Jul
23rd
2013
Fallout: Equestria Tags · 12:47am Jul 23rd, 2013
Now that Fallout: Equestria is being added to FIMfiction, some readers have suggested that the "sex" tag be removed. The reasons to have it there is that sex is referenced and eluded to in the story. Additionally, there is one scene where the protagonist walks in on a couple engaged in sexual activity. This scene is in no way explicit, however. And those suggesting the tags removal have pointed out that the "sex" tag is for clopfiction and stories with explicit sexual content. I am debating removing the tag and would like your advice.
Thank you. 
Follow-up: Thank you, everyone. Between your advice and Knighty's, I will be removing the "sex" tag unless the story should be re-rated as "teen".
Hm.
The sex tag would probably be suitable, normally, but combined with the mature tag, it DOES make it look like clop.
I myself would keep it just for safe keeping. Despite it not being sexually explicit, it is nonetheless sex. I myself even put the sex tag, even though it is just a make out scene.
I would just leave it in.
It's your decision, but I would probably take it off if there aren't any detailed explicit sexual scenes.
Yeah i don't think the tag is needed. it was not really detailed in anyway at all other then they were having sex really.
I would have to favor keeping it on. There is enough reference to sexual activities and plenty of colorful metaphors. The sex may not fit the mature tag, but it would still fit the teen tag. So I'd keep it.
Drop it like it's hot.
The tag is unnecessary, and it misrepresents your fic.
I don't think the tag was made with that in mind, it just kind of got the reputation stuck onto it. There's plenty of teen-rated stories with the sex tag, simply because it's alluded to, for example. I say leave it as it is.
You were right to include a sex tag. As I recall there are plenty of moments where sex is discussed, as well as that one optional chapter where Littlepip and Homage have sex. I'm not sure if you're including that in the story, but if you do, you definitely need a sex tag. And plus, it's better to be safe than sorry!
It's a tough decision. The story rides along the edge of sex pretty close. All in all, I'd keep it. Just to be safe, and because truthfully the story does get as close as you can get in a fanfiction to clop without actually doing it.
I think it should be left on. Think about the story Green: There are no actual sex scenes in the story, yet it heavily alludes to it numerous times and therefore has the 'Sex' tag. Yet it is rated Teen.
So yes, if the story heavily references sexual activities, I think it would be for the better to leave it on. Some people might not want to read stories that describe even implied sexual intercourse between ponies.
EDIT: Okay... I stand corrected. Alright, so Green doesn't actually have a 'Sex' tag, but it does have "moments of sensuality, foreplay, and sexual themes", as quoted in the description.
In my book though, that's still pretty close. So yeah, keep it on.
I've seen a lot of stories that have a "sex" tag because, while they're teen and don't get explicit, there's still sexually suggestive content.
...but the rules themselves seem to say this isn't necessary, and that it's only needed if there's "sex" in it, without really detailing how it defines this.
So probably not strictly necessary. I think the deciding factor would be whether it's appropriate as a warning. Some find some scenarios involving sex to be far worse than even the most graphic of gore, and would find some of the content, even non-explicit, to be going too far for comfort. At the same time, people see "mature" and "sex" in the list and automatically assume it's clop (Because... well, it usually is, with that pairing), which definitely gives the wrong impression of the content of this story.
Honestly, you might be best off asking one of the staff for clarification, and possibly opinions.
Keep it. FoE sits strongly on the topic of sex. I mean, it's Fallout. I think there's a dozen scenes where it's very clearly made aware that rutting happened.
Though, the sex tag combined with the mature tag does put a rather bad eye on the story for anyone who is unsure of it.
Scratch that, drop it. Sex never actually happens directly in any part of the story, so I think you should be good.
FO:E doesn't have any sex scenes in it, so I say remove it.
There's sexual content in it, so keep it.
The content is there, but it's not a major focus or scene, so I'd say drop it.
It strikes me as a weird situation, because as the others have said, I'd have suggested leaving it on if you'd kept the story rated Teen, but with it rated Mature like it is, it's going to send the wrong message. I'm kind of leaning towards dropping it, but it's a pretty ambiguous situation.
I would say to drop it as it is already rated mature and sex is not the primary focus of the fic.
I'd say leave it. A lot of teen rated fics have the tag because the subject comes up a lot. It's not like the whole fic is clop, so no, there shouldn't be much of a reason to remove the sex tag.
Honestly
in the end it is your choice. However I lean in the favor of keeping it on, if only to be safe.
If this story were rated teen, I'd say leave it, as the sexual content is certainly on a teen rating, or slightly above it. As it is, however, I don't think the story needs it. There's no direct sexual content in here, so I think it would be misleading to tag it as mature-level sex. It'd be like putting the romance tag on here because Littlepip is in love with Homage. It's not the main focus and isn't necessary.
I'm with the better safe than sorry group and that it should be kept.
I vote keep it. Littlepip's swears alone deserve one (XD), and the references and everything else combined (I'd say) put it firmly in the territory of "fics that have sexual content." Alternatively, drop it and put a disclaimer. Alternatively (again), leave it, and put a disclaimer explaining it.
You do already have the A/N in the description.
As I understand it, the tags are meant to inform users of the story's content. If sexual content takes place within the story, the 'sex' tag is appropriate. For example, a story may be rated 'teen' and still contain the 'sex' tag simply because the story contains references and allusions to offscreen sex. The same is true of the 'gore' tag.
To quote the site's F.A.Q.:
The story contains sex, sexual references, sexual themes, allusions to rape, and generally deals with sexual content just short of actively depicting it 'onscreen'. Sex happens, and you reference and allude to sex. I think it would be misleading to not leave the 'sex' tag on the story. The 'mature' tag does not influence the meaning of the 'sex' tag, and is not a replacement for it. 'Mature' indicates the intended audience for the story based on the nature of the content. 'Mature' does not automatically mean graphic depictions of sex.
Even without chapter 20.5, I believe you have quite enough content based on sex to justify the 'sex' tag. I mean, you have a scene where Little Pip tries to masturbate, onscreen. Just because a scene like that doesn't describe every tiny detail, does not mean the sexual act isn't happening. Sex happens in the story, period. There's no getting around that. There shouldn't be any debate about this, honestly.
Also, when in doubt about something like this pertaining to site rules, you would be better served asking one of the site moderators via PM for an official answer, rather than doing an open poll of your followers like this. After all, it's what the mods' say that matters, not what common users think the rules are.
There is content that, while not explicit, per se, is definitely sexual. I'd keep it, and put a note in the description saying all sexual content is kept non-explicit.
1228925 The mature and sex tags are mutually exclusive. 'Mature' is not describing the nature of the sexual acts depicted, it is describing the overall rating of the content within the story. The fic earns the mature tag well enough for the useage of gore and graphic violence. That is also depicts sexual acts and themes in a non-explicit way does not change the rating to 'teen'.
While not explicit, sex is one of the story's themes. Additionally, there is that one bit in C15 where Pip... enjoys Rarity's statuette. The sex tag isn't just for clopfiction. If you deal with the theme in a way that isn't exactly kid-friendly, that's what the tag is there for.
I say keep it.
1228991
I know it wouldn't change it to teen. I meant that if the rest of the story were to be knocked down to a teen rating, I could see sex as a tag for it. But now that I think about it, you're right. It wouldn't fit there either for sheer lack of sexual content.
As for them being mutually exclusive, I always associated them, if only because a story has to be either teen or mature in order to have sex/gore tags at all. So they always seemed connected to me
I believe the tag should stay. While most of the scenes have it mostly just alluded to, it still deals with the subject. This will also let first time readers know the story is of mature nature. I think that even if its alluded to, readers should be given a heads up. It doesn't have to be explicit to have the sex tag.
From the FAQ:
(Clearly the FAQ needs some edits in some areas)
Usage of the sex tag varies from user to user. Some stories reference sex or use sexual humor, but do not show it explicitly and still use the sex tag, but there are also those that don't.
I know that a lot of longer mature rated stories have a note in the description saying something like
"Rated [Mature/Sex/Gore/Combination] for [reasons]."
I'd leave the tag, but have a note like the above in the description that also states there is no explicit sex.
She of the Colorful Vulgarities would require to leave the Sex tag on, with that silver tongue of hers.
Depends on the 20.5 chapter, I suppose. If that's being included, then yes, the sex tag has to stay.
On the other hand, this is a somewhat academic discussion. The 'Mature' tag is what limits people from seeing the story, and in the case of FO:E, the mature tag is more than warranted simply due to the amount of violence and gore. The sex is just window dressing, if you will.
On the other (third?) hand, I can't emphasize enough how excited I am to see this finally come to Fimfic. Squee!
1229007 The site F.A.Q. clearly describes the three rating tags (everyone, teen, and mature) as being separate from the gore and sex tags. The usage of gore and sex are restricted to teen and mature stories, but are only indicators of content that is present. A story may be marked 'mature' for use of excessive violence, but not contain the gore tag because the depictions, while violent, are not described in gory detail. Likewise, a story may be mature for dealing with adult-rated subject matter, and have the sex tag, even though the sex within the story is not shown in detail (such as how FO:E does things.)
That the mature tag is require for explicit depictions of sex and gore, does not mean that any gore and sex in a mature story have to be explicit in detail in order for the sex and gore tags to be used.
And of course, let us not forget the several times where sexual acts are mentioned, but simply not shown in explicit detail within FO:E. When Pip walks in on Velvet and Calamity having sex, the scene is quite clear as to what is happening. When Pip is ill and tries to masturbate in order to feel better, there are no explicit details, but she's still clearly stimulating herself onscreen. I also recall a scene where two raiders are having sex; again, no explicit details, but it's pretty damn obvious what's going on.
There exist plenty of non-explicit descriptions of sex in the story to warrant the sex tag. Nevermind Pip's constant sexual fantasies and the jokes about her orgams.
1229046
Hmm hmm. On the other hand, there are no graphic descriptions of sex in the story, and it's not a focus of the story. Mutually exclusive or no, I think the mature tag should allow for some leeway here. Few who read it will be offended by the non-graphic sex scenes, and I think it'll be buried in the gore anyways. Either way, it's not a focus and shouldn't really be necessary as a tag (especially since it gives the impression of this being a clopfic).
My big story Blue Angel has the Sex tag on it for good reason: nothing explicit occurs, but there's A LOT of dirty humor and behind-the-scenes stuff going on that's OBVIOUSLY sexual in nature (ie, noises, things breaking, etc). I've only got it on there just in case as well, but as said, it's mainly for the references, not necessarily explicit content...unless you count wingies as explicit
I say: keep it if need be, but have an explanation that the Mature Tag and the Sex tag don't coincide with one another (ie, the Mature tag is for gore/what-have-you, not the sex). Then again, at this point in time, folks should be aware of what this story is about and if they're reading it and expecting clop...well, I dunno what to say about that
The gore tag is for explicit descriptions of grotesque imagery. It is not for kicking and punching or references to surgery.
The sex tag is for explicit descriptions of sexual intercourse. It is not for hugging and kissing or references to masturbation.
Another way to look at this situation is to consider the purpose behind these tags. Are they supposed to be present whenever a fic mentions blood or bone or innuendo? Of course not. Their purpose is to warn readers who dislike explicit gore and sex. Adding the sex tag to FO:E will only scare people away.
1228991
I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
On one side of the argument, there IS allusion to sex in quite a few chapters. On the other, it already has the mature tag, which should already outline that there is gore, violence, sex, etc. alluded to in the story.
I think it's redundant, but then again I think the "Alternate Universe" tag is redundant considering this site is all fan fiction.
Is Chapter 20.5 going to be uploaded? If so, then keep the sex tag. If not, then you might want to keep it anyways due to the amount of non-explicit sexual content. Think of it like a rated PG-13 film filled with sex jokes and references to sex going on, just off camera. It deserves to have a warning of sex. This is the same way.
My own story is similar to a lot of side fics, while no real sex scenes appear within it, they are hinted at, as well as crude humor and dirty jokes. I mean, come on, it's the friggin' end of the word people! Dirty jokes are like standard survival gear for these folks!
However, jokes, crude humor and hinting at sex is in a LOT of fanfictions on this site, from FoE to slice of life to what have you. Few of them have the sex tag.
I believe the mature tag (even tho its there for the gore) should be good enough warning for folks.
I'd say drop it. Drop it like it owes you caps!!
1229062 A story being mature-rated doesn't mean that references to sex suddenly disappear. Whether someone is 'offended' or not also does not mean the sexual content isn't there. Anyone can be 'offended' by anything they want, so that isn't even a valid metric to judge things by. Again, the tags are do not require, or imply each other. Just because you, or anyone else that isn't a mod, don't agree with that does not change that fact.
There's no point in having a tag for a specific type of content (sex) if you just ignore using it, even when it is appropriate. The tag system is in place to describe the content of a story, not to quantify how 'offensive' it is. Unless the sex and gore tags become tiered (light, medium, heavy, or some such) they will continue to be a blanket that should cover any relevant content.
Even ignoring everything else, I don't see how you can tell me that a character being depicted masturbating doesn't warrant the sex tag. Remember, the tags are there so users can filter the content they peruse on the site. There is sex in this story, you really can't argue that.
1229087 A story can be tagged 'sex' and 'teen'. The 'mature' tag does not require the 'sex' tag, nor does the 'sex' tag require the 'mature' tag.
Also, masturbation is, believe it or not, a sexual act. Excluding it from the blanket of the 'sex' tag is just silly.
If all you have to contribute is a minor nitpick about word choice, then I believe we are done conversing.
1229091 The mature tag does not, by default, cover gory or sexual content. That is why the tags are separated and can be added individually.
1229110
Then what does the mature tag cover? Language, maybe violence? I suppose you could add drugs and alcohol.
What are the first things you think of when you find an M or higher rated game, or R or higher movie?
Sex, violence, gore and/or language, in my mind.
I suppose I could also look at it the same way they do movie/game ratings, where it says the rating and then the reasons why. I just find it redundant, self-repeating and almost unnecessary.
I've always considered the Sex and Gore tags to be for stories where that is the focus. If the gore or sex is the point of the story, that is what the tags are for. If it exists in it, but isn't the focus, then Mature is the correct tag.
I personally don't think they are needed.
1229119 Quoting the F.A.Q.:
The simple fact that a 'teen' rated story can include the sex tag for allusions to offscreen sex, is a good indication that any amount of sex in a story can garner the use of the sex tag. The tags (mature and sex) do not preclude, or require each other. That they can be used together is not the issue being discussed.
1229110
Easy, dude. This is just my opinion. Like you said, I'm not a mod or anything. But then, you aren't either, so let's just have a friendly opinion-based discussion on the use of the sex tag, eh?
As you said, the tags are there to describe the content of a story. I see what you mean by there being enough sex in the story to merit the use of the sex tag. However, following that logic, I also see plenty enough romance in the story to merit the use of the romance tag, or maybe enough sadness to merit the sad tag. I think tags should be used to describe the story itself, not what it includes. After all, I would never call Fo:E a comedy, but yet...
I think you should drop it. Sex really isn't a major part of the series, so as long as you keep the Mature tag, I think everyone going in will have a rough idea of what to expect content wise
1229136 Sorry if I came off as rude or aggressive. I tend to be quite terse during arguments and discussions.
The story tags ( adventure, romance, slice of life, etc) on this site are, sadly, much less clear cut and their usage is hazily defined in the F.A.Q. (more so than most things there).
Having seen very few of the mods speak up about the 'story' tags, I tend to adhere to what WandererD has stated on the matter. That being that the story tags should indicate the main purpose and themes of the story. A story can have romance, and not be a romance story. A story can be sad without that being it's entire purpose. FO:E is, at it's core, and adventure story, a crossover, and takes place in a very dark setting while dealing with many dark, mature themes. It also includes liberal use of violence, gore, and sexual themes, including clearly informing the reader of the occurrence of sexual acts 'offscreen' and depicting a non-explicit scene involving masturbation.
As for the comedy thing, that's called comedy relief. You'd be hard pressed to find a serious, or dark story without any jokes at all. They help break up the tension and allow the reader's emotions to recover. Again, comedy is present, but it is not the purpose of the story. Besides, the Fallout games are quite well-known for their dark humor and numerous little jokes. Hard to do a Fallout crossover without some humor in there and still make it feel right.
1229135
I just find the necessity of redundancy silly, but then again as I stated earlier, I also find fictions that use the "Alternate Universe" tag to be redundant.
And I also said that, while I find redundancy unnecessary, you will always find one person who thinks the two aren't mutual, or the one story where the two actually aren't mutual.
1229175 It all boils down to a disagreement on what each items is describing. The mods have done a rather poor job at providing a crystal clear definition for the site's tags, so discussion like this are bound to crop up.
The Alternate Universe tag, I feel, is simply poorly named. It seems to be intended for stories that differ so far from cannon that the two cannot be reconciled. For instance, a story that blatantly ignores certain facets of cannon, such as one that removes the changelings from existence would fall under the AU tag, whereas the average X falls in love with Y ship fic usually has such minor differences to cannon, that it's at least "plausible" enough to not be a "totally different universe". Not that I really have any clue what AU could be renamed to, but I do agree that it's current name is a very poor description of what it should be used for (whatever the heck the mods intended it to be used for...).
1229168
No worries
Yes, and again, I would agree with using those kind of things to justify a sex tag were this a teen-rated story. I know, there's no real connection between the two groups, but the teen-sex combination does offer a lighter connotation than the mature-sex combination. You would never expect any kind of graphic description in a teen story - just some mention of the subject - whereas in a mature story, you go in expecting it. I think Fo:E is above that teen-sex line, but not quite as high as the mature-sex line.
The masturbation scene is the kicker, though. It could be easily categorized as mature-sex - I've seen a few clopfics or other erotica that only go into that level of detail throughout. I still say it doesn't deserve the tag, though, because the quality of Fo:E is well above that of those fics, and because it's not trying to be cloppy - it just happens to include a sex scene, toned down seemingly so as to avoid having to be given a sex tag.
1229219 Sorry, but I just don't agree with that. It shouldn't matter what the rating is in regards to when the sex tag is applied. For the tag to mean anything, it's usage must be consistent (something this site has issues with). The tag should quite simply indicate that sex or sexual content is in the story. Just because every clopfic uses the sex tag doesn't mean it only applies to clop. Yes, FO:E is not trying to be cloppy and, outside 20.5, it is decidedly not a story intended to induce sexual arousement in the readers.
If the tag was labeled "clop", I wouldn't argue with you. If we had more than one level of sex tag, we'd be having a different discussion. But, as it stands, the tag really does need to be on the story.