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  • 336 weeks
    To Those Who Favorited The Riding Pony

    If you don't follow me, and you're seeing this, it's probably because you favorited The Riding Pony. Maybe a while ago, the story is over two years old now. It's over on the side of this page, if that jogs your memory.

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  • 336 weeks
    What's Up?

    I'm sorry the next chapter of Though Hell Should Bar the Way is taking so long. It is still in the works, and it is on my "high priority" list. The only excuse I can offer is that I only get a limited amount of time to write, and a lot of the time Fall of Equestria isn't the spot I want to visit in my writing. But, sometimes it is, when I'm in a particularly dramatic mood, so the chapter

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    17 comments · 576 views
  • 354 weeks
    Though Hell Should Bar the Way FAQ

    Hey, aren’t you…?

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    50 comments · 1,377 views

Though Hell Should Bar the Way FAQ · 9:12pm Jul 2nd, 2014

Hey, aren’t you…?

O is an alternate username. I am someone else on the site, which is kind of an open secret in many circles. I’m not concerned about people here on FiMfiction knowing who I am, I use the alt primarily to keep people who might google my primary username from stumbling across my more hardcore stories (or having hard proof that I wrote them.) This means if you know who I am, please don’t state it in comments, on forums, or elsewhere on the internet that might show up in a google search. Chats, emails, or PMs are fine.

Keeping something a secret on the internet is impossible, but the idea is that this shouldn’t be easy for RL friends and family to find or connect to me.

What is Fall of Equestria?

Fall of Equestria is a dark anthro AU, portrayed primarily through pornographic artwork, with a few unfinished stories filling in the gaps. It’s the creation of non_creepy_nickname, and much of the official material was commissioned by him (though I have no idea how much story or detail was added by the artists and authors he hired. If you’re a part of the creative team and would like credit for some aspect of the setting that I used, let me know.) The purpose seems to be primarily as hardcore BDSM porn, with other fetishes like pedophilia/ephebophilia and bestiality worked in.

Because the setting is conveyed primarily through artwork, often with an insane amount of background detail to provide hints, the public knowledge of what exactly happened and how is currently limited, but my understanding of the basic story goes something like this:

Working with Discord and a traitorous brainwashed Shining Armor, a race of anthro caribou invaded an anthro-AU Equestria. Corrupting the magic of the Crystal Heart, they cast a brainwashing spell over all of Equestria, turning males into sadistic, amoral, lecherous slave masters, and females into submissive sex slaves. Females unicorns (and alicorns) had to have their horns removed, and female pegasi (and alicorns) their wings plucked and encased in sheaths.

The brainwashing didn’t work in all cases, and in the case of some ponies, like Princess Celestia, it was combined with some other mysterious forms of coercion. But she was eventually broken, along with Cadance and Twilight. Females who were brainwashed, or agreed to serve willingly for whatever reason, were given red collars and treated as pets or concubines. Those who resisted both the brainwashing and slavery were given black collars and forced into whatever situations the caribou and brainwashed stallions decided on.

Of the mane six, Twilight, Rarity, and Fluttershy are red collars, Applejack and Rainbow Dash are black, and Pinkie’s personality switches between Pinkie (red collar) and “Pinkamina” (black collar.)

Is Though Hell Should Bar The Way canon/official to Fall of Equestria?

No. I neither sought nor received any permission from the creator.

What aspects of Though Hell Should Bar the Way came from the creator of Fall of Equestria?

First and foremost, the events leading up to the start of the story, as well as the statuses of the mane six, Spike, Mac, and Princess Celestia are all based on situations shown or implied in official Fall of Equestria works. I tried to start with the board as non_creepy_nickname seems to have it laid out.

Most of the details of the setting also came from Fall of Equestria canon. I expanded on some, and added new details where the current ones were insufficient for a well-rounded story, but I tried to keep them all no more or less offensive than canon.

I should give special credit to one specific image, which I can’t link to because it’s obviously NSFW (though of the Fall of Equestria images it’s one of the less explicit.) It’s image #551432 on derpiboo.ru, drawn by eggonaught. The situation depicted and the information from the letters and charts in the background of the picture included most of the plot seeds I needed for this fic.

Is Though Hell Should Bar the Way a pro-Fall of Equestria story?

Not really. While Fall of Equestria is a shameless setting for displaying fetishes, I tried to show those from another angle, without eroticizing them, as the pure grimdark dystopia it is at the core. So fans of Fall of Equestria shouldn’t go into it expecting a lot of good clop material. In general, the view painted of the setting isn’t a loving one.

On the other hand, I did my best to include as many facts and details of the setting as have been revealed. I’m not an expert, by any means, and I’ve never been privy to any inside information from the creator, but as a fanfic my story is mostly compliant with currently established canon.

Is this an anti-Fall of Equestria story?

Depends on how you look at it. As I said, I’ve tried to respect the setting as it’s depicted, only changing or adding things which are not adequately explained. And I made an effort to make those changes things that could be presented in the original tone of the setting.

But this is intended to be a deconstruction of that tone, showing the darkness of the setting for what it is, without the sugarcoating of fetish fantasy. This includes both the traumatic (and often unsexy) effects on characters, and the monotony and dulled fury of a world where horror and evil is an hourly occurrence.

This is also a story that’s intended to eventually dismantle the setting, offering hope and recognizing the strength, virtue, and competence of the canon characters, even in the face of horror and trauma. I don’t think that in itself makes it an “anti-” story, since for all I know non_creepy_nickname might intend to do that himself down the road.

I have no idea if this will offend Fall of Equestria readers or the creative team behind it. My guess would be no… I’d think those folks are a lot harder to offend than that, and if they didn’t realize the potential implications of the setting I’d advise them to get help. I have nothing against people with slave/rape fantasies, but if it bothers you when someone points out that it’s fantasy, you are the reason people think those are creepy.

However, these idea are not incompatible, and I respect people who can understand both takes on the setting-- it shows that you might like your fetish fantasies, but you understand the other side of the story as well. I personally think that person is likely to be a responsible BDSM practitioner in real life; able to enjoy their fetishes while understanding that keeping things safe, sane, and consensual is the best way to avoid inflicting real, unsexy physical and mental harm.

Why did you write this?

In some ways, it’s a flip side to what I usually write. My previous stories are mostly taking hardcore ideas like foalcon, domination, and yes, even slave play, and showing how they can be acted out as consensual and sexy fantasies. This story is taking a non-consensual fantasy setting full of unsafe (and insane) practices, and pointing out why we need to recognize that this is a bad thing. I know that anyone who expresses opinions that something like Fall of Equestria would be a good idea is an insane extremist, but the internet does have its share of insane extremists and it’s never a bad idea to make sure they know that everyone else thinks they’re wrong.

I’ll also admit that this story hit something that I love as a writer. It doesn’t come through in my fanfic usually, but I do love to write about characters who survive traumatic events that leave them with psychological issues and philosophical questions about their actions and the universe in general, and act heroically in spite of it. I probably would never have written anything like that in MLP fanfiction, but when this idea presented itself, it was one I was happy to write.

Equestria doesn’t have Hell./ What does that title mean? / Where is that title from?

It’s from The Highwayman, a 19th century poem by Alfred Noyes. You can read it here, or listen to a slightly abridged version set to music (by Loreena McKennit) here. While it’s not similar in terms of story or characters, I felt like it evoked the tone I was going for.

(For those not up on their 19th century word usage, it translates to “Even if Hell stands in the way.")

If you have more questions, feel free to ask me below.

Report O · 1,377 views · Story: Though Hell Should Bar the Way ·
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Comments ( 50 )

What's the update schedule going to be like?

Or, how much is written/outlined/planned?

~Skeeter The Lurker

Hmm, this sorta-kinda calls to mind "Under the Yoke", a novel in the Draka alternate-history universe. Short version: worse-than-Nazi slave-owners win WWII, and conquer Europe. Some serfs adapt to their new stations, some don't. We get to see life on a plantation worked by fresh-caught Europeans, while the Resistance tries to do what damage it can (outright victory being impossible in the short term). I quite enjoyed that story, so between that and the fact that you're writing it, I'll give this one a try. :twilightsmile:

O #3 · Jul 2nd, 2014 · · ·

Good question!

I have plans for three arcs, each with its own optimistic ending (in case I never write all three.)

The first arc will be six chapters and update weekly, probably every Wednesday. The next chapter is written and ready to go, with the fourth almost there.

After that, things will depend on my personal life. I have something pretty big happening, and it might very well affect the writing of the next two arcs. But even if they never got written, this arc would be completed and go out on a hopeful note.


Ahhh, ok.

So only the first third is, essentially, outlined and planned?

Cool, I can dig it. Loving what you got out so far.

~Skeeter The Lurker

Equestria doesn’t have Hell

Equestria has Hell, its gates are a short distance from Ponyville, we've seen inside it, Twilight has helped to keep its prisoners from escaping, and Celestia and Luna seem to be in charge of it, or at least they can imprison people there. That's canon.


I wonder who that empty platform is for? :rainbowderp:

Why are you looking at me like that? :rainbowhuh:

I will admit up front, there is likely no chance of me reading this. Too traumatic for my comfort levels. That said I cannot applaud you enough for both writing it and the reasons you're writing it. Somehow I wasn't following you before but am definitely going to remedy that now. You seem like you're writing some brilliant sexy fun stuff and I'm always a huge supporter of folks who exhort others to think.


Well, they call it Tartarus. But "Though Tartarus Should Bar the Way" doesn't have the same punch.

I will confess that I am... wary.

I'm a FoE fan and tend to avoid this type of story. "Deconstructing" more often than not means "beating fans upside the head that they're everything wrong with mankind" in this context. Even if not, I'm certainly not the intended audience. So, I'll stay clear of this one as well. I hope you understand, or at least forgive me for it.

And to leave something useful: Shining Armor was one of the first victims of the Caribou. He wasn't originally a traitor; they brainwashed him in order to use his (and Cadance's) resources against Canterlot.

As I understand it, or at least how it was explained to me, Shining Armor and Cadance are not traitors. They were subtly brainwashed over a period of time. It's the only thing that makes sense, as in the "canon" story, Shining claims his reasoning for wanting to dethrone Celestia is because she constantly puts Twilight in danger. SO naturally, his reaction to Celestia constantly putting his baby sister in danger is to help instil a government that will cut off her horn, pluck her wings, enslave her, and treat her as a walking fuck toy for the rest of her life.


That's my biggest issue with Fall. It's not the fetish stuff. It used to be, but then some—such as yourself, or rather, your "secret identity"—showed me how I was wrong. Hell, I'm into some freaky shit, too, so I don't have a whole lot of moral high ground to stand on. I can't criticism it on the fetishes...

But I can criticize it on a story level, and in that regard, it's kinda crap. King Dainn is one of the more painful Mary Sues I've seen on the site, what with being stronger than all four alicorns and Discord, depending on who you talk to. Apparently, the original storyline was what you said, Discord is a collaborator, but it apparently changed to King Dainn trapped him and drained his power, thus becoming an alicorn. Because hey, what better way to make your OC seem more real than by making him an OC alicorn, amirite?

But even beyond that, the world suffers from the same basic issues as Rainbow Factory: no one is in character, and the only way the world makes any sense is if every single character is either insane or a drooling idiot, Shining Armor and Cadance being the biggest examples.

Looks heavy, but darkfics can be awesome when you're in the right mood to read them. But I have to be frank here... is this AppleDash or AppleDashLight? :trixieshiftleft:

O #11 · Jul 2nd, 2014 · · ·

I heard the Discord thing too, but the most recent canon pictures call that into question.

I knew Cadance was brainwashed, I hadn't heard that about Shining Armor. It does make more sense, but like so much of the setting it raises more questions than it answers. And given the way that the canon work dole out (sometimes contradictory) information, I'll just have to do my best and not worry at some point.

It's totally up to you. I have nothing against Fall of Equestria fans in general-- I'd imagine that thanks to The Riding Pony I probably already have a few of them following me, and given the subject of that fic it would be kind of hypocritical of me to present people who are into slave fetish as "everything wrong with mankind."

This fic is more about trying to add a dimension that the original is missing, which does kind of point out that there's a dimension that the original is missing, but isn't intended to insult anyone.

AppleDash. Twilight has enough to deal with.

This seems like a rather illogical universe.

female pegasi (and alicorns) their wings plucked and encased in sheaths.

Why didn't they simply amputate the wings as well as feet, put out one eye to ruin depth perception and remove all but 2 fingers for that matter?

I guess it is just fetish porn so this doesn't really matter, but I felt compelled to point out this strangeness.

O #13 · Jul 2nd, 2014 · · ·

In universe? I have no idea. On a meta level, I understand that non_creepy_nickname doesn't like blood or permanent mutilation. So, basically, because it's not his kink.


Yeah, I just like to remind people that the males are victims, too. Not in any way as bad as the women, of course! The women have it so much worse, but the guys are being tricked and brainwashed into hurting the women they love, all the while smiling and laughing at their pain. Imagine being Spike or Shining Armor and waking up one day to see that you've spent the last few years beating and raping your baby/older sister? That's why in that little picture I had made, I mentioned in passing Shining's reaction when he woke up. I would think many caribou unfortunate to be withing eyesight of him would pay dearly...

So this is Spec Ops: The Line for fanfiction. Interesting, I'll probably give it a read later, but today already sucks too much for a depressing fic.

O #16 · Jul 3rd, 2014 · · 2 ·

I do totally get that. It's one reason I made sure to point out that Applejack and Mac both know how lucky they are that Mac wasn't brainwashed, and that Applejack really does feel bad for having to hurt Spike.

On the other hand, for the characters at the time of the fic, I think it's understandable to view almost anything male as the enemy for the time being. Brainwashed or not, the stallions aren't going to hesitate to abuse them, and avoiding that has to come before consideration of their motives. Dash in particular has developed a streak of actual misandry, but that comes from particularly sadistic treatment and is part of a whole mess of issues she's just discovering.

To me, the brainwashing is one of the most cheesy, obvious elements to get characters to participate in OOC fetish behavior. But it's also the core of a lot of the most interesting psychological/philosophical character related questions that I'm excited to write about. For brainwashed stallions and red collar mares like Twilight, Cadance, or Fluttershy, who are pretty much collaborators, how will they react to what they've done? Even knowing they were brainwashed, assuming they still have memories of the acts it's going to make them question a lot about themselves, and it's going to make relationships and trust complicated. For the black collar slaves, it's not going to be easy to forget even if they can forgive.

Like I told Applejinx in the comments of the fic, it would be disrespectful to the characters to hand wave the wreckage this leaves behind in the end. And I totally understand that includes the stallions.


Oh, and I never doubted you! And you're right, things like philosophical debates fall to the side when your life is on the line.

I just finished reading the first two chapters, and despite one or two little spelling derps, it was immensely entertaining. Though I love them dearly, my big complaint about Gabriel LaVeder's FoE series is that he portrays the caribou as such cartoonishly idiotic villains that they lose their menace. I mean, yeah, we know the whole setup is silly, but he goes out of his way to drive home, in narration, how dumb and ignorant they are. Hard to have a compelling narrative with badass heroes when they're basically picking on the Special Ed kids, you know?

But the way you portrayed Twilight was downright chilling. Her genuine glee at seeing AJ raped and her horror at the assertion that a mare's opinion matters were really disturbing. Rainbow is similarly pitch perfect. It seems that she was never keen on stallions to begin with, so developing a deep hatred for them makes sense.

You should also know that this is the first AppleDash story I have favorited. Tchernobog almost had a heart attack. :rainbowlaugh:

Comment posted by Karrakaz deleted Jul 3rd, 2014
O #19 · Jul 3rd, 2014 · · 1 ·

Huh. I thought for sure you knew who this alt belongs to, and you already cussed me out over the AppleDashLight contest... I'm surprised you were following this one.

Oh well.

Well I have been hoping to see a story like this one pop up for a VERY long time. I have enjoyed some of the art from this setting, but most of the time I just find it sickening. I love seeing worlds through a different set of eyes, from a great many fics on this site that show why a pleasant looking world might not be so nice, to stories like this one showing why a unpleasant one is straight up fucked up.:pinkiecrazy:

Really, dude? Really?

You ever wonder why so many people don't like you?


I didn't, still don't really.

Writing a story like that is always going to achieve the opposite of what you're trying to do. Some people will always be driven to look for the source material and it doesn't deserve that. Whoever thought of this should be killed in the most painful way possible, and anyone who propagates it is no better.

You know, your second post was a better way of getting your opinion across than your first one.

Really, generally speaking, it is usually better (and more effective) to not just rage out at someone but to instead tell them precisely why you aren't happy with them. Cursing people out or saying that you hope they will die (and yes, I know, no one really means this - well, almost no one) is generally not as effective a means of getting across your negative opinion of their writing.

Personally this sort of stuff does not exactly, shall we say, light my fires in general, and with ponies in particular it goes into really, really messed up territory, but i didn't bother to make a post saying that I am utterly uninterested in the story because, well, who cares? I mean, I guess it is feedback of a sort, but I don't follow O (though I do follow their alter-ego) and I don't expect people to only write things I approve of.

I know some people really enjoy this sort of stuff, but for me, it is a bridge too far, especially with ponies.

Comment posted by Titanium Dragon deleted Jul 3rd, 2014


There are many things I don't enjoy. Tragedy, most alternate universes and the like, and I don't begrudge them that.

This? This is sick, and I don't want anything to do with anyone that feels it's an acceptable premise for any story.

O, I guess good on you for trying to dredge up something meaningful out of this horrid premise... but you're really only serving to bring attention to something that really doesn't need attention. There are some series that are just inherently bad, and they have fans who don't care. The fans won't read this, because they want fetishy spank material, and fans of your usual work won't be inclined to read it either.

So... this story is basically going to appeal to no one. Now, maybe you wrote it for yourself, which is allowed, of course, but it just seems like pointlessly controversial material that no one will enjoy and will only serve to drive away readers who now see you as the author of... this.

I won't judge you, but this decision seems unsound.

You've gotta give it a try a, Derpsby. Trust me on this. It just... feels right, despite the theme.

O #28 · Jul 3rd, 2014 · · 1 ·

2253265 2253310

On the surface, I understand this way of thinking. However, according to my thoughts on the subject, it falls apart.

People are entitled to their fetishes. As long as their real world actions are safe, sane, and consensual, I don't support trying to control what they think about when they get off.

People are entitled to like bad stories. If they weren't, we'd have to censor 90% of both FiMfiction and the New York Times Best Sellers.

There's nothing wrong with taking the premise of a bad story and turning it into something worth reading.

I don't like tragedy either, and I don't write it. I also don't like most AUs, but when one allows for a kind of story that couldn't and shouldn't be shown in the original setting, and when that happens to be the kind of story I'm interested in, I'll support it and write the story.

I do recognize that Fall of Equestria is, in many ways, a truly creepy setting (especially because there are some folks out there who don't understand that this kind of slave fetish world is a fantasy.) That's why I wrote a story about how creepy it is, removing the fantasy aspects. People who like my story (or can see the setting is creepy) and also enjoy the original story are not the problem.


Having attempted (And ultimately failed) to engage NCN and his rabid fanclub on many of these issues myself, I applaud you for finally going the distance and taking this one on. It has been to my very great personal frustration that NCN and his rabid fans have refused to actually admit the flaws of their work, constantly deflecting any criticism of the same with whining proclamations that since the work is 'just porn' it shouldn't be criticized or held to any kind of standards. NCN Even - hilariously - tried to claim his story was about the characters suffering and their reaction to it.

While I'm certain it is much like throwing fuel-oil onto a fire, the fact that someone was willing to finally kick this thing in the teeth is... liberating. (Mostly because it means I don't have to do it myself.) I personally could never end up writing something like this, mostly because I lack the fortitude to engage the blatant stupidity of the work without feeling tainted by it. (Although I am writing what I'm considering to be a ... BETTER way of getting to some of this fetish-fuel.)

That all being said, you have my admiration and I hope you derived some level of enjoyment from finally bringing a cold dose of actual literary talent into this work. Bravo, and have a moustache. :moustache:

People are indeed entitled to their fetishes.

That doesn't mean that everyone else isn't entitled to be squicked out by them, though, and people do judge others by what fetishes they hold - especially if they don't know them very well. And frankly, a lot of the people with messed up fetishes tend to be at least a little bit creepy themselves - especially the more vocal advocates for the fetishes. And no one sane wants to associate with those people. A big driver of why a lot of people don't associate with the furry fandom despite being furries is because of the very vocal and very insane people with no social skills who are associated with the fandom and who throw spaghetti all over the place.

For me, personally, the more realistic a fetish is, the more likely it is to be creepy. That is to say, tentacle rape, soft vore, inflation, ect. are so absurd that they aren't really creepy to me; they may be weird, but they're so unrealistic it is obvious that they are pure fantasy. As you creep back towards realism (hard vore, nullification, ect.) things get increasingly creepy for me, whereas if they cross a certain point (say, mild bondage) it gets a lot less creepy because it is simply less extreme and thus if someone is into it it just is kind of funny rather than a bit terrifying about what lies beneath the surface that makes them think that the fetish is reasonable.

That's not to say that there really is anything there; I know a lot of people who have rape fetishes find real-life rape horrifying. But when you see what some people are interested in, what they talk about, you have to worry about the sane part of safe, sane, and consensual. And it isn't even wrong for people to worry about it, because some people are genuinely messed up and genuinely messed up people tend to be attracted to fringe communities.

Hell, I've been told outright by more than one furry on more than one occasion, just randomly out of the blue, that they actively practice zoophilia in real life. And that is really, really, really fucking creepy. Doesn't even matter if I don't have much of a moral problem with zoophilia (I mean, I eat animals, after all; they are delicious. Having sex with them isn't any worse), I just find it incredibly squicky and messed up. And the fact that they just told me that really makes me leery of being around them, because that means that you're hanging out around folks who find that sort of behavior acceptable.

That's one of the biggest problems with the furry community in many ways - if you find everything acceptable, it means you end up spending a lot of time around bad people. And the more time you spend around bad people, the less any good person wants to associate with you because they don't want to deal with them. It is like having a misogynistic friend who plays roleplaying games - sure, they might be okay to hang around if you're a guy, but if you're a girl, they're not okay to hang around at all. And that means that if you tolerate said person, you are driving away other people whom you might rather associate with.

especially because there are some folks out there who don't understand that this kind of slave fetish world is a fantasy.

Yeah, but it isn't pure fantasy. There really are people who keep other people locked up in their basements. Not many of them - they're very rare - but, well, it definitely happens.

O #31 · Jul 3rd, 2014 · · 1 ·

Totally true, but that's not quite the same as believing they "deserve to be killed in the most painful way possible," as Karrakaz proposed.

And obviously people who keep women in basements are among those who can't tell their fantasies from reality. They are scary, but they're more likely to be the people auto-downvoting me for "ruining" the setting than the people who enjoy the setting as fetish fuel and also recognize it as a creepy dystopia.

As I said, the people who like both my fic and the original flavor aren't likely to be the problem.

Is there like a Karra signal signal that compels you to follow him to anything he's pointlessly bitching at?

To be fair, the only reason I'm here again is because someone else commented on Karrakaz's post on Skype. I did read the blog entry when it first went up, and then came back for the drama.

They probably heard about it from the same place that I did, seeing as they're in that Skype chat as well.

Or, you know, because they're Karrakaz's friend. I mean, Karrakaz does have those.

2254498 Hey Jake! Nice to talk to you too. I was just telling O about how I felt this was a little pointlessly dramatic. I mean, I do get it, she's trying to delve something meaningful out of something horrible, that's noble and all, just unfortunately not very effective.

She could also write actually horrifying stories about how Aryann is killing earth ponies in camps. That would be taking the fandom idea and showing how it would actually be as well. I don't mean this as snarky, or offensive in anyway, I think she's trying to do something great, but I just don't think it's going to have the intended effect. She's trying to hold up a mirror to show people what's actually there, but all they will see is what they want to see.

Moral of the story: never write anything controversial or deconstructionist, ever.

2255883 Well, if it teaches nothing, and only serves to drive people away by your association... Free speech, I suppose. I guess she could tackle Fallout Equestria next?

O is offering a way that this universe can work. It is an attempt to show that the true spirit of the show can overcome the horrible circumstances placed on the ponies.

I mean, if you find that worthless, fine. However, I don't go onto other people's stuff just to say they shouldn't write something or that they should die for writing something I think they shouldn't write (which is what you and Karra are doing).


2255920 Oh? I wasn't aware that I said that. *Looks back.* No, pretty sure I said I applauded her efforts, and that she was more than free to write this if she wanted, just that she'd drive away people who liked her other work and the actual people she'd want to see this won't read it. Weird. Are you sure you even read my comments?


People are entitled to their fetishes. As long as their real world actions are safe, sane, and consensual, I don't support trying to control what they think about when they get off.

Can I get this on a T-Shirt, please? I mean, I probably wouldn't wear it, but it'd be good to know it exists in some physical form, because it's right on the money. I have only shallowly delved into the Fall universe, it has elements of things I like, but I think it's a little too extreme for my tastes, which I guess is the point, to each their own.

You basically said O had nothing to gain from writing the story.

And really, the reason you're here is because people were calling out your buddy's assholish behavior. You're trying to defend his asinine yelling by pretending he has ground to stand on and saying this story has no reason to exist.

2255975 Actually I haven't commented at all on what karra said. I am actually wondering if you have read them now. I've been saying that her efforts will tend to give even more attention to a universe that should die in obscurity. And no, that's not to say the author should die, I mean the setting should die. But again, free speech. Have a nice night, Jake.

O #42 · Jul 4th, 2014 · · 1 ·

Here's the question I keep coming back to in this point of view: If I can write a really good story from this setting, should it die in obscurity? I'm not saying that my fic will somehow make what's come before any better, but can a quality take on a setting make it "worth it" for something problematic to have come before?

In terms of response, it's been very interesting. While I've obviously offended a lot of people (I'm not sure from which side, but I sure ticked them off) I've also gotten a lot of very thoughtful support for it from both sides of the aisle. I feel like it's really weeded out readers on both sides who are likely to judge a book by its cover, and I look forward to the reactions of the readers I do have.

However, this is really something I'm writing for myself. The combination of the puzzle of keeping the story within two different canons, while trying to tell a story neither ever intended; the chance to actually push characters to their absolute mental limits and make them have conversations about things they never want to talk about; and the chance to present philosophical questions that don't have an answer-- I love this stuff. It's what I actually write, when I'm not writing pony. I've written over 300k of this type of thing in original fiction (okay, so the grimdark is more localized, but it echos through the setting) which almost no one has ever read. The handful of people following this is a fine audience for me.

As for people who leave because of this, they'll come back if I decide to write some kinky clop again. Finding an audience for that is never really hard.

Well, it's certainly encouraged me to redouble my efforts, so there's that.
The answer to art is always "more art", not "shut up and die, asshole". (Except Andy Warhol. Valerie Solanas had that right, at least. :trollestia:)

I sympathize, and hope that someday one of us will be able to produce something you'll enjoy without reservation. I enjoy doing non-canon FoE art on the side, but don't water it down for fear of making people too comfortable with the setting. It's one of those things people shouldn't be able to follow without being forced to confront their feelings for it, you know?
If you want, feel free to tell me what you'd like to see, so I can put it on the Big List Of Future Projects To Get People Off With. :scootangel:

2256289 I'm afraid that any of my suggestions would turn it thoroughly into Not-Fall-of-Equestria, and I'm not here to crap on anyone's parade or anything.

As I've said though, it contains elements of what I like on a fetishy level, which I won't go into here for fear of some chums on Skype who'll be reading this, and I like being spared weird looks :P ; but I think one of the biggest detractors for me is the sheer lack of optimism, that everything is just hopeless (which it seems this particular piece of fiction tries to remedy). I do like reading about characters overcoming a shitty situation. What I'd really like to see is a perspective of the life of those who have formed some form of resistance movement, which judging by one of the pictures, does seem to exist. Have they successfully separated themselves from the general public? Or are they just lying in wait, getting together to plan in the dead of night if/when they can? What's their goal (okay, that should be obvious), and how can they achieve it? Or can Reds (that aren't just going along with it to escape the general torture of being blacks, but completely brainwashed reds), actually come to their senses? How would they handle it?

As I said, it'd be thoroghly un-Fall material, since it's basically a fetish scenario taken to a major extreme, and as long as it stays strictly fantasy, that is, no one actually starts believing that it's a good idea to do in the real world, then I don't really have a problem with it existing, as it isn't actively hurting anyone. People can't help what they like in a sexual sense, and I believe that if they repress it, it could be more unhealthy than fapping to drawn images ever could be. Whether it actually is or not, well, that's up to people who are much smarter than I am.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to even try to make an FoE-lite, for that reason below, and because it'd be disrespectful to the creator.
And all the other art sitting around half finished on my HD is... well, gayer than everyone is for Braeburn. But maybe someday I can make something of more general interest.

2256169 Well, potentially, if there is anything worthwhile to explore, I suppose you can do something with any horrible setting in the fandom. Now, it's usually better to pick a GOOD setting, for instance WD does some great work with his Sweetie Belle Chronicles which really explores each of those settings and Sweetie's reaction to them.

As for the people you offend or who stop watching... if what you write makes you happy, that's what's important in the end. I can't fault that attitude, because it's why I write as well. I just tend towards things other people will enjoy so... success by coincidence, I suppose. Again, I have not, nor will I, suggest you have no right to produce this, or to continue to live, just for the record. I just dearly wish you hadn't. :fluttershyouch:

2252118 The coffin Luna pic among other sources someplace say Discord offered Dainn his magic. In exchange for what, nopony knows, but I've always found it amazing how even though the series first started immediately after Magical Mystery Cure, there are still elements from Twilight's Kingdom utilized in Discord's backstory, despite its nonexistence. ;3

Hoo boy howdy... I learned of Fall of Equestria's existence through Gabriel LaVadier being quite vocal about. I think I might be better off not knowing about FoE, but whatever. Personally, I find some of the stuff to be hot, but I do find one thing about this setting to be truly appalling; a whole society has been undermined. Like, how is anything progressive to come from a civilization that spends all its time fucking?! These kind of things are usually depicted as isolated cases. I dunno. I view sex as a bit of a reward in life, but not the very thing life should be centralized around. Shit wouldn't ever get done, eh? Sex, as limited as it is, is special because of it.

Yeah, this particular detail is how FoE rustles my jimmies. I'm ok-ish with the rest of it. I guess. Maybe.

Now, Ms. O, I'm about to read your fic. From the way you word it, I have reservations about reading this. It sounds like it's more grim dark than anything I've ever read. And I read a lot of dark crap. I love to it. But this is beyond even my tolerance for it. This sounds even more horrible than what Bad Horse graces this site with on a semi-regular basis-



Oh God. Oh Lord!

I wonder who that empty platform is for?
Why are you looking at me like that?

Bad Horse: capable of scaring gothy catbois shitless with sheer implications 0_0

Y'know, Though Hell Should Bar the Way don't seem as scary right now. Imma start read nao, eh?

K thnx bai :3

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