For those who aren't familiar with the Lunaverse: http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=760 . It's an AU world where Celestia went evil instead of Luna. Trixie is the Element of Magic, and other background characters from the show are the other Elements. It's a shared universe started by RainbowDoubleDash, and there's plenty of other stories in it if you're interested.

Applejack, I hope you lose BIG! And I suspect even if it was one of the smaller competitions she'd object, too. Go, Carrot Top!

Yay! More Carrot Top! And Trixie - on the surface - being genuinely nice! She may have some plan, of course, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact if Trixie's managed to learn how to make genuine "everypony benefits" plans, that's be great for...well, everypony.

Two things, one minor, one Minor.

Now, in celebration of our upcomin’ victora

Pretty sure this is a typo. I say "pretty sure" because even with Applejack's country drawl, I don't think that she'd say "victora." I only point it out because her drawl actually makes the typo more noticeable.

If it weren’t fer that disaster fund, there would have been a lot more ponies without homes fer a lot longer.

This is the Minor one. The Ursa Minor didn't actually destroy homes...it was led to the center of town, wherein it proceeded to smash all the stalls that had been set up for the Eventime, but it actually didn't do any damage to any of Ponyville's homes.

(though I've been considering retconning it to have somehow destroyed Trixie's front window).

I hope this doesn't cause too many major problems...if you want to get the "major damage" idea across, it was right next to the town hall.

L!Applejack has trouble with the concept of friendly competition, doesn't she?

>>819836819836: Fixed the 'victora' typo (oops!) and changed it so that AJ's talking about broken workplaces, not homes (Luna did say thousands of bits in property damage happened, so I think that at least some buildings probably got hit pretty hard).

Glad you're enjoying it! I do like when Trixie can be genuinely nice. There may be a hidden plan (*whistles innocently*), but so far, at least, she's being quite helpful!

>>819860819860: I think she has trouble with the concept of 'friendly' in general. Business and friendship don't mix all that often with her.

You know, really, really, hope that AJ gets some sense bucked into her.  Seriously, in these stories she comes off as either a little stupid, or borderline mafiaish.  Doesn't help that the Apple Family is called the Apple Trust here.

If it doesn't happen here, I'd hope that Mane!6 AJ would do it in the crisis crossover...except that I realized that that AJ is probably almost as bad in some ways...that or Mane!Sweet Apple Acres really IS borderline in the red all the time.  (Seriously, I'm not a farmer, but if an apple farm relies on seasonal hoofmade cider sales to keep it afloat, something's wrong with their business practices...)

>>819886819886: I'm trying to portray her as sincere and at least somewhat intelligent, albeit a bit... deluded. We'll see more of this as the competition gets nearer and Carrot Top appears to have an actual chance at beating the Trust, or at least doing well enough to potentially make it harder for them to win.

As I posted on my blog, I think that M!AJ would be absolutely horrified by L!AJ. She could probably see a lot of herself in her, in a 'this is who I would be if I hadn't met my friends' way.

>>819891819891

Aye, and that's the whole point of the Lunaverse versions of the normal mane 6, visions of what they might be like had they never become close friends (minus Rainbow and Fluttershy, but even there the dynamic is very different).  But yeah, my point is that both AJs tend to act like the Acres are gonna go under every other episode she takes spotlight in, but again, for all we know IT IS, since the farm's finances have only really been given a major plot point in the Flim Flam Bros. ep.   We only know for sure its delusional to think that way in the Lunaverse because its been pounded in that the Apples have a near monopoly in this 'verse.

>>819923819923

It's a delusion that she needs to have. As the author has said, most of what makes M!Applejack tick is her need to feel indispensable. She can only maintain the illusion that she's fighting for everypony is by ignoring any evidence that suggests that she has more money than she can spend. Were she to have a million bits in the bank, she'd say that she needed a million and ONE to survive the next five minutes.

>>819867819867

Damn right they don't. After all, if she had friends, she'd have to admit that the whole world isn't depending on her and that would mean that she IS far more vain than either Rarity could ever hope to be.

This seemed to be one of the more balanced Applejacks I think I've read in the Lunaverse.  Story itself seems like it could be pretty interesting as well.  Hope you've got plans to drag the rest of the extended Apple family into this conflict as well since don't think they've been seen yet.  Anyway looking forward to the next.

>>820040820040: Most certainly. They'll show up in a few chapters. Apple Bloom, Big Mac, and even Granny Smith all have parts to play here. :-)

on behalf of the celery, peach, tomato, potato, yam, and papaya families of ponyville i salute you carrot top!

Oh, this is going to be good! A heated showdown between The Elements of Harmony and the Apple Trust, with the FlimFlam Brothers mixed in? Thou doth be writing a battle for the ages!

Duck season! Fire!

Oh man, I hope Applejack (or any of the apples for that matter) don't stoop to doing something.....dishonest to win.

>>820390820390

That'd be out of character for them, or at least AJ herself. Even in the Lunaverse, Applejack values honesty.

>>820475820475: Yeah, Applejack won't cheat. Doesn't mean she'll be what one might call a 'good sport,' however...

The basic set up for this story is looking good, and I'm eager to see were you go with it.  That said, I do have some serious concerns with just how over the top you're playing CT's poor financial skills.

I'm kinda thinking it would be better if the cost of the analysis fee was left ambiguous to the reader rather than specified as 100 silver.  More so, as that also happens to be the amount a foal was able to save over the course of a year.  I'd somewhat expect a full grown mare, even one with poor business sense, to be able to scrape that amount together for something like this.  I mean, we know that she has a luxury budget for hair care products that she can cut into if nothing else.

Furthermore, no matter how bad at business CT is, regularly selling medicinal tonics at exactly cost seems a might extreme.  At least have the poor girl making a single bit worth of profit.  Also, over on the boards we'd seemed to be leaning to BP being highly successful, so I have trouble believing her ever being short on cash to pay for them.  Oh, and I'd think a drink called the "Rainbow Dash" would be more popular as a non-alcoholic soda for kids.  The adults are probably a bit more prone to associate it with the weather captain's less respectable qualities.  Maybe go with something more generic like the "Chromatic Twister" or "Spectrum Tornado"

On other fronts.

“I was never really into gardening,” mused Trixie. “Don’t think it ever caught my eye.”

One more thing, I'm thinking it should be Sweet Apple Acres entering on behalf of Ponyville, seeing as Applejack only runs that single farm.  For a nationwide competition I'd expect many other farms associated with the Trust would be entering as well.  Actually throughout pretty much this whole chapter you seem to be treating the term "Apple Trust" as just AJs farm rather than the composite of all the farms run by her kinfolk across all of Equestria.

...

Oh, and one last thing, the intro song seems to come awfully late.  I'd probably put it at the transition between the market and town hall rather than the transition from town hall to CT's farm.

Image: http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/704a65b5c8298201d5bf89dfa0d01005/130303%20-%20animated%20big_macintosh%20brace_yourselves%20macro%20reaction_image%20shitstorm.gif

And it will be epic.

>>821298821298: Re: the bits. I think I will make it a bit ambiguous.

As for the medical tonics, I would chalk it up mostly to it not being a huge part of CT's business, and her not really having it in her to make money off of the suffering like that (this is the pony who ran into a poison joke field when there was a perfectly good pegasus right besides her; she's not always rational when it comes to suffering). If she was a full-time pharmacist, she'd charge more intelligently.

Changed the Berry Punch thing a little bit. She's still short, but not always now. This fits in better with what I want to have her do later. As for why she's short, it isn't that she doesn't have the money... Carrot Top will bring this up with her in a couple chapters.

As for the SAA/AT confusion, it's mostly due to everyone so far that talks about it being in Ponyville, where they basically mean the same thing. As far as CT and the others are concerned, SAA is the Apple Trust, or at least the only relevant part of it (plus, even though it's just SAA entering, they have the resources of the Trust behind them, so speaking of them as "the Trust is entering" makes a kind of sense). As for AJ, she thinks of herself as representing the Trust, and so refers to it and her farm interchangeably. We'll meet other Apples and their farms later on once we get to the big competish.

And lastly, for the song: this is going to be a longish story (37k or so in draft form), so I wanted to delay the song a bit.

>>823659823659

Even if she's not a pharmacist and doesn't want to profit off suffering, selling at exact cost still seems too much to me.  Yes she went in to the poison joke without thinking, but she was under a fair amount of stress at the time and quickly admitted how irrational it was.  Selling medicinal tonics doesn't appear to just be some spur of the moment decision on her part.  If she only sold them when ponies came by her house and had to mix each one up fresh to order I'd understand.  Rather, she keeps them as a regular, if side item, of her inventory.  Like I said, at least let the girl sell at cost+1, make BP short by 2 (so still cost−1) if you want CT losing on this particular exchange.

As my other complaint, I'm fine with SAA and AT being used with moderate interchangeability, but not total.  AJ should at least drop both names throughout her speech.  Mentioning her specific farm by name should be part of her good business sense if nothing else, gotta advertise after all, well, not so much when you've got a strangle hold on the local economy, but AJ tends to be blind to such monopolistic practices.  Also, meeting more Apples in later chapters is all well and good, but this is the setup chapter, things should be clearer from the start.

I know I seem to be harping the AT/SAA confusion a bit much, but this is actually something I'm starting to see as a problem.  I've seen readers who the moment anything is mentioned about the Trust in general, assume it relates in some way directly back to AJ.  That's all well and good for most stories set only in Ponyville, but when it starts effecting stories that aren't (my latest for example) it indicates something that needs clarification.  That's something we as authors should be providing.

It would also help to lessen the extreme negative opinion some readers seem to be holding AJ in.  The Trust is the one running the morally questionable produce monopoly.  AJ & SAA are just one branch of that beast, not its head.  It's heart/soul maybe, the place where it all started, but the big important decisions are probably made elsewhere.

37k words?  Already?  And you're probably going to be releasing chapters daily again aren't you?  Remind me to remind you how much I hate you please.

...

Poor Carrot Top. But at least she realizes how outclassed she is, and has a plan.

The thing I really liked about the Flim Flam brothers episode was that they were a lot more competent than that kind of villain usually is in cartoons. Their machine actually worked, at least until they turned off the ‘make the apple cider good’ switch. So I tried to keep that here. They’ve got ulterior motives, but they do know fine dining. (I see them as jack-of-all-trades; they have a little expertise in a whole lot of fields, and enough charisma and self-assurance to make that go very far).

And look, Trixie is being competent again. The ‘source’ she mentions is Octavia, from Musicians and Dreamers, although of course Carrot Top wouldn't know that. I don’t think we’ll see the cellist herself in this story, but she’s certainly still out there. Hating Trixie. :-)

This chapter got a bit long on me, but I couldn't find a good breaking point. Oh well. I hope y'all don't mind the extra words. :-)

>>824376824376: The thing about the medicine is a fair point. I've edited accordingly.

Applejack's conflation of her farm and the Trust will actually be somewhat significant later on, so I think I'll leave it the way it is now. If it doesn't work later, I'll edit it then.

And you ended just where you needed to: with Applejack sick with the megalomania and entitlement that make her an unlikeable pain in the flanks. She doesn't see that the Apple Trust isn't vital because it would mean that she isn't. It's not just about the paranoia and the need to obsess about disaster, it's about L!Applejack being so monstrously vain that she'd disgust M!Applejack.

Ah, the plot thickens...

I do like the Flim Flam bros; you're right, they did have an actual, good product to sell. Heck, they were even winning their little scam, and even before Applejack's friends got involved they had a huge lead. It's possible that they might have even still won despite Twilight & crew joining in to help. But they panicked.

Nice chapter, now for my usual longwinded lists of things I think you could be doing better.

...

...

Um...

...

Sorry, I got nothing.  This chapter was pure brilliance made manifest.  I'd make mention of every little thing I loved about it, but that list would probably be nearly as long as the story itself.

“My only kind,” chuckled Trixie. “But… uh… what idea, exactly?”

You're really on a roll with these Trixie one liners.  I know this is a CT fic, but please do keep up with this kind of stuff.

>>829213829213

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the whole AT/SAA issue, for now.  Don't disappoint me though.  The last time I trusted things in one of your stories to just get better I had to walk off in the middle of DatB.  After this wonderful last chapter, I'd hate for that to happen again.

I like where this is going.

And pardon my genre savvy, but I think I know a foolproof way CT can win. I'm wondering if I'm right or not.

>>830166830166: Win over Sweet Apple Acres, or win the whole competition? There's over 200 competitors, including multiple Apple Trust teams (which will be discussed more next chapter). Granted, SAA usually does extremely well, so being able to beat them (fairly) would imply that one would place highly, but simply destroying the SAA team (by, say, torching the orchards) wouldn't move one much closer to an overall victory.

>>830174830174

I know a way CT can win the entire thing.

If I may quote "The World Ends With You"

'When all anyone is offering is new and exciting, the best thing you can offer is old and familiar'

>>830202830202

Brilliant!! That's the strategy M!Applejack used to defeat the M!Flimflam Brothers. Having Carrot Top use it to defeat the entitled creep L!Applejack is would be perfect.

That being said, it's not as if L!Applejack has much of a choice to think the way she does. After all, she's spent her entire life having it drubbed into her that Ponyville MUST HAVE a strong Apple Trust or starve gruesomely. The idea that ponies would eat as well (or better) were she and her family to get eaten by a manticore is not one she can have.

>>829952829952

That is one half of their fatal flaw. The first half is that they are extremely overconfident and tend to inadvertently sabotage themselves as a result.

This is a great story. Poor Carrot Top :( she would have felt humiliated without any fore knowledge of the competition.

>>830202830202 Agreed!

Either that, or challenge applejack to a SLAM OFF!

TINPINCIBLE!!!!

>>832186832186

Oh god, that extra chapter.......

>>832206832206 wasn't it a LOT of fun? Plus it's the one of the only place you can access Shadow Ramen and buy stuff from them.

Gotta wonder what kind of psych you'd get out of Cutie Mark pins...  

But this is nor the place or time for such a philosophical debate.

Ah, Applejack... So close, yet so far.

As for Flim and Flam, great job with those two. And i have a bachelor's in culinary arts, so I recognized some of the stuff there. Nice job.

I dislike the consistent use of the Mane 6 as antagonists of these stories.  It ends up making it look like the L6 are being shown to be superior which annoys me.

And I don't think Lunaverse AJ is so unreasonably paranoid.  One of the key parts of their business is Zap Apples.  Something which only grow properly thanks to Granny Smith.  Who knows if when she dies anyone else will be able to give the right kind of pep talks to the jars.etc.  THey finance settlements and in at least one of these stories Applelosa failed, possibly even with deaths.  She lives on the border of Everfree which means their main farm lacks the guarenteed weather of most of the other farms.    And their was a blight in recent history.  

Think you need to slow this down and think it out a little more.  Pacing is a bit too rapid and revelations are coming a bit too quickly to be overly satisfying. Still a very nice story though.

>>830829830829

I can think of someone else who does that a lot. He's voiced by Frank Welker and spent a lot of time yelling "Decepticons!!! RETREAT!!! RETREAT!!!" because one little thing went wrong.

>>834735834735

G1 Megatron's a perfectionist, not a con artist. He reacts badly to deviations from his plans. Xanatos Speed Chess is not the guy's strength.

The Flim Flam brothers are actually comparatively adaptable when backed into a corner. Their backup plan (turning off the quality control on their machine) may not be an intelligent course of action, but at least they have one. Their problem is that they get backed into a corner as mush as a result of their own actions as by other ponies' action. They had to resort to a backup plan because they were so utterly overconfident that they casually allowed Applejack's friends to help her family with making cider for the competition, and then panicked when it looked like they actually had a chance of catching up.

>>832545832545

Her problem is one M!Applejack has to a lesser degree: she was brought up to not notice the good things in her life. Were Carrot Top to learn that Applejack can't see all of the advantages she has because she was raised to avoid optimism, she might just be tempted to give way.

Alcohol! The ubiquitous solution.

In the M-verse, it took a couple annoying and insulting salesponies to get the Apples to wager their farm. Here, it takes the promise of being able to improve the lives of all the farmers. Hopefully it’ll go as well for L-verse CT as it did for M-verse AJ.

So if BoxxyBrown, in M-verse, is a mover who was a cherry farmer one time for no reason, in L-verse he can be a cherry farmer who maybe moves something once for no reason. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Green Grape was mentioned in Boast Busted as having the idea of mixing ingredients between farms to sell more dishes, so I made her the ultra-businessy pony here. Banana Split, Red Onion, and the rest I just made up.

Kind of a bad time for AJ, realizing that the farmers she considers herself to be ‘supporting’ don’t seem to appreciate her ‘sacrifices.’ She really does believe that, because she brings in money to the town (through grants and taxes) and because she’s willing to let some of the other farmers buy her apples instead of starving, that she’s vital to the town. (I debated including a scene with her thinking something like I should let the other farms fail out, so I can buy their arable land and build the farm/the Trust up more, but I'm just so compassionate and generous that I can’t help but try to sell the farmers food so they can get by during the winter months. I took it out because it seemed over the top, but I hope that AJ’s narcissism showed through regardless).

Note: ability to answer comments will be a bit curtailed over the next couple days, due to the people in the Prague dorm not knowing how to configure Internet (which, to be fair, includes me). I'll try to respond to everyone within... two days or so.

>>832545832545: I don't think we've had an M6 antagonist since LNLD. My previous one had Octavia as the antagonist. Carrot Top of the Line didn't really have an antagonist, unless you count Angel.

AJ has many resources the others don't, though. For one, she has a huge Trust behind her that can assist her if something goes wrong. She also has more resources. What's devastating to other farmers is a minor inconvenience to her. Sure, she's not invincible, but she's a lot better off than she lets on.

>>832495832495: Glad you like it! I just love the idea of Carrot Top being all, "deconstructed what now?"

>>835484835484: That was their other big problem, yes. Had they just said, "Look, the whole point here is to see who can make more cider for Ponyville on a regular basis, so nopony can help unless they'll also help with all of the cider-making from here on," they'd have won easily.

Yikes, Carrot Top has it all on the line here, doesn't she? But I have faith in her!

(Also, I'm surprised that she doesn't think that, if the worst happened, she couldn't shack up with Trixie or Lyra or somepony).

ya find out first hand

Um...Applejack, how did you get the zebra spellbook?

I actually like Applejack in this chapter. She definitely, actually feels bad about what she's going to be trying to do...she's just going to try to do it anyway.

>>835796835796: Oops! Fixed both appearances of 'hand.'

Carrot Top is being slightly melodramatic, but she's also worried that, while she could stay with someone for a couple days, it might be a very long time before she found somewhere else to live, and she couldn't sit on Trixie's couch for two months. If this plan fails, she might wind up not only homeless, but in enough debt that any future wages she makes get garnished. Basically, she'll have no money and no way to get any for a while.

Glad that you got the characterization of AJ that I was going for. AJ isn't chaotic evil or a sociopath; she's not Snidely Whiplash; she doesn't actually want to hurt other ponies. She just believes, fervently, that it's necessary for the protection of everypony, and that she's just gotta make the hard choice.

>>835711835711

Let's not forget that L!Applejack has had it drubbed into her over the years that she has to behave this way to survive. The Trust cannot have genuine compassion in its representatives at this stage in the game. Once one of them has been ennobled, the more zealous subordinates (like AJ) will no doubt be removed in order to impress the other members of the Night Court with House Apple's benevolence but until that day, towns like Ponyville have to contend with insane monsters like her. I half-way intend to write a side story that has Braeburn and Granny Smith decide that once he gets to be Baron Braeburn, Big Macintosh can sweep in and be Ponyville's saviour.

>>835825835825

"Removed?"

...somehow the Lunaverse has come across as much, much darker than I ever intended it to be...

Also ennobling might not be an end-goal for any member of the Apple Trust. Far from it; it might be better for the Trust if they're consistantly the power *backing* some member of the Night Court rather than having any actual presence in the Night Court. The rewards are nearly as great, while the risks are far smaller.

(Also in the "Dune" parody I wanted to write but probably never will, the Apples were actually going to be the Fremen. The Bluebloods wre the Harkonnen, and Trixie was Paul, at least until the very end when the Bluebloods start acting more like Paul triumphant and Trixie has to step in as Feyd-Ruatha, with Luna standing in as the Padishah Emperor).

>>835825835825: I'm not sure I'd go that far. In particular, I have different characterizations in mind for the other Apples. Granny Smith (who'll show up in a couple chapters, once the FF brothers begin messing things), I don't see as a schemer, and she probably opposes a lot of AJ's actions, but she doesn't have the power to do anything, since she's not really in charge. As for Big Mac... well, one thing I want this story to touch on is why AJ's the prospective heir even though BM is older, stronger, and less prone to random bouts of craziness. Shouldn't it naturally be him? But maybe he's not all that fond of AJ and the Trust's direction...

I also don't think 'becoming a noble' should really be on the Trust's radar at this point. Hobknobing with them, sure, but promotion to Baron is perhaps a bit much.

>>835838835838: And, yeah, seconding RDD. No assassinations, please. Besides, it would be very bad for the company if they rewarded competence and following the Trust's direction with firing (or killing) that employee.

>>835840835840

>>835838835838

Point taken. The Trust seems to reward crazy ponies to the detriment of the Granny Smiths and Big Macintoshes of the world. I should think that at some point or another, his trying to explain that the Trust isn't within light-years of collapse was rebuffed by a comment about not caring about fancy mathematics. The comfy lie that she's indispensable isn't AS suppressed by honesty as it is in the Celestiaverse.

(As for the Apple family, part of me wants to think of them as actually being descended from Smart Cookie.)

>>835853835853: Yeah, BM has probably tried to get AJ to lighten up, but there's little hope of that.

The Trust rewards ponies that make lots of money. AJ is willing to do what it takes to do that, and is motivated by her beliefs in the absolute importance of the Trust. BM probably isn't, so much. Hence AJ is in charge.

Good solid story telling and setup.  Not the wondrous joy ride of Ch2, but nothing much I can find to complain about either.  Everypony seems in proper character.  CT is lacking in self-assurance, but determined to give it her all.  AJ is naively arrogant, but still well intentioned.  And Trixie is still, well, Trixie.

Anyway, the stakes have been laid, the competitors have been announced and led off to wait in their respective corners, now we're all just waiting for the opening bell so this 'grudge' match can get under way.

LET'S GET READY TO RUUMMMBBBBLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!!!!

...

Well I guess that declaration might be a little preemptive.  Got to get through CT's obligatory underdog in training montage sequence, plus there's whatever wrench F&F are going to through in the works, but we all know what the real main event here is.

>>835859835859

Which makes her a Well-Intentioned Extremist with Skewed Priorities. It also makes her somepony that M!Applejack fears becoming....as I'm sure will become quite clear.

>>835887835887

Now I'm envisioning M!Applejack smacking L!Applejack in the crisis crossover fic.

As for Big Macintosh, I think the big reason why he's not the heir is that while he's big, strong, hardworking, and certainly far from stupid, he's not really a businesspony. And that's what a farm like Sweet Apple Acres needs to get ahead in either 'verse.

I see M!Applejack as a fair businesspony in her own right, just not as cutthroat as L!Applejack or as dedicated to 'apple supremacy'. I honestly think that the Flim Flam brothers episode was the only time when she was in serious fear of actually losing the farm itself. For good reason I think, because a split of 25-75% in the brothers' favor would probably mean that the Apple family had spent far more money growing the apples than they would have made selling the cider.

>>836004836004: Which makes one wonder why they even offered it.

Yeah, I think M-verse and L-verse AJ would not get along very well. M-AJ would be horrified by some of L-AJ's attitudes and acts. And, I think she would see a little of herself in L-verse, which would more horrify her. She'd think, 'is this what I would be like if I was raised a little different and didn't have my friends to help keep me level-headed?'

Meanwhile, L-AJ would see M-AJ as a shirker who may have already condemned Ponyville by her laxer business practices.

>>836020836020

Oh, I think it was pretty obvious that the cider competition was the brothers' goal from the get-go. The offer was just to make it look like they had tried to be friendly first.

Using a little fridge logic, I think the ultimate goal of the M!Flim Flam brothers was to gain the farm itself, and maybe drive the Apple family into working as cheap labor.

I had the feeling that AJ was the head of the Apple Trust personally.  Sweet Apple Acres is basically one town over from Canterlot and has the one product they can legitimately monopolize and she's in charge of SAA

As for my comments about antagonists, the Mane 6 may not be the villain of the story but it seems to me they are consistently the rivals or the main obstacles of the Luna 6

>>835840835840

I didn't realize AJ was just a prospective heir.  I thought she was the boss.  

>>835853835853

As for Granny Smith, Zap Apples exist.  FiM canon states the crazy things she does is necessary to make the as good as they are.  So her not being crazy is pretty questionable

>>836089836089

Ponyville may be less than a day's journey out from Canterlot, but it's also something of a backwater hicktown built along the edges of the untamable Everfree Forest.  It's the kind of place no self-respecting pony of any class or social standing would choose to live.  Because of the zap apples, Sweet Apple Acres might be the heart/soul of the Apple Trust, but I rather think the actual head/brains of the beast is in one of the larger more populace settlements.

Ouch! Things are getting intense for Carrot Top. Like the way things are progressing. I also like the fact that the other farmers had a point. And that Applejack, while something of an antagonist isn't a villian. You can tell that she isn't a bad pony. She just has a rather skewed view of the world combined with a rather paranoid and self-centered attitude.

>>836004836004>>836020836020

She and Twilight seem to be the ones that would be actively horrified by their Lunaverse counterparts. We know that M!Twilight would see L!Twilight as a cautionary example but M!Applejack would have an emotional reaction to this: terror.

>>836223836223

Which is why nopony in Manehattan cares if there are a bunch of malcontents complaining about the abrasive worker bee who can be counted on to meet quota. If they wanna live that close to the Everfree, they have to expect horrible conditions.

>>835840835840  Personally I think that that the key differnce between the pre-show M-AJ and pre-show L-AJ is the absence of Big Mac to balance out AJ. While the Mane Universe Sweet Appple Acres is co-owned and run by the four Apples (with Big Mac and AJ doing more of the work due to age) I see M-AJ as the Face of the Farm due her being more out spoken and better known but she still values the involvement and opinions of the others.

The Lunverse Sweet Apple Acres, on the other hand is expected to be run and owned by just one pony. For what ever reason (I was toying with the idea of the Apple Family being a Matirarchy and the daughters inheriting), AJ was chosen. Big Mac would probably have tried to help out his sister but was stopped because she was expected to do on her own without help. This lead to Big Mac, realising that all he had to look forward to was a life of pulling plows and other forms of manual labour all to earn a paycheck from his own sister, still paying his due's to the family but ultimately washing his hooves of the Apple Family Trust. AJ, being the isolated from the support of Big Mac, had to grow up with the entire burden of inheriting and running the farm placed squarely on her shoulders. That would have been enough to make anyone slightly neroutic.

>>836819836819

There's a thought. Might be worth a check on RDD's fics Boast Busted and LNLD to see if Big Macintosh has been mentioned there. I know Applebloom has, but I can't remember if the older brother of the Apple family has even come up at all.

>>836898836898

I've checked through both of them and I couldn't find any mention of Big Mac. Infact until this story I couldn't find any mention at all about him in any of the Lunaverse stories. I've submitted the first chapter of a story (It's currently awaiting approval) that is going touch on Big Mac and what part he plays in this this universe.

>>837001837001

He may not come up in any of the stories, but over on the group boards we generally assume he's still around doing the same kind of stuff we see him doing on the show.  It's just that much like his M! counterpart he's not very outspoken so doesn't really get involved with SAA's public relations.  He does his work and keeps his peace.  It's not really that we're intentionally ignoring him, we just haven't thought of all that much interesting to do with him.

Hopefully G&C2 has plans for him though.  At the very least I expect him and AJ to have a brief discussion involving 'fancy mathematics'.

since the Apple Trust is multiple farms and AJ can afford to hire help make Mac was asked/decided to move someplace else to start another branch of the family business

All this from a need of a hundred bits, Carrot Top, you really need to grow a spine and a head for business. That being said, I love how Carrot Top being basically pushed from pillar to post and being strongarmed into putting everything on the line trying to win this competition. She really is the Fluttershy of the Lunaverse. I can't wait till she gets her "YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE ME!" moment.

No Carrot Top you didn't need to promise the irrigation system! You can't loose golden Harvest farm! You could have just hammered a deal to pay for the produce you need in instalment! Plus you could share your cooking with the other farmers and get their opinion on it.

Good luck Carrot Top, I'm rooting for you (get it? 'cause carrots are roots ).

Woo! Go Carrot Top!

And good god, I'm really starting to hate Applejack now...

>>838800838800 You are SO not the only one. I legit, 100% serious want to see her ending the story with raindrops breaking her jaw. I know it won't happen but good god she is a Diamond Dog here. And no, it's not 'she's not bad!'. She is seriously out to wreck Carrot Top and keep the other farmers down. She needs pain!

>>841767841767 To be fair, she hasn't been exposed to the magic of friendship. Only inbreeding.

Come on, Applejack. We were in the middle of a nice training montage and you had to interrupt it by ‘going to war.’ That’s just not nice. You’d better at least be wearing a cool helmet or something next chapter. Maybe driving a funny little tank too.

Just in case some of you aren’t keeping count, Carrot Top mentioned earlier that there were 7 days to train, and on the 8th day she’d leave for the competition. Day 1 was dealing with FlimFlam and the other farmers, days 2-4 are done too, and now we’re on to day 5. Halfway there!

Drunk Carrot Top is a lot less fun than drunk Trixie. Fortunately, Berry Punch is on the case. If there’s one pony that knows a lot about how to stay focused and not drink, it’s… uh… well, not her, but you get the idea.

Hopefully, the mention of Big Mac will put to rest notions that he’s been transferred/fired/kept in the shadows for political reasons/eaten by Ursas/assassinated by Applejack because she thinks she’s in Game of Thrones. He’s there, and he’s still working for the Trust and AJ. As to why he’s not the heir despite being the eldest, that will come up more later. But it’s certainly not because they didn’t bother to consider him.

>>836089836089: Re: discussions of AJ’s position in the Trust. I see her as running SAA and being groomed to take over, but I don’t think she handles the whole operation yet. That’s probably done from a big office in Canterlot somewhere. AJ’s still too young to be the CEO, and besides, running a farm doesn’t necessarily have the same skill set as leading a collection of farm – the latter involves political stuff, for instance – so AJ wouldn’t necessarily be all that good at it yet. As to why she’s only the ‘prospective’ heir, I figure that, if the Trust is run at all competently, they won’t just automatically make the next direct descendant of the Apple founders a heir. AJ has to prove she can do it first. So she’s the presumptive heir, but if she totally botches running SAA or takes it in a direction they don't like, they can replace her. (Hmm, I wonder if this might be part of the reason why Big Mac isn't the heir?)

I'm really liking the way you've written the Flimflam Brothers here. They're obviously still supremely dodgy and out to make a quick bit, but their actual product and practices are much more legitimate than in canon. That makes sense - if they pulled a scam on the Apple Trust, they'd be lucky to escape with all of their bones intact, and they'd definitely never be welcomed in any farming community in Equestria again. In fact, if they pulled a scam on any farm in Ponyville, the Apples would probably step in and punish them for it - I think Applejack has that sort of integrity, and actually cares about the other farms to the extent that she wouldn't tolerate outsiders coming in and wrecking them.

>>843337843337

By, say, for instance, taking it way too seriously. They don't mind trying to crush attempts by smallholders to gang up on them but if they realize that she honestly thinks that ponies will starve that way, they might think that she's not stable enough to run the Trust. When I see L!Applejack in action, I'm reminded of the book "Crazy Bosses" by Stanley Bing. So far, we've got the Bully, the Narcissist and the Paranoid. If things go long enough, we'll see the Wimp and my favourite, the Disaster Hunter.

As for Big Macintosh, the reason that he and Granny Smith have no power is that they think that no, the Trust doesn't have to win all the time. AJ and possibly Apple Bloom are sliding on down to Corrupt Hick country and it shows.

I'm really enjoying this story! This is by far the best Berry Punch I've read, for one thing. I love that all of Carrot Top's generosity is coming back around to her now - it's like "It's A Wonderful Life". I think she might just win this thing!

Maybe Applejack's paranoia is rubbing off on me, but I'm starting to worry about exactly what would happen if Sweet Apple Acres went bankrupt. Probably nothing good for Ponyville. Of course, they aren't going to go bankrupt just because they lost a competition, which is the whole point.

>>843462843462: Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it!

I loved writing the scenes where Carrot Top's friends came back to help her. I see CT as being generous, not just on her farm, but also with her time, lending a helping hoof, and other things. She's the pony to go to if you need aid in an emergency, and now it's paying her back handsomely. She does seem to have a much better chance at winning, now.

I wonder if Fluttershy has a rat named Remy that would like to help CT in her competititon? Then all Carrot Top needs is a hat.

>>843462843462

Of course they aren't. This won't be even be a blip on their radar. The only thing that it'll serve to do is to make the big bosses in Canterlot wonder if she's smart enough a pony to take over. The realization that she actually believes the company line might not be taken all that well and could well cause them to hold off on introducing her to their favourite pet nobles.

I wonder how badly Applejack's brain would shatter, should she ever find out how the trust actually is...

>>843337843337

On the subject of Big Mac, you worked something out with Zap Apple Smash, I take it?

>>843847843847 My dear boy, how does one shatter that which is but mush?

>>843939843939: I think so. I don't see the characterizations as terribly inconsistent or divergent, so I think we're okay.

Okay, Applejack. Now it's on! I loved Carrot Top getting back what she gave out like that. Good for her! i love Berry Punch, too. And yeah, Applejack is sliding firmly into villain territory for me.

Applejack wondered how much to tell them. Apple Bloom would probably be horrified to learn that the other farmers were trying to ruin them, so Applejack would have to choose her words very carefully. Big Macintosh wouldn’t be upset, but he would probably be overly concerned with the existence of the anti-Apple alliance, and the fate of Carrot Top’s farm. While Applejack obviously didn’t want to be unpopular or leave anypony homeless, she was able to grasp that it wasn’t more important than feeding Ponyville, and Big Mac had demonstrated difficulty with that concept in the past. She might need to word things carefully with him too.

Wow Applejack, do you even listen to yourself?

It's okay for ponies to lose their homes as long as there's enough apples for everyone to buy?

>>844513844513: Well, she'd think of it more as 'it's okay for Carrot Top to lose her farm if the alternate is everypony, including Carrot Top, starving.'

Or, more precisely, she's basically saying that the needs of the many outweight the needs of Carrot Top. She's like Spock. A sleep-deprived and somewhat unstable Spock.

>>843478843478

Karma is a beautiful thing, is it not?

And Carrot Top's karma is about to run over Applejack's dogma.

>>844521844521

I remember what she was saying to the other farmers in the last chapter though, how she graciously sold them apples in the winter when they would have starved otherwise. So, you better add 'greedy' to that list.

Aw, you lost your farm and now you have no place to live and nothing to eat. But everything's gonna be okay because I'm here to sell you delicious apples at a fair price!

Okay, I'm gonna buck her straight to the sun now...

Alright, that's three chapters now with hardly a grip or quibble for me to harp on.  You're making it very hard for me to continue hating you.  I should probably tell you to keep up the amazing work or something, but part of me really wants to see you screw up so I can go back to the way things were.

Anyway, loved seeing BP's mixing talents come up; that should make her a real asset in helping CT design some amazing dishes for the competition.  Seeing everyone CT's ever helped step-up to return the favor was also simply joyous.  Oh, and can't forget drunk Trixie, (or Lulamoon rather even if the name didn't come up), she's always a blast even i such a small dose.

Berry Punch passed him a piece of paper.

“And Banana Split, can you help us work out this carrot-banana bread?”

>>843368843368

Maybe, but I don't think AJ is quite so over the top crazy as you make her out to be.  Her beliefs may be a bit misguided, but she doesn't let it drive her too foolish antics; she still has good business sense as a guiding principle in it all.  Plus her steadfast belief that the Trust is the only thing keeping Equestria fed is precisely the attitude I'd also expect from the current heads.

>>844603844603

Then again AJ also offered to buyout CT's farm after the seemingly inevitable loss financially ruins her, plus with something of an implied job offer at SAA.  AJ may be a shrewd business pony, but at the heart of it she's still a good soul that doesn't want to see others suffer needlessly.

When she sells cheap to ponies that come on hard times she's not trying to make a profit off their misfortune, heck, she's probably selling at or barely above cost in those cases.  She may not give her produce away, but that's because she's got her own mouths to feed.  All the generosity in the world won't do a lick of good if her own farm goes under leaving her in no position to help the next pony that runs a streak of bad luck, or at least that's how she sees it.

>>845101845101

The problem is that her competitive streak tends to get in the way of her shrewdness by times...such as this time.

"Captain, captain! Radar has picked up a high speed mass of shit off the starboard bow, moving north by northeast!"

"My God, it's going to hit the fan!"

>>846061846061

Except as of yet, we haven't seen her make one bad business decision because of that.  She's made the declaration that she's going to bury CT at the competition, but that's exactly what she should be striving to do.  Eliminating rivals is one of the most basic tenants of good business.

Sure she's made some bad PERSONAL decisions, but her BUSINESS ones have been just fine.

>>846456846456

The problem is that she doesn't seem to realize that they resent her more than they resent the Trust's tactics. Also, somepony will eventually advise CT to not question the Trust's religious beliefs in AJ's earshot.

>>846532846532

Okay, now I'm lost.  Where are you even getting this.  Resent AJ?  I've not seen anypony directly resenting her.  Sure all the farms want a bigger cut of Ponyvilles economic pie, but none of them actual seem to resent AJ herself for that.  They resent their own inability to compete not the actual success of the Trust or AJ.  In fact CT has openly admitted to wishing she was a little ore like AJ.  The Apple Trust has simply been around to long, and AJ is only the most resent and local of it's representatives.  What little resentment is involved is exactly the kind of thing a big business wants out of is smaller competitors as it drives them to make poor business decisions like CT betting the farm.

And the Trust's "religious" beliefs?    I don't even know how to marked heads or tails of that one.

>>846630846630

1) One thing that I've noticed is that Applejack seems to think that Carrot Top is willing to let the whole town starve to death because she hates her. Time and again, we see dialogue that clearly indicates that AJ is baffled and angered because somepony hates HER so much that she's willing to hurt everypony else out of spite. The idea that they don't resent her at all is something that she'll probably grow out of.

2) The Trust seems to honestly believe that they do feed the world and their ruin is universal ruin. Given their size, reality has meshed with an almost-religious belief. Were the Trust to fall, things would indeed get bad because of their sheer size; the problem is that this little thing isn't going to hurt it much.

>>846721846721

Ah well, seems you've actually got a pretty clear handle on the situation.  That said, I still think you're blowing things a bit out of proportion.  Those are all basic and fundamental flaws, but not crippling ones.  The kinda of flaws that make AJ and the Trust interesting antagonists, but nothing that is likely to lead to immediate self-destruction.  The potential is certainly there, but for the time being they are both perfectly functional entities inspite of such problems.

Carrot Top is best pony hurray for the montage! I'm really enjoying this fic! Next time I have to write for Carrot Top I'm gonna have to push myself harder to match your great quality!

I really think she can do this if she sticks to something that's comfortable and not pretentious. Muffins! I bet Ditzy could help out there.

Though now I'm worried about Applejack snapping. That pony needs a good bucking... one way or the other

>>847093847093

The problem, as I see it, is that L!Applejack doesn't have very many friends in the world. She shares that problem with most of the counterparts of the Mane Six.

>>843462843462 Same here; this Berry Punch is the only one that I haven't wanted to... well... punch.

>>846218846218 WIN

>>845101845101 Wait did I miss something? Why do you, err, why did you hate GaC2?

>>847863847863 Eeyup. Even had the Flimflam bros been completely genuine, I was still urging Carrot Top to say 'no' because to dishes with the foam and stuff? It wasn't Carrot Top.

In summary: I really like this Berry Punch, I love the whole bit about 'finding your voice' and above all:

Image: http://i.imgur.com/JdpYT.gif

>>848451848451

No arguments there.  Lack of friends is sort of a running theme with the L!M6

--Twilight has none.

--AJ mostly only has her family.

--Fluttershy and Rainbow really only have each other, and even that is somewhat tainted by it technically being Dash's job, even if she'd do it otherwise.  The Doos are legitimately FS's Friends though.

--Rarity seems like she more so has people that owe her favors than actual friends.

--Pinkie Pie is out going as ever and tries to be friends with everypony, but it seems her L! self is more so tolerated  than actually appreciated for the effort.

>>848517848517

Something of a gag, that sprouted with his obscene speed at posting new stories and the chapters there of.  Plus minor foundational roots in the way I chewed into DatB before publicly quiting it.  So far as I know neither of us actually begrudge each other for any of that.  In fact, I've been told he greatly appreciates my so-called feedback.

Probably going to have to give up the gag soon though as it's just about run its course, not to mention that after three chapters of praise on this fic, plus some similar trending towards the end of the last one, it's become a rather transparent lie.

>>848566848566 Fun while it lasted!

BTW, I finally finished the first Chapter of Student Court. I need to find a better name...

>>848566848566

I should hope that Ill Communication will address why it is that Pinkie is regarded as the annoyance she'd be in real life.

>>848586848586

Personal opinion.  L! Pinkie doesn't know when to back off, and lacks the empathy to understand that what makes her happy isn't what makes everyone else happy.  She addresses Trixie as Lulamoon, because drunk Trixie was more fun to party with.  She tried to push cupcakes on Trixie, even when she very specifically wanted muffins, all because Pinkie thought the latter boring.  L!Pinkie may mean well, but she tends to cross the line.