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The paragraph about the dragon is a summary of The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant by Nick Bostrom. Thanks to Antsan, blackpaws, and GhostOfHeraclitus for scolding me for giving up on this story, and to Pre-reader 63.546 for giving an incredibly detailed review.
Re-reading it now, I see nothing but the awkward parts: The thoughts that meander to the side instead of moving towards the goal, the dubious interpretation of how immortals think, the over-long flashback, the inadequate explanation of Titania's agenda, the odd scene with Luna. I suspect this is one of those stories I'll be embarrassed by ten years from now. But that's future Bad Horse's problem!
I have a completely-different, Twilight-POV story in the "Celestia at Twilight's deathbed" genre in No Regrets.
Seems like Celestia can't handle losing Twilight and is using logic to convince herself that it isn't completely about her feelings with her suicide note.
There are a few Twilight takes over as a Princess but this interaction and reasoning is the first I could actually see happening in canon.
Ah, I see you added a few paragraphs. They don't do much for me, but they aren't disruptive, so I think it's fine.
One thing though: I don't get the whole "logic - goal in life" dilemma or whatever one should call it.
Wanting something, anything at all, never is a question of logic. Logic isn't made of content or goals, it is made of rules to operate on sentences to decide whether they are true or not. A goal takes the same role as an axiom - calling it *illogical* does not have any meaning at all.
Maybe I misunderstood something? Hm...
A fascinating and unique story that, in its own way, asks more questions than it answers. Who are the Princesses really? What are these equations? Who is the Queen? It won't be answered, of course; this story stands best as a one-shot. However, it is a genuinely thought-provoking bit of wariting that addresses the immortal's view of death in a way that I haven't seen done before on this site or even elsewhere (in fact, the only attempt I've seen before is Tolkein's attempt to describe the Elves view of human mortality).
A nice bit of work!
Damn. That ending.
At first I was like "Celestia, what the hell are you doing?". And then she explained her reasons and instead I was like "Celestia, why are you so goddamn right all the time?". I probably don't have to tell you this, but she is! She's totally motherfucking right. At best she's only ever going to understand how the world works, and be so very angry when it isn't fair. But Twilight Sparkle... despite what seems obvious, Twilight Sparkle does have faith, or at least a willing suspension of disbelief. She believes in the people who made things how they are. She believes not just in understanding, but in understanding everything, and being satisfied with the answers.
She's going to be a better student than Celestia ever was.
And then she's going to surpass her teacher... at which point there will probably be hell to pay.
But that's another story.
Image: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loz9s1y7AE1qmxliwo1_1280.pngTake my likes and my fav's, damn you!
Ah, I've been waiting for this. It's a lovely affecting piece and it fits my sensibilities.
There isn't going to be a sequel, I know[1], but in my mind there is. It involves certain ponies out to find this Queen Titania with an aim to render manifest their displeasure at the state of affairs she brought about. Violence may be involved.
Oh, and I spy that it is in the featured box. Congratulations!
[1] For the best of reasons. It works best as it is -- sad, ambiguous and tense. More words would dilute it.
Image: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m52qu5L0yC1qgwfad.gifAlright. Okay.
*composes self*
I am a strong believer that immortality is a curse. Twilight would have to outlive the rest of her very best friends, which means watching them die. I doubt she could have lived with immortality for very long.
(Think about that sentence very carefully.)
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. 
It's difficult to do a "letters" story well, yet you've done it here. Too often these letter / diary / journal stories are kneejerk kitsch which can barely contain the plotless manipulation they're about to attempt. It's worse when it's an Alternate Universe tale. Instead you've given us something concrete to hold onto while we see the letter unfold, and the hints you drop about background events are paced and placed perfectly - they fill in just enough backstory to keep us tantalized without taking away from the ongoing narrative. Very, very well done!
I liked this one, and I think you hit the right balance in terms of length. It didn't affect me emotionally as much as some of the other commenters here, but that's probably because it's my headcanon that Twilight could become omnipotent given enough time. And now she has all the time.
I find it interesting that Celestia thinks that Twilight would take the situation better than her; Twilight might be better at achieving emotional distance, but she's spent her life as a mortal Equestrian and she's not so cold as to dismiss the problems highlighted. Or maybe that was the plan all along.
The comparison of mortal coping mechanisms to a malevolent (or perhaps just indifferent) dragon was nice. I've heard a more general version involving people being hit on the head with sticks and manufacturing "benefits" of said head-hitting. The mind can be a silly thing.
Also, it's nice to see Celestia angry. Doesn't happen as often as it should.
For this, and this alone, will I forgive Hasbro for not writing Celestia and Luna a more indepth backstory and leaving them as a kind of overpowered off screen ponies. It gives people the oportunity to give them the depth and feeling they truly deserve. Authors are permited to plumb the depths of these characters without having to rewrite official canon or step on anyone's preconcieved ideas. There is so much more an author can do with these two that you can't do with any of the main cast. I do understand that the main focus is on Celestia but you can always try for Luna's reaction when she reads Celestia's little note. I think that would make a great premise for the next one shot story. It could go along the lines of Celestia survives the transfer of her powers to Twilight, and how Twilight comes to terms with her not dieing but becoming Celestia's successor. We all know how Luna would react but it'd be interesting to see how Twilight would respond to not only the idea of being immortal but having to witness her beloved teacher succumb to the death that was meant for her. There could be a little of everything in it. Luna dealing with losing her sister to the sands of time, Twilight having to come to grips with eternity, and Celestia with her new, and short, life. With, of course, doing her best to get knocked up.
You have opened the door to something that could become a work of wonder and love or it could become a parasitical leech, sucking away your limited time on this earth. All you have to do is step through the door and find out. In the mean time have a moustachiod spike. 
You mad, Twilight? 
I can see where immortality would be a curse. But it's one I'd take without a second thought.
And I would do my best to enjoy every second of it. Life would be simpler, when you know, no matter how bad things are now, in 50 - 100 years it'll all blow over.
See, the problem isn't that life is so short. It's the fact that death is so much longer.
>>They speak of being reunited with their loved ones in the dragon's belly.>>
And thus vore is explained. 
Looking over Celestia's little despairing letter, I must say that, yes, she is certainly not fit for immortality. Far too emotionally affected.
I've never understood the whole 'living only in the now' thing that people have. My plans always stretch 20-30 years into the future, longer now that I've begun to unwravel biological mysteries that promise life extensions lasting centuries or longer. Almost limitless cellular regeneration IS possible! Little known to most, some organisms on Earth are functionally immortal, their cells able to return to a younger state and start over again. One is a simple jellyfish/polyp. Others are bacteria buried deep within the Earth, which may divide only once every few hundred years.
i suppose I'm simply a hyper-pragmatist when it comes to death. I see it mainly as a primitive holdover from mindless ancestors and a disadvantage to be overcome. Compared to sapient creatures, there's absolutely no point in non-sentient life being immortal. They cannot accumulate knowledge or wisdom, most can barely store a tiny fraction of a human's memory, and they have no capacity to change their world in any meaningful scope. Any other member of their species is more or less the same. An immortal spider would sit motionless in the middle of its web for a trillion years, as immobile as a rock, simply waiting for some fly to wander in and activate its genetically coded instincts. Non-intelligent life is the epitomy of purposelessness, for it cannot even begin to fathom a means by which to ecape its limitations. And when the star about which the mindless denizens of a planet goes nova, they are utterly erased from the universe, leaving nothing to note they ever existed in the first place.
Once a complete mind emerges, then it's time to begin shedding the primitive biology of death. I find a great deal of fascination with the mind, and its capacity to leap far beyond its own limits. If we wished to project some anthropic character to the universe, one might say that the universe has given rise to minds to escape its own fate, whether that be heat death, a big rip, or something we haven't even postulated yet (given we know nothing of dark matter and dark energy, other than theory, and that those two forms of matter make up the bulk of the universe, I feel we have a long way to go to considering the universe's mysteries solved). What animal can look to the future and comprehend such things at such incredible time-scales? And yet, we have done so.
I have found more often than not that the 'here-and-now' arguments Celestia poses on how mortals live are incomplete. Mortals often limit themselves, for the simple fact that they fear understanding. It's too big for them. It terrifies them. I have witnessed this many times when I explain these things in detail. They hide in ignorance because the universe makes them feel so insignificant. They lock themselves in a tiny room of their own construction and tell themselves it's all there is. When taken out, they are like my old cockatiel when I let him out of his cage. Fearful, distrustful of the great world they know nothing of. Like the bird, they quickly clamber back behind their bars where they feel secure.
It is true indeed that 'fear is the mind-killer, the little death', for it precedes the great death. And, biologically, it's actually been demonstrated that severe states of fear trigger excitoxicity that kill neurons. It may be that this is one reason people with severe anxiety are very sickly. Their bodies are literally dying from fear. But that's an aside from the more metaphysical aspects of my little diatribe here.
To put it bluntly, I am more than ready for immortality. I have a universe to explore. I have worlds I wish to mold with my own hands, plans that take eons to complete. And living forever would literally give me all the time in the world.
Image: http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/LH2man/Funnees/gifsFav/clint-nod.gif
>>1235699 I am an odd one. But then, so are all biologists. I was told at least a little madness was a prerequisite for the job. 
But who can try to grasp the furthest bounds of life, death, time, and space and not go insane? Being ALREADY insane is quite an effective buffer!
I look into the universe and do not curl into a little ball. Instead I smile and think, "My my, what a big playground I have!" (Seriously, we need a Discord emoticon for statements like that! Trollestia just doesn't cover it.)
Image: http://narwhaler.com/img/gm/j/discord-troll-face-gmJJQz.jpg
>>1235641>>1235640>>1235628>>1235426>>1235094
I believe strongly that immortality could be a wonderful thing, but that isn't what this story is about. A story that was only a claim that immortality was good or bad would just be propaganda. I chose the topic with the idea of writing propaganda, something to counter the tide of "immortality is a curse" ponyfic, but I wasn't able to. I had to tell a story, about characters, and that meant finding a dramatic situation, then trying to get into their heads and imagine how they would feel about it. They got distracted and didn't stick to the plan. I'm chagrined that so many people read the story as yet more pro-death fiction, but that's okay. This is not a medieval morality play. Or, if it is, it's about the relationship between reason, emotion, and goals, and has no neat conclusion.
>>1235195 Yes - Celestia is rationalizing. Not that I'm judging her for that. She's also right, if Titania is right; but being right isn't what matters most to her.
>>1235462 >Instead you've given us something concrete to hold onto while we see the letter unfold,
The scenes about Pinky and Jigsaw? They were originally short summaries. The EqD pre-reader made me expand them, kicking and screaming. It might have been the right thing to do. (This should appear on EqD any time now.) This story was a tricky balance between ideas and emotions. Too little emotion and most people would find it dry; too much emotion and the ideas would be buried. The first draft, finished in June, was just a letter. It was 2000 words, and idea people loved it, and most people (the other 95%) hated it. The second draft was the letter in a longer narrative, about 3000 words. Idea people thought it was a little long, but now 50% of my test readers could finish the story. Now it's 4300 words, and idea people like Antsan find it long, but most people can stand to read it.
>>1235197 A goal takes the same role as an axiom - calling it *illogical* does not have any meaning at all.
I agree. If you're talking about when Celestia talks about having or not a "logical reason" - I was trying to hint that Celestia was suspecting her real reason was not, at bottom, logical. You can of course have logical reasons given a goal.
>>1235762 Well, I wasn't really commenting on that. I didn't see it as a direct 'immortality is a curse' story, more like a commentary on how some cannot mentally handle it. Though I do feel canon Celestia is quite adapted to the mortality of her little ponies.
Most of my comment was based around my idea of the rejection of thinking like a mortal, and an explanation of why most are only willing to think in mortal terms. It doesn't encompass all the concepts involved, but it does for those that relate most directly to this story.
I use a 'fox and grapes' analogy for those fics which are truly 'boo-hoo immortality makes me emo!'. The author in those types of stories is more often than not trying to overcome to overcome a seemingly unreachable desire for immortality by making it sound undesirable. Those fics totally ignore the adaptability of the mind, and the fact that many people are able to live on in spite of losing many family and friends. One has only to think of the Holocaust to truly understand the potency of the human spirit to struggle on in spite of horrendous torment.
And now some trolling, because I have to... Dragon Queen Titania sucks! RAR!! I hate dragons! I shall find a cold iron blade impregnanted with magical super-nova rays and kill the horrid monstrosity! Mammals 4EVAR!!
This was really good! I like how you discussed the Historic Death Meme in a ponyfic, as well as the deconstruction and implications of Celestia's immortality.
I found the parallel to human existence especially compelling. It does seem to be the case that much of life is often lived as a "leaf drifting on a stream".
Speaking as an "idea person," I can see where you're drawing things out to make it more accessible (the flashback with Pinkie in particular), but I don't think this would've held together if it were just the letter. Without Celestia's interaction with Luna and Twilight, this would be a soliloquy, not a story. That might work to convey your argument, but since you're explicitly trying to do more than that, I'd say the later versions are an improvement.
Nicely done on this one, Bad Horse. I suspect that this has now become my new standard for "Everybody's Old And Dying, Let's Muse For A While On The Nature Of Mortality" oneshots, and goodness knows it's a crowded genre. I'd be nice for Celly if the forecasted power-transference simply stripped her mortality and let her actually live for a while rather than just killing her stone-dead in the Magic Faerie Circle / Lost Horizon style, but as in the case of all regrets: we always have a choice, it's just that sometimes we made it already a long time ago, and it sounds like that's what we're dealing with here.
I know how she must feel. My OC who is an Ancient from the Stargate Universe who ends up becoming a Nobody from the Kingdom Hearts Universe is immortal and is over 50 million years old and due to being around that long, he has seen friends and family grow old and die while he still lives. Suicide is not an option for he would not die. Celestia and Luna, I feel for you.
... You're serious? This is like a huge cliff hanger. How the heck is Twilight going to react to this? Or this queen character Celestia is writing too. Twilight's dying of old age, and is about to receive a huge gift (or curse I guess, depending on your view of immortality). Heck, this feels like a prologue chapter, and not a complete story.
>>1235641 I am (overpopulation concerns aside for the sake of the argument, because those change everything) very positive on the whole immortality thing, but "living in the now" is what i would be longing for. I imagine it must be so much easier when there is not pressure on you for getting things done quickly. I don't understand planning far into the future very well - only 1 year from now I am going to be a very different person and I think I would be stupid to make all to concrete plans for that person.
And to the whole "purpose" thing: Who cares? The universe doesn't - you do. The immortal jellyfish is just an occurence, a phenomenon of the universe we live in. Immortality isn't "wasted" on it. It just is.
>>1235779 I think this comic is a summarization of some fiction on here. Basically it says that nothing lasts forever, so every moment and event in your life is unique and beautiful in its own way.
>>1235641 A fellow transhumanist (or transponyist?), glad to see representation. /)
>>1235762 I love the arguments you raised in favor of the counterpoint - mortality DOES breed irresponsibility towards future generations; why try to make the world a better place when you can die fat and happy and pass on your massive debts to whoever will be around after you leave? This is one of the major problems eating away at human civilization right now.
I think most of those medieval morality tales were written under the assumption that a certain human-equivalent-to-Celestia is going to return and rapture all the worthy people and/or bring about the eternal kingdom of whatever before nature calls in the debts.
While i must say i found the story itself mediocre (not because of bad writing or anything, more beacuse of some personal views of characters that would be hard to explain,(making it probably very good from an "objective" viewpoint, therefore T-up from me)) you can count me heavily in in the "immortality is wonderfull" camp
While i can see some arguments against immortality, most boil down to two things
1."its bad because you alone have it", where the real problem is not the imortality but the mortality of others, and the solution should not be to kill yourself but to try to make everyone immortal, so if anything this only crops up in cases where its strictly limited and attempts to resarch and spread it have been made and failed
2. "its against the natural order", which gives the interesting question of what natural order means, as strictly speaking anything more advanced than banging rocks together in a cave could be considerd unnatural depending on the definition. Sometimes its "because some god said so", but that runs into its own problems depending what exactly that god is and what authority it has (a truly omniscient one might have a point here)
Most others concern themselves either with minor enviromental/societal concerns and side effect (overpopulation etc.) which have little to do with the actual question, personal psycology (you only appreciate life because its limited) which is a personal opinion and no one here is talking about forcing immortality on someone who dosent want it, which indeed might be morally very ambigous (as celestia in the story) or arguments which shouldnt crop up at all if you mange not to get the most braindamaged variations of immortality (aka you might want to die one day, so leave some loophole about dying open, and try to avoid such traps as eternal life without eternal youth, but again thats only side effects, mostly stacked on by stories who want immortality to be bad)
Addendum:
"But the afterlife..." All these arguments fall apart unless it can be solidly proven that an afterlife both exists and is in some sense better then the current world, but if that is both true we run into the question why we shouldnt just all kill ourselfs right now. The posibility of true resurrection magic/technology might also crop up once an afterlife is solidly known to exist.
Edit: Also to the last one, anyone who argues for an eternal afterlife should be aware that they are in fact arguing for immortality, just in a different form/dimension or something.
Yes, I'm serious. From my perspective the entire story is Celestia's decision; anything before or after that point would take away from the impact of the letter she's writing and the feelings and emotions she's putting into it at that point.
I like your argument. I too want to go off and explore the universe. It's a desire that got a huge boost when I saw the Millennium Simulation Project, visualising the structure of the universe. The enormous scale of the thing almost drove me to despair because I knew I'd never get to see it with my own eyes. I'd jump at the chance at immortality. There are things I'd do that would take a lifetime to complete, but I don't know if there's much point to doing them if I wouldn't get to appreciate them afterwards.
I'm less keen on the transhumanist stuff, though. There's always that little niggling bit of doubt at the back of the brain that says "would it still be me?" I'm really rather attached to my soggy grey bits, though I think I could get over it if there were some way to replace it one neuron at a time over a period of time. That seems more natural somehow, like replacing bits of a brush.
>>1236132 I don't think overpopulation is a minor concern. Before you solve that problem immortality means either that we cannot have children anymore or our resources get so incredibly thinly spread that there is no point in living anymore. Overpopulation means that there aren't enough ressources to accomodate everyone.
>>1236157 I always thought that replacement by expansion and natural cell death would be the way to go. "Machine Man" was very elightneing in a way, as this was the first time I even considered that there was an alternative (not that I would consider that one).
I believe strongly that immortality could be a wonderful thing, but that isn't what this story is about. A story that was only a claim that immortality was good or bad would just be propaganda. I chose the topic with the idea of writing propaganda, something to counter the tide of "immortality is a curse" ponyfic, but I wasn't able to. I had to tell a story, about characters, and that meant finding a dramatic situation, then trying to get into their heads and imagine how they would feel about it. They got distracted and didn't stick to the plan. I'm chagrined that so many people read the story as yet more pro-death fiction, but that's okay. This is not a medieval morality play. Or, if it is, it's about the relationship between reason and emotion, and has no neat conclusion.
I didn't really take it as 'pro-death', and you did a good job of getting into their heads. I can see the characters acting and saying what you had them do or say. Sorry if you took it that way. (my comments tend to improve and get clearer as I drink more coffee 
)
I liked that you had Celestia's letter to the Queen admit that she, (Celestia) disappoints her by being too protective of the ponies. And her admitting that it even holds their races back. And comes across as sorry about it, but sick of the rule books, the equations, and expectations that were placed on her.
Also, the way she felt like she missed out on something, life as it turns out, because of who and what she is. Now, she decided to go into uncharted waters, and is scared. But determined to try. Just as Twilight was often scared but still determined. And just like the ponies, she feels more alive now. And is having fond memories of Jigsaw, while playing 'what if?'
Knowing there's an end does effect one's view, if you lost everything tomorrow it would devastate you. If you knew you had centuries, if need be, to rebuild, it becomes just a bother. Really, I think you could say the mortals affected her more than she did them. And taught her things, without even knowing it. When you can't count on living forever, you try to enjoy the present that much more.
Mentions of 'idea' and 'logic' here, Christ almighty people, Celestia's about to die for her student. There is no logic in that, so why bother arguing the point? It's not gonna stop her, that's for sure.
This kind of story hits you hard, watching Twilight on her deathbed. Knowing that nothing lasts forever, that you have to enjoy every moment you have.
*Steel sniffs, wiping the corner of his eyes.*
It hurts, man, knowing that immortality is such a curse. Held by one who finds connections too easily made, it would obliterate the mind, make them unstable, afraid. Given to those without emotion, power is all too easy to grasp, making them tyrants. One must be of stable mind and soul in order to handle the curse of immortality. Given that question, is Twilight really the one to lead the country as an immortal? Could she handle watching her friends vanish from the country, never to be seen again beyond pictures on their headstones, never to be heard again beyond recordings of years long past?
"Well..."
"I dunno. I love my friends and everything, sure,"
"But to be immortal would mean I have all the time in the world to study!"
So you'd go back to your asocial nature, burying yourself in more books?
"You say that as if it's all I WANT to do."
"Despite what I do, I love my friends. And though nothing lasts forever, if I were made immortal, it would be used for the good of the country."
"Even if it meant giving up what I love today..."
"If it's paid in order to give a great life to those without the curse, I can suffer."
Hm...
I didnt say overpopulation was necessarily a minor concern, i said it had nothing to do with immortality itself being evil. Saying we shouldnt have immortality because overpopulation might as well say we shouldnt have modern medicine because overpopulation. It might lead to problems yes, but they arent necesesaryly tied to it. There are possible solutions (colonising other planets etc.).
Also overpopulation is already a problem in some parts of the world today (see chinas one-child policy) and so far hopefully noone is arguing that we sould let people die when it could be avoided because of that.
>>1236227 You have a point there, but ignoring the issue and saying that longer lives take priority over ensuring overpopulation won't get worse won't get us anywhere. We are at least centuries away from colonizing other planets, if it ever should become feasible at all.
I think conversation of mind rather then body might be an alternative worth considering. Miniaturization of the vessel of our sense of self and processing power... I think that might sound a bit frightening to a lot of people.
That is a good point there. Also i would argue that as death is final, it should be avoided. If we stuff our mind into computers/stasis of some sort/whatever, we can wait for science to come up with a solution. If one belives in progress to solve things in time (which so far it mostly has) it turns from "were gonna drown in overpopulation inevitably" into "we have to keep it at bay until we find the solution" (weather thats colonisation of outer space,uploading our minds into virtual reality or something else we cant even concieve of yet). Death is irreversible, most other things are (theoretically) not.
>>1236163 The only good argument I know against immortality is one rarely made: Mortality is what keeps power structures turning over. Without death, Earth would be ruled by those who are best at seizing and holding onto power. Perhaps Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, and Stalin would have divided the Old World among themselves. Or maybe we would be living in a world that resembled ancient Egypt and Babylonia more than today's world. Technology is disruptive, and hence inherently disadvantageous to those in power except when they are in competition with other powers.
However, this argument is not obviously true. Immortals may be more or less difficult to suppress. Power structure churn may depend more on technology, education, and culture than on mortality.
>>1235754 WE WILL READ ANYTHING!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!
Except this.
>>1235967 Nicely done on this one, Bad Horse.
Why, thank you, my good sir. Would you mind looking away from the monitor for a moment?
...
SQUEEEE! I got a compliment from Skywriter!
Wait a minute. Now I have no more goals. Curse you, Skywriter!
Nice story, gives you another outlook on life and death. I must say, being a mortal person, I completely disagree with the reasoning. Few comments:
1. This is depressing. I want a nice, good, happy story once in a while that's not about death and destruction. Everyone's so obsessed with death and junk.
2. Good story.
3. If I would be able to say some words with Celestia while she's alone with Twilight, I would say this:
"Hey, hey--FUCK YOU. I read your stupid letter to the Queen. You sure sound like you're not stupid, but you really act like it. All I got from it was, ['I can't handle all the death, so I'm handing this curse called immortality to my closest friend so she handles all the death for me, simply because she'll actually believe the bullshit you, the Queen, spew about a "greater future" and the "common good".'] I'd fucking bawl my eyes out if someone that close to me died, but I'd never do something so fucking selfish. *Sigh* You're deluding yourself, princess. Twilight may be a better student than you, but you'll always be a better teacher, a better leader, and a better princess. Suck up your selfish emotions and do your fucking job, because you'll rule Equestria 100 times better than that fucking Queen Titania or Twilight ever could. You may see the situation as either losing a friend or saving her while gaining what you've always wanted: short-sighted mortality. Seems like an easy choice, right? Wrong. I see it as either losing a friend, or causing her to infinitely experience the deaths of others while losing the best fucking princess that Equestria could ever have. That anyone could ever have. Don't sell yourself short, and don't sell your life short. You have a lot more good things to do in this world. Now, mourn over Twilight, she was a good student, and the best friend someone could have. But after, you will resume your duties as princess, and you will be the best fucking princess the world has ever known, like you always have.
*Salute* Goodbye Celestia, I hope to see you at the end of time, rather than never again."
4. Hooray for ignorant mortals.
I have to say, I enjoyed the little one-shot here. Though, the view on immortality that Celestia has, is that she isn't from Equestria, and was sent to lead the ponies to some type of paradise. I really don't care for it, and found that in itself as an ideal, unappealing.
However, the story as it is, was wonderfully written and I love it. You did a really good job here, and I look forward to seeing more. Here, for lack of a cupcake, have a mustache.
It's beautiful in the same quiet way Luna is beautiful.
Uh...?
Image: http://iambrony.jsmart.web.id/mlp/gif/i_proclaim_i_am_loud_by_maximillianveers-d4dlt5h.gif
Image: http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo159/Evilzinm/Moar.gifI would like to forcefully request a prequel.
Image: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qvh0HmjW1r63r28.gifI use this pic too much. But it sums up my feels too well.
>>1236157 Now to totally freak you out. Your body contains less than 20% of the same material you had 5 years ago. Your molecules are constantly cycling, always in motion! Yet your mind still seems the same, and you still consider yourself 'you'.
I'd only wish to be certain my core self remained intact. The patterns of thought and memory and decision-making that are all part of me.
Have you watched the two "Ghost in the Shell" movies? I found them interesting indeed.
It's only as big a curse as you perceive it. If you are willing to set yourself aside and love others far more than yourself, then you will bring them a much better future at cost of your self satisfying life. It's a curse in a way due to most not having the temperament to give themselves up for the good of others, truly giving themselves, mind, body, and soul so that everyone may benefit with a better future for their race. Here it seems that the "race" that Celestia is trying to benefit but could not give herself up to completely for their own eventual good is life itself. This particular part of life, the ponies of Equestria, have been kept in the dark. They live life somewhat selfishly as when they die, they have no reassurance that they will exist after that. They try to justify death even though, in this universe, it is an end to those who can't give themselves up completely to others.
Immortality would be a blessing only to those who would not wish to waste it on their own petty desires. I can completely sympathize with this twilight. Giving herself up and trying to make things better for everyone else, being a kind, loyal, generous, honest, and tolerant friend to all. There is a reason why those are the elements of harmony and why they inspire friendship. If everyone took care of everyone else, we would not need to take care of ourselves.
What point is there when you have all the time in the world? You accomplish something but then it's done. What happens when you do everything? What happens when you're perfect? That there is no way to improve yourself. What use is trying to do something when you already do it in the best possible way? The only thing you could improve in that case is something or someone other than yourself. Thus, perfect immortality would be fatal to the mortal mind set as their purpose for living would just dwindle away with each moment.
Mortals would give perfect immortals something worth doing AS WE DON'T have all the time in existence. We have such short, pitiful lives and our imperfections are numerous. They would borrow our mortality and try to convince us to understand and become better as not just a single person, but as a race and as a species. They would manipulate us to become better as our improvement could be seen as an extension of their own and thus give them a purpose and will to become better by making us become better. Relearning from our mistakes, and growing through our trials, they let themselves remember what it's like to struggle so hard to something they wanted and feel the triumph and pride as the finally reached that goal. The elation at completing a task that was so difficult for them. They already do it the best possible way without even much thought to it but what about us? We screw it up spectacularly, then we learn, then we do it again, then we learn more, and as a species we grow gradually into something great and they would get a pretty nice sense of purpose and accomplishment for helping us along and accomplishing our goals of reaching eventual immortality and maybe even perfection on the level they themselves have already reached.
Love for others always has the potential to be greater than the love for one's self. In Celestia's case, she loved them to the point where she couldn't bear to see them suffer through the pains of war and death even though that was what was necessary. Twilight might, however, if the greater good at the end of it all is worth it.
I wish there was some way I could tell you that I understand what it was you were trying to get across, but I don't know how to put it into words. I see that immortality and mortality are really the least important things here. This is about the true nature of "doing the right thing" and being strong or weak enough to do it. And I also know that, even then, that isn't the point. The point is to feel what Celestia felt as she wrote this letter about how weak she feels and how calculated she think Twilight is. This is what a story is; character explored, the mind divulged. This is amazing. If the characters escaped from you, then it shows just how alive they are in your mind. You are amazing.
>>1236288 Uhm... (is a conservative Republican)...
Please don't link transhumanism with government. Immortals would form a government unlike anything we can fathom, because they would truly be equal. With nothing to fear, intimidation fails. Despots are often themselves very fearful, cowardly individuals. If anything, it might lead to an endless war, since no side could ever lose! (The Time War?)
Saying that transhumanism (which is itself highly fractured in opinions) favors certain taxes or reforms or political ideology is to totally lose sight of what transhumanism is about.
Though, I don't believe that modern transhumanists themselves in many cases even fully comprehend the meaning behind what they espouse. A true transhumanist would not understand the need for an estate tax at all, since there would never be inheritance with immortality.
Great story. I always enjoy seeing Celestia portrayed with some vulnerability and flaws, and you've done that well here. In the end, I think she may've made the right choice. Twilight, as you've described her in this story, may be better suited to Celestia's mission than she ever was.
That is a good argument against immortality, and one I hadn't really considered. The thing that concerns me the most about it is whether a world full of immortals would become socially, technologically, and culturally stagnant. In our mortal world it's often been the case that revolutionary new ideas take hold not because those in power are swayed by them, but because the set-in-their-ways old guard dies and a new generation takes over. To preserve the vibrancy and dynamism of an immortal civilization, its citizens would need some way to keep their minds fresh, open, thirsty, and "young."
Fortunately, I doubt Twilight would have this problem. I can think of nopony better to guide Equestria toward a future in which they have the curiosity, rationality, ingenuity, perspective, and foresight to make wonderful immortals. I for one welcome the new purple pony overlord.
>>1237097 I withdraw my assertion. I hope you don't mind that I deleted it. It was a stupid thing to say anyway, since there are lots and lots of libertarian transhumanists who are probably opposed to the estate tax, on the grounds that it's a tax. (I don't think that makes sense, but... not worth getting into here.) Though you're the first I've met who self-describes as conservative Republican!
I am so cliché, I know, but I just had to listen to Queen's Who Wants To Live Forever after reading this.
And to make matters worse, I just realised that my favourite immortality story is probably a Voyager episode. Because it has nothing to do with suffering from other people's mortality. It is about being so ancient that you have nothing left to experience. Okay, the episode isn't a masterpiece, but Gerrit Graham plays the only interesting member of the Q Continuum beside John de Lancie's Q.
Back to the fic. Since we know nothing of this Titania, we can't really discuss the sense of Celestia's situation. All that is left is this moment, and one big final decision. As such, it is a really interesting read, very touching. The only part I am unsure about is when Celestia briefly loses her composure with her sister. It is probably intentional, but it is just so sudden. Still, I like your overall portrayal of Celestia. It is her.
>>1237164 I would think all transhumanists would be Conservative: Evil inhuman monsters who wish to suck the life blood of the planet dry so they can continue existing forever!
I revel in my evil.
Note: This may or may not be serious. You'll never know! Until I become emperor of the galaxy...
I am very interested. Shame it's only a one-shot, but quite frankly, I doubt there's much more you can do here. Yeah, we could see Twilight becoming an alicorn and Celestia most likely dying, but it's best, in this case, to leave the readers wondering, because a story isn't all about answering every single question, is it?
I always thought the "Immortality sucks, my life sucks, and I will write about it!" Celestia stories are a bore, mostly because it's a story in which she complains. One can find immortality a bitch or a gift, and I suppose she finds this more as the latter. But still, in my opinion, the main problem with her is not the fact she has too much emotions towards her people and can no longer cope with it; it is the fact that she may possibly not be able to accept their eventually demise. I think one can have emotions towards her people so long as she knows they cannot be around for eternity. "If you love something, set it free," was going through my mind while writing this; this is something Celestia probably can't seem to take anymore. She loves her student too much and cannot see her die when she belives she deserves immortality more than the princess does. She even risks her life to save someone she cares for deeply. She would much rather have a mortal life than one of an eternity.
I think this was written in a lovely way. You got my attention because, unfortunately, I believes this to be the overused idea I mentioned above, and wondered if this was as bad as I imagined. But I really shouldn't doubt the Brony fandom as I just did, because this is not exactly that, and is pretty good, actually. Celestia's conflict is done perfectly as she is unable to take on responsibility as an immortal anymore, and decides to pass on the torch. Nicely done.
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