This story is a sequel to Reunited
Six years.
For six years she has slept in a coma and now she has awakened. The entire world wants her to die for her crimes. Equestria wants her to die for her lies. Even I will admit I just want to see her die so I can move on with my life.
But before I say goodbye to my mentor, the former Princess Celestia, I have to ask her one question.
Why? Why did she do all this? Why transport us from Equestria to Earth? Why try to turn Humanity into Ponies?
All I want is the truth.
Based on The Conversion Bureau series.
Pre-Read by bahatumay, Socks (Also thanks for finding this cover art), and Chaotic Note
Edited by Biker_Dash
Chapters (1)
Wow. Okay then.
The worst kinds of monsters are the ones who feel their atrocities were justified.
7062855 Agreed.
...
The feels...
7062855 What makes it worse is that Celestia knew what she was doing and she knew it was wrong, yet she doesn't see it. She should have known that our world and her world do not function the same.
The words "For the Greater Good" are always used to justify genocide and atrocities.
7062855 There is an old saying that is sadly true... "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Another good one is from C.S. Lewis:
I don't feel sorry for Celestia. Good game for trying. She went in the right direction but made all the wrong choices. She choose to save everyone she could, but let her desperation get in the way of righteousness. She wanted to do the right thing, but let herself be blinded by the greater good. The 'Greater Good' may be removing humanity, we can be cruel and cold hearted sometimes, we will destroy ourselves one day. But the same greater good can also ignore morality, and encourage hatred. Celestia refused to see the consequences of her actions, she thought she was above them.
Thus, a lie was silenced. Besides, humanity did come out of the war united, differences put aside. But was the aftermath really worth it?
Well it is definitely a unique take on the motivations of Xenocelesita (at least the ones I've read). I would have liked to see her at least try to extend some diplomatic relations to the humans and have the humans screw that up in some way, beyond a random group of people eating Sunset Shimmer. It would have pushed the moral greyness of the situation a little bit more and how no one is 100 % pure.
Luckily this is an alternate universe, for I could not imagine canon Princess Celestia sentencing an entire sapient species to death.
Though yes, this does give a good reason for the whole Xenolesia trope. Still would be nice for these ponies to encounter a close to canon Celestia (from another universe), who had never fallen into madness and did in fact save humanity from Xenolesia.
Or even a Celestia in the same situation of Xenolesia, but rather than try convert them she reaches out to humanity and befriends them. There might be times she might have to defend Equestria from humans, but certainly not commit genocide on them.
7062919 Truer words have never been spoken.
I like this take on Celestia's motives, it allows me to sympathise with her but still see her as evil.
....Am I the only one thinking of the anime Code Geass now?
Initially I thought she was going to go all Zero Requiem with the way she was talking about humanity united in their hatred against her. Then I continued reading......denied.
7062943 There are a number of TCB fics that explore Canon!Celestia trying to save the humans from Xeno!Celestia so you could read those. Of course a lot of these TCB fics are embedded in the realms of fantasy, space fantasy, and adventure whereas this series of TCB fics seem to try to ground themselves in reality and be almost a slice of life.
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7063010 I thought the same thing. The "united in hatred" line instantly made me think of Code Geass. I was hoping it would go that route with Celestia's own equivalent of the Zero Requiem.
Besides that, this is definitely the most sympathetic version of Xenolestia I've seen.
7063006 Nope. And because a part of me wished it was going down that route, here is the one man who conquered the world and then brought it peace.
Long live Lelouch vi Britannia, the enemy of the world, the creator of the New World, Zero.
7062943 go read this one
Code Geass, Zero Requiem
GG celestia. I guess she never played Starcraft. The humans would have made it into space colonisation anyway.
7063029 there is a theory Lelouch didn't die. C.C.'s final words may have been to the driver who was Lelouch. It would be one final gambit, one worthy of him.
Great story and so sad. Everything she did was for good reasons that slowly but surely went bad. Sunset dead, no hope, and even her intentions flawed in practice. She deserved death for her crimes. And she deserved Twilight's tears for her mentor.
7063178 A thought that survives so many attempts of word of godding that it ain't even funny.
Also, the reason why Lelouch > Light.
I kinda can't wait till this over. You are a superb writer and the topic is great. But this world strikes a cord with me. My father and his side of the family are german, and the sentiment of self-hatred for sins committed by another generation, a generation being led astray is strong. And I must say I despise it. I hate overly drawn out self-hatred/guilt/remorse/hate. Germans vs Jews, Muslims vs Americans/French/Belgians, Blacks vs Whites. etc.
I see this mirrored in the ponies, and I'm struggling not to see Twilight as Angela Merkel. I hope by the end of the series, we get to a point where its "fuck it, its the past, lets move on". Maybe I can get that here, seeing as how in reality people can't let go of shit that happened multiple years in the past.
Anyway keep them coming, waiting to see how the world develops, maybe this'l end on a high note.
Man, isn't this story just a waterfall of hittin' ya in the feels. Maybe it's because I'm so use to a "happily ever after" ending, but seeing Twily and Celestia being torn away like that is a real sucker punch. Not to mention, of course, how the Mane 6 are forever changed and will never truly be themselves due to the sheer casualties suffered. Probably one of the only Tragedy/Dark stories I'll ever enjoy to an extent. Good job author, you did your job amazingly well.
Brilliant simply brilliant
Tragedy is right. The ponies and everyone on their world would ALL have died and anyone who wasn't an idealist to the bitter end would have taken that kind of risk. Maybe she could have let on, but there's no way to prove that would have been a better outcome. There would probably have been a massive war regardless and the probable outcome of getting her ponies slaughtered as "invading aliens" is all too likely.
One dimension of the issue is that there may be a greater good by which a lesser evil is justified. The greater good of whom though? In any case the victors in a conflict write the history and we often hold people to a higher standard than anyone could ever hope to meet.
I can't help seeing Celestia as something of a scapegoat here and she's going to her death to ensure a particular goal. If I had to guess, I would say that the deaths of Sunset and Luna are a pivotal factor. It's much easier to blame herself for their deaths personally than admit that those risks were inevitable. Without having converted humans to ponies there probably would have been mass xenophobia at best. Twilight is an damaged and emotionally troubled idiot who is willing to let her mentor die alone and unforgiving, preferring to believe her a monster than admit she could have done no better.
And So the end of Celestia comes not with a bang, but a whimper.
I can tell this is a great piece of literature because it pissed me off.
Few stories can do that. I'm literally shaking as I write this. I've never hated a fictional character more than Celestia and boy does it show here. I mean fucking hell.
kill one race to preserv your own?how sick do you have to be to try that
at least she is right at one point
I can see Celestia having that type of thought process. She felt that time was limited and had to save her ponies by any means necessary. Unfortunately, I honestly can't think of another way for Celestia to get this outcome without all the bloodshed. I know it's too late for the 'verse, but I hope someone can solve this Catch-22 situation in another one.
I honestly couldn't get into this.
Granted, I don't think it's a bad story per se, but the overall characterization came off as two mouthpieces talking about an excuse to the TCB series.
I didn't really get a feel that Twilight was Twilight and Celestia was Celestia. It's true both are altered from their previous states of mind, but it just never really came off that it was actually them speaking.
Maybe if Twilight had had a larger, more emotional peice in how she once felt about Celestia, it might have been more believable.
7063178
That was the original ending, but they changed it so that Lelouch's sacrifice would have more meaning.
Also, they might have been able to save the other races if Celestia knew that Discord could easily open portals to other dimensions.
There's an awful repeat of "No choice" and intentions and lots others. I didn't like this as much as the others and I sorta expected the whole thing/story. Anyway looking forward to the rest.
Read this and the only thing that came to mind was
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welp
this is what i got out of this series.
Wow Celestia had some good reasons but why do I feel that no matter what she only made things worse.
7063492 Original ending yes, but they left just enough doubt to leave it open to question.
There will likely be a lot of hate heaped on Celestia in the analysis of this story. There is nothing that can truly justify what this version of Celestia had done, but I do need to take a step back and ask myself this question:
What if humanity were faced with its own extinction in a relatively short amount of time, and our only hope rested with usurping another world? How would we react? How would it affect our morals? When does ethics stop to be a concern because our survival as a species has overwhelmed it?
I don't know the answer to that. I hope I never have to contemplate it.
....I...I can honestly say this is the best Xenolestia I've seen written, period. That said, part of me did somewhat expect an explanation akin to Lelouch vi Britannia from Code Geass. Thing is...well I can obviously still see her bias, see how her best intentions transformed into a monstrous war that all but destroyed the human world and her own ponies' identities with it. In the end, her efforts were NOT worth it. At least, not by my reckoning.
By my thinking, she miss-stepped with the pony conversion being imperfect, mis-stepped harder by not addressing it quickly in the beginning, and finally by leading her ponies into war with humanity as a whole, rather than having proper human allies, nation or otherwise.
Ultimately, Celestia here is better than most put into this situation, but she disappoints me. Her final act brings some small redemption, showing her extreme-ism hasn't clouded her from what she has destroyed in her attempt. But that's a small consolation, and her destruction ultimately is justified.
...I'd have just 'destroyed' her differently.
For somepony like her, death is a mercy, and thus the end with anything else being personal experience in "hell" if it applies. But for her, the cruelest fate would be to live on. Take her horn, her magic, take her wings, and take her destiny/identity, then leave her to wander. Make her task to see the world she has created with her own foolishness. Let her see hints of what could have been as she sees both races try to recover, and the long lasting changes that curse her name. She will be recognized by no one, and made to help repair the world as an Earth Pony, a provider of life and growth, the furthest thing she'd been since she attempted her crusade.
The toil, the anguish, the inevitable connections she'd forge and the PAIN that would cause her. The suffering because despite all taken from her...she'd still be ageless, time passing her by unmarked as so many die constantly around her. A provider, yet all the magical knowledge she has with no way to use it. Her task unending, she may eventually redeem herself, but forever be remembered for her wickedness in that one time period.
And her ultimate shame when, as enough time passes, inevitably some fool pony/human/ect takes up her cause again, trying to finish what she started. And she will then gaze in horror, and know just how much THE SAME SHE WAS to the humans she so scorned. Right up there with Hitler and others who's names are so hated, yet so revered by the twisted. Let THAT be her damnation, her punishment.
But then, that's just me, and I think it makes for a longer, more interesting story and look into Celestia. Even giving her a shot at redemption from a written perspective. Again, in my opinion.
FUCK YEAH SIX STORIES?! AWW BOI KEEP EM COMING!
Holy shit just had this series recommended to me by my friend about an hour ago and ive already binge read them! These are easily my new favourite stories they are just so well written! The storyline is also amazing and thorough kudos to you Rated Ponystar.
This Celestia reminds me of Arthas Menethil.
I sincerely thought she was gonna invoke Ozymandias halfway through her explanation.
Guess I was wrong, in a sense.
Still,
BRAVA!!
I've been itching to see this installment and the wait was worth it!
I really enjoyed Celestia's characterization in this one. One of my all-time biggest gripes with TCB was the whole Xenolestia characterization that always got slapped on her, with nary a motivation. I mean, there is kind of a reason why we had Mirror-Universe!Celestia be brainwashed by an Artifact of Doom in 'Other Side of the Spectrum'...
But here, it's fresh, it makes genuine sense and moreover, it's complex and goes beyond the whole "ponies pure and purfect and wunnerful; hoomins ebil and horribles" BS. It's sympathetic enough to be understandable, but the way she went about makes it clear she really dun fucked up and beyond redemption.
Plus Twilight is well written here; she is tragic, sympathetic and her emotions feel real.
Can't wait for the next installment!
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That has got to be the silliest thing that I have read in quite a while.
That is called self preservation. If it's a choice between "them" or "us", you choose "us." Individuals, cultures, and species unable to make that decision tend not to last long. There's a great deal of selection pressure against them.
Celestia's mistakes lie not in choosing to save her ponies at the price of exterminating humanity. Her mistake was in choosing "us" over "them" when "both" was still very much on the table. She was the one who decided that coexistence was impossible. She was the one who choose violence and genocide as an answer when violence was not truly necessary. And that is what makes her irredeemably evil.
Well, that and the fact that she lost. If she had won, history would have supported her. Of course, even in defeat she has partially succeeded. Her ponies still live, which is more than would have happened had she done nothing. She may be (rightfully) reviled by her ponies for all time, but that necessitates that there be some ponies left.
7063690 nah. If anything, she'd probably feel vindicated. A world united, harmony between humans and ponies - not absolute, but we aren't nor will be either. The progress and discoveries magic and technology would enable for one another. Her little ponies safe and prospering, instead of dead and gone with their planet. Her mistakes being corrected by the one she taught and raised.
Yeah, that wouldn't be punishment, it would be a reward. To die, never to know if her sacrifices were in vain? That's how you punish a immortal that cares. Either that or destroying their work... But it would mean killing all ponies, so no can do. Would make humankind worse than her, something that while we're plenty capable of wouldn't be done for they suffered as we did.
So die she must. For the crime of doing what was needed but without raising her voice, telling us of her plight and asking for help - so that we could be helped too. For the crime of letting feelings cloud hey judgment, for being way too human.
Bravo good sir, bravo!
7062923 Unity because of the "greater good" is NEVER worth it
Other than the conflicting self opinion of choosing a side, the only reason I was trapped with this story is because I can empathize with it.
I had lived with both my dad and my relatives, and they basically stand against each other like El Clasico or the Cold War. Both sides had ideals and beliefs that influenced me, and brought me into a world of chaotic and worthless cultural values of tradition. Although I prefer living with my father, I couldn't completely agree with him nor my relatives, yet I couldn't completely hate both sides either. It's ironic how that we all are generically and genetically related yet hostile strangers, it angers me that I can not be forced to stay on one face of the sphere, because then I would be free and directionless, just wandering and slowly losing the sense of what reality is.
It hurts knowing that you can't make a decision and let the evil of anxiety take over who you really are.
And this story is the tip of that blade into my gut.
This line...this line gets me every time.
Because, Celestia, all you had to do was look.
A park. An elementary school. A library. A wedding hall. A house. Anywhere. All you had to do, Celestia, was fucking look.
Almost anywhere in the world, just walking down the street, you'd be able to see something that proved we had the magic of friendship. I don't know, a mother with her child. Children playing. A couple holding hands. Sure, there's a lot of crappy people out there, but Celestia always would have been able to find some good if she was really trying.
I mean, I just... *flaps arms and shrieks*
CELESTIA WERE YOU EVER REALLY TRYING