• Member Since 25th Feb, 2013
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Titanium Dragon


TD writes and reviews pony fanfiction, and has a serious RariJack addiction. Send help and/or ponies.

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Luna is through with Celestia making excuses for why ponies don't show her the love and admiration she deserves as co-ruler of all Equestria.

But when a towering monster appears and tells Luna that she can bring her sister to heel and be properly appreciated, Luna remains wary. She is no fool like Sombra, to fall prey to the darkness.

But this "Nightmare Moon" knows too much. Who is she? Why does she bear Luna's mark? And why is she so confident about the course the future will take?


There is now a Spanish translation of this story, courtesy of Spaniard Kiwi

Chapters (1)
Comments ( 40 )

That's a great picture.

6639822
I'd love to take credit, but it is by the very talented Marenlicious.

Your 33rd story, niiice!

6640114
Heh, I've written a fair few of them now, haven't I?

If only I finished everything I started, I'd be up to 50 by now. Alas.

Hopefully this recent burst of productivity will continue.

Ah yes, this was a good one. Glad to see it here.

6640352
Thanks! I'm trying to actually get stuff done instead of sitting on it forever. :heart:

Glad you liked it. :twilightsmile:

I like the ending, very nice. Good discussion along the way, too.

6640578
Thanks! I'm glad you found it interesting. :twilightsmile:

Didn't quite know where this was headed till the very end. An interesting twist. Makes me wonder how that scenario would play out in a longer story. It's refreshing to see the "set-in-stone destiny" concept working both ways. An enjoyable read.

I wonder why Luna didn't just explain the need to do this and just... tell her past self the future...
Though, that would take more than the five second limit imposed by the time-travelling spell...

Hunh. This is very different from the Writeoff minific version. I like it a lot better, and it really gets across that sense of inevitability.

About halfway through I was starting to figure out that something timey wimey was going on, but you wrapped it up more elegantly than I was expecting. Well done!

This is one of those stories that relies on its twist for any impact. The entire story up to the twist feels very rushed and a bit dull. Luna and Nightmare Moon's interactions don't feel naturalistic. The prose is okay, but the awkward sentences peppered throughout make it less digestible.

On the other hand, the twist itself was good, in both content and execution. It does what a good twist should; it gradually creeps up on the reader, before striking them with a epiphanic backhand of emotion.

I think the final scene does a good job of making the situation obvious to the reader, while being subtle enough to give the reader that quick accomplishment of figuring it out. It's also succinct enough not to lose impact, which is important when delivering twists.

So the question becomes; if a story is designed solely to deliver a twist, does possessing a good twist make up for a mediocre lead-in? For myself, I'm sort of ambivalent. I thought I'd be more biased, given my predilection for the topic. The story is a bit of a mixed bag, though

Did they even thank me for my service?

Clearly Equestria needs an equivalent of American Veteran's Day. I'm chuckling at an image of a crowd of ponies yelling "Thank you for your Service!" at Luna.

6640743
It is always good to hear from folks who read both versions that they felt it was an improvement; at three times the length, it had a lot more space to show Luna's feelings, as well as getting more time to develop the sense of Nightmare Moon knowing too much, and why things had to be the way they were. I'm glad it worked better for you than the original.

6640718

It's refreshing to see the "set-in-stone destiny" concept working both ways.

I have to admit I'm kind of a sucker for stories that play around with destiny (and time travel), so I'm glad you liked it here.

Thanks for reading. :heart:

6640795
Thanks! I'm sorry you didn't find the start as engaging as the ending, and that was one of my major concerns in writing the story; the opening scene was pretty vital to setting the stage for the ending, but there are upteen stories about "Luna confronting the darkness and giving in", so it kind of was a struggle to make it feel distinct. I sort of cheated by writing the story summary the way I did, so the reader would have more idea of what threads might start unraveling.

I think the final scene does a good job of making the situation obvious to the reader, while being subtle enough to give the reader that quick accomplishment of figuring it out. It's also succinct enough not to lose impact, which is important when delivering twists.

I'm glad to hear you felt that way; the final scene in the original incarnation was quite short, and over editing ended up at its present length. I was worried it might be too long, but one of my editors actually didn't really understand what happened in the story after reading it, which prompted me to add in still more detail and make it clearer what exactly was going on. I'm glad it didn't feel overlong to you.

So the question becomes; if a story is designed solely to deliver a twist, does possessing a good twist make up for a mediocre lead-in? For myself, I'm sort of ambivalent. I thought I'd be more biased, given my predilection for the topic. The story is a bit of a mixed bag, though

Admittedly, I really love twists, but it does you no good to have a twist if the reader isn't around for it, or has lost interest by that point and has resorted to scanning. I think one of the real keys to something like that is that you need to keep it short; if the lead-in is necessary but might lose reader interest, you need to make sure that they're still with you by the time of the twist, so in that case, you want it to get out of the way as soon as possible so that the reader can be entertained.

I think it is better to have something really compelling to draw in the reader, though; one flaw with twist stories is that the hook tends to have to be separate from the twist, so you really sort of need to come up with two hooks so to speak - the initial one that draws the reader in, then the "twist hook" that re-ups their commitment and engagement to the story.

That being said, I know I've liked a number of stories which have somewhat mediocre lead-ins but where the twist sold me on the piece.

6640846
I actually have a Veteran's/Memorial Day type story in editing, though it is probably going to need a fair bit of work before I actually post it. I was planning on posting it on Veteran's Day, but decided that the story in its present state wasn't good enough.

Woah. That's trippy.

The story was well thought out on how Luna became Nightmare Moon. I like how you portray the confrontation of the polar opposites though I wonder why isn't Luna speaking in Ye Old English like in Luna Eclipse.

I especially loved the subtle reference that Luna Might have time travelled

6641471
Luna did, in fact, use some Early Modern English (notice her use of thou/thee/thy; she transitions to the more polite "you" at the end of the conversation when she realizes that Nightmare Moon is herself from the future), but I tried to avoid a few of the stranger forms because I thought they were distracting. I briefly wrote a version where Luna went more hardcore into Early Modern English, but I found it to be distracting and so scaled back on it for purposes of readability. If you want to read a story where I made extensive use of Early Modern English, you might enjoy Dawn and its sequel, Dusk.

As for Nightmare Moon not speaking in Early Modern English - that's a deliberate clue to her being from the future, when Luna no longer uses Early Modern English.

I'm glad you liked the story. :heart:

That was good, though not really so for Luna. I have to wonder about her thought processes leading up to the time traveling trip. Confusion for a while at why her history played out differently compared to her visitor, eventually putting two and two together and realizing what had actually happened and what she had to do. At least at the very end she's finally free, but it was rough getting there.

6641964
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!

Yeah, time loops suck like that. I wonder if it is better or worse to know that it was your future actions which caused you to fail, instead of just your past ones.

To be honest, I found this rather boring. Normally I love Luna/Nightmare conflicts and Luna's early days, but this just didn't stick with me. It's well written of course, I just don't think it had as much of an impact as it could have had.

6640883
Clarification: my noting the extreme difference between the original and new stories was because I compared it to your Writeoff minific from two rounds ago, which was also called "Recurring Nightmare" and didn't even involve Luna at all. :rainbowhuh:

(Your submission in the Illusion of Choice results list even links directly to this story, which makes me realize that that's a pretty clever thing to do with the URL box — more so than just linking your FIMFic username, as I always do.)

6642671
Yeah, I ended up deciding that name was better than the original for this story (I'm going to retitle the other story into something else) and forgot that I had linked the other story to this particular story. I actually create a blank story for all of my writeoff entries (though I somehow doubt Flim Flam's Fabulous Fertilizer Fic is going to end up being a stand-alone short story for some reason :trixieshiftright: ). Maybe I should beg Roger to fix it.

6642321
Sorry to hear that, but fair enough! Hopefully my next piece will be more interesting to you. :twilightsmile:

There's a nice bit of fridge logic to this piece. Luna became Nightmare Moon in part because she felt nobody appreciated her. Yet future Luna induced past Luna to become Nightmare Moon so that Twilight could eventually save Equestria from Tirek. Thus, in order to save Equestria, Luna had to become a hated villain and get imprisoned on the moon for a millennium. That's quite a sacrifice, and future Luna is basically the only one who will ever know about it.

6644268
Yeah. And future Luna can't really talk about it - not without it being horribly depressing, at least.

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but I really love your user name.

6644438 Thanks :pinkiehappy: It combines my love of chemistry with my love of Kurt Vonnegut.

This story was pretty good. It had a singular goal, to shock the audience with a twist and show that Luna's rebellion was necessary. The Writing flowed flawlessly, and the dialogue seemed genuine. Characterization was great, and I liked how you used Luna's Ol' English dialect correctly unlike other stories that try.

Although this story has all these positives, because it relies on the plot that kick started MLP:FIM. It doesn't seem all too creative, besides for the twist on Nightmare Moon--Albeit a very good twist it was. I also felt that it went by just a little tiny bit too fast, but still slow enough to work properly.

All in all I'd recommend it for its great twist, excellent flow of writing, and great characterization. It gets a couple down points for the negatives stated, but I feel that the positives far outweigh them.

6821600
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!

Admittedly, it is something of a weakness in that relying on what it is about, the first section is something that is, intrinsically, something we have to some extent seen before - Luna's fall to being Nightmare Moon is certainly well-trodden ground.

Still, I'm glad that the twist and re-contextualization worked for you. Thanks!

I can't say this was a bad storyy. The execution was well done and it's certainly atmospheric and well-written. I can't honestly say that I can, for the life of me, figure out how the second part of it follows from the first. There's a disconnect there that I feel like I'm supposed to be able to pick up on the reason for, but I just can't tell what it is.

6644268 The problem is, if Luna had never become Nightmare Moon Celestia and her would still be bonded to the elements would they not? And would have their power to deal with Tirek.

But without Twilight and them being around, they wouldn't have thought to free or redeem Discord, thus meaning they would've gone straight to dealing with Tirek when he was at it's weakest and Discord would've never betrayed Equestria to Tirek

Presuming all this even happens and Discord even gets free in the first place due to shenanigans.

That's the problem with time travel, far more then just one or two changes happens, and so much could've changed in the meantime. Either way good story.

6824130
Reread the final seven paragraphs. If you still don't get it, see 6644268 's comment. Luna used the same spell that Twilight used in It's About Time to go back in time and set up the time loop where she became Nightmare Moon for the good of Equestria.

6824347
That explains a lot, but I'm also really kind of "meh" about it. I honestly just really hate time loops as a literary device, closed or otherwise. They never explain anything and stop making sense halfway through the moment you actually think about them for a secon.

Well, for what it's worth, I don't think this makes the rest of it any worse. I just wish the resolution of it had made any more sense.

Nice fic. But there are few plotholes.
Solar sun celebration was the anniversary of Nmm's defeat, not nightmare night.
Celestia and Luna would defeat discord, tyrek, chrysallis and sombra, because they'd still be bound to the Elements.
In this case, the creation of Tantabus makes no sense.
Twilight probably wouldn't even be born in nightmareless case. Sunset shimmer would never threaten Equestria, because Celestia wouldn't have the need to search for a student. If she would even exist either.

You will declare that you have brought about night eternal, and that nopony will see the Sun again until everypony knows that the night reigns supreme.”

Because threatening people always makes them love you... :facehoof:

Luna falling for this makes me want to curbstomp her. Hell, hearing this should have shocked her to the core. Not to mention, it's pretty stupid to trust something that comes back in time and tells you to go try to kill your sister... considering that it could also be a monster that's lying to you to get you to kill your sister so you can't stop it. Not to mention, was there really anything Luna heard that Discord or Tirek or one of the other monsters couldn't simply make up to take advantage of her emotional frailty? There was no PROOF other than a Cutie Mark (which Discord and changelings can mimic) and some very general Things Luna Wanted To Hear, which anyone watching her could pick up on.

6824347 See: Bootstrap Paradox. Twilight could not have gone back in time to set the loop going because it was the act of seeing her future self that caused her to act in the manner that caused her to go back in time.

There was no beginning. "It's About Time" was a funny story about a bad time travel trope. I wish all pony time travel had ceased with that episode.

Even if you were, without Nightmare Moon, you would never have been called on to save Equestria. You never would have bonded with the Elements of Harmony, never found the true meaning of friendship, never rose to be our equal.” Luna’s laughed mirthlessly. “Without you, Equestria would have fallen when Tirek broke free and stole all the magics of Equestria. In a way, the petty pride that lead to my foolish rebellion saved us all.”

And Luna proves herself completely idiotic. If both Luna and Celestia had been there from the start, would Tirek ever have gotten out? There's no possible way she can even predict remotely the outcome of an alternate time line with event causality altered for 1,000 years! Hey Luna, if you hadn't rebelled, then you and Celly would still be bound to the Elements and been able to blast Discord the instant he broke free, assuming he still did... he probably would have... but perhaps without Celestia working toward your return she'd have been able to pay closer attention to his statue, and you'd be there as well.

The assumptions she makes are exceedingly short-sighted and irrational.

If anything, it proves the only inescapable thing is one's own lack of wisdom.

6644268 It's also suffers from a severe initiation paradox. In this story, Luna wouldn't have become NMM unless Luna from the future came back to the past and told herself to become NMM... so, how did that time loop have a beginning? Remember, if she became NMM ORIGINALLY... then what would be the need to travel back and initiate it herself from the future? This loop could only have a beginning if something else went back and interfered somehow with the intent to cause BAD THINGS from the altered timeline. BUT... how would Luna then know to go back and set things right since she too would be part of the altered timeline?

It can't happen in anything less than a convoluted story, perhaps involving the Baddie spilling the beans to someone in the future, who then tells Future Luna, who then goes back to change things back... which means she'd then interact with the Baddie in the past... but if she did that right then she could stop the Baddie before Past Luna is interfered with... and if she didn't and Luna in the past saw her then how would she explain NMM... so she'd have to go back as NMM and stop the baddie while cackling evily and pretend that the Baddie was actually there to stop her from becoming NMM and ruling the world instead of setting up events such that the Baddie would be stopped in the future... but then she wouldn't need to go back and do this the way in the story because the event with the baddie would already have set the events in motion as they-why does everything taste like copper? :derpyderp2:

The loop in "Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban" also suffered from initiation paradox, but not as severely as this since the events as a whole were already in motion (still the parts where the future Harry and Hermione interfered cause problems with the plausibility. It's less heavy-handed, however, and so it feels more plausible, even though it's actually not. That's where subtle writing comes into play... force the implausibility to become apparent only in Fridge Logic when the audience has time to think about it. If they figure it out even before the scene is over... then your fridge has overheated and spoiled all the tasty literary treats inside.

Or, as in "It's About Time", treat the implausibility as a parody which de-legitimizes it within the story's own setting and makes it acceptable.

I really liked the twist, but I have to admit that my attention was drifting as you were trying to reach it. I thought the prose itself was fine, so my reaction is due to either the setup being one that's been done many times before (which is quite likely; I can't remember any retellings of that scene that have ever seriously impressed me), or it may be due to something about younger Luna's characterization that bothers me. I suppose that again would be due to the scene being a commonly used one - there's only so many ways to write her with the constraints given.

7078551
Yeah, that was pretty much the common note of feedback on it.

I think there's a few reasons why those scenes really don't have much impact, but I think one of the largest is that it is a foregone conclusion - you know how it all pans out, and whatever you're doing with it, there's nothing really that is going to change that all that much. Thus, no matter what you're doing with it, to some extent, you're going through the motions.

I'm not sure how to write this story to set up the twist properly at the end without that scene, though. :fluttershyouch:

I'm glad you liked the end, though. :heart:

Not bad but I always found Luna's backstory to be shallow.

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