Apple Bloom asks Applejack a question she had long been dreading.
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"Nah Bloom, we ain't poor. We're what ya call, rural."
Feels man...
Erm i know its the only chapter but i can so imsging ab becomung rich in the future and buying the farm back if its lost
ALL TOGETHER NNOOWW...
By itself the story is fine, I guess, although it confounds several different definitions of poverty.
However, I think it doesn't adequately depict the actual living situation of the Apple family in the show.
The Apples own their own farm, and a quite large and important one at that. Of course they aren't Donald Trump, but they are by no means poor either. As a matter of fact, I'd say they're wealthier than most ponies in Ponyville. They're clearly wealthier than Rainbow Dash, or Fluttershy and her family. They're also wealthier than Twilight Sparkle was before she became a Princess. Comparing them to the Rich's is a loaded comparison to begin with. You have to compare them to the average pony, and I'm fairly certain they're above average in terms of wealth.
I think your attempt to address this point in the story also misses the mark. Like this question:
Um... because that's how farms work?
Even the Riches have to have an income. Maybe they employ paid labor while the Apples are exclusively a family business. But they still have to produce something, or else they'd have used up their wealth long ago.
The question isn't "Are we poor?", Apple Bloom. The question is "Are we happy?"
Just look at how miserable Diamond Tiara was as she sung her heart-song that day. Just look at Spoiled Rich, draped with jewels and Rarity's finest fabrics but without a friend in the world and never once showing a genuine smile, even when surrounded by her peers. You know that Filthy Rich has to work as hard as your brother and sister to keep his business running properly and I'm sure Diamond Tiara has caught him in his study on more than one occasion, wondering how he's going to repay that loan that his cousin Impossibly Rich had deigned to forward to him when sales didn't meet higher-than-expected facility costs for a month or so.
Wealth is not happiness.
Not sure if this is a question that would be asking, judging by the apples living situation they are definitely well above the poverty line. There is an argument to be had the apple family are really millionaires and simply spend there wealth in what's needed not items that are frivolous like a private island
You know, if this were an actual episode in the show, it would probably end with some kind of moral, like that one about how money can't buy happiness or something. As someone who is poor himself, I can kinda relate to this sentiment. But I digress.
I like this story.
Farm kids can have the oddest rich/poor disparity ever. When I was a kid, I was driving six years before any city kid ever got behind the wheel. We had a combine, which cost more than a Trans-Am and that we only drove two weeks a year. On the nearly one square mile of land we owned, there were four ponds, each of which stocked with bass and catfish, so at any time we could go fishing. We never had to ask permission to go quail hunting, or pheasant, or deer. Hamburger was not something you had to go to the store to get, but there was a couple hundred pounds of it out in the freezer. Milk? We had a three-hundred gallon bulk tank with pure cream-included whole milk right there.
Still, we worked 12-14 hour days at times, and some years we had such negative incomes that we got reduced school lunches, but we were the richest poor kids ever.
Not to mention that the barn has been destroyed AND REBUILT three times in one year.
AJ was also planning on buying Big Mac a new plow, and taking Granny Smith to Canterlot for a hip replacement. Those aren't cheap, you know, unless Granny Smith has one heck of a health insurance policy,.
If you read my story, "Diamond Tiara's Decision", there is a comparison done between DT and AB. DT doesn't own any assets, stocks, has no income, while AB owns part of Sweet Apple Acres, making AB wealthier than DT.
The Apples also "wrote off" part of the eastern orchards due to a fruit bat infestation, but that didn't affect their output significantly, and AJ was willing to write off yet another part of the land and set is aside as a bat sanctuary in "Bats". Perchance, the Crown gives farms subsidies when it comes to plagues?
And while this isn't mentioned in the show, given that AJ is a Bearer of the Elements and a Champion of Equestria, it's very likely that she gets a stipend from the Crown, not to mention the expected "Imminent Danger Pay" whenever she has to go on a mission related to the Elements and/or an assignment given by the Map (what, you all thought that the Mane 6 saved Equestria out of their own pockets?
)
Apples and apple cider aren't their only products. They raise pigs, sheep, cows, carrots, celery stalks, colourful flowers too
so they have more than one source of income.
And what about that pet dryer the CMC built on their own? That's a lot of expensive parts and raw material that they had to buy, and the were ABLE to buy with that gem.
They may not have that many LIQUID assets, but they definitely aren't poor.
7596830 Wealthier than Rainbow Dash? Not so sure about that one. She's got that cloud-mansion, and she was a stunt flier even before she became a Wonderbolt. Her gross income might be lower, but her expenses are virtually nil compared to what it costs to keep Sweet Apple Acres running. Dash doesn't regularly worry about costs; AJ does. That doesn't mean Dash is definitely wealthier, but it doesn't argue for her absolutely being poorer, either.
"Applejack, are we poor?"
No, the Apple Family is not even remotely poor. They own more land than you can shake a stick at (countless acres of Apple trees and of course all of the equipment/produces/ect that does into that) and are the only suppliers of rare luxury goods (Zap Apple Jam and Sweet Apple Acre Cider, both of which should bring incredible returns). Sure they might seem poor (though really they don't even seem poor in the show) but that's because most of their money goes back into the farm with improvements (how many additional buildings have the Apples built in the show? Like four?) and general planting and maintenance (as farms are known to do).
Short of Twilight (depending on how you want to count her castle and access to the royal treasury), I would argue AJ is probably the wealthiest of the Mane 6 and likely all of Ponyville when you get down to it. It's not wealth that's especially visible on her person like a Tiara would be nor is she able to liquidate her wealth for a quick purchase per say but she certainly doesn't seem to be hurting for funds (nor is Applebloom denied things, just look at all the random clothes and whatnot she has when she's getting ready for Babs to come over).
7597001 The difference between a cloud mansion and a cloud shack is the amount of time you're willing to put in putting it together. That mansion can be, and probably was, made by Rainbow Dash over a period of one very very long day.
And since when was pre-Wonderbolts Dash a stunt flier? Sure, she was fast and did regular practice and was frequently acknowledged as being very athletic, but that's it. Before the Wonderbolts, Rainbow Dash was a naturally gifted, massively overqualified weatherpony living for no rent in a little hamlet that, prior to Twilight Sparkle, may as well not have been on the map. She was a kid with big dreams working a dead-end job.
Money only counts for so much when you live in a town that mostly operates off a barter system of goods and services, on a self-sustainable property, in a world where unsupervised children can travel across the country seemingly without incident.
Plus, feels like AJ was trying way too hard. She seems like the sort of pony who'd jump right into "we may not have many bits, but we're a family and we got food."
7597037 You there. You are extremely sensible.
7597037
Actually, I would argue that title goes to Rarity. Who owns three shops by now, decorates her dresses with incredibly valuable gems, and has always been shown to worry about reputation over money, which makes total sense for an artist who doesn't have to worry about money anymore.
As someone that had grown up poor or at least by industrialized country standards. This hits home for me. At least poorer then the Apple family. But mainly because of bad decisions on my parents part. I still enjoined the story.
7597118
I would understand that argument, but I would need to disagree.
First, we don't actually know that her gems are as valuable as they would be here on Earth. She digs them out of the ground herself after all (without much competition) and they don't seem all that in demand (many of her newest dresses don't feature gems heavily at all). Of course the counter point is when the CMC buy a huge machine drier with their single chip of gem...
Second her shops are mostly newly opened and her only long standing one is in Ponyville itself, a small town were she isn't likely to sell that many expensive dresses on a regular basis. Until recently she hand made every dress herself for each customer to come in her door.
I just don't see that as anything close to the sheer mass of wealth the Apple family farm represents.
7597208
Well, let's not forget that Rarity is a designer who loves not only creating but putting it together afterwards. She's consistently prided herself on that principal of personal care.
Also keep in mind that her original shop in rural Ponville had clients like Saphire Shores and Hoity Toity (once he got over the initial bad impression), both even ordering in bulk. They're rather high profile for such a humble town. She's even become Saphire Shore's favourite designer.
She never worried about saggy old ploughs, or saggy old hips. If you ask me, Rarity is quite rich, but she's an "artiste" and money just isn't a thing to her. I doubt Rarity fully understands how much Rarity is worth.
Agree to disagree perhaps.
Lol, love the comments here.
I get what you're going with, the whole "you're rich in another sense, applebloom" and a chapter of Apple Jack just saying that half a million bits were tied up in some asset and another million bits were spent on the west orchard would be boring.
I think the disconnect you're having with the readers above is when Apple Jack goes all
It kinda kills the suspension of belief.
I mean, I guess I could count this as another all of the apple clan being terrible at business story.
Nice little story, with a nice moral.
But yeah, I'll agree with the other folks chiming in. The Apples might not be on, say, Filthy Rich levels, but they're still fairly 'well to do.' They just might not show it-- though it might be funny to see Applejack reveal the Apple family to be loaded, since they're not in the habit of spending tons of money on fancy stuff. :)
From what I've seen of the show, the Apples have a ginormous business... but they're not rich because they're constantly expanding and making due, due to all their funds they get from the business being mostly spent on keeping the farm running.
7597044 Given the recessed track lighting, the non-cloud floors, and the fact that she can put regular objects (like her blanket, Tank, and memorabilia) around without it falling through, I'm going to say that it's not a given that she could just throw it together in a day - or that she could do it on her own at all, since there's been a grand total of one time we saw her make a cloud-mass thick enough for non-pegasi to interact with it. We've seen construction ponies in Cloudsdale (one using a jackhammer, even), so there's more to cloud architecture than just shoving some clouds together. Exactly how expensive that process might be hasn't been shown, but if it was that easy, Fluttershy's brother could have put one together.
As for her job, in the very first episode she was established as being in charge of Ponyville's weather - Twilight wasn't just looking for 'any pegasus in Ponyville,' but for Rainbow Dash in particular. She was also in charge of the tornado effort. At the very least, she was in charge of a fairly important civic function, and one that had multiple other employees working for her.
As for stunt flying, she was practicing that frequently - and in the comics, at least, she's been an attraction at air shows in her own right, plus she was at least famous enough to have fans at Rainbow Falls, and the Wonderbolts themselves acknowledged that they were completely certain that she'd be their newest member, so they knew about her stunt flying abilities as well. She might not have been doing it on a regular, professional basis, but she was at least doing it publicly and frequently enough to be known for it.
And again, Dash seems to have enough cash that she's never worried about it, while AJ routinely is, to the point where she felt she had to work herself crazy just to keep the farm going.
All that said, hey, everyone's welcome to their own headcanon. If you prefer 'AJ is wealthy,' go for it. But don't expect that headcanon to be accepted as self-evident to everyone else. :-)
The Element of Honesty, ladies and gentlemen.
Farming, in the nonmagical universe we stumble around in, is an often financially precarious business with quite narrow profit margins and often quite heavy debt loans. Land is the underlying source of wealth and the basic collateral for loans, but land prices can fluctuate widely (and I can't imagine the selling price of land right next to the Everfree is particularly high). So although personally I doubt the Apples are going-hungry-poor (they're Ponies: they can always eat grass, anyway
), they probably lack one of the fundamental indicators of wealth: financial security.
(Admittedly, Pony farmers have one serious advantage over farmers in our world: predictable and reliable weather.
)
7597428 Considering we've been told literally nothing about cloud architecture, we have no reason not to think that all a cloud house needs is a little pegasus magic and a bunch of clouds. And maybe a few days of an incomplete house. Also, feels like you've missed the point of Zephyr Breeze; the guy is terrified of living on his own. He's too scared to even lift a hoof to try something, and you're suggesting he should have built an entire house by himself.
As for being in charge of the local weather operations, that can't rank particularly high in municipal functions. Weather management is, for almost all intents and purposes we've seen in the show, irrigation and custodial stuff. And I don't know about you, but the last time I heard about the head of a janitorial company being utterly loaded, it was because he had won the lottery. The tornado is similar, except that the tornado appears to be entirely done by volunteers and merely overseen by a qualified professional.
It is definitely true that Rainbow Dash has fans and the Wonderbolts recognize her ability after Season 3. Now, tell me what fans she had before she pulled off a Sonic Rainboom at a public event, saved the Wonderbolts' lives, saved the world several times over, and actually built up some street cred. By the time we were introduced to Rainbow Falls, one of the most common complaints among the fandom was that the Mane Six weren't being treated like the biggest thing since Celestia everywhere they went.
In any case, she is not automatically a stunt flier just because she practiced. You can't call yourself an acrobat just because you mimicked the ones on TV.
And when did I ever say I preferred any particular headcanon? I never argued against the idea that Rainbow Dash was the richest pony in Ponyville, I merely stepped in to point out that the cloud mansion is not necessarily an indicator of wealth, and she most definitely was not a stunt flier before she was a Wonderbolt. And what does any of this have to do with whether or not AJ has a single bit to her name? I thought I was talking about Rainbow Dash.
No.
7597037 Not to mention the excessively redundant identical bows.
Apple Bloom is mistaken about the meaning of land poor, land poor is when you lack money because you have a lot of land.
7597630 ???
Don't apologize. You've done good.
Given how much the Pies paid Trixie for her hard work, I imagine they just CHOSE to live the simple life.
Rarity SHOULD explain basic economics to Apple Bloom.
My life from 4-8 years old was just this story but dad just says yes and not to feel bad my Parents got divorced over money one time my sister and I got into my dads room and he told us we only had 12 dollars in our bank account few years later he finished colledge married a a slightly wealthier woman so now were all better
7597504
Not to mention they have the advantage of innate magic that gives them a bond to the earth allowing AJ to do things like cause a seed to sprout in her hoof and Big Mac the strength to move a house by skipping (making running the land manageable for just their family, saving money on equipment and farm hands).
As for land prices... I doubt the Apples bought much land at all (so how much debt they have is questionable). They were given their land by Celestia (as we somewhat see in a flashback) and Ponyville grew around them. And while the Everfree might have at one point kept land prices low, now it is mostly tame, with national heroes are on hand to drive off anything that does show up, and, most importantly, the giant crystal seat of the newly crowned Princess is right next door. I have to think Ponyville is the fastest growing town on the map and land prices are through the roof.
7597270
Clearly you and I have much different ideas of what boring means.
7597981 They are not poor in the long run. Not poor in the short run either. It's just they don't have power along with the experience to run things. You have two young adults wet behind the ears, one clueless minor and one forgetful elder. No parents. Not enough ponies and not enough time.
In this universe:
They have a huge apple tree forest which should make bits hoof over hoof. Which doesn't because it's too big for them to handle. If they had two more non-paying adults (like family members they have tons of), they would be swimming in lots of bits. Two adults they would have to pay would see them still swim in bits. They even have pigs, cows, other crops they can use for bits. Honestly, they never should go hungry at all. Food is all over the place.
Pretty sure the bit problem is half maintenance upkeep and half debt. In this season (and the ones before those) AppleJack and Big Mac should have learn from their mistakes by now. They are not stupid so that's not the problem. Maintenance solved. Getting foreclosed? They should have never been in debt in the first place or in any place put the whole farm up for collateral. Rookie mistake. Interest is a bitch and high interest is a cunt. Debt... not solved.
My final, further opinion to sum up things is the farm itself and their lenders control the where the money goes. It controls them because there is too much for them or anyone in their place to handle.
No, but we need help.
7597401 *make do
7598185
"Mostly tame?" Ponyville has had incursion by Everfree monsters several times during the show. The Ursa Major, the Parasprites, the Plunder Vines, a giant Timberwolf - and while the Bugbear was from Tartarus (IIRC) and the Hydra lived in a nearby swamp rather than the Everfree proper, monster attacks are monster attacks.
7598217 Oh. Yeah, I see what you're saying.
7598238 lol Thanks for that.
7598258
Yes but most of those happened early in the show. Ever since Twilight become a Princess/healed the Tree of Harmony, the Everfree has had very little activity at all (ie, "tamed" and the show itself tells us this, it's not just the lack of on screen attacks). Also how are new potential residence really going to know about old monster attacks in Ponyville? All they're likely to have heard about is Twilight's Coronation/Castle.
I... don't think they would actually be poor. Consider this, if you will... They founded Ponyville, own vast amounts of land, and grow thousands upon thousands of apples. If they were poor, then they wouldn't have nearly as much land as they do, not to mention they are the only 'known' apple farmers canon to the show. If they truly were poor, how could they afford to grow those apples. They sell apples, probably daily, all the time. And most likely, grow other things. They can't particularly 'go hungry' because they have an orchard of perfectly edible apples. So... like, dislike, comment, or ignore this, but in the end... they aren't actually poor.
7598292 actually farmers are poor even the ones with large holding are bad off
7597612 Your initial statement was this: "They're clearly wealthier than Rainbow Dash, or Fluttershy and her family."
You're the one who made the declarative statement - which is specifically a comparison in relative wealth. I'm pointing out that this is not in fact based in anything but a personal headcanon, and that the exact opposite is entirely plausible. Given that there's an entire city sustained on that industry, I don't think much of the suggestion that weather control is a disrespected low-wage position either, but again, all headcanon, so fill in whatever background you like; just don't put it that anyone else has to accept it.
7598358 Dude... You're not talking to Aristagtle. I'm a completely different person. I'm not the guy who made that declarative statement.
7598348 Well... fair trade is a thing... right????
I don't know if your intention was to begin a comments section discussion on farming economics and the Equestrian economy, but it's what happened, and honestly it seems to be going well (I've enjoyed scrolling through the comments, anyway). For my own part I really enjoyed this story as well; in particular I've more-or-less been where Applejack has been, only it's a cat I've had to make sure doesn't go hungry rather than a filly.
If we accept the idea that the Apples are poor (and honestly I don't think it matters whether or not they are in the show: for the purposes of this story, they are, and that's all that matters), I think it would be due to Applejack's honest and generous nature more than any issues with Sweet Apple Acres. Which is not to say that she should necessarily be more dishonest. Rather that her desire to ensure a "fair" deal might potentially leave Sweet Apple Acres somewhat in the lurch. The classic example of this being the line for cider that we see in "Super Speedy Cider Squeezy." Despite having ponies lining up the night before in order to get their hooves on just one cup of what must be a heavenly ambrosia, she only charges two bits a mug. If she increased the price by even one bit per mug, I doubt it would affect her patronage, yet she would earn a profit that is half again as large.
However Applejack seems to have decided that a mug of Sweet Apple Acres Cider is worth two bits, and I doubt she'd ever charge more than that, since she would personally view it as ripping ponies off. That kind of integrity is admirable...but also problematic.
7597270
Well, the Apples could eat apples, and they grow enough that it probably wouldn't significantly cut into their sales. However much as how man cannot live on bread alone, ponies probably can't live on apples alone: various vital nutrients would be missing from the diet. Grazing grass is, likewise, tremendously calorie inefficient for real-life ponies and horses, unless said pony or horse is spending literally hours at at a time doing it, eating a tremendous amount of grass in the process.
Not to mention I imagine there would be at least some social stigma attached to it. If you looked over your fence and saw your neighbor catch, kill, cook, and eat a squirrel, what would you think of him, no matter how tight his funds were at the moment?
Like it. Though they're probably richer.
Before I read this...
Apple family is probably equivalent to big farming company..