Online Abuse On Fimfiction, part one of four. · 1:59am May 26th, 2013
I have returned to acquire the text of my unpublished, seventh chapter of ‘I.D. - That Indestructible Something’. While I am briefly here, I might as well make a statement. Here then is the beginning of a four- part blog series regarding the events of my leaving, and the problems inherent to Fimfiction itself.
Online Abuse
How to understand it - Why it happens - How to deal with it
By Chatoyance
Welcome to Fimfiction. You will be bullied and harassed.
The fault is not yours, you are not to blame, neither do you deserve it. You may be bullied in small ways, with insults or having your comments obliterated by downvotes. You may be privately messaged vile things and you well may have lies and slanders repeated against you. Your attackers will try to make you feel small, make you feel that you are at fault, or that you have no right to create, or to even live.
How can this even happen?
The reason it can happen is because the website, Fimfiction itself, allows it to happen. Evil, real evil, is an institutional matter. It can only exist when it is permitted to exist. For evil to occur, all it takes is those in power turning a blind eye and ignoring things. What allows you to be attacked is the management and programming of Fimfiction itself.
The first, and most obvious problem is posting anonymity. Complete anonymity inevitably leads to some degree of bullying and harassment. Websites that require valid personal identification when creating accounts on them have vastly fewer incidents of abuse, and should abuse occur, the perpetrators are more easily dealt with either by the website management, or by legal authorities. Anonymity breeds contempt of others by creating a feeling of total freedom from responsibility. Simply knowing that the website owner has true knowledge of user identity can stop a great deal of abuse. This is a major reason why professionally run forums, such as those run by corporate entities, always demand personal identification on signup.
There are many ways an online environment can either prevent, or promote bullying and harassment. Every tool and gadget will be used for harm by evil people, if it can be, and the social tone of an environment is determined by what is possible within that environment. One particularly egregious example of this can be found in nothing more than the ‘thumbs up/ thumbs down’ voting system. It is by design intrinsically contentious - it pits people against each other.
The creator of Fimfiction, Graeme Pollard (Knighty), has chosen to create an environment where it is possible to downvote comments into invisibility. This means that voting can be used as a weapon, one with no defense against it. The same downvote can be used to make your story socially unacceptable, to silence and censor you. There is no way to block this attack and there is no recourse. The moderators will not help you, Knighty will not help you. This is just one way the website itself socially programs for contention and emotional violence.
Your power to block and delete the written attacks of those who would hurt you is limited and often faulty. Strangely, it is implemented in such a way as to make your deletions - when they work - leave traces, which in a social context makes you look bad for protecting yourself.
If you form a group on Fimfiction, to create a safe space, your own block list will not keep out those who want to harass you. You will have to individually block your attackers all over again, while they harass you for it. You may find it impossible to delete their posts. You may need to close your group entirely, and only admit people one-by-one, vastly limiting who will choose to bother to join. And even with this tactic, your own comments and posts, within your own private group, can be downvote-bombed into oblivion with no recourse, and no hope of help.
Worst of all, the administrator and owner do not follow through when problems arise. Through inattention, thoughtless programming choices and indifference to online harassment, Fimfiction itself supports bullying.
Thus, when bullies harass you here, it is not your fault, you are not to blame. The fault lies with the institution, the fault lies with the programmer, Graeme Pollard, and the moderators who serve him. Bullies will always take advantage of the tools and circumstances available to them, and abuse the system as it exists. It is up to the site creator to prevent such abuses rigorously through programming choices based on understanding of the reality of online harassment.
This is how to understand what is happening to you. You are being bullied because harassment is intrinsically allowed to occur, when it could easily be made virtually impossible. You could be given strong tools to protect your space. To delete cleanly. The existence of easily abused downvotes could be eliminated. The owner and moderators could take the issue of harassment seriously and end it through site programming and strong, proactive action.
Fimfiction is about pony fiction. The ideal is ‘love and tolerance’. The line you are given is that harassment will not be tolerated. These are illusions.
You are bullied because the institution itself physically, programmatically, permits your harassment to occur, and because the owner and moderators do not consider the issue worth real, firm action.
Understanding this, you can easily grasp how abuse can happen here.
Why you?
Your attackers will have many reasons to justify their abusive behavior. All of these reasons will revolve around you, what you write, what you think, what you are. In every case, it is all lies.
Bullies and abusers are broken human beings. No decent, sane, good person would ever wish to harass another person. The attacks against you have nothing to do with you. If the cause truly was your writing or words, those harassing you could chose to go read something, anything else. There are thousands of authors and stories on Fimfiction to choose from. The bullies lie. It is not your words, or your stories, or your ideas, or your self that is the reason you are being attacked.
The reason you are being attacked is because those harassing you are dysfunctional. It could be that they are too emotionally immature - regardless of their physical age - to grasp that they are doing something wrong. They could have had very inept parents who failed to teach them civil behavior. They could have endured parents who abused them, and they learned abuse as a way of life. They could be incapable of genuine compassion for others.
Most commonly, those who harass and abuse others are powerless people who feel weak and powerless in their own existence. They are desperate for even the most petty and small sensation of power in their empty lives, and bully strangers in order to feel less weak and pathetic to themselves. By silencing, hurting, and minimizing you, they feel dominant for a moment. That brief victory is likely the only thing going for them. It may be all they have.
‘You’ are not important to them. Though it may feel like it, you have not been personally singled out - however much your abusers may make it seem so. Statistically, most online abusers have attacked others before you, and will harass still more people after you. You are just another target in a long line of targets. But to get to you, to induce maximum hurt, abusers will make you feel singularly targeted, uniquely attacked, and personally the focus in every way.
The reason you are being attacked specifically is that you were there. It could have been anyone. You were chosen and reasons were invented to justify that choice. Your abusers will make those reasons into an almost religious cause, so that they feel righteous and just in attacking you.
But no sane, decent, good person ever harasses or bullies or attacks another. Knowing this, you can now understand why abuse happens - those who harass and abuse are broken, malfunctioning people. There is something wrong with them, and they are acting out in ways that are socially inappropriate and ultimately cruel and wrong. It has nothing to do with you, rather abuse and bullying is about mental or emotional illness - of one kind or another - causing destructive and uncivil behavior to random others.
What can be done?
The most obvious and direct answer to online harassment and abuse is for the owners and operators of a social website to make harassment virtually impossible by programming the site to prevent it, and then following up with a strong, proactive effort to police the environment.
In the absence of decent institutional control and response to harassment, there is only you. You must protect yourself, as best as you can, using all available means.
Those tools that work, or marginally work - such as blocking, deleting, and locking - should be used consistently. It is always advised that you remain as anonymous as possible, just like those who would attack you.
The fact is that this is sometimes not possible.
Those who abuse and harass are by nature destructive and uncreative. In being attacked on Fimfiction, it will be because you dared to be creative, to write stories and produce content for the site. Most of those who attack you will never have written a story themselves, and the few that do will likely create few works, and often those works will be parodies or insult stories devoid of real imagination.
Those who harass become good at spotting their victims work, style, and content. You may be discovered even if you try to hide, because you are creating works as opposed to mocking works, and trying to entertain rather than hunting people in order to cause suffering.
What this means is that you may have few protections, and no way to truly hide. Nowhere to run, and few means to defend yourself. You may find that truly desperate, twisted bullies will not leave you alone even if you follow all the rules of how to deal with bullies. Hiding may be impossible. Ignoring your attackers may fail, asking them to stop may fail, and appealing to authority may be utterly pointless.
In this circumstance, currently common to Fimfiction, there is one remaining tool left.
You need to understand, clearly, robustly, deeply that anything that your attackers have to say is utterly beneath you.
This may seem hard. As a creative person who is not a bully, you may want to see the best in others. You may feel that the opinions of every person should have merit, that if many people come down on you they must have a point, because they are many, and you are alone. Creative people often have such egalitarian, kind, and generous views. It is likely you have such views, or want to have such views, because of the nature of Fimfiction - it is a website about My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and the reason you are here is because you love the ideal of a world of friendship and kindness.
Such things are indeed good ideals. They are wonderful ideals. But in the real world, in a world that is not a cartoon, the fact is that there are broken, damaged people who thrive on hurting others. People who derive joy and feelings of importance and power and even self-worth from knowing they have destroyed or harmed an innocent stranger. People who will justify their cruelty by any means they can, and deny their own evil especially to themselves. This is real, this is the real world. The people who harass you, bully you, are such people.
No sane, kind, or good person ever harasses or bullies another person.
You must, despite yourself, despite your wish to see the best in others, despite your ideals, accept that the world is not a nice place. There are nice people, to be sure, but there are many more who are indifferent to evil, or who openly engage in it. This is why you are being attacked. It is obvious, really.
Knowing this, it is imperative that you recognize that no person has the right to any opinion about anything unless they are truly worth your respect and trust.
Understand that. You must grasp this, right down to your gut.
No person has any right to any opinion, unless they are truly worth your respect and trust.
The majority of the people on this website? You do not know them. You have no basis to trust them. They are anonymous, they hide themselves like cowards. Some bullies may seem friendly at first, to gain your trust. Trust takes time and is hard won - do not give it lightly or easily. The only judge of character is behavior over time. A lot of time.
You are in your right, and your right mind, to instantly dismiss the opinions, observations and attitudes of the majority of people you will ever meet or deal with. This is doubly true online.
Before you grant any voice your ear, ask yourself: who is this person? What have they truly done, in a real way, to demonstrate supportive friendship to me? Is that supportive friendship solid - have they never betrayed me? Unless you can state to yourself that someone posting a comment is worth your respect and trust, INSTANTLY DISMISS WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO SAY.
Your feelings, your creativity, your peace of mind is worth something. Dismiss, ignore, throw away any random comment that is negative, uncivil, rude, or just feels wrong. It just plain is not worth your time. Accept this. Know this. Live by it.
For it is your armor.
The anonymity of the internet, combined with the indifference of institutions to abuse and harassment automatically make an environment contentious and dangerous to your happiness and peace. It doesn’t have to be this way, but it currently is this way on Fimfiction. Know this fact. Use your armor.
If a seemingly friendly commenter begins to turn rude and abusive - you have been had. Accept that. Let them go - delete, block, ignore. They are not worth your time.
If a group of posters dig into you and your work, attacking you while claiming they are trying to teach you, or improve your work, or that it is just honest criticism - they are lying. They are bullies.
Violence - including emotional violence - only teaches violence.
Real criticism is kindly said, and real teaching is gently given.
If a comment feels abusive - it is abusive. Your emotions are the judge, the only judge. A kind person will find a kind way to say something. Knowing this, you can discern who is worth listening to, and who is to be utterly ignored.
Treat everyone politely, but don’t let them into your mind or heart until they prove they are your friend.
But it still hurts!
I thought just this, and to an extent I still feel it. Verbal and written harassment is processed by the same part of the brain that processes physical pain. Chronic attack can cause damage that can be seen during imaging of the brain. Insults and abuse, contrary to common belief can truly damage people. On the internet, showing that you have been hurt is itself insulted. A bully will use anything and everything to dismiss you and imply that your pain is your fault. This is sociopathic behavior. It is just about as wrong as it is possible to be.
That said, there is a degree by which we are to blame for some of our own suffering, and that is when we fail to protect ourselves because of innocence, ignorance, or the willful desire to see the best in others. This is an error.
When I was attacked on Fimfiction, I was very hurt, and I was insulted for even being hurt. This is of course wrong, but even so, the bullies did have a very thin, very specious, but true point - I was not using my armor. The only reason the comments and attacks and abuse of others could hurt me at all was because I was generously granting those that abused me equal status. I considered them my equals. I thought of them as worthwhile people.
And they absolutely were not worthwhile people, and they absolutely did not deserve for me to consider them my equal, and they absolutely were beneath me in every regard. If I had truly understood this, I could not have been hurt by them.
No sane, kind, decent person ever abuses another person.
If you are being abused and harassed and bullied, whoever is doing it automatically is beneath you, utterly less than you, and not worthy of any consideration whatsoever. You need to learn to dismiss them and ignore them the instant you recognize such people. Ban them. Block them. Delete them. Ignore them. It is your right, and it is the proper thing to do.
You are the creative person. All an abuser can do is abuse. They are worthless.
If management was doing its job, you would be protected from such people, and have tools for the few that slip through.
You may want to believe the best about everyone. That is what those who would hurt you depend upon. If you want to not be hurt, you must be very choosy with your trust and respect, and you must only bother with the opinions of those who have earned your trust.
Everyone else - the whole of humanity - is not worth your least consideration until they prove to you, concretely, over time, otherwise.
The moment you can internalize this, really feel this, you will have an intelligent, real, and true armor to protect your feelings. This is your ultimate defence. This is sometimes your only defence. Always remember:
No sane, kind, or good person ever harasses or bullies another person.
If you are being ganged up on - that is abuse. If you or your work is angrily attacked - that is abuse. If you receive death threats or threats of physical harm - that is absolutely abuse.
Real criticism is kindly. Real teaching is kindly. Real comments will make you feel like writing is worth the effort. If the comment you read isn’t kind, it isn’t worth reading, because it didn’t come from anyone worth your time to listen to.
Do not be complicit in your own hurt. Use your armor. Ignore, delete, dismiss.
If you’ve already been hurt -
If you’ve already been hurt by bullying, by harassment, by those beneath you, then you are probably feeling pretty bad. You may be depressed, grief stricken, angry, and feel both helpless and hopeless.
Understand that these feelings are legitimate. Emotional abuse hurts, and is a serious matter. It is processed in the brain by the same region that processes physical pain. It is equivalent to physical harm, as far as your biochemistry is concerned. Society often dismisses and minimizes emotional abuse, but this is a foolish, outdated belief not supported by medicine.
You are not at fault. You have been attacked, harmed, by sick, broken people. It is reasonable to feel hurt and angry. On the internet, your attackers are almost certainly practiced at being anonymous, and the fact of being anonymous gives cowardly people the security to hurt others. It is reasonable to feel helpless and frustrated - those that hurt you are beyond your reach, and beyond punishment. It is also reasonable to feel angry that such abuse was even allowed to happen. Much abuse can be prevented by proper website design, as mentioned.
But here you are, hurting. What now?
Time. Time and comfort and distance from the source of the pain. You need time to heal and to gain perspective. You need to get your brain to decide that everything is OK again, so that you will feel better, and the way to do that is to make your experiences OK. Your environment OK. If your senses report things are safe and alright long enough, your brain will calm down, and your depression and helpless anger will lift. Counseling may help, talking to friends - real friends you rationally trust - will help.
Understanding and internalizing the above can help.
If nothing works, then find something else to do, and leave Fimfiction behind.
If you can’t do that, take time to heal up. When you return, apply what is provided here diligently. Avoid the mistake of granting anyone the privilege of having anything to say to you until they earn it by proper behavior over time. People do not deserve your attention or respect unless they earn it.
Treat everyone politely, but don’t let them into your mind or heart until they prove they are your friend.
And always remember: no sane, kind, or good person ever harasses or bullies another person. The moment you detect abuse of any kind - dismiss, delete, and ignore.
Because you, being a creative person, are worth more than that.
NEXT TIME:
My Letter to Graeme Pollard (Knighty), the creator and owner of Fimfiction.net
Greetings Chatoyance, It is good to see you although i see it could be under better circumstances tell me what with the hate all of a sudden?
It's good to see you back, Chat, if only for a final farewell. You have been greatly missed, my dear friend.
Just let it go, Chat... You've carried this long enough. It was bad times, but you don't have to relive it.
1104776
Chat has been on the receiving end of a great deal of abuse by an apparently dedicated collection of stalkers. This post isn't entirely unjustified or entirely all that sudden. Though it is a little surprising after the last couple months of silence.
Chatoyance: I hope that your retrieval of the text to ID means that you intend to continue working on it, even if you post it someplace other than FiMFiction.
*sighs* I've run through about ten long-winded, thought out things that I'd say if I got the chance... and now that the chance is here, all I can is I'm sorry. For everything.
1104806
Be that as it may this is easily one of the most Misanthropic, Nihilistic things I've ever read. Its sad I really was missing her too, and all i can say is I disagree with it 100%.
Tell me Chatoyance you don't really believe this do you?
Chatoyance,
You're a great author. Online bullying is a real problem.
But it's not Knighty's fault.
I'm sorry. That's an objective statement from someone who isn't invested in this matter and has no interest in any particular side.
The fact is, there's no feasible way to eliminate online bullying through programming changes. Bullying is a social phenomenon and it has a social solution. It's also a fact that Knighty can't dedicate an army of staff for an unpaid, volunteer website to police our interactions.
I'm going to finish by saying something cruel here:
Reactions like this blog post feed the trolls. Drama -- especially drama they cause -- feeds the trolls.
I hope you find happiness with whatever you do in life. I'm sorry things ended this way here.
Chat, while I can sympathise, having been bullied during my childhood, you seem to be missing an important thing here.
This is a social site. That means that you are gonna find every single social problem that exists in the real world. Unlike the real world, though, it is next to impossible to stop it. Nothing the mods can do, short of IP-blocking people, will prevent those ass-hats from being ass-hats. They have decided on a purpose for themselves, and they are determined to bring their bullshit, no matter how Freudian-ly justified it may be, here.
And like 1104828 said, they are fishing for any sort of reaction. You just gave them one, a really big one at that, and three more to come.
I don't want to come across as callous, or mean, or cold-hearted. But you (as well as all of us, really) need to grow a damn thick skin. I know it's not easy, I was a prone to breaking down a lot even when I was 13, but it's pretty much the only way. And maybe sling the abuse back, but that just brings up a whole different moral dilemma.
I see people here didn't like my opinion oh well.
But know this Chatoyance I am still willing to help you and you do have my sympathies, and I will leave it at that since I know you would hate what else I would have to say even though I would only say it because I still care I do not know if you are reading this Chatoyance but if you want to talk my door is always open.
Because I haven't much in the way of words to describe my sympathy, I will instead begin with a quote from Frederick Nietzsche:
"If we affirm one moment, we thus affirm not only ourselves but all existence. For nothing is self-sufficient, neither in us ourselves nor in things; and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event—and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed."
While Cynicism is always an important thing to keep by your side, and the world can indeed be a fickle and often cruel place...
Does that really mean that we shouldn't at least try to live up to the highest standards we can? Even if we are as mayflies, locked in cages in a place where life can end as quickly as it can begin, does that mean that life itself is meaningless? And if it is, is that any reason we can't try to be excellent to one another, in spite of it all?
I would love to provide my own lengthy, Patrick Stewart speech, but I think Stephen Colbert puts it quite nicely, as well:
"Don’t be afraid to be a fool. Remember, you cannot be both young and wise. Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don’t learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us. Cynics always say no. But saying yes begins things. Saying yes is how things grow. Saying yes leads to knowledge. "Yes" is for young people. So for as long as you have the strength to, say yes.."
It is good to here from you again. I have had a problem with another on a different site about my work. He is a creative person and while at first I thought it might end badly between us another member of the site stepped in and we worked out a compromise that I had to admit made my story better.
1104828
TED talks - Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil
Evil as the product of an institution, by someone very famous and important, who knows.
Online bullying can indeed be dramatically reduced by simple programmatic designs, as I will go into in more detail in parts two, and three of this blog.
It is indeed partly Knighty's fault, because Knighty is both the authority figure, and as programmer and site owner, his choices and responses dictate the social environment.
I know how powerful this is because I ran my own forums for years, and I successfully ended harassment on them using such techniques.
1104883
Well said my Dear student twice you have made me proud this week. You deserve a reward tell me what would you ask of me?
1104910
I think you're giving these people too much credit by calling them evil, Chat. They're not evil, they're just assholes.
We're kind of debasing the term 'evil' when we apply it to downvoting comments on an MLP fanfic website. That's evil? Come on.
Likewise, using the term "cout d'etat" to describe drama in a fimfic group. That's so overboard it's silly.
Call it cruel, call it stupid, call it worthless, call it scummy. But don't call it evil.
1104828 1104910
I strongly recommend Zimbardo's book The Lucifer Effect, which covers the topic in detail.
We can certainly hold Knighty somewhat responsible, in the same sense as one would hold a principal of a school responsible for incidents of bullying at that school. Yes the teachers/mods are more directly involved. Yes, the students/posters are personally responsible for their own actions. But the principal/admin is running the show, setting the example, and writing the rules. You can be sure that the principal will be held responsible for any incidents of a student being forced out of a school by bullies, even if it is some sort of voluntary, no-cost private school.
Even the occasional reminder of "hey guys, can we please act like adults and cut the crap?" would be appreciated. Most socially-oriented sites I've been a member of will do that when things get raucous, assuming there isn't a blanket rule of "there are no rules" in place. Public banning for blatant assholery (with automatic bans of backup accounts) also seems to help.
Thank you for coming back, you are missed and I hope things are better for you.
Chatoyance,
What I'm about to say in NO way whatsoever excuses the actions of those who abused you but if you ever want to end this you need to stop showing that you've been hurt. Whether you do this through leaving the community altogether or by ignoring the bullies, you need to stop reacting. This may sound horribly cruel but 1104828 is right.
In this forum they cannot truly silence you and they can only minimize you to an extent. Their real power is the ability to hurt you. By reacting to their immaturity, you grant them that brief moment of victory which only spurs them to try again. If they stab it once and it bleeds they know where they can hurt you and have found a way to satiate their twisted desires. Thanks to the miracle of conditioning if the found this pleasurable once, why not try again? The only power you have in this situation is to deny them a reaction and eventually like the immature children they are the bullies will get bored and move on to other more interesting targets. I'm not saying that you can't be or feel hurt by cruel comments, but online at least, you can deny the assholes a reaction simply by doing nothing.
I think that your comments to Knighty are somewhat unfair and worse than that the argument that the system is responsible for the abuse at least partially absolves the individuals who committed the actions. Knighty uses his free time to run a free website from which I doubt he derives a great deal of personal gain and is often criticised for attempting to improve. While I would certainly agree that Knighty occasionally acts in an immature manner, as far as I'm concerned that is his right to act as he sees fit and despite this I have never seen any blatant abuses of power on his behalf. While there are undoubtedly methods and systems that could make bullying and harassment more difficult, I have yet to see a system that successfully prevents this type of behaviour without sacrificing something else.
I think it is important to note that bullying and harassment still occur even within the workplace where the fact that everybody's identity is known does not seem to prevent these issues. I would be deeply uncomfortable with my real identity being entrusted to anyone on Fimfiction. Even if Knighty was completely trustworthy, security breaches still happen and I for one do not want to have to explain to a potential or current employer why I like a cartoon show ostensibly targeted at little girls about pastel ponies or why I have favourited and reviewed something like Romance Reports. That infringes on the privacy I believe I am entitled to. It is unfortunate that some people abuse their anonymity but there are always people who abuse their rights and unfortunately it's frequently almost impossible to deal with them other than denying everyone the same right.
The only way to stop any abuse of a review system is to remove it entirely which makes it much more difficult to find the good stories in a mountain of mediocrity. Likewise with the comment system. As for showing the deleted posts, personally I feel that it helps especially when trying to make sense of what other people are talking about. The up and downvotes on comments were supposed to help hide spam and silly comments but like any democratic system the majority can always abuse the minorities.
I think I've said everything I've got to say. I'm sorry that this has happened to you but I don't think you're helping yourself or anyone else by doing this. I think that holding on to this anger is toxic and is hurting you. Please, let it go and try to move on.
Thank you for the experiences you provided through your stories. They will always have a place in my heart.
-SecondLaw
Pretty much 1104828 and 1104974 said everything I wanted to say in response to this blog post.
I will add though, For every one person who bullies and/or harasses you, there are many, many, many more that support you and care about you. It hurts me every time I see one of these over-the-top, dramatic blog posts, because I know that it will only make it worse off for you. I've been there, and I've fallen into the same trap before.
I can't stress enough that making such a strong reaction will only make things worse. The best thing you can possibly do is to shrug it off, and stop letting it bother you. At the end of the day, the bullies can't do any long-term harm, and if you stop letting them get to you, then they'll either stop trying once they realize you've stopped caring about them, or even if they keep trying... you'll have stopped caring about them.
So, we're getting a new chapter of I.D.?
Or no?
I really wanted one...
What does online bullying have to do with small, colourful horses?
1105197 Because an author of fan fiction based on those small colorful horses was being abused, genius. Read the atmosphere.
1104856
1104974
Even if this reaction is what the bullies are looking for, I think making her leave the community is the ultimate goal for them. If she leaves, I think, it means the bullies win. And honestly, I don't like it if the bullies win. So, let her vent in her way, and in this case, in a way to give others advice to deflect these horrible cowards.
1104807
I know that you are sincere. I know that you were only trying to do what you thought was the best thing to do in the moment. I accept your apology, and I forgive you, Fangwarden. Please remember this should you bother to read the remaining three parts of this four-part blog series.
1105241
I couldn't care less about what they want. This is obviously hurting Chat even after several months away. The bigger issue is that this kind of reaction only attracts more abuse.
In either case, as I said before, I don't believe that this reaction is constructive or likely to help Chat in any way, shape, or form. In fact, the only ones who are likely to benefit from this are the ones who caused it.
1105253
You'd be surprised how cathartic a collective 'Shut Up, Hannibal!' can be. When in doubt, shame those that would do you and yours harm into utter silence.
1105057>>1104974>>1104943
I fully accept that I am culpable in my own hurt because I did not wear my plastic ass to the internet.
(side note: When I worked at Activision, Electronic Arts, and later with the publishing group that backed Happy Puppy, I often heard the term 'plastic ass'. It was used by business people to describe how all deals are getting 'screwed in the ass' and that before one goes to the boardroom, one needs to 'put on their plastic ass' to prevent being economically raped during contract negotiations. It translates to having emotional armor)
When I started writing on Fimfiction, I was convinced, thanks to articles from Wired and other sources that MLP:FIM was part of 'The New Sincerity' and represented a sea change in the tone of some parts of the internet. The belief was that MLP fandom was changing the internet from Portal Of Evil style assholes to a wish for something kinder, better and more genuine. That lured me into being creative again, and for one year, this was my truth. I was part of a very nice community here, and I opened my heart.
I can only create from joy. I don't do well creating from pain or sorrow or anger. So I opened my heart here, and that is why my stories of humans becoming ponies mirror the notion of MLP itself changing the hearts of people on the internet to become decent people. I fell for my own bullshit - I know this fact, and I admit it, freely. I was stupid - during the time I wrote Conversion Bureau stories, I had, for the first time in my life, true, real, positive feelings about humanity and the future of the human race.
When the bullies came from outside and attacked, I was utterly open, innocent, and incapable of defending myself - my own fault that. I had made the idiotic mistake of forgetting an entire lifetime of being hurt by humans for being things they didn't approve of. I was an idiot - I was infected with genuine hope and faith in the future. I will never make that mistake again, I assure you.
That said, the bullies from Spacebattles and other locations did much more than simply make hurtful comments and death threats. My family servers and mailservers were hacked and wiped - they are still under attack now. This hurt our family business. Those that did this left messages directed at me personally, from the Anti-Conversion Bureau. Death threats. Warnings not to write any more TCB stories. Insults about my gender, my abilities, my family, and myself.
I have shown all of these things, with server logs and more to Knighty. Nothing has been done beyond a weak attempt to ban the Anti-Conversion Bureau. It was not followed through with, though, which is why they still exist under a slightly different name.
I do not care if the original ten or twelve people who started this campaign of terror are directly responsible for the real-world attacks, the fact is that they created a group that inspired hate crimes against me, my family, and our businesses.
Do not suggest legal action. That is never worth consideration unless you are very wealthy, and we are not. There is no legal provision to protect adults, only children - I am fifty-three. Being part of the TCB was the only thing that kept me going through the near death of two of my spouses. To have that taken away from me by harassment was harmful. To have our servers wrecked was harmful. To have my family threatened by zealous Anti-Conversion Bureau people was harmful.
To have it all ignored or minimized by both Knighty, the Mods, and those who I thought were my friends here was a catastrophe for me. Though I have been seeing a counselor, and we have improved the security of our websites and servers, the attacks still come - though less often now, and I am very, very hurt.
Posting these blogs is a minor form of taking some slight power for myself. I feel emotionally raped by this experience. I should have worn my plastic ass, yes... but I was foolish and started to believe in hope for humanity. I paid the price.
Right now, I can't imagine being OK again. But I have to trust that someday things will get better for me. At least our servers are secure... for now.
What I experienced here was not some minor name-calling. It was a full-on, organized attack against myself and my family. It was a criminal attack. I have demonstrated proof of this, but nothing real has been done.
I feel helpless, and hopeless and hurt.
But I can do one small thing to feel even slightly better.
I can try to teach from my experience. And I can set the record straight.
1105265
I've never been good with words (peculiar I know)... but I think there's an alternative to having the plastic armor... *fidgets a little* It might be me being naive, but I feel that with your friends love and support, it trumps the plastic armor. More than ever now, I'm sure of it.
I realize you might still harbor some skepticism toward me from the way I acted. But I'm going to do more to support you from now on. I might bap you with the nerf bat on occasion, but never again out of paranoia or fear.
1105265
You're concerned that you'll 'never be okay again'... and I say that as long as you have friends and family at your side, you will be, in time. Bones heal, bruises fade. Scars remain, to be sure. But that's merely a sign that nothing's had the guts to actually try and kill you. I don't think anything would dare actually make the attempt. You are so very, very strong, even if you don't think so yourself. The fact you've come back here to make such a series of blog posts proves that flame has not been quenched. I think it's impossible to do so. You are a lot tougher than you give yourself credit for, and we, your friends, will be here to stand with you.
Me. Fangwarden. Gabriel LaVedier. Skybreeze. All the rest of us that support you. We're here. And we're not going to back down when you need somepony to take up a shield in your defense. It's what friends do, is protect each other. You defended me, I've defended you... it's how the world should work. And I don't abandon my friends.
1105265
I was not trying to suggest in any way that you were responsible for being hurt by these attacks. What I was trying to say is that I don't think that having a reaction like this will reduce the probability of such attacks occurring again in the future. In fact, I think it is likely going to cause more problems and I don't want you to keep getting hurt by the actions of these bastards.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. What action could Knighty have taken that would have resolved this? He could ban the individuals involved and they would have signed up with new accounts and been more motivated than before to abuse you. He could have the group banned, but the group would reform under a different name or simply coordinate somewhere else. What if the other side showed him death threats towards them purportedly from you? How could act in a way that would be fair for everyone? I don't believe there is any action he could have taken that would have helped in any realistic fashion. The lack of support must have been very hurtful but I honestly can't understand how he could have helped against individuals determined to go to such lengths as hacking your families private servers.
There's nothing wrong with that and I applaud you in trying to do so but I know that such actions will inevitably cause more such attacks and I worry that that will only hurt you more rather than helping you heal.
Whatever action you take, is of course, up to you. Whatever you do, you have my sympathy and support. I just think that this course of action could do more harm than good.
1105263
The people carrying out these actions have shown from previous incidents that they will not be shamed by censure from anyone here. They might if it came from within their own peer group but it hasn't and won't work with anyone of us.
Edit: This probably isn't the time for humour but Noble Cause, you're the new Rainbow Dash.
1105265
Something like what you describe is not something you lay lay blame on Knighty for. The only thing he can do is attempt to ban troublemakers, which in practice doesn't always work, as evidenced here. Even if you say you'd never be able to afford legal action, reporting what's gone on to proper legal authorities is the only correct response you can make that will make any difference. There is literally nothing Knighty can do about something that happens to your privately owned servers. The only thing he can police is what happens explicitly here in FIMFiction.
Also... Don't be so misanthropic. There are always people that do horrible things, but that subset is the vast minority, even on the internet (though the minority is definitely larger -- it is still a minority). There are plenty more of us that try to put our best foot forward and make our best efforts toward being the best kind of person we can be.
You've always had an amazing and unique view, for the entire time I've been following you here. I'll be very saddened to see that change. I sincerely hope you can pull through with as much of yourself intact as you can manage, and that maybe, eventually, you can find enough of your heart left to offer some of it back to us once again.
1105286
Having grown up as a teacher's foal, SecondLaw, I've taken my share of beatings. Mental, physical, psychological. I didn't get much in the way of help, despite my dad's best efforts to protect me. There was only so much he could do as a teacher. So I learned to defend myself. With words, and if needs must, with actions. Words normally did the trick, because legal threats are lovely things, but sometimes, a good crack to the skull was more effective. I try not to be violent if I can help it. I'm a scholar, not a warrior. That doesn't mean I'm going to be a fucking doormat, either. And damn if I'm going to let one of my best friends in Chatoyance get walked all over either.
1105293
I'm sorry to hear that Noble. I've had issues with bullies but thankfully it's never escalated to physical violence. Probably because I had size advantage over most kids and they knew that they wouldn't have much of a chance if it came to that.
The problem is that on the internet words are... 01001010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110 and that short of providing a link to real identity somewhere there are no real consequences for any individual's actions. The problem is nothing I can say or do will prevent these people from acting as they do.
1105302
Parts two and three will address more of what Knighty could do to prevent harassment on Fimfiction. Some of the methods have already been outlined in part one.
In a nutshell, the way to vastly reduce online abuse is to:
1. Require real identification during signup to the forum. This does not have to be seen by anyone but Knighty himself. But the knowledge that every member is known by the owner of the site has powerful effects - and benefits.
2. Carefully and deliberately construct the tools and gadgets on the site to prevent abuses and to maximize user ability to protect themselves. Choose only tools and gadgets that reflect cooperation, and eliminate all that encourage conflict and division into oppositional groups.
3. Make certain that all tools of protection (block, delete, and so forth) actually work, and cannot themselves be abused, and that the tools when used do not incur social penalties.
4. Actively and robustly follow through on a well established and clearly defined policy against harassment and abuse. Fimfiction has utterly failed with regard to this at every level.
If all four of these elements were robustly applied, abuse and harassment would be vastly reduced nearly to nonexistence. I have seen it happen, and I have personally made it happen on the forums I ran for years. These things really work.
They just need to actually be done. That's all. Just that.
1105293
Noble Cause - as long as I am here, for however long that is, I want to take the time to say that I deeply appreciate your kindness, nobility, and friendship. I just wanted to make sure I said that to you.
1105273
I know you are a good soul, Fangwarden. I am sorry for the harsh words I said when I was initially shocked and hurt in the past. I am trying to get better, inside. I've been seeing a counselor, I've been doing therapy stuff, I am taking my healing seriously. Facing this place now is actually kind of part of the therapy bit. Facing my pain/fear crap, you know?
It's pretty pathetic, though, to get a damn diagnosis of PTSD over something like cyberharassment. They tell me that I shouldn't be embarrassed by this, that when such attacks cross into the real world that such a response is reasonable... but I just feel weak and stupid, and keep thinking of all those contracts back in my career days, and how I should'a worn my 'plastic ass'.
I've always thought that term was hilarious, myself. Plastic ass. Business people are ruthless and really, really scary sometimes, but they do have some funny internal jargon. The 80's and 90's were really aggressive times, business-wise.
Welcome back, if only for a short while.
I will say that as someone who deals with the "portal of evil", extensively in my other online dealings - you are pretty much on the money here.
I have written so very much about the how's and why's of anonymity bullying in an online venue I feel a bit like a broken record at this point. Second life, the place I choose to 'get my pony on' is likened to a griefing simulator by psychologists for exactly the same reasons you listed above... The hands-off attitude of the owners breeds a wild-west mentality where roving gangs get away with virtual murder because they are time-entrenched and dealing with them requires manpower no one has.
The issue ultimately is, as you mentioned, anonymity. Anonymity in a group setting erodes social mores to a point they cease to exist, because humans in a group tend to drift to the lowest common denominator. See "mob mentality"
The people that make hourly attacks on my servers because I dare to stand against them ( with my 'rools' and 'fun police') in a virtual setting turn out to be mousy introverts in the real world because I can physically throttle them for being an ass.
The biggest thing I have done to garner the abject hatred of these people was implement a service that introduces accountability to this lawless system. If you are one of these anon assholes in any of the 12 regions I own, or any of the roughly 18 regions owned by those who are just as sick of it as I am - we remove your access from every region in our system. You do not get unlimited do-overs by simply going to another sim... That account is done and you get to 'roll again'.
And they do. But it takes us 7 seconds to remove them, and it takes several minutes to make an alt. They eventually get frustrated and go away, because the "lulz ROI" sucks for them.
If you take away the repercussions for socially bad behavior with complete anonymity, you get virtual lord of the flies. FimFiction is just another example of this.
One thing to think about with regard to knighty and the 'fixing' of fimfiction are "asshole friends". This is a phenomena I see quite a bit in online social systems where a community manager is not willing to enact certain controls because, while it would not effect them, they would be put in a position to have to ban their asshole friends. And that is not an acceptable situation.
So, yes; I feel for you, I agree with you, and I understand with clarity few have the complexities of what you are dealing with. If you ever need an ear to bend over it, shoot me a PM here or on my (safe and sane) forums...
Love ya Chat, and I hope you make it past this.
1104924
Perhaps some nice coverart would be nice; to help catch the eye better.
While I'll be the first one to say that you make some good points, and that this doesn't mean you deserve to be the victim of such behaviour, I find some of the complaining to be extremely hypocritical.
You're accusing Knighty (and others) of being complicit in a system of abuse with no evidence to back that statement up thus far. And certainly against my own experiences, anecdotal as they are.
I have seen you personally abuse these systems by blocking people for simply disagreeing with you with, despite the comment containing nothing other than intelligently worded disagreement over a subjective matter. I have seen you react with hostility and rudeness towards others who do not share your subjective interpretation. And this isn't over your stories either.
While there are a lot of things being said in various corners of the interweb about you and your work, let's just say that I've seen evidence that some of the accusations have truth to the claims.
But anyway, let's take a brief look at your points and suggestions:
This is done precisely to prevent the tool being abused and leave some accountability, and to make it harder to silence dissenting opinions. When ih8pwnyfagsss138 leaves a comment which gets deleted people are not going to assume the worst. When an author deletes a comment from CoolGuy46 who has a reputation on the site for being polite, constructive, and intelligent then it makes their claims of harassment much more dubious. And prevents posts from mysteriously 'disappearing' without trace.
They do. But almost any system can be abused by someone sufficiently dedicated. Any social features (desirable for end users) will be abused unless you put in a lot of work to stop it. Youtube is also an example, and that's got the immense resources of Google behind it.
The validity of criticism has nothing to do with tone, and everything to do with validity of the points raised. Someone can be a rude jerk and still give out the most helpful and accurate criticism you've ever seen, as long as you can separate it out. Politeness is desirable, not an intrinsic part of 'real' criticism.
Some out there will object to anything that isn't mindless veneration and praise, and sometimes there is no polite way to make some criticisms.
1105324
The site has already been compromised in the past. Tying real life information into profiles would have a disastrous effect for some, not only in terms of the security of their various other accounts, but also in terms of employment etc. should a malicious actor get that information.
Quite apart from this it is a completely unworkable idea. My name has the advantage of being fairly common, and seeing as I'm not stupid enough to hand over my personal details to anyone who doesn't need them (which in combination with my other practices has meant in 20 years of internet use I've never been scammed, or suffered a security compromise) it makes it utterly useless even if I gave you my real name. And I wouldn't.
While there are a lot of stupid people out there, all this would do is act as an extremely minor barrier. Any system you propose could easily be evaded, and would simply lead to users turning elsewhere.
Aside from subjecting Knighty to extensive legal repercussions if the site were hacked, what good would it do if he was the only person with this information, as acting on it in any way other than to try and block registrations would constitute a crime? Obviously useless.
So what about one step further: make everyone post under their real name? Ask Blizzard to tell you how well that one went.
There are improvements that can be made here. I like the idea of making voting on comments public myself.
Hello Chat,
It's great to see you back! Whether you decide to stick around or not, it makes me happy if only because it means you're feeling better, and that you're getting back to writing.
I'm also glad you're taking a crack at addressing some of the problems of participation in communities on the internet and FIMfiction in particular. That you're willing to tackle such an issue - despite the controversy it's very likely to raise - is a sure sign that your energy level is on the rise. Speaking up will again draw the attention of the trolls and the haters, but from your post and replies to other comments it appears you going into this with eyes open. Please just keep in mind that you have a lot of friends on FIMfiction, and keep your plastic ass, hazmat suit, noise cancelling headphones and an umbrella handy to deal with the bozos!
1105460
Ah okay unfortunately I'm no artist but I can ask around if you like I'm sure I can find someone capable of doing that.
Also as a side note my Dear student I would advise caution if you intend to have dealings with the poster of this blog and with TCB in general I don't want them dragging you down.
1105496
It is of no concern to me. I have been a veteran of TCB for some time. I've even had some brief, but intimate, conversations with dear Chatoyance. I'll spare you the boring detail, but I have also suffered bullying, though not of the cyberspace variety. I see where she's come from, and though I cannot provide a sword, I will provide a shield.
Because is that not what the magic of friendship is? To make friends from foes? To champion goodness in the eyes of your peers? To help you up when you fall?
1105531
<smiles> Indeed it is and I can't stop you and I won't try if you are indeed her friend then do stick by her even though I can't help but feel part of this is her fault and if you hate me for suggesting this than so be it.
I admire your loyalty perhaps you are better able to understand her than I am I wish you luck in helping her, but I'm afraid I cannot do the same for numerous reasons
1105560
Far from it, sir. I'm always glad to help a friend.
Chat, I love you as an artist and storyteller. Your works are like tapestries of hope and transhumanism. That you're retrieving your unpublished work on I.D. fills me with joy, since it implies you'll be working on it somewhere, and I hope you inform us where.
I am sincerely sorry for your experiences on this site. I will say no more.
1105487
The easiest solution is sponsoring. Because the core problem is two-fold: anonymity and ease of account creation.
All 'bad' accounts will have a commonality: new, with zero input to the system, because the account was made to harass and nothing more.
What sponsorship does is remove the power of this type of account.
In short, any new account that has not passed the criteria to be an actual member of the site (days active, or for this site words written) is prohibited from commenting or otherwise adjusting site content. This stops "zero day account" trolls. (See above comments by 'whatever'2, that was created today specifically to get around the primary account being blocked)
New accounts can be sponsored by established accounts to bypass this rule and allow legitimate new users with legitimate friends here near-instant access to the site. But the new account is tied to the sponsoring account, and any 'bad behavior' results in both accounts being subject to discipline.
In this way you can quickly weed out the problems by filtering out all of the accounts used to harass others, and the social mores of the community act as the barrier to entry.
This adds accountability, without requiring real-world information tie-in.
1105329
Well, to be honest, I deserved a dose of harsh words.
But in any case, for however long you're here, whether it's to try and start writing again, or just to post your blogs, or just need someone to talk to, here or on Skype, feel free to drop me a line.
1105675
Goddess, but you are expert at these matters. I dearly wish Knighty would listen to you, and implement your practical understanding. I did my best (see part two of this blog) but this is just brilliant stuff. Your wisdom is always a pure joy to read, and a sorrow to not see used in this environment.
*scrolls down through comments, sees many long posts that shall be read after writing down own thoughts*
I share with you a bit of my life story.
EDIT: READ THIS ALL IN A DULL MONOTONE!
I was picked on for years in school. Teachers did not intervene. My theory as to why, is because I was physically much larger than the one picking on me, and because that person was careful not to get caught, thereby minimizing the number of times that they were caught, and in turn, were not perceived to be a big enough problem to bother with.
Why was I picked on even though I was larger? Because I was an easy target. I was taught to not be violent, therefore, I was a safe target. Being picked on for 7 years without release probably shaped me some. I am very easygoing, but even that does not stop the pressure from building up forever. The brain chemistry of puberty just makes things worse too.
To properly understand this, I was picked by means of constant small things (they seemed like larger things when your younger) like being cut in-front in line, having something closed on my fingers, and of course, the age-old practice of name-calling, or whatever other things he could think of and get away with.
It did finally escalate to a more physical kind of bullying. He made a mistake though, and did it with no one around. It was late in the school day, nearing summer, and quite warm, I could not take it, so I fought back, and he had no chance. I don't know if the realization that I was willing to fight back stopped the bullying, or being suspended from school during a big after-school sports thing was what did it, maybe both, but then again, maybe his parents finally smartened up to what he has been doing in school, but the bullying did stop quite quickly. Oh, almost forgot to mention this; our fight brought us out into the hall, against the wall, and no less than the principle happen to walk by! Ha! It could haven been a different story if that had not happened… There was no denial of a fight having occurred though.
I know there are much worse degrees of bullying than this (I am not that oblivious), but I am sharing this to give you the background information for how I think I developed my “armour” against mental bullying. Although, my armour may be in part the way I think, but then, the way I think is likely also influenced by my experiences with that constant long-term needling.
I try to take nothing for fact. Question everything, and then question everything that thing is based on. When I read: “Unless you can state to yourself that someone posting a comment is worth your respect and trust, INSTANTLY DISMISS WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO SAY.”, I thought of my own way of thinking. I might also mention my personality type is something like a horrible combination of mostly C type with a few attributes from type B and some from type D. It's hard to get under my skin because I don't care. But then, I don't care, so that has it's own down-side, but then again, even someone else has difficulty affecting me, I can easily make myself depressed— and I'm starting to ramble.
To this first part, I have to point out that thinking of someone as less, more, or equal to someone else is profoundly flawed, but done extremely often. You cannot measure a person, no matter how hard you try. The things that make up a person are incompatible with each other for the purpose of measuring. There are only people, with many complexities, they can not be reduced to a value, weather it be absolute or relative in nature. In the constitution, I believe it says “all men are created equal”. But this is flawed because of the above reasons. It is one of the many flawed ways of thinking that you have mentioned before, and they are insidiously (not sure if that is the correct usage, but meh) difficult to detect. You can certainly still decide that someone is not worth your time based on their past actions though, this I agree with. That is probably the most efficient course of action to take. But then, there are some few people who attack you, that may actually be open to change, I do not know, I have not had the opportunity to study these people, anonymity of the internet and all. And that brings it back to people lying, and taking advantage of your trust. Someone may take advantage your trying to help them, but then, they may also just be reflexively being mean if you try to help them, because your words actually get to them, and make them confused and depressed because they start to realize how they have been acting is not right. It is very difficult to know what someone is thinking, even if they tell you, because you should not trust them if they have had a history of being untrustworthy. This sounds familiar, oh I see, I just read it recently. (Awkward joke: I would make a horribly flimsy AI, as I'd always be getting stuck in looping and going off on barely related tangents.) So back to measuring people: you can not measure someone because they is not reliable standard to measure them against either. You can make a standard up or use one that you like the looks of, but there is no standard. DNA is not even standard, If you averaged the DNA of every human on the planet somehow, it would still be wrong because using a standard in the first place is wrong. On a side note, everything is changing, and I think it is changing for a reason, that being that it has not reached a resting point. And you better hope it does not reach a resting point. Wait, who am I talking to? You know this already.
To part 2, I agree with everything that I don't disagree with. Arg! Someone hurry and invent telepathy! Writing is an art form for a reason! (Habitual attempt at comic relief aside.) I always seen to have trouble understanding how someone's feelings are hurt. Maybe I need a mountain's worth of more context. But anyway, yes, being able to decide who to invest time thinking about is useful. But always made harder by the dilemma of not knowing much about anyone online. So what is the point of even talking to anyone at all? What can we get out of communication if you don't know weather or not to trust what someone says? I think those are answered by our ability to organize what someone says into the rough categories of: “something I think I can confirm for myself”, “something that I think I have to either trust as the truth, or deny as false because I cannot confirm this for myself”, and “this is someone's opinion that they have either stated as such, or implied by the way they have said it”. Sorting everything like this probably seems like a lot of work, but if you become well practiced at it, it is more or less automatic. Do I sound paranoid? I probably am. You too can become paranoid like me, and live free of the burdens of emotional contact with your fellow people! Which brings this to a reminder that too much of anything is a poison, or at-least that's how the saying goes. I think it was said by some Greek medicine guy, long ago. And then there's the saying “everything in moderation”. Speaking of moderation, there have to be better moderated places on the internet to post your writing and still be able communicate with readers. Is deviant art well moderated? Because DA has a way to post written works. I think I even saw some MLP:FIM fanfics over there. And they have a comment system! I honestly don't know much about submitting written works. I did upload a TXT file to one time as a test, but it automatically took out the underscores inside of the file, and replaced them with spaces. But they have a writing application that supports some types of text formatting!
I beg forgiveness for my sloppy writing!
Quoted twice, sorry, but it's kind up there on the page a bit.
Anyway, I keep coming back to the human tendency make sense of things by labeling them normal or abnormal, sane or insane. Other than that, I have to agree that this is very solid. Now I seem to be talking to hear the sound of my own—keyboard…
Uh, so… Nice to see you back here Chat. Even if only briefly?
I was very worried when you left under the circumstances and emotional turmoil you that you did.
EDIT Again: I was meaning to put this in, but forgot to!
If your still hurting from abuse, try feeling sorry for the person who did the abusing.
This—
—made me think of that.