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Starman Ghost


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Apr
11th
2014

Since people are making a fuss about this · 2:57am Apr 11th, 2014

When I signed onto Fimfiction this evening, I happened to notice that Body and Mind had its dislike count spike overnight. Then someone linked me to a certain blog post, and all became clear.

So as not to give the impression that I'm trying to start a manhunt, I'll leave the author of this blog post unnamed. Long story short, he was using an original character of mine against my wishes. I told him I wanted him to stop, he put up an announcement saying that he would, and his fans (some of whom are also my fans) got upset with me. And by "got upset," I mean, "I've lost followers and Body and Mind got a 30% increase in downvotes overnight." Along with comments calling me an asshole, a whiny bitch, a cunt, and many other colorful names.

If you're reading this and you're one of the people who decided to stop reading my stories because of what I did, then good. I don't need or want your approval. I do not want to get involved with people like you in any capacity. You were not doing me any favors by following my writing. You are not the kind of people I would ever write for. You are, in fact, the exact sort of person that makes me (and many other authors) not want to write.

To my fans who have not turned against me over this, I want to thank you. You're the reason I'm here. You're the reason I write. No amount of puke and bile from anyone else will change that. And by the way, work on the next chapter is coming along well :raritywink:

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Comments ( 79 )

Wow, thats, a **** move from someone snatching and grabbing. And here's hoping those folks have a knock of sense in them, hopefully something large and blunt with a great deal of inertial mass to it.

Wow, people down voting you because you asked someone to stop using your OC? People are dicks.

The guy even posted on the blog that people shouldn't downvote your stories. And like I said on his blog, I absolutely understand your reasons for not wanting him to use your character. He's going back and editing her out so as to keep the story going without it using your character. I really am disappointed that people did downvote Body and Mind, I would have thought they would've known better but... I guess not.

1999264
AFAIK Starman revoked his earlier permission to use his (another) story as a long-before backstory for another work they liked and this inconvenience slows down the process (that was slow to begin with). Some people are... seriously displeased. Guess, why.

1999264
1999258

It wasn't exactly a snatch-and-grab. As 1999374 said, he previously gave permission to someone to make a sequel to a story he wrote, which naturally includes the OC.

Then he just recently revoked that permission, necessitating a rewrite.

He also asked the author in question to remove the sequel he was writing from Fimfiction entirely.

Naturally, some of the fans of the latter story and author are displeased and have taken to expressing their displeasure (against the author-in-question's wishes, actually).

Comment posted by MoonriseUnicorn deleted Apr 11th, 2014

1999415 Its funny, that he said none of these things. You know, if that was the case, wouldn't starman have actually said that? Instead its hearsay and downvotes for those supporting the idea that taking a character? Which seems a bit more plausible?

That A, the above happened, or B, out of the blue, the author goes Nope nope nope! take it away?

The only way B is a remotely possibility is something that the author would find abhorrent to see, like slash/snuff equivalents in writing with said one doing that, or just crude crud that none should be involved in. To my equivalent perceptions of course.

Downvote my replies to heck and back, I just don't care. But at least present an argument that doesn't paint you as a sycophant of the writer in question that this had to occur to. If you can prove the author had it revoked, fine, i'll accept that. Wouldn't be the first time, but present the facts in a better light please?

1999415

Then he just recently revoked that permission, necessitating a rewrite.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I didn't make the author do anything. Despite what some of the comments on his blog post imply, I never threatened him with legal action (which I couldn't have done anyway). These were my exact words to him:

If you don't rewrite the story so that she's removed from it, I'll be publicly stating that you have used a character of mine against my express wishes.

That's it. That's what people are pissed off at me about. They're appalled that I would dare to publicly say that someone's using a character of mine in a way I don't like.

1999459 To clear things up, I did say he could use the character at one point. He sat on the story for a year without touching it, and I thought he'd abandoned it, but he recently started work on it again. I would have told him I didn't want him using my character much sooner if he'd given any reason to think he hadn't abandoned the story.

Comment posted by Starman Ghost deleted Apr 11th, 2014

1999459
EDIT: See the above post.

1999475 Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate this.

1999484 What I meant was in the way your words had been written. If you were to look at the way it was written, to the topic at hand, it to perception gave the appearance of you defending the author this happened to, not starman. That is what I meant, and while my words were direct, that I implied something else, apparently happened.

Fanfiction. Serious Business.

1999475
Ahem. You know, when I was young and bad boy and only recently decided that I don't want to lie, at least directly, I had hard time finding words to make impression I wanted, and some choices of words were awfully similar to yours in this comment.

Not that I'm implying anything, of course.

Comment posted by Starman Ghost deleted Apr 11th, 2014

1999556 If you think I'm a liar, call me a liar. I don't have patience for passive-aggressiveness.

1999562
I already said that I'm not implying anything. *shrug*

1999575 There are two possibilities here.

1. You really aren't passive-aggressive, and you decided to post something off-topic for no discernible reason.
2. You're being passive-aggressive and lying about it.

Either way, I don't think I want you posting here anymore, so I'm gonna go ahead and block you.

Ok, SG, there's one problem here.

Firstly, according to Knighty, people do not need permission to use characters from otehr people's fics. They just need to give credit where credit is due. However, the sticking point here is that the character in question is not the same as the character you wrote. Or perhaps I should rephrase that. The character being used in this story is an OC who is for all intents and purposes based on the OC in question, from a fanfic you abandoned. As such, this character is effectively a different character altogether. But the reason people are upset? You're screwing with someone else's fanfic simply because of something you really have no business bitching about in the first place due to having disavowed the original fic to begin with. So of course they're upset when you suddenly start getting on someone else's back over a fic you honestly have no reason or right to really be screwing with, and causing other authors grief, let alone their readers. Especially when updates on said fic are few and far between to begin with.

In other words, Starman, you're really just coming off as petty, so it's not a surprise as to why people are upset. Could they have been less brusque in displaying their anger? Sure. But that doesn't mean their anger isn't justified.

1999597 Who said anything about rules? I never told Ix I was gonna get his fic pulled off of the site. Literally all I said was "If you keep using this character I created in a way I don't like, I'll tell people that you're using this character I created in a way I don't like." What was I supposed to do, pretend I liked the way he was using my character?

If you've seen the replies to his blog post, then it should be immediately obvious that it's not going to hurt him anyway. His fans plainly don't care about him using the character against my wishes, but at the same time somehow act as if I'd brought down armageddon on him. Their own goddamn outrage over what I threatened Dalek with proves that they're making a big deal over something that wouldn't matter anyway.

What we have here is a bunch of "fans" of something I created who have no regard for it except how much they can loot from it.

1999614

See, here's the thing. Just the way you're putting it in that post alone, shows why people got upset. If you didn't like the way an OC who is for all intents and purposes your character's expy or again more likely a character based on the OC you created in all honesty, then fine, you just say 'not the way I would have used the character'. You don't say to him 'well if you keep using this character I'm going to go around making a stink about the fact that I don't like the way the character is written'. You basically threatened him and then tried to justify it. Again, you not only gave him permission to write the fic which he also doesn't need I might add, again per Knighty, not that it matters in the realm of fanfiction in general anyway (Just ask Chat. Remember Aftermath? That's pretty much why she got away with it.) to begin with, which would strictly speaking have left the character open for use as well. The fact is, the Evening Star he writes? Isn't the same as your Evening Star. There's some three damn centuries of life experience between the two, so his character is effectively an all new character he made. She's just based on yours. An expy at the absolute most. The name itself isn't even original to you as other fics not even TCB related have used the name before and after yours.

So honestly? If you didn't like his Evening Star? Fine, say as much in the comments. But don't basically...well, do what you DID. A lot of people who follow your current fic did so because they loved Not Alone as much as because they love your current fic. So when they see what seems to amount to you just screwing with another author and a fic they're also heavily invested in...well, you get what happened. The loss of readership and a mass of downvotes. To say nothing of the insults.

I won't say you're coming off as bad as a certain author we all know and whose works we dislike for obvious reasons (misanthropy), but basically this entire mess came about because you did something you not only didn't have to do, you really shouldn't have tried to do either. You disavowed Not Alone pretty much altogether. Dalek IX has created a new story set in the same universe with a character inspired by/based on an OC you had in the aforementioned fic, but is fundamentally different due to changes in her life between the departure of Equestria and her life in space.

I suggest every one reads this

Pausing for a second, can you please just clear one thing up for me?

What I've gotten from this is – you've given someone you green light to write a sequel to your story, and you didn't really like the way one of your OC’s has been written. If so, fair enough I can understand that.

But what I really can’t understand is if you've 'disowned' not alone then why do you even care how that OC is written in the first place, and why even start this whole thing at all?

You see, the problem is that IXs blog post isn't just what you say here that you told him, that you're going to:

If you don't rewrite the story so that she's removed from it, I'll be publicly stating that you have used a character of mine against my express wishes.

It goes to say that you asked him to remove the fic from Fimfiction altogether, and that you accused him of leeching from you from what you have written.

If you honestly expected absolutely no backlash from this, asking another author to remove, or edit his story (a popular one, which got your permission to be published too), even if he doesn't have to do it, accusing him of leeching from you, and asking to remove a character based on your OC from a story you disowned, then I just don't know what to think.

For your "30% increase in downvotes", that would mean an increase of what, 5-7 max? That's not much. As for the followers, not surprising.

Okay, we need to have you and Dalek Ix come together and have a frank talk, because either Dalek misread your message or you gave him the impression that you wanted to take down his story unless he rewrote Evening Star into someone else.

First off, I have to condemn the upset fans who downvoted Body and Mind (a grand total of 8, which while noticeable, isn't as significant as you make it out, SG) because that's petty and juvenile. But don't make it into a big deal as you did ('30% increase of downvotes!' Be specific with the numbers because 30% sounds a helluva lot more than 8 votes).

As for the followers, well, that's completely up to the followers themselves. Considering what you did with Not Alone and tried to do with the ACB group, you've left a poor impression on a lot of people, and while Dalek misinterpreted your request and communicated it thus, it only riled those people with a grudge against you. This is a case of miscommunication.

However, you're still being somewhat petty with this situation. Why are you making a fuss about this only now? What changed? Pulling this move is dickish considering that you allowed Conquer the Stars and that character for two years. Is she your character? Legally she isn't, but for all other intents and purposes, she could be, I'm not here to discuss character ownership. I understand your want for not being associated with TCB at all, but how many people besides Dalek knew or remembered that Evening Star was used in Not Alone? Even I had forgotten that the Evening Star in Conquer the Stars was supposed to be the same Evening Star in Not Alone, and I was an avid fan of the latter, because it had been so long.

The fix to this is for you and Dalek to have a good talk and make your points clear with each other. In my mind, this wasn't an issue until you decided to make it into one, and that makes you seem like the one who cast the first stone and as such, the aggressor. It's an unfair assertion, but it's the one you project.

I'm just tired of having to deal with this, because it's unnecessary drama.

1999614

I used to respect you. But what you've done here can only be described as "a dick move".

You're threatening to kill a story because it alludes to a character from a story that you've purged and abandoned. After previously explicitly giving the greenlight for them to do so.

The only thing you're achieving here is coming off as a massive dick and invoking the Streisand effect.

And also pretty much everything warwolf said. 1999597 1999623

Unfollowing due to author dickery.

I would argue that anyone unfollowing you over this isn't someone you want following you anyway. If someone makes works based on something they didn't create, they are beholden to the original creator, and you're exercising that right. You certainly approached it far more nicely than I would in your situation.

Assuming it is Conquer the Stars that you're talking about, I can only wish it was actually going away and not getting a retcon -- it was 20000+ words of dry bullshit and humanwank. The latter is subjective, the former is objective.

1999840
Are you purposefully trying to start a flame war?

1999871
Of course not. I have come to terms with the fact that Fimfiction's collective ability to recognize good writing is abysmal, and only accurate at all by merit of sheer numbers. There's no point.

I'm expressing support for an author I follow and his decisions, and airing an opinion which I then link to an (admittedly, empty) wish. The fact that it is unpopular doesn't mean I'm setting out to start a fire.

The worst possible thing you can do is respond to flamebait, anyway. Good thing none of us do that, eh?

1999923

I'm expressing support for an author I follow and his decisions, and airing an opinion which I then link to an (admittedly, empty) wish. The fact that it is unpopular doesn't mean I'm setting out to start a fire.

[...]it was 20000+ words of dry bullshit and humanwank. The latter is subjective, the former is objective.

Need I say anything? You're saying that it's an opinion yet you've said that it objectively human wank (which it isn't, as I and others have already explained why). Hence, you are purposefully flame baiting.

Stop it.

1999933
...Are you tired? Do you need a rest? Reading comprehension taking a sick day?

Former means first. Latter means last. At least, I think it does. Let me check:

Former: denoting the first or first mentioned of two people or things.
"I take the former view"
synonyms: first-mentioned

Latter: denoting the second or second mentioned of two people or things.
"the Russians could advance into either Germany or Austria—they chose the latter option"

I think Google's right on this one.

[...]it was 20000+ words of dry bullshit and humanwank. The latter is subjective, the former is objective.

I listed two opinions. Join the dots, lad. I said it was objectively 20000 words of dry bullshit, and subjectively humanwank.

1999957
Well, aren't you a lovely chap? Alright, I made a small mistake. No need to talk down to me.

But again, the fact that you're saying that it is objectively 20 K words of 'dry bullshit' as you say is entirely subjective. It's a goddamn opinion that you hold, you're still trying to garner a flame response from that.

1999964
I enjoy patronizing, not gonna lie. I take my pleasure where I can.

I found CtS to have a pace so slow, it made Tolkien's scenery porn look brief by comparison. What was it, 10,000 words and they barely got to Equestria? That's a bit dry for me, and I eat dry weetbix for fun. The excessive amounts of spaceship description and overtones of pointlessly evil Celestia did not help.

So, for the sake of not continuing to post in an argument that someone else started on someone else's blog post, you were right, and it is a subjective opinion.

A couple nitwits get really mad and mindlessly downvote, the user mentioned in OP is modifying their story, and nothing else of actual consequence happens. Looks like things turned out pretty well. I don't see what the fuss is.

1999623

If you didn't like the way an OC who is for all intents and purposes your character's expy or again more likely a character based on the OC you created in all honesty, then fine, you just say 'not the way I would have used the character'. You don't say to him 'well if you keep using this character I'm going to go around making a stink about the fact that I don't like the way the character is written'.

Except it's not just a matter of "I wouldn't have used the character this way." That would imply that I was indifferent to how he used my character, which I'm not. Why should I pretend to be okay with something I'm not?

The fact is, the Evening Star he writes? Isn't the same as your Evening Star. There's some three damn centuries of life experience between the two, so his character is effectively an all new character he made. She's just based on yours. An expy at the absolute most. The name itself isn't even original to you as other fics not even TCB related have used the name before and after yours.

Because there are just so many Evening Stars in the fandom who are unicorns that have a talent for acting and an internet addiction and were stranded on Earth in the aftermath of a conversion-induced war between Earth and Equestria, right?

There aren't.

A lot of people who follow your current fic did so because they loved Not Alone as much as because they love your current fic. So when they see what seems to amount to you just screwing with another author and a fic they're also heavily invested in...well, you get what happened. The loss of readership and a mass of downvotes.

Addressed this in my blog post, third paragraph. It's clear to me that some of my readers and followers just hung onto me because I wrote something they could hold up as a darling of the ACB movement. They turned against me the minute I remotely inconvenienced them.

Just ask Chat. Remember Aftermath? That's pretty much why she got away with it.

I don't really think bringing up Aftermath is really helping your case, considering the same people who are rallying around Ix's right to use my character without people knowing I didn't like it were outraged over Chatoyance using BronyOfSteel's characters even though he didn't give a shit.

1999698

What I've gotten from this is – you've given someone you green light to write a sequel to your story, and you didn't really like the way one of your OC’s has been written. If so, fair enough I can understand that.

But what I really can’t understand is if you've 'disowned' not alone then why do you even care how that OC is written in the first place, and why even start this whole thing at all?

I gave them the green light over a year ago. They proceeded to sit on the story for the past year or so, by which point I assumed they'd abandoned it. Then they started working on it again.


1999794

If you honestly expected absolutely no backlash from this, asking another author to remove, or edit his story (a popular one, which got your permission to be published too), even if he doesn't have to do it, accusing him of leeching from you, and asking to remove a character based on your OC from a story you disowned, then I just don't know what to think.

Oh, I expected backlash. That doesn't mean it's not bullshit.

1999816

First off, I have to condemn the upset fans who downvoted Body and Mind (a grand total of 8, which while noticeable, isn't as significant as you make it out, SG) because that's petty and juvenile. But don't make it into a big deal as you did ('30% increase of downvotes!' Be specific with the numbers because 30% sounds a helluva lot more than 8 votes).

8 (actually 6 7) downvotes is a lot on a story only had 16 to begin with. Most people judge a story by the ratio of thumbs up to thumbs down; a story with 100 up and 1 down is probably going to be better than a story with 200 up and 300 down. That means that going from 16 thumbs down to 22 23 represents a pretty serious drop in perceived quality.

However, you're still being somewhat petty with this situation. Why are you making a fuss about this only now? What changed? Pulling this move is dickish considering that you allowed Conquer the Stars and that character for two years.

What changed is that Ix started working on the story again after having sat on it for over a year. How many times do I have to say it?

The fix to this is for you and Dalek to have a good talk and make your points clear with each other.

I already tried that. The only point Ix made clear to me was that he didn't give a damn what I had to say or what I thought of how he was using my universe and characters.

1999821

You're threatening to kill a story

"Threatening to kill a story"? Seriously? If saying he's using my character against his wishes qualifies as trying to kill his story to you, I can't help but wonder how you'd react if someone actually tried to kill a story.

Unfollowing due to author dickery.

Good riddance.

1999840 Since it's already been said in this comment thread, yes, this is over Conquer the Stars. Thanks for your support.

2000402

That means that going from 16 thumbs down to 22 represents a pretty serious drop in perceived quality.

So a drop from a ~99.986% approval rating (of those who voted on BaM) to a ~99.979% rating is a serious drop in quality drop? Yes, I did the maths, using the 23 downvotes rather than 22 since one vote means a lot to you. Not to sound like a prick, but get off of your high horse, Starman.

What changed is that Ix started working on the story again after having sat on it for over a year. How many times do I have to say it?

He never once said that he was dropping it. Just because he hasn't worked on it does not mean that he doesn't intend to do so. Unless he specifies otherwise, don't assume that he left it to die.

I already tried that. The only point Ix made clear to me was that he didn't give a damn what I had to say or what I thought of how he was using my universe and characters.

Okay, I was gonna give a 'fair enough' to this bit, but...

And the thing is that I even tried to defend you there, despite the pretty poor choice of words that you used. I mean, 'Since you aren't willing to cooperate, I'm going to have to play hardball.' Fucking really? I'm sorry, but I'm with Dalek on this one. Either you were frustrated and just vented that frustration on Dalek without really thinking about what you were telling him or you are lying in regards of being friendly about the whole mess.

This is getting ridiculous. Please don't let this turn into a repeat of the stunt you tried to pull with the ACB group, I'm begging you.

2000432

So a drop from a ~99.986% approval rating (of those who voted on BaM) to a ~99.979% rating is a serious drop in quality drop? Yes, I did the maths, using the 23 downvotes rather than 22 since one vote means a lot to you. Not to sound like a prick, but get off of your high horse, Starman.

You might want to check your numbers, because your math is off. B&M hasn't broken a 99% approval rate since its infancy.

He never once said that he was dropping it. Just because he hasn't worked on it does not mean that he doesn't intend to do so. Unless he specifies otherwise, don't assume that he left it to die.

Yeah, see, here's the thing. When people thought he wasn't working on the fic, they said I shouldn't raise the issue about something he was neglecting anyway. Nice little catch-22 they've got going on.

Either you were frustrated and just vented that frustration on Dalek without really thinking about what you were telling him or you are lying in regards of being friendly about the whole mess.

I stopped being friendly when I brought my concerns to him and was tersely told to fuck off.

This is getting ridiculous. Please don't let this turn into a repeat of the stunt you tried to pull with the ACB group, I'm begging you.

If I'd wanted to delete the ACB group, I would've deleted the ACB group. All I wanted out of that was to no longer be an admin of the group, which I got.

Comment posted by Starman Ghost deleted Apr 11th, 2014

2000456

You might want to check your numbers, because your math is off. B&M hasn't broken a 99% approval rate since its infancy.

Pre-Dalek Blog (April 1st 2014*):
1081 Likes (L) and 16 Dislikes (D)
D / (L + D) = X -> 100 - X = Approval Rating
16 / 1097 = 0.01458523... -> 100 - 0.0146 = 99.9854

* - The stats graphs is finicky as all hell when trying to get an exact date, and I had a different date with more likes the first time I crunched the numbers. Still, my point stands.

Post Dalek Blog (April 11th 2014):
1090 Likes and 23 Dislikes
23 / 1113 = 0.0206648... -> 100 - 0.0207 = 99.9793

It's been a while since I did this sort of math, so I may be entirely wrong. But this is what I came up with.

Also, to all math buffs out there, I know that I took the long way to find the percentage, but it's still correct, ain't it?

Yeah, see, here's the thing. When people thought he wasn't working on the fic, they said I shouldn't raise the issue about something he was neglecting anyway. Nice little catch-22 they've got going on.

Source? I didn't know you actually had gone through with people about this and nobody mentioned this before.

I stopped being friendly when I brought my concerns to him and was tersely told to fuck off.

"No.

I apologize if I seem rude, or if I offend, but while Conquer the Stars is based on your work and I did appreciate your creative input when you gave it, what I do with it is my own business."
- Dalek Ix

Blunt? Yes. Being a dick? Perhaps, but he wasn't outright telling you to, 'fuck off' as it were. Again, miscommunication galore here.

If I'd wanted to delete the ACB group, I would've deleted the ACB group. All I wanted out of that was to no longer be an admin of the group, which I got.

Heads up, group is getting deleted. Save anything you want to keep.

:trixieshiftright:

You're making this into an issue, mate. Don't, please.

2000402

OK, but what do you want to happen? Do you want him to give a disclaimer like (this character is an interpretation based on alternate circumstances and is by no means representative of a character of similar name - who appears in a story that has been taken down and disowned by the author) or do you want the character taken out of the story or the story taken down entirely?

I still cant understand the problem if you no longer care about Not alone in the first place.

2000012

So basically you're bitching that a story actually took time to set up the characters and situation?

Yeah, whatever.

As for being beholden to the other of a story that another story is based off of? Didn't stop Chat from raping Ten Minutes, which she did not have permission to do a sequel to. She just up and did it. And then as a middle finger to the original, posted a link to it in the comments section of the original story.


2000402

Okay, now we come to you. And we also come to an issue that you keep bringing up that....really isn't an issue at all.

So he took time to update the fic. So what? You think his only focus is on CTS? He has other fics than that, plus real life tends to take its share of a person's time and effort. So yes, he doesn't update a chapter a week or something. Big whoop. That doesn't mean the fic is dead. It's like with any author who has multiple fics up.

Hell, look at The Shadow of Ages. That fic isn't dead either. It's just not my primary focus right now. Doesn't mean I won't be going back to it and updating it when I have the chance. I'm certainly not about to go around rewriting it just for the sake of your interest in the story.

Further, the reason why people got upset with Chat wasn't so much that she wrote the piece of shit that was Aftermath, it was that what she wrote was a piece of shit that rapes the original. The fact that she did so and didn't at least have BronyOfSteel's blessing was just the pus frosting on the shit cake. By comparison, even though neither Dalek nor I needed permission to write sequels to Not Alone both of us at least asked first. And bear in mind, you gave us permission. By comparison to Dalek, I haven't used any OCs from your story. Dalek has. However bear in mind that giving him permission to write the fic also means you effectively granted him use of everything that came with it.

As for ponies who have a talent for acting and who use the internet? Well, many ponies can have acting related talents. As for the internet? It's 300 years on from your story. Clearly the internet is something every pony can and probably does use on the Calvin.

Oh and as for the internet addiction bit? I never got the impression that either Evening Star was addicted to the Internet. But if you're saying yours was? Then that just goes to prove that what I've been saying is true. There is enough drift between your version and his that his is effectively a character inspired by/based on yours without actually being your version. Cause really that would be a big issue. Cause being addicted to the internet (assuming you mean that literally and weren't simply being hyperbolic) is something that is a major issue for that character. We can assume that in the three centuries since, she's managed to break from that addiction, even if only by a certain amount.

So guess what, Starman. If you try to say someone is using a character you made against your express wishes? You'd be lying through your teeth because you never, and I repeat never told anyone they couldn't use any OCs you made when giving people permission to do sequels to Not Alone.

Hell, you pretty much declared it open season anyway when you said 'If there are going to be sequels to Not Alone, I won't be the one writing them'. That was practically Carte Blanche right there. We could have taken that and run with it. Instead, we asked permission. It does, admittedly grant us more legitimacy since we did have your permission. But if we'd really wanted to? Not having permission honestly wouldn't have stopped us because as I said earlier, we don't need permission to write sequels to fanfics any more than we need permission to write fanfics themselves. The difference is that at the time, had you said no, we might have just dropped things there and then simply because we had a certain respect for you since you had created a story that many people loved and were sorry to see go.

At this point though, the problem is that you're bitching about something you really have no right to bitch over since you've already disavowed that story, and by extension its characters, and are simply coming off as petty, because it really is just coming out of nowhere. And the reasons you're giving for doing it is pretty much a blatant lie. So yeah, people are pissed.

I may not agree with how they expressed that they were angry. But I completely understand it and I feel their anger is justified.

2000514

It's been a while since I did this sort of math, so I may be entirely wrong. But this is what I came up with.

16 is more than 1% of 1097; 1% of 1097 is 10.97. 23 is more than 1% of 1113; 1% of 1113 is 11.13. You used a fraction as a percentage.

Blunt? Yes. Being a dick? Perhaps, but he wasn't outright telling you to, 'fuck off' as it were.

He clearly responded in a way that indicated he had no interest in discussing it further. What does that translate to, if not "fuck off"?

Source?

Comments on Ix's blog post. Many of the people reading it didn't know he'd resumed writing it.

You're making this into an issue, mate. Don't, please.

How am I making it an issue when you're the one who brought it up?

2000520

OK, but what do you want to happen? Do you want him to give a disclaimer like (this character is an interpretation based on alternate circumstances and is by no means representative of a character of similar name - who appears in a story that has been taken down and disowned by the author) or do you want the character taken out of the story or the story taken down entirely?

Either one would work for me. As far as I'm concerned, once my OC is zapped, I don't have a stake in it anymore.

2000538

So he took time to update the fic. So what? You think his only focus is on CTS? He has other fics than that, plus real life tends to take its share of a person's time and effort. So yes, he doesn't update a chapter a week or something. Big whoop. That doesn't mean the fic is dead. It's like with any author who has multiple fics up.

People keep bringing up this point, so I'm just going to paste a previous response I gave:

Yeah, see, here's the thing. When people thought he wasn't working on the fic, they said I shouldn't raise the issue about something he was neglecting anyway. Nice little catch-22 they've got going on.

Oh and as for the internet addiction bit? I never got the impression that either Evening Star was addicted to the Internet. But if you're saying yours was? Then that just goes to prove that what I've been saying is true. There is enough drift between your version and his that his is effectively a character inspired by/based on yours without actually being your version. Cause really that would be a big issue. Cause being addicted to the internet (assuming you mean that literally and weren't simply being hyperbolic) is something that is a major issue for that character. We can assume that in the three centuries since, she's managed to break from that addiction, even if only by a certain amount.

If she's just inspired by or based on my version, then why not name her something else? Why does she need to share a name with a character I created at all?

Hint: It's because she's supposed to be the same character.

So guess what, Starman. If you try to say someone is using a character you made against your express wishes? You'd be lying through your teeth because you never, and I repeat never told anyone they couldn't use any OCs you made when giving people permission to do sequels to Not Alone.

Hell, you pretty much declared it open season anyway when you said 'If there are going to be sequels to Not Alone, I won't be the one writing them'. That was practically Carte Blanche right there.

When did I ever claim that I never wanted him to use my character? I didn't. I had a gradual change of mind over the course of a year, but I didn't want to bother him over something he wasn't working on anyway. That bit of consideration is apparently backfiring on me.

At this point though, the problem is that you're bitching about something you really have no right to bitch over since you've already disavowed that story, and by extension its characters, and are simply coming off as petty, because it really is just coming out of nowhere. And the reasons you're giving for doing it is pretty much a blatant lie. So yeah, people are pissed.

I find it really ironic that people think I'm the one "bitching" or "being petty" here. I think that applies far better to the people who are revenge-downvoting a completely unrelated story of mine and acting like threatening ot publicly say "I no longer wish for this character I created to be used, but this person has disregarded me" equates to me trying to take away their precious toys.

2000586

See, again you're doing it wrong.

When you disavowed Not Alone, Starman, you also disavowed everything that was part of it. Including any OCs. Further, you cannot say that you 'changed your mind' about the character years later.

If you want a disclaimer about Evening Star? Probably not the worth the effort now. But if you just wanted credit for her? Again, there's enough drift between the two that his is an expy, something inspired by/based on your version that she's effectively a different version of the character. Look at all the various Dusk Shines that exist, if you need an example of expies. With the exception of mine, every single one of them is based on the version that appears in Cross and Arrow. And most of those tend to only appear in stories where he's either leading an effeminate version of the girls who are genderflipped or else somehow the object of lust from every mare in the story. My Dusk Shine shares only a name in common with those. He is fundamentally different in ways that are slowly unfolding in my stories. But the biggest one being that he's not a genderflipped Twilight. He doesn't even have relatives in common with Twilight. Even those members of the Six who are equivalent to the girls aren't genderflips of them.

If all you wanted was credit for Evening Star (which you say you would have been fine with), then why the hell didn't you just say that? Honestly, the fact that CTS and TSOA are sequels to your work (or partial sequel in the case of TSOA since it's primarily a story that is part of the Shogunverse) already give you a certain amount of credit, and both stories LIST your work (and you by extension) as part of what inspired them.

Seriously, how much more credit for them do you need?

And no. The reason people are upset with you is that you ARE bitching about this. You literally threatened to go around bitching about Evening Star being used in a way you wouldn't have used her. That in itself is a form of bitching. So of course, people are going to see you as being petty and bitchy about it. Cause that's effectively what this is.

Look back at when you tried to delete the entire ACB group just because you wanted out of it. (And then later came back.) Okay so you wanted to leave. But instead of telling us you were having a problem leaving due to being listed as the founder, you just said 'welp, the only way I can leave the group is to delete it. So fuck it. I'm deleting the group cause I wanna leave it and screw the rest of you.'. Did it never occur to you to just ask for some help, whether from one of the other mods or even the site staff to see if there was a way to unhook you from the group founder status so you could leave the group without trying to demolish everything? It's what we ultimately had happen. But not until after you'd set everyone off by doing what you did.

Seriously. It's like you're trying to bring things like this on yourself. If you wanted credit for Evening Star, you should have said so. But don't go threatening to go on a whining campaign about how you don't like how the character is being used because all of a sudden a character you threw away when you threw away Not Alone suddenly matters to you. And I have to agree with Giulio. I don't buy that all of a sudden this matters to you, or that it ever really did. It certainly didn't matter when you threw her and her story away. It didn't when you gave everyone out there Carte Blanche to write sequels or when you specifically gave us your blessing when we actually decided to be respectful and ask for more direct approval. So what's the REAL issue behind why you're suddenly kicking up all this drama?

2000586

Either one would work for me. As far as I'm concerned, once my OC is zapped, I don't have a stake in it anymore.

Well sorry, but that doesn't really wash…

You either - disown Not alone and have no more say in anything to do with it, or anything based on it.

Or

You don't disown it, in which case XL still doesn't really have to do either of those things because Knighty has already set a precedent on the use of other peoples OC’s.

Simply put- he’s already got ‘based on TCB: Not Alone, by Starman Ghost.’ In the description and that’s more then enough.

2000618

When you disavowed Not Alone, Starman, you also disavowed everything that was part of it. Including any OCs. Further, you cannot say that you 'changed your mind' about the character years later.

I'm fairly sure I just did.

But if you just wanted credit for her? Again, there's enough drift between the two that his is an expy, something inspired by/based on your version that she's effectively a different version of the character.

I already addressed this. See my last post.

If all you wanted was credit for Evening Star (which you say you would have been fine with)

I didn't say that. I said that if Ix kept the character in, I expected him to make it clear that she wasn't the same character.

The reason people are upset with you is that you ARE bitching about this. You literally threatened to go around bitching about Evening Star being used in a way you wouldn't have used her. That in itself is a form of bitching. So of course, people are going to see you as being petty and bitchy about it. Cause that's effectively what this is.

If someone uses my characters against my wishes, then I'm going to let people know. They're going to have to learn to deal with the fact that I'm not going to approve of everything done with my ideas and that I won't be meek and submissive in my disapproval.

Seriously, how much more credit for them do you need?

I'm not after credit. I just want people to know that my creation is being used in a way I don't like.

So what's the REAL issue behind why you're suddenly kicking up all this drama?

I brought it up because Ix started writing it again. How many times am I going to have to repeat this?

2000687

Simply put- he’s already got ‘based on TCB: Not Alone, by Starman Ghost.’ In the description and that’s more then enough.

I fali to see how this means I'm not allowed to tell people that he's using a character I created in a way I don't like.

2000721

I'm fairly sure I just did.

Can't have it both ways. Either you disavowed Not Alone, or you didn't. You don't get to say years later 'Oh I did it, but I'm now going to raise a fuss over part of the story I threw away.' You can try to say that, but nobody will take you seriously cause at that point you don't deserve to be.

Simply put, when you disavow a story, you disavow all of it unless you specifically state otherwise at the time of disavowment. You did not. Therefore, you gave up everything.

You can tell people you don't like how the character is being used. You're a reader at that point and you can state your opinion about it all you want. What you can't do is threaten to do something you're obviously going to do anyway. Dalek has the right of it. Conquer the Stars is his story. He can do what he wants with it. He didn't even need to get your permission to do a sequel to Not Alone, nor did he need permission to use your OC. He sought them anyway and you gave it to him. You can't go whining about the way he uses characters in his story later on. Well no, strictly speaking you can bitch about it, but you don't get to try to blackmail him over it. Nobody is saying you have to be 'meek and submissive in your disapproval' as you put it. We are saying that you acted like an ass over this. You don't go complaining that someone should take a character out of their story because you don't like the way that person writes them. (Believe me, it's happened to me before in another fandom.) You suck it up and deal with the fact that it's different. You say your piece, but don't go whining about how the character should be removed from a story you gave your blessing to years ago. I don't care how long ago he took time off from the fic. It's his fic. You have no say in how it's run.

In saying the story is based on your work, the very fact that Evening Star has changed from one story to the next means that it can be very much inferred that this is no longer the exact same character you wrote. And do bear in mind, story wise, there is even an in-universe justification for said changes.

That brings me to this from my last post.

If all you wanted was credit for Evening Star (which you say you would have been fine with)

To which you then said

I didn't say that. I said that if Ix kept the character in, I expected him to make it clear that she wasn't the same character.

Allow me to disagree, and provide proof.

>> More Dakka

OK, but what do you want to happen? Do you want him to give a disclaimer like (this character is an interpretation based on alternate circumstances and is by no means representative of a character of similar name - who appears in a story that has been taken down and disowned by the author) or do you want the character taken out of the story or the story taken down entirely?

Here was your response to that.

Either one would work for me. As far as I'm concerned, once my OC is zapped, I don't have a stake in it anymore.

So yeah, your own reply decries you.

Long story short, dude, you did this all kinds of wrong, people are pissed, and you're acting like everyone you've seemed to go out of your way to annoy and upset are somehow the bad guys for reacting in the way you had to know they would the minute you started kicking up drama over something you have no rights or control over.

You gave up Not Alone. Disavowed it and thus everything that goes along with it. You gave carte blanche for sequels. Only two people took that up, and even then only after we decided to be respectful enough to ask. And this is what happens when someone takes time to focus on something other than a fic based on yours?

Dude, seriously. You're not just doing it wrong. You're doing it stupid.

2000721

I fail to see how this means I'm not allowed to tell people that he's using a character I created in a way I don't like.

i.imgur.com/2udldLE.png

i.imgur.com/X0BbKJq.png

i.imgur.com/rikYIrj.png

If your definition of 'playing hardball' is - Hey everyone, you know that story I wrote but don't really want you to acknowledge that i did? well I don't like some one else s interpretation of a character in it...- then woopty do.

This whole thing wasn't started because you said you didn't like something. it's from you demanding something XL has no real obligation to do then giving what could he interpreted as a threat when he politely declined. All to maintain some 'control' over something you have publicly disowned...

I brought it up because Ix started writing it again. How many times am I going to have to repeat this?

I'm sorry but I still haven got an answer why you even care how he writes a character from a story you have no more interest in even being associated with.

What if there were more than one sequel? Would you demand that all those authors remove their work because you had a change of heart? "I wrote a book a couple years ago,but I don't like it any more. All copies must be burned!" There are many professional authors who look back on their old work with regret, and you know what? They live with it.

You're allowed to change your opinion,but doing so in this way has caused others to change their opinions of you.

ΔΓ

2000586

16 is more than 1% of 1097; 1% of 1097 is 10.97. 23 is more than 1% of 1113; 1% of 1113 is 11.13. You used a fraction as a percentage.

Welp. I fail math forever.

However, revising my work, I can surmise that you had about 98.54% approval rating before Dalek made his blog. Afterwards, that dropped to about 97.93%. It dropped just barely over 0.5%. Are you seriously gonna start fretting over this small of a drop? Sure, it's still an unfair drop but it's an annoyance, not the fic's death sentence.

What does that translate to, if not "fuck off"?

"I'm sorry, but I don't think that you have any say in what I do with my story since you gave me permission two years ago."

How am I making it an issue when you're the one who brought it up?

By going 'Since you aren't willing to cooperate, I'm going to have to play hardball.'

2000999

Amen to that man. Jesus H Christ I'm unimpressed with this whole thing....... :ajbemused:

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