Thoughts: On Names: Design · 12:10am Apr 27th, 2015
Whew! It has been quite a while since the last Thoughts blog. The Ponies on Earth blog is currently going nowhere because I am blocked on the topic and I am still reorganizing my thoughts… for the past one and a half years. Plus, I have all these story ideas swarming my head, snarling all my writings to a crawl. Not to mention my day job robbing most of my free time but I am doing my best to get back to all my writings and publish and update my stories more quickly.
Too long…
Shh… Crystal Quartz, I haven’t forget you! Pleasedon’tkillme! D:
Disclaimer: This blog post contains my thoughts, feelings and opinions on writing, characters and other things and my general thought process when writing.
Opening words
Or “How Not To Name Your Pony/Changeling/Griffon/Non-Human Stan”. This is kind of a continuation of my Thoughts: On Characters: Design blog, in particular, the name portion which I kind of pretty much glossed over in the first place.
At the time, I still haven’t grasped exactly what I was doing instinctually but now, a couple (or more) years after the fact, I have finally nailed it down mostly.
Note that these are simply guidelines I used when I was brainstorming for names, something that I used to keep my names consistent and I think they helped a lot.
So, names. Names are important. They form one of the basis of the design of a character, the other two being appearance and personality. Names are one of the first impressions someone gets when meeting someone else. A good name sounds natural. It rolls off the tongue easily. It is memorable.
Coming up with names is very easy but coming up with good names however… That’s always the catch: good things are always harder to achieve. That’s why I have these guidelines.
Pony Names Guidelines
The following are for non-human pony-like characters (the three pony tribes, changelings, flutterponies, bat ponies):
1. Use simple words.
2. No more than two words per name.
3. No more than five syllables total for the name.
4. A name must sound natural.
5. A name should convey one concept only.
6. Understand the meaning behind the name.
7. A name should reflect the largest spark of the character’s personality, if possible.
8. A name should reflect the culture of the character.
Simple Words
The rationale behind this is simple: simple words are easy to pronounce and they are easy to remember. For example, Sweet Pine the vivacious green earth pony mare or Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness the serious chemist. Who is easier to pronounce and remember? The former.
(I actually could not even remember “Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness” when I was looking up the trope on TV Tropes, I had to settle for “Overly verbose”.)
No More Than Two Words
Long names can be difficult to remember. Especially when there are loads and loads of characters running around in your story (and heavens forbid that you write a pony Wheel of Time or A Song of Ice and Fire). The two word limit is also familiar to the average westerner, therefore more relatable.
Of course, I do flout this rule when I want to do Full Name Ultimatums and those sound the best when there are three words.
No More Than Five Syllables
This is as much as a canon thing as a name being pronounceable. Ever notice that in the show, no pony actually has a name over four syllables? The reason behind this is the same as the reason behind using simple words: being pronounceable.
Try reading out two words of various syllable length, you will notice that as the syllables of each word gets longer, the name becomes harder to read smoothly. For example, “Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness” has five syllables in “Sesquipedalian” and four syllables in “Loquaciousness” for a total of nine syllables. See how long it takes just to pronounce the first word? That five syllables is already a mouthful and the next word is not any better.
Fun trivia:
Characters with four syllables in their names (off the top of my head):
- Twilight Sparkle
- Sunset Shimmer
- Starlight Glimmer
- Party Favor
- Double Diamond
- Steven Magnet- Diamond Tiara Thanks horizon, for pointing that out!
- Twilight Velvet
- Shining Armor
Three of them share the same theme, coincidence?! You decide!
Names Should Sound Natural
Capping off the first three rules, names at the end of the day, should feel and sound like they belong to a pony and it should flow smoothly from one word to the other. Of course, you do not have to worry much about flow if your pony has one word for a name, like Rarity, Applejack or Fluttershy, just make sure the word does not contain too many syllables.
Also, take into account of cultural shifts. For example, a pony name Bullet Storm would be wholly out of place in the show since it is an idyllic and peaceful place but he would not be out of place in Fallout: Equestria because it is now a wasteland with raiders, guns and super mutants alicorns.
Conversely, Sweet Pine from above would fit right in the show while in Fallout: Equestria, she would probably draw some odd looks with that cheerful name and would probably come off as sheltered or naïve, like perhaps a stable dweller.
Names Should Only Convey One Concept
The reason for this strange guideline actually comes from the show. If you look closely at the names of the show characters, they all convey one or at most two simple concepts or ideas.
Applejack is all about apples (and maybe “healthy”, if you read into “Jack” as well). Fluttershy is shy (and a weak flyer). Rainbow Dash is all about speed (and rainbow maned). Rarity is kind of an odd duck, with a concept that is not directly apparent to her character.
Consider Darkstar Ravenclaw, four syllables, two words. It meets the guidelines I listed previously and most importantly, it sounds cool! I mean, it’s got Darkness, A Star, A Bird Associated with Death and Claws, man! How is that not cool? What’s wrong with it?
First of all, the name suggests a whooping four(!) concepts, it makes the name sound cluttered, what with all the imagery conjured by the concepts fighting for attention. Well, at least in my mind and that is why I want to not put too many concepts into one name.
And this comes to alicorn names. Why mention them? I like Alicorn OCs (boo!) and Alicorns are about the best examples of this guideline. Well, at least before Princess Cadance appeared and Twilight Sparkle became princess.
Celestia and Luna’s names both convey “Day” and “Moon” respectively which we can take as “Day” and “Night” and they literally raise the sun and moon. This sets a very good precedence for me. Alicorns are very powerful (no, I do not see them as goddesses) and they handle one aspect of the universe, in the canon’s case, the sun and moon for Celestia and Luna and love and friendship for Cadance and Twilight.
Understanding Meanings Behind Names
This applies more to words from foreign languages. Do not use foreign words because they sound cool. There will be that one person out there who is shaking their head at their native words you are butchering using. Do some research, at least google the meaning of the word, find out its etymology (history).
Once you understand the meaning behind the names, you can start linking them to concepts or ideas. It always interested me a lot to look up the meanings of the words behind the names and I have used that on several occasions to subtly hint at certain aspects of my characters, essentially an easter egg inside the meaning of the name. And yes, I have hidden quite a few in one of my character, maybe you can find out?
Names Should Reflect Largest Spark of Personality
Well, not always but sometimes I would try to. Like I said earlier, names are a part of the character and thus names should give the readers some insights to the characters. This is particularly useful for minor characters when you want to inform readers upfront the general personality of those characters, essentially a personality shorthand. Like Sweet Pine being a nice, sweet filly at first glance.
However, this is iffier in major characters because in real life, names do not reflect really our actual personalities but instead they might be qualities our parents might want us to have or because they were named after somebody famous or because the parents were lazy and strung two words that sounded okay and left it at that.
Of course, this can work in the opposite direction in the form of a subversion. Let’s say you meet Sweet Pine on the street. You may think that she is a sweet and cheerful mare… until she opens her mouth. Then you realize that she is surly and rude, not quite the sweet filly you think she is from her name and that gives us a small conflict and thus interest. Because you start asking questions like “Why is this mare with such a sweet name such a bitch meanie pants?” and probably want to know more about her (or chuck her off the side of Canterlot).
Names Should Reflect the Culture of Its Species
Meet Stan. What is your first impression when you hear the name? He must be a human, right? Maybe he wears a beanie and a jacket and is in fourth-grade. Maybe he is a stoner living in suburbia Los Angeles. Maybe he is the producer to John Green’s Crash Course World History.
Or he is actually a changeling deathly afraid of Princess Celestia being sent on a mission to deliver a missive to said princess.
…
Wait, what? Stan is a changeling? How is that possible?! I mean, his queen is named Chrysalis for goodness sake! It does not even fit the naming convention put forth by the canon! And Stan the Changeling sounds wholly uninspiring!
…
And this illustrates a problem with names in fan fiction.
Names, if possible, should inform the reader the cultural identity of the character or at least what is appropriate for the culture. This is geared more towards worldbuilding and it is natural that names do just that because names are a part of culture.
Language may provide the words but it is in our nature that desire to identify things and culture that decides what we want to identify and what values we decided were important and names reflects that.
To give a canon example, pegasi names commonly includes “Cloud” (Cloudchaser, Cloudkicker, Fluffy Clouds), “Sky” (Open Skies, Clear Skies), “Thunder”/Weather Phenomena (Thunderlane, Rumble, Sunshower) because pegasi culture frequently deals with clouds and weather and their common names reflect that.
That is not to say you cannot name your characters with names that are less common with their culture, a ground dwelling pegasi family or community of several generations may eventually start naming their kids after things on the ground rather than things in the sky. Why? Because their culture has changed and the most important things have less to with the sky and more with the ground. Maybe because they took up farming.
One good thing about names is that just about any name is possible as long as it is justifiable. But then why is Stan so inappropriate for a changeling?
Firstly, there is already a naming convention for changelings. Granted, it has a grand total of one name (Chrysalis) but you can see that it already sets a limit on what is and is not appropriate for a changeling name. Obviously, Stan does not fall into the “appropriate” category since it has nothing to do with the life cycle of a butterfly (which Chrysalis is) or something bug-sy.
In fact, “Stan” is a diminutive form of “Stanislas”, a Latinized French version of the Slavic name “Stanislav”. It is also the diminutive form of “Stanley”, which is the contracted form of “Stoney Meadow” (Stone/Stan Leigh). “Stanislav” means “One who achieves glory/fame” by the way. Not very appropriate for a species of love sucking vampires bug-like ponies.
Secondly, what is the changeling’s common values? What values do they put importance on? Other than sucking love. We all know that one. “Stan” does not inform any of that. It does not even evoke any feelings from me. That’s why I call it uninspiring. It’s just… there. Not serving any purpose.
But surely this was an isolated case, right? Wrong. Later on in Stan’s adventures (i.e. the next chapter two chapters later), we meet another changeling named “Chris” "Carl" and allegedly Stan’s brother (it might have been the author’s attempt at implying all changelings were related but it was hard to tell through the less than stellar prose). This tells me one thing: the author could not be bothered to come up with proper names and simply used whatever was most familiar to them, to the detriment of the readers.
Though despite this blog’s secondary title, Stan is actually an appropriate name for a griffon if you want to go for French culture. It is supported by canon with Gustave le Grand (lit. “Gustav the Grand”), though the other canon griffon is “Gilda”, which is a West Germanic (no, not that West Germany) name.
(That’s why my griffon worldbuilding tends to be Francophone and Germanic.)
This is also why understanding the meaning and etymology of the name is useful in tying it to different cultures: you can look at the meanings and then pick the ones that fit the common values of the culture. Works very well for foreign names like the ones found in griffons, at least for me.
Human Name Guidelines
As I do create human characters for both original and pony stories, so I have guidelines for their names as well. Human names are easier, since I am a human and I am familiar with human names.
Here are the guidelines:
1. Always research the names if it is in a foreign language.
2. Do not use a name because it sounds cool.
3. Names should sound like it comes from said ethnicity and time period.
Research The Names
At the very least, look up the list of common names of the foreign language. Nothing irked me more than an author butchering a name when they could easily correct it with an online search for a list of names.
Understanding the names also allows me to also sneak meanings and insights into the character’s personality. Not always, but I like to do so from time to time when I have more time to work on a particular name. I tend to skip that if I need multiple names in a short time.
Researching names, like its etymology and meanings also allows me to ponify them. However, converting meanings into viable pony names are still rather difficult, which I found when I was trying to ponify Anna and Elsa’s names for one of the universe I was worldbuilding.
No Cool Names
This largely stems from my pedantic nature and I prefer to be correct about names first. Then I would go about making the name fun by giving them nicknames or pet names. What I really look for in names are 1) being correct, 2) interesting and 3) not being cool.
This is mainly because I prefer normal sounding names than fantastic ones, I am familiar with normal names and I do not have to come up with the naming conventions in the case of fantastic names. Other reason is that I detest characters with outlandish names that has little or no personality to back up his/her “coolness”.
I have seen this in way too many shoddy Human in Equestria stories and other Self-Insert stories from other fandoms and frankly speaking I do not want to associate myself with those stories, ever.
Names Should Sound Natural To Their Race and Time Period
This is actually important. Nothing kicks me out of a story faster than say, having a 15th century Spanish conquistador named Fred. It is not just wrong ethnically, it is wrong historically. It makes me cringe whenever I see a supposedly white Caucasian male with a fake Japanese name and as a consequence, I am almost religious in making sure that names are correct. Well, at least as much as I can with the lists of common names of different nationalities I can find.
I mean, I literally spent hours with lists of Japanese names just so I could get the names of my own ancient Japanese in Equestria (story idea) characters down correctly. It was also probably a good thing that I happen to able to read Kanji because of my mother tongue and I had exposure to Japanese names but I still spent time to look at them and their meanings so I can choose the right ones.
Correctness should not be compromised for coolness. Learn the basics first, get it right before you start subverting or making it more interesting.
Conclusion
So, this concludes my rambling and probably not very organized thoughts on how I design names. I still have not really tied them back to appearance and personality yet. Well, mostly the former. Maybe that can be the topic of my next Thoughts blog. I really need to break that block on my blog on Ponies on Earth…
Far too long…
Well, at least there is a new Anthology of Chaos and Harmony entry of you and Erhard coming out soon, Crystal Quartz! Pleasedon’tkillmereallyplease!
Until then, see you soon!
OH GOD I have done tons of thinking about pony names recently because so many people are so bad at it.
I would actually say that four syllables is a good rule of thumb. Big Macintosh. Sunset Shimmer. Twilight Sparkle (all her friends have names that are three syllables and share the same stress pattern, which is highly clever, as it makes songwriting a breeze). The list goes on.
But five should be taken as an absolute. I think the longest canonical pony name, syllable wise, discounting title (Princess Celestia is six, and don't get me started on Cadence) is Hayseed Turniptruck. And Hayseed Turniptruck is a terrible pony. To wit, your character should not be anything like Hayseed Turniptruck.
That said, "Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness" (it's actually ten syllables, beating out Princess Miamore Cadenza!) kind of flips the dial and becomes a great pony name for its ridiculousness. Granted, it wouldn't work on a serious character unless they were the straightman in a very UNserious story. But for a comedy, especially one with meta jokes, I could see that happening. You crazy fool, you.
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That was the conclusion I came to as well. When I read out names, I realized five syllables is where the names starts becoming cumbersome to read and that told me that it's a good stopping point.
Oh man, I didn't even remember him. Shows how memorable that name and character is. =P
I must be missing some nuances (but I see it now). Drats, my syllables-fu is not strong enough! D:
So, basically the Comically Serious? =P
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"Diamond Tiara" is also five syllables (contrary to the post; it's "tee-ah-rah").
Which actually — if you'll forgive me putting tongue in cheek for a moment — suggests a sort of name hierarchy:
1 syllable:
"Brain damaged"
"Background pony"
"You've got a destiny"
"Personal friend of Princess Celestia"
"Brain damaged"
"Screw you, I make my own rules!"
"What alternate universe did you warp in from?"
(Snips, Snails, Twist, Spike)
2 syllables:
(Derpy, Pipsqueak, Rumble, Lyra, Bon Bon)
3 syllables:
(The Mane Five, all three Cutie Mark Crusaders, Shining Armor)
4 syllables:
(Twilight Sparkle, Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, Miss Harshwhinny)
5 syllables:
(Hayseed Turniptruck, Diamond Tiara)
6 syllables:
(Discord)
7 syllables:
(Mi Amore Cadenza)
Alternatively, #s 5 through 7 may imply that Equestrian name lengths are meaningful modulo 4.
3020884
It's the ones which pronunciations blend together trips me up.
>Name Hieracrchy
That makes my poor Serene Clarity and Calming Serenade fall under "Brain damaged". Poor mares. D:
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Hey, how do you think I feel about "Luna" being a background pony?
What I really came back here to say, though, was that "Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness" is the best OC name ever.
Her Cutie Mark should be an arrow pointing to her other Cutie Mark.
3020955
And her other cutie mark is an arrow pointing back to her other cutie mark.
Pointception...
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Depending on how you visualize that, it could be two arrows pointing at her butt, and nopony wants that. D:
Good blog, mate. I like all you have to say, here.
So, I got an OC named Aurorawing Darkbeefstone Triumphbrand.
Little too much, maybe?
She's an alicorn/gryphon/fivenightsanimatronic hybrid.
The way an old mentor of mine phrased the latter half of this in a single sentence once was: "Every character has their name for a reason." The core problem with naming a changeling "Stan", to use your example, is that the chosen name doesn't say anything about the character, but only because of the empirical evidence proving the author just picked one at random. With proper backstory and motivation behind them, even generic names can be very revealing of not just the personality and intentions of the character in question, but also those of whoever named them.
Great post, I hope people take it into account I'm their writings, specially the part about the names referring to a single concept, which is part of my favorite pony names.
I would suggest that to test of a name is good you should be able to form a sentence with the words and retain the concept you're trying to invoke.
For example:
Twilight Sparkle - A sparkle in the twilight.
Rainbow Dash - A dash of rainbows.
They invoke the same concept such that they could be a name themselves if ponies used more flourishes in their names.
Darkstar Ravenclaw, I don't even know how that would work.
Now just commenting on Applejack's name, I like to think that's her name because applejack is a very strong spirit created by exposure to very harsh, cold weather. Maybe reading too much into it by I like to think she deserves it.
Also, for people having trouble coming up with pegasus names, go to this link:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/box/glossary.htm
There are real terms that make awesome names by themselves, like "Anvil Crawler", or take two terms and mix them up, like blizzard and dart leader can become "Blizzard Dart".
Meteorology is full of cool sounding words, there is no need to limit one self to Cloud and Sky and Wind.
This was a great read. I'm not the best at thinking up names, which is why most of my fics deal with already-canon characters -- and the main exception (We Who with Songs Beguile) uses a species (songbirds) which has never had canon names anyway! (They're called Mazarine, Brunneous, Roseate and things like that.)
I could see "Stan" working, though: a single changeling, separated from his hive, who for whatever reason takes up with a group of ponies. "Stan" would be what they called him, but would be short for something like "Standard Worker 278". Because Chrysalis doesn't give her minions real names. And so on.
See also: Pinkamina Diane Pie. (Although I'm not sure if you should take her as precedent or not.)
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Rissie y
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That is very true. I came to the same conclusion after some more thinking and that was really why "Stan" the changeling set me off so much--it didn't contribute to the story at all and the author did nothing to help the name either.
3025925
Copious amounts of angst and tragic backstories and mascara and eyeliners and emo poetry.
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And congrats, you've already put more thought into the more than the author did for Stan in the fic. :3
(Oh yes, Stan the changeling exists. Even Wanderer D posted a blog about it.)
3026972
I had that in mind when I wrote that section but most of that got scrubbed after a few revisions.
And probably why RD's fandom fullname was Rainbow Miriam Dash. =x
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So, which of "shining" and "armor" has only one syllable?
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The one that rhymes with "Snails."
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Your kung fu is stronger than mine . . .
Oh God, I'm out. If it's anything like my thought process....
I'm pretty terrible at coming up with good pony names. I've cheated, and used flower names (Orchid Frost, Poppy Mallow, Prairie Fire), paint names, ponified names (Winter Rye), and also lots of BG ponies. Actually--background ponies are a great source of names. The wiki's about a zillion ponies long.
I'll grant that as being a useful pony naming convention, however, I think (besides the Full Name Ultimatum) longer names can be useful in a story, and can even provide an important cultural statement. I imagine that the deer (despite the comic [I think; I haven't read it yet]) have long, flowing names.
I think it's also because IRL people--and ponies--would probably assign nicknames if a name was too long. Who wants to say "Pinkamena Diane Pie, bearer of the Element of Laughter" every time you address her? It's worth noting that many of the characters in the show also use nicknames (AJ using RD, for example), or only single names (Pinkie, as opposed to Pinkie Pie). One of my greatest frustrations in life was that my brother didn't have a name which could be shortened into any reasonable nickname, so we eventually settled on calling each other "chief" and "boss." [Fun fact, we didn't worry too much about who was who--usually, whoever initiated the conversation would say "hey, chief."]
Thank you! So many novices get that wrong.
After some complaints, I renamed Lecul DuCheval--mostly because some of my French-speaking readers wondered why I'd give such an awesome character such a not-awesome name.
In Onto the Pony Planet, I researched the name of Kate's friend's dog, to make sure it was appropriate, and in A Sleeping Rose, the name of Sam's cat is a hint to Sam's ethnicity.
I like to name pegasi after deeds or actions, or sometimes personality, and name earth ponies after features of nature or plants. Unicorns I try to use family names, because I think of the three tribes, they're the ones most stuck-up on their family heritage.
I used Catalan for one griffon faction.
Unless it's Kyle, and it's a HiE.
One technique I've often used for 'background people' in non-pony, non-fanfiction novels (I guess that's just plain novels) is to use a phonebook to find names. They're natural . . . they're real. I won't do that for a major character, but for minor characters, I'll try to get a phonebook from the area and time period the story's set in, and mine it for plausible names. Barring that, street names in much of rural Michigan (and probably other places) are a real good indicator of the families who settled there. In the town where I live, I know lots of people who have the same last name as a local street, and I bet that's not a coincidence.
Understanding the names also allows me to also sneak meanings and insights into the character’s personality. Not always, but I like to do so from time to time when I have more time to work on a particular name. I tend to skip that if I need multiple names in a short time.
I've run into that before. I've ponified a few humans for BG characters, and I've had to be willing to really stretch the translation to make it sound believable.
If you write the character well enough, you'll make the name cool and memorable. If you can't write a good character . . . well, having a cool name won't help your character.
Tell me about it. The more mundane the name, the more believable the story is. I actually can't remember the name of the human in Arrow 18, and that's one of my favorite HiE's.
Yeah, Fred Pizarro just doesn't ring quite true.
p3.liveauctioneers.com/1513/70621/36228503_1_m.jpg
I'll bet he's not an actual conquistador
3020134
Including me, apparently.
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I am in full support of this idea.
3021187
You're new here, aren't you?
defint.narod.ru/gallery/fortheplot.png
3025835
I'd read the hell out of that.
3025925
Or maybe her parents were very drunk when . . . well, you know.
...Actually, that puts a whole new concept behind "Surprise."
cdn.squares.im/pony/pic/photo/2013/06/1bbf5c56e84d1f9c11f646648d420454_1024.png
(and it reminds me of a joke I can't tell here)
BRB--need to add bookmark.
3026972
I personally never assume anything involving Pinkie is a good source of canon. Although, Daring Do's official toy name is "Daring Do Dazzle."
3027110
I so wish that was official--it sounds so right.
3074515
That might be the case, except they didn't know they were signing their death warrants when they gave her that name (the original Applejack also had a pretty dark back story).
3074515
Don't encourage me. You know not what foul evils will result from your prodding.
3074479
The Philip Pullman method but yeah, I agree precisely for the reason that they are all real names.
Randolph "Randy" Edwards.
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Rissie noh D:
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I'm willing to risk it.
3074826
Well, they lasted long enough to have AppleBloom (unless you support the fanon that AB is actually AJ's daughter, who she's been raising as a sister).
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I see overwhelming support for Aurorawing Darkbeefstone Triumphbrand.
Too bad entries to Obs' OC contest is over eh. But perhaps I need to write a story, anyway eh?
EH?
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I think you do. I know I'd like to see what you come up with.
3075972
LOL, not at all, if anything I think it's the other way around. They are sisters but at AJ is more a mother figure to AB than anything. Which is part of why I like that interpretation of Applejack's name.
3076036
It would be interesting to read a thoughtful, well-reasoned fic where AB was Big Mac and AJ's very illegitimate daughter. If it was done well--like really really well, that could be a very powerful fic.