus, she used the 'raw' form of Nightmare Moon, without consciousness, inadvertently or by design.
It would make sense. Luna wanted a nightmare to remind herself of her past actions, so she drew upon the worst one she knew of. I agree that the Tantibus shares many commonalities with Nightmare Moon. It could perhaps be described even as a lobotomised Nightmare Moon, with no real goal other than survival and to turn its environment into a nightmare. The way it also 'merged' with Luna at the end suggests that it was part of her, as Nightmare Moon was.
However, the only problem there is that Nightmare Moon was completely destroyed when she was hit by the Elements. She quite literally shattered. This is what allowed Luna to resurface. There was nothing for Luna to release or absorb. She was stripped of all magic, regardless of its form. thus the Tantibus must be a new creation. It is connected to Nightmare Moon, as it was born in a similar way, but it must be a different creature.
3258270 Well, not that it proves that Nightmare Moon want destroyed, but Luna once had a nickname like Celestia has "Sunbutt". I believe some portion of the fanbase called Luna "Inkbutt" because of the dark shade under her cutiemark.
We know that it isn't part of her cutiemark because it didn't disappear when Tirek drained her magic, so what is it? I always assumed it to be a scar. Notice how Nightmare Moon is all black? I thought maybe it was some portion of Nightmare Moon that wasn't completely washed away. All buried deep in what defines her. Her cutie mark.
Of course, the counter argument is that Nightmare Moon also had an ink splot in the purple shade, but that would be my only explanation for how some of Nightmare Moon remained locked within Luna.
3258440 Hmm. I always just assumed that was an oversight on the part of the animators. Also, for the record, Tirek didn't drain anything from Luna. She lost her cutie mark when she transferred her magic to Twilight.
3259742 lol yeah, little mix up there. My bad