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After working on a major project for the betterment of Equestria, Twilight Sparkle brings her work to her mentor and princess for approval and funding, and her proposal is rejected outright without explanation or sympathy.
Devastated by Celestia's refusal, Twilight tries to determine whether she has failed her work or her teacher - and wonders what her special status and talent is worth.
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Well, thus ends my first actual attempt at posting fanfiction of any sort since 2001. I don't at this point have any of the impressive pre-reading and editing so many fine fics do, so this may yet be a little rough around the edges - please let me know if you spot any mistakes, or have any advice for improvement. I'm rusty as all hell, and tend to go on at times... and on... and on... I hope you like words!
This particular piece was inspired a little by Researcher Twilight, which is intriguing; a fair bit by the problems in Earth & Sky, which is magnificently like reading a movie-length episode of the show; and a lot by my fuzzy memories of reading about the Luddite movement in high school.
More pieces to come soon as NaNoWriMo moves on!
Megusta.
And I find this interpretation of Cutie Marks to be entirely draconian and beyond what the show shows. Bad form.
This was an excellent read with decent philosophical notions on progress, technology in regards to the working individual, and changes within a society based on "set in stone" talents. May you get featured for this.
Loved it. It definitely deserves to be featured.
interesting and thought provoking. I enjoyed this.
1571319 Always encouraging when your first positive comment is from an author you've been reading for a while now. :) ¡gracias!
1571400 That's the whole reason I got into pony fanfiction - looking at the concepts everyone in the setting takes for granted and examining the consequences, and I'm certainly not the only one. I will agree that the show tends to not go into the cutie marks and their exact effect on a pony's life much, beyond the somewhat unreliable point of view of the CMC, and it's likely that a lot of ponies have cutie marks either quite unrelated to any likely careers (a cutie mark for bowling comes to mind...) or as a sort of assistance rather than a direct link (Rarity, Fluttershy, Twilight and Pinkie Pie) but there would inevitably be situations where somepony's special talent was simply... not required, or even openly rejected by society. It really is a kind of dark thought, so if you found it unpleasant to consider, I'd say it's a job well done. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, but thank you nonetheless. :)
1571484>>1571562>>1571596 Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for your comments! Doesn't look like I'm likely to be featured at this point, but plenty more fics to come this month yet, I hope!
I'm sorry, did you say this WASN'T pre-read or edited? Brcause it really doesn't show, not to me at any rate. While I admit I have no head for improving the structure of a story, I felt it flowed quite smoothly. I also didn't spot any spelling, punctuation, or grammar issues. As for the subject, I quite like that fir the sake of the story, you assume certain details for the sake of the story then analyze the heck out of it. I do feel that I should point out that even though a pony has a cutie mark for something doesn't mean they're helpless in all other areas. An example: Twilight's organizational skills are superb, quite possibly better than Ponyville's own Mayor Mare if Winter Wrap Up is any indication. Still, whether this was omitted by mistake or intention, the addition of it would have undercut the whole plot.
tl;dr: Great story, and I'll be awaiting your next one!
1571996 It's true that no pony is truly and completely defined by their talent - they are not, as it were...
one trick ponies - it may be that Celestia and Luna are still using values that fit better a thousand years ago, when every pony would be expected to do what they do best simply to keep the community going.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it - The first chapter of my next story is already in the queue awaiting approval, although it's very different in theme to this one. :)
It is a very well though story. There are ponies that have jobs unrelated to their cutie mark and chose a job out of necessity, those jobs are maybe even a steeping stone like Rainbow's, and being forced to look for another jobs would be only a chore. Then there are other ponies who have jobs actually related to their talents like Pinkie and Rarity whose cutie marks are somewhat related to their jobs, but if they were forced out of work, albeit certainly annoying, would not mean they would find themselves in a crisis. But then there are those that seem to live by their cutie mark, like almost any Apple Family member or the cakes, forcing Applejack to look a job not related to either farming or Apples, or forcing the cakes to work outside a Confectionery or Bakery could make them feel like they are losing a part of themselves.
Being completely sure what is your special talent, living most of your live with it on display, and working for years in a workplace you enjoy and are good at only to find yourself being replaced by progress and being told not to bother looking for a similar work because you won't find it could and would be crushing. It would be like telling Rainbow she will either never fly again, or she won't be able to do much more than a little hovering, that she will never be able to pick up a good amount of speed and that stunt flying is a thing of the past... There are several fics like that, and while something like that would never happen on the show itself is something that could easily happen on Equestria.
A stagnant society is almost as good as dead, but there is a thing as too much progress for such a little amount of time. And while that could be devastating on any society, in one so centered on your main talent it can take a whole new level. I have to wonder if is there is really and upside to Cutie Marks, I mean, Rainbow Dash wouldn't really be slower without her mark, Twilight would still have her magic without it, and seeing Celestia could raise the Moon she certainly could raise the sun without hers. The only thing they are good for is giving others a good idea of who could you be even if you are a stranger, and that could easily be used against you.
Good show. Jolly good show!
This is really quite good. My only suggestion might be to break up the dialogue with a little more action or description. It drifts a bit too near to "wall of text" here and there. But for your first crack at writing in over a decade? Stellar.
EDIT: Oh, and closing quotation marks around your paragraphs! Quotation marks never fly solo like that.
On the other hand, did you have to write this while I'm waiting on approval for a story called 'The Pony Who Wasn't Special' that also touches on the darker side of a special talent? You're just so dang selfish.
1572054 is it where inventions do go through and things spiral out of control for real? Cuz if not, can I write a story where this happens and only unicorns are left because there was no need for earth ponies or pegasi (if you do say yes, it still might not happen cuz i'm not sure what plot can come out of it, yet)?
It was well written, and you bring up an interesting problem, but I don't think that you adequately addressed its ramifications in the story.
Mostly, I feel like the interaction between characters was kind of flat. Most of the story was background information, which is fine for a introduction chapter, but for a one shot like this, especially one that's only 6,683 words long, it feels like you are more interested in world-building than character building.
Basically, I think that you tried to do too much in too short a story. You tried to cram everything into a short one-shot, and because of that everything can only be glossed over.
So I give this a 6/10: It has an interesting premise, but it fails to live up to its potential. The best way to correct this would be to extend the chapter, or to turn this into a story with multiple chapters.
I'm reminded of a Cherilee story in which her cutie mark is questioned and revealed to not have a link to teaching.
1572966
Found it.
Smiling Flowers
A bit rough around the edges, but a nice exploration of the ramifications of special talents/cutie marks. I particularly like the idea of Celestia deliberately pacing technological advancement in Equestria -- very interesting.
A healthy dose of metaphysics. Good show, author!
A story that can start debates on equine existentialism is always welcome
And... I believe this is what Princess Luna felt before transforming to Nightmare Moon:
Quite interesting story I must say, I like how you explained what happened in the pass and all the emotions put inside this story like Twilight sadness ( you realy made me angry on Celestia in there, nicely played ).
It still leave question do cuty mark is like specialization where only rare ones like Twilight cuty mark ( talent in magic give tons of displayes in what it will be used for ).
Or a hint into direction where this pony is best at, for example, Rarity special talent is finding gems, but she just use it as tool for her favorite think, fasion, because she would not be happy to work in the gem mines for sure.
SO I quess that cuty mark symbolize special talent, but how it is used is basicaly a free choice.
There was even a game Pony Platforming Project 3, where colgate with time as special talent decided to become a dentist with rather short but epic adventure with epic bosses in the end.
pretty awesome story
keep it up!
Browsing the description and comments, when I saw this:
weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/oh-stop-it-you.png
That made me smile.
Haven't read this yet, but I will as soon as I get home tonight.
I said, "Screw it! I can take 15 minutes form work to read this." And then I read it. And it's pretty damned good. I like the way you address the seemingly slow progress of technology in Equestria.
The only big thing that I noticed, that always makes my eye twitch a bit, was the use of hyphens in place of dashes. I saw a few word choices—that stood out towards the start of the story—that didn't really seem to fit with the feeling being put forward. Also, a lot of very minor punctuation and grammar errors throughout, but for doing all the editing on your own story by yourself, it is quite impressive.
I have several pre/proofreaders go through my Researcher Twilight chapters before I post them, and we still miss things... like to the point where I'll edit a chapter multiple times after posting.
Overall, well done, and very poignant. I really enjoyed it.
Oh, cutie marks, how do they work anyway? Do they somehow magically carry some sort of foresight pertaining to that particular talent in relation to the duration of one's life? If not, their permanence would indeed be quite troubling and limiting, even leading to a lot of unfortunate implications regarding the freedom of choice. If so, there shouldn't be a problem as they should be covered in the first place.
What's there to be afraid of change and progress anyway? Scientia est lux lucis!
Im personally a fan of fics that examine the depths of the cutie mark and its effects on society.
For some reason, WoodenToaster's "Awoken" started up in my head around the sun rise scene.
Not sure what to make of that...
Well. I must admit if ever there was a story that deserved it's spot on the featured board it would be this story. I am often disappointed by the lack of interesting ideas and good storytelling by the things on the feature board. Often times it feels like there isn't anything really worth looking at up there. So imagine my surprise when I find a true gem such as this!
1571400
I'm not sure about that. Whether or not that's the only special talent they possess is less important than what they believe. If they really believe that they are useless if they cannot do what they think their cutie mark says is their special talent then it's not hard to imagine such a pony spiraling downward into depression. Nothing good can come of that. We all want to be special, some people even think we all are, but to lose that which makes us special (if indeed we are) would be an immeasurable harm to the self.
We have such a problem in our world, if you think about it. Every time you hear someone talk about an English major as a dead-end career or use the phrase 'starving artists', then you can see the effect of not being special or at least your 'specialness' being considered of little to no worth. People who really desire to do those things are shortchanged in some ways. How many people read poetry? How many actually care who the author was? Does anything more than a moment of inspiration or feeling ever arise from it? Anyone care to think about the number of jobs today that require skilled manual labor. There are more mass produced items than hand-made one and anyone who really desires to make things that people will use is going to suffer at least a little, they may or may not be able to make a living. If you were skilled at making stained glass, how on earth could you possibly make enough money to get by?
1573109
There is always something to be afraid of in change and progress, those who think there is not are those who the progress benefits the most. For them the benefits outweigh the risks. For others one must assume the risks outweigh the benefits. For instance automation of factories is great if you own the factories and make money off of production and sale or if you benefit by paying less money to get the luxuries you want. The person who makes a living or made a living manufacturing those by hand is now cut out of the game. Their skills are of less value, and they may not be able to get another job. In any case, not everyone can easily rebound and reshape their lives.
Pretty good story.
Nice job on resolving that conundrum quickly in a meaningful way.
Why doesn't Celestia force the populace to accept the innovations? She has the power of a god! Anyone who doesn't immediately accept the proposals can just be "dissapeared". Once they fear you, they won't question you, because they know that's only going to end with a knife in the back.
majhost.com/gallery/spicyness/stuff/obey-celestia.png
Beautiful! May this masterpiece never be forgotten.
1573211 Heh, I thought the crazy Pinkie smilie would help me establish that I was being facetious. But yeah, you're right.
Regarding the story...I don't know. Taking the "Cutie Mark is only good for one thing" bit on its own for the time being...Celestia essentially made the choice, "Better for all to go hungry, then for some to be unhappy." That whole characterisation was...problematic. Its was basically, Unicorns liked Luna's improvements, so did the Pegasii, and at least some portion of the Earth Ponies enjoyed the improvements. But the earth ponies who were benefitting from it still sided with the luddite faction. I mean, if Celestia was going to screw over some group of ponies (which, admit it, she did, with the whole "back to starvation" thing)...well, seems like all she'd have had to do was convince the Earth Ponies who'd benefitted from the change to side with the Pegasii and Unicorns, and it goes from "civil war" to "easily quashed rebellion by lunatic fringe." So, there was that.
The other thing, regarding the cutie marks...now, here's my issue with it. Applejack and family all have apple-themed cutie marks. Alright, fair enough...but they don't JUST grow the apples. They grow them, make them into pies and other pastries, turn them into cider, etc. So, yeah, a pony with a wheat cutie mark, who suddenly no longer needed to grow wheat, might not be able to just transition to art, or construction, or what have you. But you know what happens if you suddenly have more wheat? You need more millers, which is wheat related. You need more bakers, which, depsite the dialogue, is still related to wheat...mostly. Don't need as many grape farmers? Vinters. And so on. Or, even failing that...so you end up with a food surplus, some of which at least can be stored away as protection against future famines and blights.
And, while I'm thinking of it...alright, you dealt in a comment with the ponies who's talent is tangetially related to their job, or unrelated to a career (though, arguably, we DO have professional bowlers, so...). But...what's a bubble cutie mark supposed to mean? Does a crown on your ass mean your special talent is making others want to punch you in the mouth? How does a Compass Rose equate to being a prissy jackass? I'm not going to fault you for making the idea of cutie marks rather draconian, since it is kind of valid, from a certain point of view. But trying to enforce the idea that, "Oops, you have wheat on your flank, you must only farm wheat and do nothing else for the rest of your life because everything must be taken literally," is problematic.
1572765 Actually, those are grammaitcally correct - The ending quotation is to signal that the speaker has stopped speaking. If, on the other hand, the speaker continues speaking into a new paragraph, as Luna does here, you don't have a close quote at the end of the preceding paragraph, but you still have an open quote at the beginning of the new paragraph.
1573214 Can't tell if sarcastic or not. If serious...yes, so much yes. They control the sun and moon. Fear should keep the local ponies in line.
1573259 Oh, I am serious. So serious that I'd volunteer to be Celestia's Chief Enforcer and Executioner.
I find the concept rather limited, and disingenuous to the series.
A pony is not limited by their cutie mark. Because a cutie mark is not the road, it's the signpost, but simply because the signpost is there doesn't mean you have to follow it. There are several ponies in the series who don't really follow their cutie marks.
Cutie marks are no more limiting than the elements of harmony themselves--simply bearing an element doesn't really mean you exemplify it, just that you're capable of it.
YOU FAIL ECONOMICS FOREVER.
YOU ALSO FAIL SOCIOLOGY FOREVER.
Good Lord. I'm having to fight the urge to bludgeon someone with an Economics 101 textbook!
It's the goddamn John Henry myth.... that increased productivity and better tools in an industry will destroy jobs. Every ignoramus in history has been afraid of that, and every ignoramus has been WRONG.
It's a myth, goddammit! It doesn't WORK that way! If it did, civilization would have imploded with the invention of the plow or the wheel.
Increased production means GROWTH. and GROWTH means MORE openings for employees, not LESS.
In the short term, there will be a rise in unemployment, but that will disappear as increased productivity results in growth and expansion, and people IN the industry are trained in the new methods.
Even IF every pony in the weather factory was somehow enslaved to their 'special talent' to produce weather, they would be RE employed to meet the needs of a growing industry! And it's pretty canonical that special talents are a wee bit more flexible than that, anyhow.
Celestia is not 'saving jobs' or 'protecting her little ponies', she's wasting their resources, and their LIVES, with a less-efficient system.
THUMBS DOWN. HARD.
This has been very interesting and thought-provoking. Good job!
I find this rather disturbing. What if it were an innovation in medical science? Random example, Twilight builds a machine that cures everything! And I mean everything from broken limbs to cancer.
Why didn't Celestia just say 'no' when ponies started to bang rocks together to make fire? Fire can destroy and bring pain, surely some ponies could find their death in it too. How about when they invented the wheel? Who's going to think about all those poor ponies who only know how carry stuff from point A to point B?
Okay, I'm exagerating, I know. Celestia only started to limit things after what happened to Luna but limiting ideas like she does to protect the few ponies it could affect seems stupid. And I don't like how you describe the meaning of cutie marks. Why wouldn't they be up for interpretation? Rarity has gems for a cutie mark, but she makes clothes with and without gems. Clothes aren't even featured on her mark. Fluttershy has butterflies but she takes care of every sick and hurt animal, not just butterflies.
I apologise if I sound negative, because I did enjoy your story. It gave me some food for thought
That... That story is Absurd.
First of all: Well written, interesting idea, but in the end it gives me some Serious eye-twitches.
Celestia actively repressing technology? In order to prevent ponies loosing their job? The heck?
The only way this could Possibly work, if she's a complete and utter dictator. Her word is law and screw anyone who thinks differently. With inventions like that, the ponies could have looked at private funding, and they'd receive it! If we go by the example of Filthy Rich, then there's obviously ponies around with a talent for economics. They'd see the value of these inventions even if the Princess deny funding. It's just not possible to suppress technology that way, not without extremely heavy-handed methods.
A more Reasonable way for Celestia to have solved something like this, would have been to have a tax around entirely with the purpose of offering a pension to those made "useless" by the new technologies. To help these ponies get new jobs and training. Official stipends. And that's if you go the heavy socialist road. (Which is fine by me. I live in a socialist country anyway.)
And that's not even considering the effect of how science and inventions foster More science and inventions. How many medical, life saving, technologies haven't been delayed centuries because of this?
I suppose that, after this rant, I should tell you my rating? Well, I'm giving it a thumbs up. I can't quite say I liked it, but it was an interesting direction to take it in, it was well written, and it made me Think. So that's the least I can do for it. I can't take this "universe" seriously, but I didn't dislike the way you told your story.
1573344
I find it amusing how we had exactly the same concerns at the same time :P.
1573339
I love your name and I just have to say that I agree with your comment entirely! xD
Except the thumbs down part. It still was well written, even if the economic and sociologic concepts were absurd.
1573259
Not sure that their was anything Luddite in there at all. It sounded like the problem was not so much that their jobs were replaced with machines, but that they were effectively replaced. In other words, ponies were displaced because they themselves had no relevance or importance to Equestria, not because they needed new jobs now. That seems like something that all ponies would have a problem with, excepting of course the unicorns and pegasi whose place in Equestria was not affected.
1573214
Yeah like that would work. The canon and fanon would suggest that Luna and Celestia are very much affected by their attachment to their work and the good of ponies in general not to mention how they feel that ponies see htem. If everypony ignored both of them completely, they'd probably fall apart mentally. Yay for Nightmare Moon and Nightmare Flare (fanfic ref) at the same time! I think at that point they'd be doomed, since all of Equestria would want them gone. Immortal beings may be unkillable, but it doesn't keep them from being bound or sealed away with magic. That and if you go with unicorns being able to raise the sun and moon, they'd probably solve that eventually if they didn't die out first. It seems clear that Celestia sticks with monarchy/dictatorship because she truly thinks it best for the ponies if her and Luna are solely in charge.
A well written story but the logic the characters hold is horrible. They are to avoid change because it might make some unhappy? Yes, I am simplifying it... but wow, what a sad, disgusting view that promotes death.
I'm dead serious. Have you ever heard of the Red Queen Theory? It comes from Alice in Wonderland... the Red Queen must always run, and she can't stop because if she does she will be sent flying back. But she can never move forward... she has to keep running and trying harder in order to stay in place. That idea has become the Red Queen Theory: that life must always evolve just to stay in place.
For example... lets say a plant is the favored food of a type of horse. The plants evolve needles to protect the leaves. But the horse evolves a long tongue. So the plant creates a poison that it releases if too many leaves at eaten. So the horse learns to only eat a few leaves. So the plant develops pollen to warn other plants that it is being eaten and they too should make the poison. This isn't hypothetical... there really is a tree that does this and the horse is the modern giraffe.
What Luna and Celestia are suggesting will lead to the death of Equestria. When you stop evolving and stop growing you die. Not just as a species but as a country. Look at the Romans... they got big and powerful so they stopped trying... they stuck with what they knew and called it a day. Well, along comes the invaders that have evolved and bam! Rome is burning and Nero is playing his fiddle.
Life is about change. The moment it becomes static we die. And the idea that we should hide innovation just to avoid hurt feelings is the exact opposite of harmony... I wonder what the element of honesty would say to that! What Celestia and Luna are suggesting is that it is better to lie and hide and not move forward as long as it spares the few... the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Twilight herself said that Equestria is having problems with the weather... so the answer is to do nothing about it?
Luna suggested slowly implementing it... uh... duh. Celestia could have said that. Instead she just boldly says no and leaves Twilight a wreck. Nice fix, Princess. "Twilight, this is a wonderful idea... let us discuss how will will implement it"... vs. "NO" and sending the unicorn on her way... wow... just wow.
And what a sad, poor view Celestia has of her subjects. 1000 years ago they did something so now Celestia refuses to let something similar happen again. That is such a horrible view for a ruler to have and, once again, dooms Equestria to become stagnant. Luna's excuse of "Well, we are already ahead of the gryphons" reeks of foolishness. She sounds like the kings of old when the barbarians would be at their gate and the ruler would scoff... right before their head was lobbed off. She has so little trust in them... it is sad. I half wish there would be another chapter, where Twilight did go ahead without Celestia's consent and the Princess finds that her 'little ponies' are adults and can handle change and hey, might even be happy for the help!
And finally (and I am truly sorry for this long, drawn out review... I know how much i hate it when others post like this in my stories), I am left feeling empty by the ending because we get no true resolution. Celestia caused Twilight so much pain... and she is given a free pass because 'I am sure she had it just as bad?' Uh... no. Sorry, but no. No one in life gets a free pass because they feel bad for hurting another person. Sorry, but no. Again, weak arguments and postering over the true issues.
Now... if this is what you were going for, then you have done a WONDERFUl job. I am not being sarcastic... if the story's message is to portray Luna and Celestia as being stuck in the past and unable to see the future, than you've done a great job. But... if I am suppose to sympathize with either of them... then I am afraid you need to go back to the drawing board, because your Celestia and Luna are either dictators or fools and their actions in this story's universe will doom Equestria, mark my words.
Technically wise, I did not find any grammar errors or structure errors, so good job there. You write solid pieces that promote thought... though I doubt this type of thought is what you were looking for.
1571400 I agree, in fact this interpretation of cutie marks is completely wrong for cannon-verse.
First, Cutie Marks only are of the special talent already in that pony, they don't suddenly get a totally different talent with their cutie mark. Which is why Rainbow Dash was already fast and Rarity could already find gems.
Which brings me to my second point, Your cutie mark does not have to be your profession, there are so many ponies that have cutie marks unrelated to their job. I'll list a few. Rarity for one, her special talent is finding gems, she actually has to work to be a dress maker, it's a skill not a talent. Derpy, her talent is bubbles. Colgate, she is the town dentist (admittedly that is fanon, but there can't be that high of a demand for turning a big hourglass). Celestia, her cutie mark is blatantly the sun, but the moon works just as well for a thousand years.
Finally, the weather factory is understaffed as it is. Now would be the best time to update them, since it would have the least impact should the cutie mark thing be true in your alternate universe. Once the demand gets back enough, by your logic more pegasi will start poofing up weather cutie marks like crazy!
This seems less like an alternate take on Equestria or even commentary on what industrialization does to jobs, and more a Luddite's view on why technology is bad. It even uses the same arguments in the story the same way Luddites did with complaints that no one will be able to work as long as machines continue to get better.
There seems to be an awful lot of people focused on the part about losing the job. That's really a minor concern, though--it's the impact on their special talent, the loss of their purpose in life, the newfound absence of a piece of their soul, that would really hit them. Cutie Marks can be a bit abstract from time to time, but what someone's talent is is very clearly defined. Not being able to perform that anymore would be... crippling. Further, they *can't* get job training to learn to do the same jobin a very different way in this interpretation of Cutie Marks.
Further, all of the technological advancements are being implemented--just over time. Besides which, many of the areas in which technology would be important are likely supplemented or replaced entirely with magic: medicine, for instance.
Leaving all those arguments aside, though, I think the most chilling thing about this is the interpretation of Cutie Marks. That's... really disturbing. Very interesting, but really disturbing.
I really like this.
1573378 Well, first off, I was more going with luddites in the modern usage of the word to denote someone generally opposed to technology, as opposed to Luddites, the followers of Ned Ludd who smashed weaving mechanisms and clashed with the British army over industrialization. The Luddite movement, being based on the distinction between skilled labour and unskilled labour, as well as focusing more on optional goods (relatively) possessed a number of legitimate grievances, even if they went about the airing of those grievances in an ill-concieved method. So, as far as Twilight's proposal and Celestia's reluctance, I can actually see the value of it, given that the "weather" shortage (which, when you actually say it like that, sounds...wrong) seems not to be impacting food production, and would be more a matter of convinence.
My issue was with the original incident, as related by Luna. It wasn't a matter of Ponies having jobs versus steady supplies of a luxury item...again, assuming weather counts as that, in Equestria. Let's assume for the sake of the arguement that it does, and the food supply is, during the modern time, secure. The original incident was a matter between some Earth Ponies no longer being needed to produce food...and there not being enough food to go around. One can argue back and forth about the benefits and hazards of automating, say, automotive manufacture, or shoe production, etc, etc, because at the end of the day, no one is going to die because they don't have a car, or a particular kind of shoe. Insufficent food spplies, conversely, ARE a life or death matter. So, in that instance...Celestia and Luna going into full-on vengeful goddess mode to supress the rebellion would not be akin to Nightmare Moon/Tyrant!Celestia (I refuse to use Nightmare Flare, it ruins the Night-mare pun thing Luna has going) issues, since they are focusing on the good of the majority of the populace by ensuring the ready availability of food for all of their subjects, over the mad demands of a few who've been replaced.
Also, argueably, even by stepping in and siding with the rebels, Celestia still imposed tyrannical rule, in that she's now, again, forcing the Unicorns and Pegasii to accept STARVATION. I'd question how that squares with your option that she acts for the good of her subjects? If it were merely a matter of opposing unilateral rule, she'd have let things play out without interference...let's face it, a combined force of aerial Pegasii and Unicorn casters, against Earth Ponies can only end one way.
1573339
I'll give you a modern day example to go along with what you said: Self Scan Checkout lanes.
When they first began popping up, everyone was screaming that it would result in loss of jobs. Stores that had unions actually saw the stewards go to battle and threaten strikes because they assumed it would mean no more cashiers.
But a funny thing happened... you need people to run the machines. You need techs to repair them. You need employees to fill them up with cash. In the end, MORE jobs were created because of new technology... and prices went down and wait times went down too.
1573549
Why not? Your argument about training has been heard before... they screamed it in all the auto plants because it would mean a loss of jobs. And yeah, it will mean a loss of jobs... but does that mean EVERYONE ELSE should suffer just because a handful of people/ponies (who, as noted in this very story, can't get the job done) might be sad?
Sorry, but now.
Yes, sometimes the wheels of progress are greased with the blood of the innocent. But to stop the wheels is to make roadblocks with everyone else.
Can't say I agree with all this story has to say about cutie marks, ponies' places in society, and more, but it was well written and quite readable as a worldbuilding piece, so it gets my approval anyway.
I do want to say, because I fear you might get a bit sad by what I and others have said... that it is a good story. If it were terrible or even modestly good then we wouldn't bother to respond. You should be proud of this story... even if we disagree with the theme.
Trust me... I've taken plenty of lumps with my stories... it can be troubling to see so many 'negative' reviews but, for the most part, people are attacking the idea, not how you wrote it.
1573274
The Empress protects.
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1573339
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>>Go to bed when story has a few comments, a couple favourites, and has fallen off the front page.
>>Expect to see not much more response until other fics have been put up
>>Wake up and get on PC before work
>>See over 150 notifications waiting for me
>>Sit there stunned for a few moments until featurebox rolls over to show this fic
>>Die.
Wow. Just... wow.
Thank you everyone who has read, favourited or commented on this. :) I was not expecting anything like this kind of response for my first fic on the site, especially one I was a little iffy about myself.
Reading all the comments and arguments has definitely provoked a lot of thought as to how much this would actually hit Equestria. As many people have said, and I really didn't focus enough on, yes, Celestia and Luna are stuck in the past somewhat here. Taking only the ponies we see on the show, it's really quite difficult to see how the labour force could be cut down further than it is - after all, the primary food-providing orchard for the town is run entirely by only two and a half able-bodied ponies (who, by the way, seem to be pretty permanently short on bits). Any advent in farming technology would be extremely unlikely to lower that number. The town is small enough that we don't see a lot of competition at all.
I was definately making the assumption when I wrote this that pony magic is quite prevalent and important towards all the ways ponies replace natural processes, and my headcanon assumes that pony magic - earth, pegasus or unicorn - works much, much better with things related to your special talent. In short, as a lot of people here have stated, I'm making special talents a lot more important than the show seem to suggest - but this may again be a throwback to a thousand years ago, when everyone might have been needed to use their special talents for the good of the nation.
Did Celestia make the right choice to put things back to the way they were instead of putting down the rebels? Maybe not. Remember though that this is a magical land of harmony and rainbows, and has to stay that way because Discord is not just a worrying concept but a physical being who can wreak havoc on society. This was not too long after the sisters took charge, which means that not only would she have been comparatively inexperienced at governance (and there was always the possibility of the unicorns taking back the sun and moon if she was overthrown) - it was also probably not long after Discord got stoned the first time - that would have been fresh in her mind as she watched Equestria sit on the brink of war.
Has she made the right choice since then? I don't know - my consideration of the metaphysics of the universe only goes so far before there are too many factors to consider, and as has been pointed out, I'm neither an economist or a sociologist. But if it was the first real disaster that they faced after taking office, then it is likely one of her few points of true fear and paranoia, even a thousand years later. Stagnation is a real threat to any society that has unchanging leadership - I know that in many fields of science at least, major leaps of progress are often made when older scientists who hold tight to old theories die and make way for new blood and new ideas.
Frantic justification of my headcanon aside, having read everyone's thoughts and considered it further I'll definately agree that it's not an entirely realistic situation and either needs a lot more information or a fair bit of updating details. The thing I agree most with was that the ending was weak - I actually really didn't have a strong idea of where I wanted to end it when I started, just trying to examine the system. I wasn't happy with it at all, but without expanding it into a longer piece with Twilight trying to fix the system, I really wasn't sure how to push it. The focus on 'Being Special' was actually something I only came up with right at the end as I was considering the final lines, and edited the rest accordingly. :)
So all in all - thank you again everyone for bringing this up to the featured box, and for giving me a lot to think about in my world creation and writing in future. I hope you've enjoyed debating the subject as much as I have, and sorry I couldn't individually respond to comments!
1573388
Firstly, no Monarch can ever be truely benevolent. Celestia and Luna will undoubtedly have a darker side to their role as leaders. Celestia particulay, because, let's face it, she's a Tyrant. She has a taste for excessive punishments to her enemies (Nightmare Moon & Discord) and seems to neglect her kingdom quite a bit, leaving all the biggest problems in the hooves of the Mane 6, and I don't like the way she treats the ponies all that much, particularly Twilight.
I invite you to look at the evidence in detail.
Firstly, The princess is missing when Nightmare Moon arrives, totaly failing to protect her kingdom when it needed her the most. Instead, It falls to the untried and youthful team of six friends to do all the heavy lifting to defeat Nightmare Moon at last. In the final confrontation, Nightmare says fairly implicitly that Twilight and her friends don't understand what they're up against or what they're doing. Twilight takes this as a threat, but this could have been a warning as well, to avoid jumping to conclusions in the heat of battle. When, against all odds, they do manage to subdue Luna, Celestia appears from nowhere to congratulate them. Almost as if all of their actions had been preplanned. In the ensuing battle over the Elements of Harmony, Nightmare Moon's power is broken and she reverts to a childlike form (despite her being the same age as her much more mature appearing sister) and Celestia demands that Luna repent. She does so, weeping into her sister's mane. This may be due to her magical assault by the elements, but could also have to do with her ultimate defeat at the hands (Or Hooves) of the pony equivalent of a bunch of pre-teens. Or maybe it's because she knows that if she doesn't bow to Celestia's commands, she'll be killed.
So at the last we see Nightmare Moon was imprisoned for undefined reasons, returned by equally indistinct events, and although she put on a show as a monster, logic suggests it was just that… a show.
Unfortunately, as she always does, Celestia used guile to degrade, disgrace, and subjugate her sister.
The single consistent theme Celestia lives by seems to be destroying everything those around her hold dear and whatever dignity they believe they possess. Take the six main characters, for example.
Twilight Sparkle considers herself well read, rational, a favorite of Celestia's and likes having things neat and ordered. In response to this Celestia orders her to make friends in a new town, specifically in the vicinity of a group of well-meaning but neurotic ponies with deep psychological issues, issues that literally drive her to drink. These friends are also guaranteed to throw a monkey wrench into her careful plans, destroy her property, and make demands on her time. As for her coveted rationality, superstition runs rampant throughout the valley and every pony seems to have a mob mentality in moments of crisis, ignoring her increasingly frustrated attempts to explain things scientifically.
She is also a magic user, forced to find a place in a town which is proven time and again to look down on or ignore magic. As for being Celestia's favorite (and still only) student, Celestia never addresses her directly unless she's cornered, never visits, corresponds via letters despite living in a castle a few miles outside of town, and in the final episodes of the first season stands directly beside Twilight while she talks with other people or overlooks her entirely. All the better to put Sparkle in her place.
Rainbow Dash considers herself athletic, has a dream of being in the Wonderbolts, and prefers action to inaction. Celestia keeps maneuvering Rainbow Dash into situations where physical effort is either a detriment or unneeded. When Celestia sends the six to wake up a dragon and send it away (a task she mysteriously does not see to herself) Fluttershy proves to be catatonic when frightened, so Rainbow has to carry her and fly very slowly, much to her annoyance.
The most damning scene of Celestia destroying Rainbow's spirit is when she is given an honorable mention award for rescuing Rarity during a flying match. (A match in which Celestia completely failed to intervene in when one of her subjects was, quite literaly, falling to her death). Rainbow is seen flying off with members of the Wonderbolts… But in later episodes, still longs to be part of the same corps. Apparently the award was just for show: another indication that all rewards only come from Celestia herself and her subjects are powerless without her approval. No-one is allowed to achieve their dreams no matter how much effort they exert. At the Grand Galloping Gala (Celestia's most insidious scheme to date.) Rainbow is allowed to approach from a distance the Wonderbolts, even while wearing her honorary headband, but Celestia doesn't lift a hoof to introduce her and leaves her to pass a lonely evening in quiet desperation.
Now comes one of Celestia's most despicable acts: The way she deliberatley tortures poor, innocent Fluttershy.
Fluttershy Is a gentle soul, shy, animal lover and so paralyzed by fear she faints with her eyes open.
Like clockwork, Celestia insures that this humble naturalist is put into situations involving great danger. Dangerous animals are her favorite torture as Fluttershy is then required to go along on expeditions to calm them despite her terror because of her empathy with the fauna world. One of Celestia's crulest acts is allowing Fluttershy to care for her dying pet phoenix, not informing Fluttershy why it appears sick in the first place, saying nothing on the subject...up until the bird actually bursts into flames, causing Fluttershy's heart to break.
The true erosion of Fluttershy was seen at the Grand Galloping Gala, where she was allowed into an extensive garden she's always wanted to visit but for no apparent reason the animals flee her in terror. This provokes the serene Pegasus into a psychotic rage at being ignored until she is a raving, mud smeared, wreck. One wonders, not without cause, whether the animals had been told in advance to ignore Fluttershy, to create the conditions for her breakdown, all for Celestia's entertainment.
Rarity s industrious, elegant, romantically inclined towards Celestia's nephew. Again, Celestia delights in setting up events that require Rarity to work herself to exhaustion, such as multiple consecutive fashion shows and ballroom parties. As Rarity is apparently the only seamstress in town this seems deliberately cruel. Many fashion icons also are invited to the town, but each seems to be snobbish and scornful Rarity's work offhand, plummeting her fragile self-esteem. Overworked and underappreciated, her generosity in the face of coordinated unfairness is a true testament to her character. At the last Rarity, when she meets Celestia's nephew she's had a long standing crush on, discovers he's a complete asshat without the basic decency of common courtesy. Why Celestia invited him to the Gala, and why she doesn't discourage his behavior are more indications he's a carrot specifically chosen to be dangled before Rarity, before being pulled out of her grip at the last moment for a laugh.
The true sign of Celestia's dark side is when Rarity, imbued with butterfly wings, competes at the Pegasus flying championships, but the spell wears out and she spirals to her doom. The Wonderbolts wing after her without hesitation, but Celestia remains in her seat despite possessing powerful wings. Even her ever-present winged guards stay where they sit. Does she simply not care, or was she enjoying the spectacle? You can almost imagine her guards preparing to leap to the rescue, and the cold command forcing them to do nothing.
Pinkie Pie enjoys parties, and prefers a casual atmosphere to a ceremonial one. Pinkie is her own worst enemy with her addiction to parties apparently causing mental paralysis when they are denied her, to the extent of hallucinations, multiple personality disorder, and even involuntary muscle twitches. Because of this perhaps Celestia hasn't focused her wrath on this pony, except for one specific event that seemed tailored to her degradation. Twilight is given two tickets only to the Grand Galloping Gala and seemingly has to chose two of her five friends to attend. The others have reasons to go, but Pinkie's reasoning is based on the fact that first and foremost it's a party, the best one ever.
While the remaining four basically want to take advantage of the attendees, Pinkie is overjoyed at the prospect of her major defining characteristic and only goal in life made manifest. To deny her that would seem particularly cruel.
In the end Celestia's excuse for sending two tickets is 'You could have asked at any time' which is the punch line to her sick, sordid joke, played on all six of them. In the final episode of the first season Pinkie Pie does get to finally attend the party. She finds it to be a boring social gathering with classical music. Where she got it into her head it would be a raucous celebration is left to the imagination, but it's not impossible that a certain princess planted the idea in her mind.
Applejack is a hard worker devoted to her apple business and level-headed. Celestia always turns a blind eye when Applejack is either being praised for her celebrated deeds in the valley or working herself to a state of extreme exhaustion. Had her friends not intervened, it is not too impossible to imagine that she might have actualy worked herself to death. In the former case, the ponies are often praising Applejack for rescuing them from disasters like stampedes, so much so that they actually form a committee and hold a ceremony to present her with an award. In the past for events like the Pegasus flying championship, Celestia arrives to give it her blessing. But when a local hero is honored she doesn't put in an appearance or provide anything to suggest she even pays it any mind.
Conversely when Applejack periodically lets her stubbornness get the better of her and becomes crazy with work, Celestia is nowhere to be seen even given that the apple orchard seems to main source of food for the valley and stunted production would be clearly noticeable by a responsible leader. At the gala, Applejack is allowed to advertise her wares, but the guests are too prudish to accept country products. Coupled with the fact that only a select group of ponies are invited to the Gala at all, its suggested that Celestia holds her court and parties mostly for a rich and high born audience from another kingdom, and she invites the local in just to mess with both classes at once.
Furthermore, Celestia seems to delight treating all of her subjects in a degrading fashion. Celestia has wings and a magical horn, yet she's carried everywhere on a chariot drawn by four guards. Perhaps even more disturbing is the fact that her Pegasus guards are always frowning and do not speak or move when addressed. This suggests some kind of intense training program, instilling absolute obedience and basically depersonalizing her minions until they become literal living weapons. The other ponies express fear when told her guards will even stop by to look for someone, so it can be construed they are rough, destructive, and maybe even violent.
Celestia has also been absent for every major disaster or enemy that has struck the kingdom. When the Ursa Major rampaged through a defensless town, she didn't even show up after the attack that left several homes leveled. When Trixie arrived and began tormenting and threatening her people, she did nothing to stop her. Perhaps Trixie's behaviour amused Celestia in some way?
Likewise, a rampaging hydra and a cockatrice have nearly killed ponies and turned them to stone, but Celestia has never sent her elite guards to clear the Everfree Forest, leaving her subjects in constant peril, for her own amusement. Events and rituals of the kingdom seem designed to create contention and discord, and to further degrade her subjects. Traditional races include many bizarre and dangerous events, social functions usually have an element of fierce competition, and other events like Winter Wrap up specifically exclude ponies of a certian class or discipline.
Celestia is referred to as a 'princess' but there has never been seen a queen or a king. This suggests Celestia is either remarkably powerful for her rank, or she chose the title herself because it made her sound younger, and there is no other royalty. It could be assumed, therefore, that Celestia has deliberatley removed all evidence of her family even existing, aside from Luna. One shudders to think what may have happened to the rest of her family.
In instances of Twilight delivering letters to Celestia, she is always seen in some kind of leisure activity: sitting on her throne, reading books, taking a bath. Apparently, despite all her absences, Celestia has plenty of free time. The famous 'tea' sequence shows that Celestia is not above messing with well-meaning ponies. When the Cake family fills her tea cup as she empties it, she deliberately pretends to drink from her cup so that it overflows when refilled, deliberatley embarrasing the Cakes infront of their guests.
With her sister banished, she one not only the kindom but also the sun and the moon. She is practically god, and has obtained this position by exiling her own flesh and blood. I think that Luna was lucky to have survived.
The Grand Galloping Gala shows just how twisted Celestia can be.
-Celestia holds balls and parties at great expense, but she doesn't even enjoy them.
-Celestia chooses ponies to attend not based on merit but based on how much their neurosis and bumbling amuse her.
-Celestia is willing to stand by and watch her guests plunge into manic depression so they will be driven into destructive frenzies for her own entertainment.
-Celestia will watch as guests are hurt, nearly killed, and even as her own Palace falls down around her ears, just so she won't be bored at a social function.
In conclusion Celestia implicitly states that the happiness, comfort, self-respect, the very LIVES of her subjects mean less to her then amusement. This is the mark of an unabashed tyrant.
Celestia is not just apathetic, not just shortsighted, not just lazy and unfeeling and unjust, but she is unremorsefully evil... BY HER OWN ADMITTANCE!
For now, however the golden helmed guards roam unchecked, the 'lessons' continue to become more and more deadly, and the lives of the six blameless ponies remain the playthings of the being of true malevolence lurking in their midst.
(And I got all this from just one season. Horrifying, isn't it?)
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Carpe Diem, Noctem Vincere!
1573339 I think it's fair for you to believe that Celestia is wrong about what would happen, but she has a plausible reason for it, and Luna's story makes sense for 1000 years ago when everyone was used to a constant struggle to survive and the tribes still didn't really trust each other.
Twilight and Luna even note that normally things would work exactly like you say.
And peasants used to revolt over things like this all the time in the real world; they just always got crushed.
I think Celestia's wrong, sort of. Ponies going insane because they can't use their cutie mark (or because it fails them somehow) is shown over and over in the show, but it doesn't have to be used as their job, because you see plenty of ponies whose cutie marks have nothing to do with their job (like, say, Pinkie Pie -- throwing parties is her *hobby*).
On the other hand, Celestia isn't slowing Equestria to a stop. Just to a ridiculous extent.
It's totally going to end up being a 3rd world backwater if technological progress works anything like in the real world.