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An entry into the fifth Ponychan Conversion Bureau Writing Event as organized by Krass McWriter. Following the PROMPT: “Simply put, write a continuation, prequel, or spinoff of someone else's TCB story.” This continues BronyOfSteel’s classic short story 'Ten Minutes', taking it from nihilism to joy.
After several requests, both on FimFiction, and by email and irc, I have finally decided to publish this piece. Needless to say, it was ignored in the writing event itself, but it did seem to have a few fans nevertheless. This version has some new, additional opening material as well as spot art based on the cover.
I hope it finds a warm audience here.
This also marks the only time in all of my stories that I have alluded directly to an Equestrian afterlife, which makes it special to me.
And lastly, this is not an attempt to minimize the original story by Brony Of Steel - I call his work a classic of the Bureau mythos for a reason, and I chose his story because I like it so much.
I just wanted to take it in a new direction, and see if I could take dark nihilism and turn it to something ultimately sweet and wonderful, as a personal challenge to myself, and my writing ability. Ten Minutes is pretty damn dark, so it was a worthy challenge, I felt.
>>633835 I wouldn't worry about it being ignored in the writing event. Everybody ignores the writing event, even Krass 
I liked it, although I am... sad, in a way, that the tone of the universe it is written for is changed so dramatically. I, personally, enjoy all the takes on the Conversion Bureau universes for what they are. I wrote a grimdark one where mankind nukes itself and Equestria ascends. Ten Rounds was the "cute and cuddly pastel zombie horde" type where horrific body-horror (mind-horror?) was the order of the day. My stuff where, as closely as possible, I was attempting to build a rational world that I see as relatively honest towards man and pony is basically pure escapism and inescapably light. Your own universe, far more realistic and gritty than mine, is much richer for examining what it means to be human, and then of course we get all the others that have fun with task forces and road trips and crazy monsters. I love them all, including the 1984-alike where mankind, in its eternal hubris, has triumphed over ponykind, with all that entails. And so back to this one; I enjoy this one, but it is not written within the universe it comes from. That lessens what the original was, but it was done for a reason I can agree with, in that it creates something else. Maybe lessening is the wrong word, it's rather negative, after all. Ten rounds was built on fear and paranoia, and the unassailable platform that Mankind Is Always Right, and Mankind Is Better. I don't have to agree with that to enjoy the scenario (strange as that may seem. Personally, if I was forced to agree with what I was reading, I could not), which is why changing that is unsettling. It's worse, in a way, because that means that all the death and destruction was meaningless - and in a way, the life of those converted is meaningless - because it's all for the glory of Celestia, and the happiness is unrelated to any actual state of living.
But then again, all sacrifices like that are ultimately worthless. In a thousand years, the greatest hero and the greatest villain are just footnotes in a history book. In ten thousand years, nothing will remain. In a hundred thousand years, less than nothing. That is the timescale Celestia lives on. She saves, in her eyes, mankind from eternal darkness even at the cost of their mortal lives because she gains their immortal souls, and it is that immaterial gain which she seeks.
That's kind of frightening. Understandable, but frightening, and truly is something that only a god can appreciate in full: every sacrifice by a human was futile, every life for a pony was just a mote of dust in the wind.
I need to go lie down now, I've depressed myself.
>>635931Unfortunately, TCB is a very polarizing setting of ponyfic.
It's very hard to be one of the fence sitters, like me, who can (without necessarily "swallowing the Kool-aid"' as it were) appreciate the story for what it is: escapist fantasy. Unfortunately some of the themes leave a bad taste in some readers' mouth... and it isn't synthetic grape.
I don't agree that this is the first time you alluded to an Equestrian afterlife. While it is true that this is the first time that you (practically) outright said there was one, you also referred indirectly to it.
The first time was at the end of The Taste Of Grass, when Caprice is reunited with Alexi. The second time would be when Derpy/Ditzy mourned how humans would be completely gone after their deaths, on account of a lack of magic.
Again, I do admit this is the first time you outright claimed the Equestrian afterlife existed, and I'll stop my inane ramblings here before I unintentionally insult anyone. Loved the story, I have no idea where all the thumbs down come from, and now I'll go and read Ten Rounds/Minutes.
not all the stories have the ponies as the good guys. some of the best TCB stories have the humans who fight for their own right to be human.
it varies of corse due to each branch of the TCB universe..
the main one has the boundries of equestria expanding (under no ones control) slowly so that it is inevitable that all the humans will be ponies or dead.
the Yellowstone variation has the boundries stable but magic is weaving through thus causing death and humans and ponies team up to help.
and then there are those that are out of the two. the ones that have variations. chats New Universe versions are some.
but basically.. there is no good guys or bad guys in the universes. just groups.
there is the normals
Equestrians: kind of like americans "bring us your tired, weary, huddled masses" but they dont demand you become one of them. the choice is yours.
humans: the average joe somebody. they choose either path due to circumstances (no jobs, survival against the barrier, or a better life)
then there is the extremists.
HLF: the human liberation front, they are the guys who if they lived in the time of segregation would be wearing white cones/hoods on their head. they hate because equestria is "invading" and "converting"
PER: ponification for earths rebirth. they are the ones who wont give a choice. they do underground tactics.. invading bases and underhanded tricks just to turn the average joe or HLF member into a pony.
both sides have a bad streak. both sides have the extremists.. and if you think that is not how some people would react to this? i have four words for you to consider. slavery, segregation, gay marriage.
how many of those have faced opposition due to close-minded people?
>>636048 "Nazi-like genocide look like a good thing"
>>635913 "Why so much hate?"
I am unsure if technical genocide is actual genocide. The ponies themselves do not commit genocide - they offer conversion, which humans can take or leave. In my TCB stories Celestia is technically committing genocide, because she is responsible for the expansion of Equestria, but in the majority of TCB stories she is not to blame at all - it is just two universes colliding. That was the original concept and is likely the concept in the majority of stories. I am pretty much to blame for suggesting the notion that 'Celestia Done It'.
Don't paint the TCB mythos with 'Celestia Done It' just because I wrote a few tales with that spin.
But does it really matter - really matter - if a particular genome is lost, if the individuals themselves are saved? If there were a medicine, one that altered the human genome to prevent disease completely, and extend life dramatically, would not most people want it and take it if they could? If it were made available to all, in the end, the human genome, as we know it, would vanish forever. We would become a new species, and need a new taxonomic nomenclature. It would be genocide, but not a single person would die. They would just be changed at the genetic level.
Should we call the future doctors of such a scenario 'Nazi's' and condemn them? Should we mourn and shriek about the loss of the original, faulty, human genome so filled with genetic diseases and errors and mistakes? Should we cry over the end of babies being born without eyes or limbs or immune systems, or claim that we are not 'us' any longer?
Would it make a difference if space aliens came down and offered us this serum to change our genes? What if they looked like ponies? Or squids? Or anything else non-human?
When we went from Cro-Magnon to Modern Man, Nature herself committed genocide on our previous form. Should we decry Nature for killing off an entire genome so that Homo Sapiens might exist?
The only reason to use the terms 'Genocide' and 'Nazi' with regard to the TCB genre is to insult it, to conflate it with 'Hitler', and in so doing to imagine ending the argument - for 'Hitler' is the final word, no?
No. Absolutely... no.
TCB stories are just the Singularity, transhumanism, painted up to look like colorful ponies. The war about TCB stories is the mortal luddite versus the gung-ho transhumanist who wants immortality and uploading and virtual worlds. If the Singularity future should ever occur, what humanity becomes will be far more different than merely becoming pastel ponies. Ponies are recognizable.
The real question here is not ponies - it really is "are we genes or are we thoughts?" My vote is clear - I vote we are our thoughts and memories, and the substrate, the meat, is not irrelevant, but it sure is faulty and needs an upgrade.
But for some, an invisible chemical compound, DNA, is more important than identity, it seems. They seem to think the console machine is the game, while I claim the game should exist on other platforms too.
What I think we may have here are console fan-boys. Only instead of arguing about how the PS-BOX is better than the X-3 or that the WEE rules all, it is fan-boys claiming that Homo Sapiens is better than Equis Sapiens, and I'm arguing for platform independence.
Celestia help these anti-TCB folks if uploading and machine bodies or genome-fixing medicines ever do arrive. Because it is the same story, and the same issue, and the same problem.
Yeah, I am in the transhumanist camp. I think we can do a little better than our broken genetic code. I want an end to mortality and deformed babies. I want a better species, and I support those even now working on trying to make that happen.
My stories are about that future, dressed up as ponies, instead of remarkably robust hominids, or completely unhuman machine bodies.
But I enjoy the 'fight the future' stories. I loved the original Ten Minutes. I don't think this work hurts that story - it stands on its own.
That does not mean, though, that I cannot enjoy writing an alternate ending that is happy. Why not? Why not a happy ending for those that might enjoy it, and to stir up discussion?
It can only end with more people reading Brony Of Steel's original work.
Chat, I think that people's biggest problem is that the Cellestia of this universe does *not* preserve the identity of people, and they have no choice in the matter. Their thoughts are censored and shifted to match those that Celestia finds appropriate. In that sense, they are not surviving at all. They're replaced with a creature that has their memories, but whose thoughts are not theirs. Moreover, it's an situation where dissension is impossible. No one can disagree. Ever. If they do? Their opinion is "corrected." They do not even have the option of ceasing to exist rather than allowing themselves to be mentally edited into a different, more palatable creature. Ceasing to exist probably isn't a great choice, but it's clear here that it's not even on the table. Get converted? Great, then you're a pony. Die? Great, then you're a pony.
The lack of choice combined with the thought censorship is what makes it seem so malevolent. At least to me.
This doesn't work for me. I mean, it's a nice try, but....
Despite all the speechifying about wanting Michael to accept their forgiveness, it really comes across to me as Celestia's desperate attempt to justify her own unjustifiable, unforgivable actions. The original story was a horror story, and this attempt to spin it into something less horrific just ends up making it even creepier than it was before.
The problem here, and the reason I down-voted, was that this looks like you tried to change the ending not because you felt that you could take it in a new and interesting direction, but because you were uncomfortable with the fact that the original work portrayed Celestia as something other than a paradigm of virtue.
This is the other reason why I down voted. What happened in the story didn't seem to be an intervention of any kind- it looked like the dude was tortured into accepting what Celestia wanted. I would have been fine with that, as it would have fit right in with the feel of the original work, I think, but because you treat is as the best thing that ever happened to him it just looks a little bit creepy.
Basically, this reminds me of Brave New World, with all the unsettling implications that come with it.
You had me worried there for a while hun, normally it takes an apocolipse to keep you away from the keyboard. Lovely continuation none the less Chaty, merges relitivly well with the existing story. An amalgam between your version of the CBU and boss's. A little preachy in places, but thoroughly enjoyable none the less
.
I'm very surprised this is receiving so many red points in such a short space of time though. Other than the one horribly obvious troll (you can tell by the generic nature of his comments that he hasn’t even read the story
), there hasn't been a single negative comment, most peculiar.
edit- strike that, some more posted while i was reading >.<
There seems to be some sort of queer backlash against the Conversion Bureau stories going on right now. A sort of bizarre putsch to overthrow what some think is the dominant paradigm, but which is pretty much my little take on things. Anti-Bureau groups, people writing anti-Bureau stories, and generally getting all worked up crying 'Nazi'.
Maybe our tiny, pitiably under-appriciated sub-genre finally got noticed by rabid Shakespear fans?
"What a piece of work is a man, How noble in
Reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving
how express and admirable, In action how like an Angel!
in apprehension how like a god, the beauty of the
world, the paragon of animals."
Of course my answer is always the rest of the speech:
"And yet to me, what is
this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no,
nor Woman neither; though by your smiling you seeme
to say so."
And... I think that is the problem, ultimately.
Nopony commented on the picture. Sad clown tears. Then again, I kind of screwed up the face of the soldier... he looks too much like Odo from Deep Space Nine or something. I re-painted that like five times. Maybe that's the problem, his face just became mush... I don't know. But the bomb! I'm proud of the bomb turned to stone in mid explosion! That worked, I thought!
I sure as hell ain't hating it, but I do like it a little. It's just that the ponies didn't realize what the f*** they were doing. They were destroying a species, a pure species, into human/pony beings. I honestly can say if my loved one was ponified I'd probably try to turn too but other than that, I'd prefer my humanity. Of course just in this situation I'd pick my humanity.
When it comes down to it, the thing that bothers me the most about this is that you clearly didn't get the reason Michael was fighting so hard in the first place.
He wanted to remain human. So did his companions. They didn't want to kill ponies until they got pushy with their forced conversion runs. "For their own good" or not, people have the right to be wrong. If Celestia is this all powerful goddess and ponies are truly "nice", they can respect others' wishes and let them live their own lives. Even if it is in the crap hole Earth has become.
I haven't read over all of this comment section, but I think I get the gist of it. Couple things I want to comment on.
People throw "genocide" around in these stories quite a bit, but that's not quite what's happening. Nah. It's more like those half-white aboriginal kids getting stolen from their mothers and being "raised properly". Or people being forced to convert to Christianity or Islam or suffer execution or banishment from their own homes.
Granted, my little spiel there isn't quite as valid once you write in the HLF Terrorist stuff. Swell move, there.
As to the technical aspects of your writing, the first half is a bit flowery for me. Not so bad when it comes to a short one-shot like this, but for a prolonged story it comes off as tedious and just tiresome to read. "Over-writing" can be as bad as over-dressing.
EDIT: Oh, and about your picture: Was he wearing combat gear? I always imagined him wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and maybe a bandolier and backpack. Armor and the like wouldn't really serve a purpose when you're trying to avoid getting hit with the Potion - it'd actually slow you down.
I love your writing style, but hate these stories.
Just saying. I'm not saying Celestia commits genocide (which she kind of does, but it's not that big of a deal.) It's the fact that she alters human nature. That's fucked up. From what I've read in your stories in this universe, new-foals are like, total pussies. They can't stand up for themselves in a direct way, and they just... I'm trying to think of a way to say this without sounding stupid.
I guess, they aren't cynical and sarcastic. Snarky and playfull ass-holes. All they do, is love and tolerate. I'm not that kind of person. And, if I were to fall in love with a cynical, sarcastic, snarky, and slightly bitch-like girl, I don't think I would love her if she wasn't those things. And being forced to love someone is wrong. But I guess it also depends on time-zone. If this takes place during modern times, I'd rather kill myself than be a pony. However, if it took place in a futuristic time, where life basically sucks and everyone is fucking misrable, I'd go along with it, but I wouldn't like it.
What I'm trying to say is, I don't question the morality of converting a species, I question the converson of a mind. The mind shouldn't be altered or changed. Which, pretty much ruins the point of conversion (Unless like, Equestria's magic is killing people) So I see why Celestia does it, to try and make people happier. But she FORCES them to be happy through conversion.
I get it's a choice to be converted, but if you alter their mind, then it's like, "My family got converted, okay. But now they aren't the same people and they never will be now. I don't want to be a pony, but if I don't, I'll be the black sheep of the family I used to love." It's just wrong to force that kind of decision on people. As a fifteen year old boy, I'd take suicide than go through with that. I like myself just the way I am.
Celestia want's people to be happy, we just want her to leave, so we can experience happiness on our own terms. She also needs to realize that, not everyone can be happy. Happiness is something that you must find and cherish, not be forced upon you, and taken for granted.
First of all, let's try to keep some perspective. The story was born out of a simple exercise to take someone else's story and write a follow-up to it. Some folks seem to be treating it like it was a hostile action on Ten Minutes. It wasn't intended to co-opt, retcon, or re-canon Ten Minutes in any way. BronyOfSteel's story still stands on its own, and frankly I'd think any author would be flattered that their story was inspiring enough to get other writers to explore it themselves. This is just Chatoyance's musing on one of an infinite number of things that could have happened afterward.
The main criticism I'd level at it is that, like in many TCB stories, the human characters are not given strong convictions. Michael was fully prepared to die in this mission, having fought and lost plenty along the way, but a short ghost-of-Christmas-past segment was enough to erase all of the hardness that comes with experiencing such things. He was prepared to die out of necessity, so why not out of pride? Out of spite? We're certainly capable of that. Bitterness alone is enough to make a man endure many things far worse than Celestia's little time-out. The I-forgive-yous, no matter how sincere they might have been, would probably come off as more passive-aggressive in that context than anything else. When I first read this I was actually rooting for Michael to refuse Celestia.
Some of this showed up in the themes of my story Railroad Seven-Three, where a human tries to explain to a pony why winning isn't always the motivation behind resistance. It's a fatalistic viewpoint that ponies probably would never have needed to adopt in Equestria. It's utterly foreign to them. In Aftermath here, a former human even exclaims "welcome to the winning side!" even though, as a human, "joining the winning side" would have meant compromising his beliefs and convictions. Zed and Armalite seem to get this.
All of that probably makes it sound like I didn't enjoy the story. I did, though! It's possible to enjoy and even—dare I suggest it?—upvote stories that don't turn out the way you want them to!
Let us consider all TCB stories with either an expanding Barrier or an ultimatum and take them to their eventual logical conclusion, the behavior of the ponies notwithstanding. Whether Celestia is pacifistic in her benevolence or if you take on the more militant version of her present in stories like Ten Rounds, Ten Minutes, Not Alone, et cetera, there will come a certain point in time. At this point, the remaining humans on Earth have chosen not to get converted at all, whether this choice is merely implicit or not. Now the ponies have a choice to make: does their love turn to tough love, or do they respect a human's freedom, even if it makes no sense to them? The PER is great vehicle for exploring this. If humans are pushed, their natural response is to push back. If you need an analogy, think of the glasses fight from They Live.
tl;dr version: Disagreed with the ending, liked the story anyway, humans gonna fight, They Live is a pretty fun movie
While I don't deny that this is, as usual, well written, I do join in the feeling in that it wasn't quite in the spirit of the intentions of the event. A few people have mentioned it and since its on my list of reasons, I'm restating it here: This doesn't feel like a followup story where you're writing for BronyofSteel's CB universe, it feels more like you retconning the events of Ten Minutes into YOUR CB universe. In Ten Minutes and Ten Rounds, the fic it was inspired by(or maybe its the other way around, not sure), the ponies and Celestia are clearly the aggressors. Basically what you'd get if the PER was officially sanctioned by her and then turned up to 11. Ponification not only remakes a person physically, but in major mental ways as well, not just in subtle ways like in your own fics. Its unmistakably brainwashing. I guess a lot of the 'thumbs downs' are coming from the fact that, in the context of the original story, Celstia's actions here do make her seem MORE monstrous than anything. Instead of just letting the serum run its course, she actually pauses it, then essentially mind rapes him into accepting ponification. There's no guarantee besides the word of those with him (all ponies, aka, the enemy which is already using a body and mind altering weapon as their primary means of combat) that anything he's seeing is real and not just a big illusion, which, Celestia being capable of flash-petrifying a nuclear EXPLOSION, would be easily within their powers, and actually more believable than believing what Michael was seeing was actually real.
Gah, got a little rambly there, sorry. Essentially, my point is that, in the context of the original story, this actually seems like turning the horror knob up to 11 rather than a 'good ending' sort of situation.
Anyone who invokes They Live, wins all arguments, in my opinion. That fight... Goddess that was a great fight scene. John Carpenter. Love John Carpenter.
And his version of The Thing? Just splendid. But I digress.
Defaloce - who's utterly brilliant Railroad Seven-Three (which sits in the top row of my own picks for personal favorites listed on my author page) was the first story I ever felt was genuinely convincing with regard to a human wish not to join the fairies... um... ponies. Now THAT'S a good not-converting-nohow story, and I cannot recommend it enough.
I couldn't do a non-tragic continuation of that story even if I tried. It made its case too perfectly.
Now I really like Ten Minutes. And Ten Rounds too, I might add. Love those two, and I think they are marvelous and needed works in the Bureau mythos. I wish I'd written them, frankly, but their authors beat me to the punch. That said, Ten Minutes has a couple of loose hooks to work with that I knew I could use to do a continuation into something new. I picked a story I greatly admired, that had a opening in the logic for me to work on. It's not a complaint... I just note it.
My 'Aftermath' as you'll find in that very first post up top, is not supposed to do anything but maybe get you to read the original, which I link to multiple times. Go read the original Ten Minutes. It is a great story.
And go read Defaloce's Railroad Seven-Three too, while you are at it.
>>638019 "this actually seems like turning the horror knob up to 11 rather than a 'good ending' sort of situation."
If so, then by definition, I am continuing Steel's original premise, aren't I? Maybe I failed at making a joyful ending, and only proved that Steel's conception was too powerful to do anything but reiterate. If so, good going Steel!
>>633835Chatoyance
(^ How do people do this comment thing? I hope I'm doing it right.)
I think I liked to believe that you'll be able to get a warm welcome from alot of your followers and your likes will eventually out number the dislikes as with most stories. I'm just wondering if that normally happens around here whenever a story gets uploaded here? I'm just mostly concern that the people who disliked this isn't because you're somewhat infamous due to the nature of most of your stories and the fact that you have your own section of TV Tropes and what they say about you.
Anyway, I just came by to say that I find it admirable that you keep fighingt for your beliefs and never back down. Just keep up the good work on your writing and your beliefs.
As for everyone else, she did it as fan tribute to BronyofSteels work and it's really no different from the "other alternate endings" that some bronies do with the actual episodes. In the end though, it's up to BronyofSteel's opnion on how he feels about this tribute story. I think he'll be okay with this.
Thank you Red Bomber (I love Bomberman, by the way. Just the best party game). Yeah, there could be some hate coming from the sources you mention. Even so, I do not comprehend how anyone can get so worked up about my silly, goofy, harmless stories.
For my entire lifespan, I have never felt like I belonged here, on this world. I've never identified with humanity as a species. I have always felt like... something else. I am told I have a unique view of things. Maybe I'm just encountering xenophobia. Hee! 
>>638189Chatoyance
I actually missed Bomberman and his adventures to be honest, did you know that the Wii didn't have the adventure one on purpose. That was a let down for me. Anyway, I thought people were getting worked up because you were actually serious about your stories. ^^; Then again if they were getting worked up and thinking deeply about them means your story is really deep and because they were serious is why people have conflicting opinions. Good story is serious regardless whether it's being silly or grimdark... I think I just had an eureka moment.
>>636362 And here's the problem I have with most people who support the ponies in these stories. The prblem is not transhumanism. Hey, I'd be the first signing up at a clinic to get mechanical enhancements (Just ask Adam Jensen, or JC Denton). The problem with these stories is the fact that after you drink the fluid, "you" aren't "you".
You're an idealized, pacifistic version of yourself. The kind who can't think of eating meat without being disgusted. The problem, in it's base form, is not that of turning into a creature with no hands. It's the fact that your personality is so irrevocably changed, the you that inhabited your human body ceases to exist. You mention that you think that the mind, the soul of a man is what he truly is. But what happens when that is changed, with force?
Here, I don't see a man becoming a pony out of his own free will. Rather, I see a man being brainwashed into thinking he wants to be a pony. He's confronted by those he let down, and put face-to face with a snide, controlling, egotistical "goddess". The world of ponies isn't a colorful candyland in these stories. It's, as TVTropes puts it, a Crapsaccharine World. One which has the appearance of a tastes-like-diabeetus Care-Bears-esque candyland, but under the veil is utterly horrifying and dysfunctional.
To be honest, you should be flattered. This is far more scary than the original. In the original, sure, there was body horror, but the characters stayed resolute in their beliefs. Here, you pull a Room 101. After all Michael, don't you love Big Sister and Celestia?
Not 12 hours, and The Most Honorable Lady Chatoyance has already rustled hundreds of jimmies with a beautifully written story. I read TM:A on Google Docs, and am overjoyed to see it finally brought over to FimFiction. Any praise that I could give has already been given, so I'll just walk to an empty intersection and yell "CRUSADE ME!" at the top of my lungs.
>>638306 "rustled hundreds of jimmies"
I have no idea what this means, and I could not stop laughing. I am out of breath from it. I guess I must be some kind of god damn jimmie rustler or something.
"Hey, Tex... ya wanna go out and rustle some jimmies?"
"Yeah, pard, so long's we don't get caught!"
Of course it could be just as likely that:
"Well hello there, sailor. New in port? How about you buy a lady a drink, and I rustle your jimmie for you, hey big boy? Ooh!"
It would be delicious on a calling card:
Lady Chatoyance
Professional Jimmie Rustler
"Let me rustle your jimmie!"
555-232-2323
LMAO! But that's not quite what it means. To rustle someone's jimmies is to really raise their hackles and to cause controversy and debate, civil or otherwise. and you have done that here, and done it well, O Most High And Excellent Queen Of The Ponyfic Writers. And a lot of people need that to happen to them, because if people don't get trolled or exposed to alternate viewpoints frequently enough, they tend to get on a high horse, pardon the pun.
Let's see here...
>Completely nullifying the original ending to the original story.
>The line "This continues BronyOfSteel’s classic short story 'Ten Minutes', taking it from nihilism to joy." implying this is somehow a better and happier version (It is none of these things).
>Paragraphs and dialogue devoted to nothing but how bad the humans are, including long pointless speeches about how because humanity is evil... because they are I guess, we're all bad and need to be ponified.
>Celestia a goddess who can do no wrong and cannot be stopped.
>TRU WUV between the main characters that makes me want to gag.
>Main human guy learning to go beyond his 'evil human self,' in the usual CB way that makes me want to call Simon Wiesenthal.
>Overly pretentious speeches on mankind and how we're bad.
>Lack of any support or even time given to the opposing viewpoint.
>Lack of any actual debate in the comments about the horrible ethics in this story and all TCB stories.
>Pointless ad hominems and discussions that don't discuss the quality of the story at all, with the couple of decent comments either ignored or those responding to them completely missing the point.
There, I've summarized the story and the comments for you all.
Yeah, my thoughts on this story, right here.
...Not what I was expecting when I was told it would be lighter than the original, honestly. I guess it is indeed lighter, in the same sense that Brave New World is lighter than 1984. All of the horror is still there, it's just masked with kisses and apologies and pastel ponies. ...I have to read something happy, now.
>Completely nullifying the original ending to the original story.
Yes? That was the point. It was a challenge to see if I could take it into a completely new direction. So, thank you.
>The line "This continues BronyOfSteel’s classic short story 'Ten Minutes', taking it from nihilism to joy." implying this is somehow a better and happier version (It is none of these things).
That depends on your point of view. To me, this truly was the happiest of all possible endings. Everypony happy. Everypony is friends. The world is saved. Even forgiveness is granted from the dead, along with the promise of an afterlife. It's like winning all the lotteries everywhere at once!
>Paragraphs and dialogue devoted to nothing but how bad the humans are, including long pointless speeches about how because humanity is evil... because they are I guess, we're all bad and need to be ponified.
Humanity is... humanity. I describe Mankind in terms of what it has done historically, what it does now, and what I personally have seen. The judgement of evil or good... is entirely yours. If you humans don't like what you see, stop doing it. Please. My characters don't approve.
>Celestia a goddess who can do no wrong and cannot be stopped.
Kind of in the job description of a deity. They say the same things about Jehovah, and I think that guy is a total dick. Tomatoes, to-mah-toes.
>TRU WUV between the main characters that makes me want to gag.
I worked with what was written in the original story. That was the point of the exercise. Come on, I didn't think Brony Of Steel did that bad of a job. It was just there as an established relationship.
>Main human guy learning to go beyond his 'evil human self,' in the usual CB way that makes me want to call Simon Wiesenthal.
Why? Do you think he'd like my story? Oh, that would be wonderful!
>Overly pretentious speeches on mankind and how we're bad.
I thought it was exactly as pretentious as it needed to be. I work in carefully measured pretentiousness. It's like salt. You have to rub just the right amount in.
>Lack of any support or even time given to the opposing viewpoint.
Oh my... I thought I was writing this solo. You know, from a specific viewpoint in order to convey a specific concept and a specific feeling?. I didn't realize fiction was democratic. My bad. How are we supposed to do this then? Are you coming over to my place to help me write, or do I go over to yours?
>Lack of any actual debate in the comments about the horrible ethics in this story and all TCB stories.
It all seems pretty clear to me - killing, torture, brutality and cruelty are bad, and kindness, love and tolerance are good. That's what I was taught. In the Bureau stories, Earth is toast, and the ponies are offering a lifeboat to an alien species. But, like any society, they expect the refugees to assimilate. Only reasonable, really.
Maybe someone should write a story where the Earth is doomed and the ponies refuse to convert any humans at all. They just watch them all die. Would that be better, then? Is that the more moral stance to take? If so... I don't think I can agree with your ethos. It seems really mean!
>Pointless ad hominems and discussions that don't discuss the quality of the story at all, with the couple of decent comments either ignored or those responding to them completely missing the point.
Yes, I noticed this too. I figure that there must be a lot of sad, lonely people who are just being Grouchy McGrouchy Pants types because they don't have any friends. I want to be friends. I hope they will try being nice because... it's nice!
Frankly, I don't understand all the acrimony. I mean, we're here because we all love the ponies, right? So, what could be better than getting to actually be the thing that is so beloved? Nothing! Especially if it comes with a guarantee of joy, peace, and friendship, and being able to get rid of all the dark, evil, scary, mean stuff inside.
Yet, when stories are written about just that fictional possibility, suddenly the ponies offering it freely are bad.
I have to say, sometimes it feels like there are a lot of fairly confusing people here sometimes. They like the ponies only as long as they don't offer a chance to become them. Wouldn't want that. That's all evil, somehow. Don't offer happiness and kindness! It's genocide!
I will never understand humans. Not really.
*sigh
While most of Chatoyance's writings are very fun to read, the comment section was an ass to read
The picture needs more blood
Since I've never read the original before, all I can do is post the kind of music I happened to listen to while reading this.
(In the same vein as Relevant Heavy Metal I suppose.)
Speed: 700 words per minute.
>>636428 Well, the original spin was "cute and cuddly zombies", this ending presents "the truth shall set you free" instead. Do you accept the author fiat of "Celestia was right"? Well, you kind of have to - within the bounds of the story itself. Is the discussion of this sort of changes interesting? You betcha, just know where the author fiat line extends to.
>>638234 I've said it before, and I'll say it again. And again. And again. Etc... anyway:
Some readers loathe the idea that there could be anything better than mankind. Man is, after all, the apex predator of our world. We like to think we're angels (even as a good number of us condemn everyone to a burning hell of torture forever unless they believe in the right beard in the sky, even if said people have or even had no chance to so much as hear about said beard in the sky). We like to think we can do anything, become anything, take on the universe.
That indomitable spirit is what makes me proud to be human, but what that means we have done is something that makes me ashamed. Mankind really is great at poisoning this planet we live on, torturing, maiming and killing members of our species and others, and falling to the depths of depravity whilst doing it. The curse and blessing of being human is that we have free will. Animals cannot perform evil, man can. That evil, mind, is also defined soley by us. I don't see a need to absolve sins I have nothing to do with and don't believe in in the first place to an invisible friend. There are sins enough, based in practical ideas of pointing out failure to increase happiness, than to contemplate some imaginary avatar eating a non-existent fruit in some fairytale garden and thereby condemning everyone, everywhere, to an eternity of suffering.
When you look at misanthropy, it is saying "mankind is evil" by fiat. Despite myriad calls that Chat's stuff is misanthropic, I have to disagree. She is brutally honest, and that honesty leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many. I just have to shrug and accept it, because I also see how wonderful people can be, something which is also written large across her adventures.
I wrote a whole blog post on this a while ago, I'm not going to link it because this is the TL;DR version - and it's still too long - which ends with "this is a story, presenting fairytale creatures which are, by fiat, better than mankind. Demonstrably. They offer what the religious right say we should all be doing to avoid eternal damnation, which is to give ourselves up to a higher power that loves us, and who will absolve us of our sins so we can live in a land of plenty forever, want for nothing, and be eternally happy and good.
What the neighsayers are bleating about is that heaven is Equestria, and angels are ponies.
I don't see the problem. Me, in my eternal hubris, reads a story like this and says, "Wait, so if I drink the potion, Celestia will take me under her wing, forgive me from my sins, wipe away all my tears, give me happiness and plenty forever, and I'm supposed to think this is a bad thing?"
>>639458 It's not that I think humans are superior, far from it, I just wouldn't want to be altered mentally. I could live being a pony, but I could NOT live being something that I'm not. They didn't jus wipe out the human genus, they wiped out humans totally. no more human mentallity, no more humans. I don't have a problem with a world full of overly happy, innocent ponies; I have a problem with them forcing me to become that. I'm not an overly happy, innocent person, and the thought of turning me into that kind of per-... pony... I'd rather die. My entire being is centered around me being a sarcastic cynical dick; take that away and what am I? Just another face among the billions.
>>639617 "My entire being is centered around me being a sarcastic cynical dick; take that away and what am I?"
I find this sort of sentiment fascinating, and a bit scary. To define identity as one tiny thing, or one tiny cluster of behaviors... to make such a small thing the definition of self... to me, that is weird, and also kind of sad.
It's a scary thing too - one transient ischemic attack, or worse, a full on stroke, could take that cluster away. And then what? You aren't you anymore? Eeek!
Worse though, to me, is the idea that the only individuality is some quirk. There are tens of thousands of cynical dicks in the world... actually probably millions. If that is your definition, you are already a copy of a copy of a clone of a standardized cliche.
I guess the ponification changes in my stories are not scary to me, because I consider my identity, my selfness to be quite expansive. It isn't just one thing. It isn't my drawing, or my painting or my sculpture or my music or my cartooning. It isn't my writing, either fiction or nonfiction. It isn't my model crafting or figure painting or even just being artistic in general, neither is it the fact I like tea but hate coffee, or that I like savory but am not overly fond of sweet. It's all those things, and more and more and more, a vast cloud of qualities no single one of which defines me.
There are things that matter more, of course, but losing any one, or any cluster is not a loss of 'me', any more than losing a leg would mean I was not myself anymore. I am more than my legs, just as I am more than any one cluster of personality traits. I have many facets to my self... there are moments when I am an adult, and a child, and silly, and serious. I cannot be pinned down as one thing all the time.
If I were ponified, then, and my mind changed as much as my body, to me, it would be the same as the leg issue. Losing a leg, or gaining two new legs, is the same as gaining a sense of 'herd mentality' while losing primary apex predator aggression. I am not defined by such tiny modules. I am a larger machine, more complex than how my aggression is set. My free will is not dependent on how strong my drives are, since I already have to deal with that as I am, like anyone.
I wonder if all the readers who think 'Ponification is killing people and making them into zombies' are not just selling themselves short - thinking of themselves as tiny little creatures lacking any complexity. I cannot accept that as true. You have to be as complex as me, because surely I am not THAT special or unique. So that means that you too have to be a thousand amazing things, and countless states of being and countless traits... not just one tiny, little thing like whether you are considered 'cynical' or whatever.
Being cynical is just one mood. Moods change, because the mind is vast, and the self immeasurable. Mine is. Yours has to be too.
Maybe that is all the fuss here is, about ponification.
People selling themselves short, imagining they are only some single, simple mask, rather than a rich, complex emotional and mental life. If one saw oneself that way, then even the slightest change would seem like death, wouldn't it?
Nobody, surely, is so simple. Can't be. I can't accept that.
Realize you are more than just an attitude. That's what I say.
>>639617 Well, you're looking at a limited viewpoint character from within the story, as well as a not-entirely omniscient viewpoint from without. Body horror forms part of the narrative (can you say body horror when it's mental as well as physical?) and it forms a lot of the fascination with the idea: just what would be be like to become something else?
There are few things we cherish quite so much as our minds - it's understandable, we spend our entire lives locked up in our own head, so something which fiddles with that is the ultimate in terror. There are diseases which eat away at the mind - dementia and alzheimers for example - and they are generally looked upon as amongst the worst ways to go because with every passing minute, more of you is gone.
If you can honestly look at a universe like this and say "that scares the crap out of me" then the writer has done something brilliant, even if you don't agree with it. Agreement isn't necessary, understanding is. Thus forms the basis of groups within the universe like the HLF, as well as PER, each with viewpoints and convictions held most strongly, and builds that essential milieu upon which the writer works his or her craft.
If you take away from this the decision you would not want to convert, then let that thought percolate through your mind until you understand yourself better. Stories like these, make believe, help us understand the world we do live in.
>>639670 Oh, I'm not saying the story itself was bad, I loved the story, I just don't believe in the morals of it. And to be honest, there isn't much that I CAN do. My main trait is my humor among my friends, which stems from my being. All I can really do, is game and write. Both of which would become obsolete in a world where the stories I write wouldn't exist, and where games don't exist. I could live with that. But then I would loose the very things that give me the ablility to do those things. And yes, mental disorders and diseases DO scare the ever living shit out of me! I had a friend who was once like me, then he took a pretty big blow to the head. Now he's not the same. It's hard to explain. He doesn't joke and he doesn't seem to feel any emotion at all like he's a sociopath now. I know this isn't the same thing as that, but to me it's the same concept. It takes away feelings and emotions, and replaces them. And I'm also not just a cluster of emotions and feelings, but a lot of me is. As I said before, there isn't a lot I can do physically, so I'm left with my thoughts, most of which are weird and insane! But that would all be taken away. And then, I really would be a shell. Sure, I can be happy, sad, excited, anxious, all those things, but almost 75% of the time, I'm as I said before: Just not caring, and ragging on everyone. (playfully) Which would mean that all I would be left with would be 25% of my normal emotional feelings, and either 75% missing, or 75% filled with happy-go-lucky sunshine and kisses. I don't want that.
While I can understand the stance some people take when they look at the world and see what humans have accomplished but at the price it comes with, it is not surprising many would think humans are vile creatures. But such a view would be a small and pesimistic way to look at the world and ourselves. It still leaves me curious at how people cannot look at what we are and be both amazed and humbled. We're the only animal that can contemplate and understand who we are and the full extent of what death actually means. A tiny speck of star dust that can understand the complex universe we live in and strive to understand more of it. Our sentience is both a blessing and a curse and we try to find an escape from this bleak universe through religions and gods and will fight and kill each other to try and give this false sense of surviving death credibility. It's a result from our instinctual fear of death driving us to find ways to try and prevent it, something all animals do.
We evolved to a point where we want to ascend from the brutal grasp of nature. Nature is not a peaceful loving place, look at it and you can see it is a constant war of survival among lifeforms ruthlessly killing and trying to outdo any competition. Also animals do commit what we would consider evil acts, rogue packs of dolphin males will rape and then kill lone females, chimps will torture a bird by ripping its wings off for no understandable reason except for entertainment. But humans are the only creatures that can look at these acts and understand, on a philosophical level that they can't, that it is wrong and we look at our own species and see the same flaws because we are not much different from them. That's the reason I find religious texts and things like the conversion bureau stories (especially the comments) so interesting. It shows our constant struggle between our animal side and our view of how we would like to be.
Something like a perfect race of ponies or w/e letting people into some kind of utopia and giving them all of this long life and no disease stuff is a neat story, but to seriously want to do that would be a cowardly escape from dealing with the nature of what we are. Many CB stories carry an almost religious stigma to them, almost like a pony version of the bible saying how we're naturally evil and we are only saved by basically giving up who we are and that's a reason a lot of people don't like it.
The problem I have when I see an author trying to compare humans (a real race that struggles in a real complex world) to a race of made up creatures (living in an unnatural utopia free from the dangers and instinctual urges that have shaped humans) in a serious manner. It is a folly since they're completely different . You'd need a species that deals with the same problems that we do without 'magic or perfect immortal gods leading them' to be able to make some kind of judgement on us as a whole and so far nothing comes close enough to judge how 'good' or 'evil' we are.
Lies! I actually participated in this event! Hell, theres a few fics here that are well loved and results of my events. Specifically spawning fromw the prompt of a Pony moving form equestria to earth to wrok a bureau, maybe even forced to do so. Also, I'm putting the next event into the planning stages. So MEH, My events are awesome.
Oh, and glad to see this here.
My thoughts on extreme negative responses to your stories:
Outlandish responses are rarely born of rational thought and one of the best ways to provoke an emotional response is to call in to question the beliefs of the reader. In this particular case the belief that humanity is the absolute apex of sentient life. Sadly our psychology is wired to categorise our experiences as simply as possible and this leads to construction of false dichotomies (See: Jocks/Nerds, Virgin/Whore, Good/Evil, Friend/Enemy, Like/Dislike, etc.) in order to reduce the complexities of thinking and decision making. We are of course capable of thinking outside of these bounds however it tends to be a higher order process carried out by conscious though as opposed to the subconscious judgement that occurs without thinking. Therefore if you are not triumphing mankind's achievements you must be condemning every aspect of humanity.
Of course this is completely unrealistic, it is certainly possible to criticise the bloodshed, violence and exploitation of people we have committed throughout history while still recognising all the good we have achieved eg. eradicating small-pox, enabling the free exchange of ideas through the internet and obtaining the mastery of engineering required to escape our own gravity well.
Still we can hardly hope to improve without first identifying our own problems, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Highlighting our flaws as Chaty does through TCB stories is a criticism of humanity. However it is not a statement that humanity cannot or will not improve. In Chaty's TCB stories a large number of humans chose to improve themselves by removing/diminishing the negative aspects of thinking imposed by our biology.
Perhaps Equestria is a little too perfect, but does that make it any less worth striving for? Our ability to overcome our own limitations is a defining characteristic of humanity. To be satisfied with our current level of achievement is to become stagnant and fail to improve. We can be proud of what we have achieved while being critical of flaws.
Just my two cents...
I apologise for the lack of coherency in the statement above, there was a point at some stage but it appears to have vanished as it's late and my train of thought has always enjoyed derailing itself. Beautiful story as always Chatoyance. I'm sorry that their tendency to polarise people leads to criticism of your works but making people think is always a valuable thing even when all it does is affirm their view. If only people thought a little bit more about what they do and why the world might be a better place. Alas, we can dare to dream.
"Oh no, internet points!"
>Yes? That was the point. It was a challenge to see if I could take it into a completely new direction. So, thank you.
This direction was basically a slap in the face to the original story though. That is my problem here.
>That depends on your point of view.
Using your own words here: "taking it from nihilism to joy. " This is entirely what you intended.
>To me, this truly was the happiest of all possible endings. Everypony happy. Everypony is friends. The world is saved. Even forgiveness is granted from the dead, along with the promise of an afterlife. It's like winning all the lotteries everywhere at once!
No, it's making the sacrifice of the main characters in the original story worthless, while having everyone under a banner that rejects everyone different from them.
>Humanity is... humanity.
Fuck you. I hear this same bullshit excuse from you every story, and you never go beyond that. Saying it's 'Just humanity' is a lame ass excuse from your own blatant cynicism and dislike for other viewpoints.
>I describe Mankind in terms of what it has done historically, what it does now, and what I personally have seen. The judgement of evil or good... is entirely yours. If you humans don't like what you see, stop doing it. Please. My characters don't approve.
Fuck you again. You go on and on about the history of man, acting as if you're some kind of judge. You're saying it's my viewpoint, while at the same time blatantly implying that you're the only one who's right. And stop acting like the viewpoints of your biased Mary Sue characters matter.
>Kind of in the job description of a deity. They say the same things about Jehovah, and I think that guy is a total dick. Tomatoes, to-mah-toes.
Celestia in canon is in no way invulnerable and undefeatable. And before you go into your stupid bullshit about how season 2 isn't real MLP, I'll at least concede it's debatable. But Celestia here raises the dead and creates basically rewrites reality. That's going from beyond canon to reality warping Eldritch abomination, once again making all the conflict pointless.
>I worked with what was written in the original story. That was the point of the exercise. Come on, I didn't think Brony Of Steel did that bad of a job. It was just there as an established relationship.
In here though it felt so sickening and force that I almost banged my head against a wall. There was no build-up or reconciliation, they're just instantly in love. The guy's practically forced to be with her in the end, seeing as he's brainwashed and all. There's no love, this is like a force marriage.
>Why? Do you think he'd like my story? Oh, that would be wonderful!
No, I think he'd dislike your avoidance of any accusations and criticisms in a pathetic attempt to look 'whimsical' though.
>I thought it was exactly as pretentious as it needed to be. I work in carefully measured pretentiousness. It's like salt. You have to rub just the right amount in.
And you rub it right into a bloody wound. This is a common theme in your stories Jennifer, and if you'll forgive me I'll actually go into some real literary criticism for once. So skip this, seeing as you don't like real criticism.
Having morals and ideas in a story is not a bad thing. The bad thing is how you present it. And how you present these things Jenny are what kills your stories for me. You don't have characters. You have soundboards for your own ideas that you relentlessly preach at any given opportunity. Instead of showing your morals and beliefs through your story, you show your story through your morals and beliefs. This is what we call an "Author Tract." This story can be summed up in just three sentences. "Ponies are better because magic. Humans shouldn't exist because genocide isn't a thing. And don't disagree with me or else I'll yell at you." It completely kills my enjoyment of this story, and is probably why people dislike it so much on the bars above. You don't have a story here Jenny, you have a religious tract without the religion.
>Oh my... I thought I was writing this solo. You know, from a specific viewpoint in order to convey a specific concept and a specific feeling?. I didn't realize fiction was democratic. My bad. How are we supposed to do this then? Are you coming over to my place to help me write, or do I go over to yours?
No, seeing as I wouldn't want someone who can't even think out of the box near me, and who can't come up with creative insults at that. This is another thing I dislike about your work and you personally, but I'll get into that more later. Let me just say right now though that refusing to even understand the other side only hurts your own understanding of the world as well. It's like refusing to understand terrorists motivations and instead thinking they're all "EVUL ARABZ!" with myself as the terrorists in this scenario.
... Wait. Fuck.
>It all seems pretty clear to me - killing, torture, brutality and cruelty are bad, and kindness, love and tolerance are good. That's what I was taught. In the Bureau stories, Earth is toast, and the ponies are offering a lifeboat to an alien species. But, like any society, they expect the refugees to assimilate. Only reasonable, really.
No, I don't refer to that at all. I'm talking about you either ignoring or talking about something completely different. You go on and on about unrelated topics without answering anyone's question and criticisms on this. Like now for instance.
>Maybe someone should write a story where the Earth is doomed and the ponies refuse to convert any humans at all. They just watch them all die. Would that be better, then? Is that the more moral stance to take? If so... I don't think I can agree with your ethos. It seems really mean!
No, being a sarcastic jerk to people online is mean. This story is a tragedy. Maybe a story where humans and ponies learn to coexist in peace? You know, like what the ponies and most humans would actually try to do?
>Yes, I noticed this too. I figure that there must be a lot of sad, lonely people who are just being Grouchy McGrouchy Pants types because they don't have any friends. I want to be friends. I hope they will try being nice because... it's nice!
... I'm honestly unsure if you're trolling me or not. That is how much you baffle me Jenny.
>Frankly, I don't understand all the acrimony. I mean, we're here because we all love the ponies, right? So, what could be better than getting to actually be the thing that is so beloved? Nothing! Especially if it comes with a guarantee of joy, peace, and friendship, and being able to get rid of all the dark, evil, scary, mean stuff inside.
Yes, we like ponies this is something completely different though. This is about your own hatred of humanity, and a love of a fictional utopia that doesn't even exist in the media you base it on. You insult and degrade others viewpoints without discussion on it, and that's why people are mad. The only other comments are people blindly praising you without reasons, or go on spiel's like your lackey midnightshadow.
>Yet, when stories are written about just that fictional possibility, suddenly the ponies offering it freely are bad.
Because of the reasons and conditions associated with it. If the Earth suddenly was about to explode, and an alien race offered to move us to another planet, I'd feel pretty grateful, and so would others. The thing is though that this is not the situation. Your story has those aliens insult humanity, have a situation on Earth which is nowhere close to where real life is or can be, and gives humanity the option of 'ASSIMILATE OR DIE.' That is the problem, which you once again seem to ignore.
>I have to say, sometimes it feels like there are a lot of fairly confusing people here sometimes. They like the ponies only as long as they don't offer a chance to become them. Wouldn't want that. That's all evil, somehow. Don't offer happiness and kindness! It's genocide!
I don't think you know what genocide means. Or Nazis for that matter if one of your above posts is any indication. Let us look at some of the general definitions of genocide on wikipedia, shall we? Here's the first one.
"By 'genocide' we mean the destruction of an ethnic group . . . . Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. "
This is your stories in a nutshell. The systematic destruction of a whole species through systematic assimilation, with the remnants destroyed through that magic barrier shit.
>I will never understand humans. Not really.
And I will never understand people who refuse to look outside their own worldview. Let's go on to some other comments now...
>Midnight Shadow is sense among the senseless.
"The only people that make sense are those that agree with me on everything!"
Fuck you once again.
>Some readers loathe the idea that there could be anything better than mankind. Man is, after all, the apex predator of our world. We like to think we're angels (even as a good number of us condemn everyone to a burning hell of torture forever unless they believe in the right beard in the sky, even if said people have or even had no chance to so much as hear about said beard in the sky). We like to think we can do anything, become anything, take on the universe.
I think I get it now.
You, and you as well Chat, don't get the fucking point as to why people hate these stories. It's not about who's better than who, it's not about bullshit salvation, it's not even about being a better species you fucks. It's about imperialism and genocide through the lens of assholes like you who can't even understand what you're fucking writing.
I'd rant some more, but honestly, what's the point? You and Chat are bigots. And before you go 'I'm not racist'! I don't mean that. I mean you're intolerant of anything resembling different opinions from your own. This isn't the first time I've seen it too. In Chat's first comment on the original Ten Minutes, she decries the death of the ponies, completely missing the point. In that deconstruction Minalruka (I probably misspelled his name) posted a while ago, you and Jenny went on for paragraphs on why he was wrong for thinking humans could be better people and insulted him mercilessly for that. He defended his points well and others chimed in to help them, but you both ignored their arguments and instead rattled on about your own bigoted worldviews. Again. And whenever someone tries to point out the ethical flaws in something like this, you all either ignore it or completely miss the point. You two and the rest of TCB fans can't look outside their own world view. You can't understand, you refuse to understand others, and isn't that kind of 'un-ponylike?' You refuse to see criticism. I think that's the sign of a bad writer right there.
I mean you go on and on about how Jenny is right because humans are just that corrupt and we think we're better, then talking about some blatantly religious comment about 'salvation' (For a bunch of atheists/agnostics you all are incredibly religious, not that that itself is a bad thing) without even getting the point. You want to know why I hate these stories? Because they wouldn't look out of place as Nazi propaganda if you switched the names around a bit. Change conversion from Germanization. Change the eradication from magic into Generalplan Ost. Or better, actually discuss these points instead of going 'Lalalalalala I'm right you're all wrong shut up.'
>I wonder if all the readers who think 'Ponification is killing people and making them into zombies' are not just selling themselves short - thinking of themselves as tiny little creatures lacking any complexity. I cannot accept that as true. You have to be as complex as me, because surely I am not THAT special or unique. So that means that you too have to be a thousand amazing things, and countless states of being and countless traits... not just one tiny, little thing like whether you are considered 'cynical' or whatever.
... Is... is that the stupidest thing I've ever heard, or is that just me? Am I going crazy? If I get a brain aneurysm as a result of these comments, can I hold the author responsible?
>Should we call the future doctors of such a scenario 'Nazi's' and condemn them? Should we mourn and shriek about the loss of the original, faulty, human genome so filled with genetic diseases and errors and mistakes?
>The only reason to use the terms 'Genocide' and 'Nazi' with regard to the TCB genre is to insult it, to conflate it with 'Hitler', and in so doing to imagine ending the argument - for 'Hitler' is the final word, no?
I don't think you took history class Jenny. Do you what a Nazi is? Do you know that you can't invoke Godwin's Law when Nazis actually are a good connection to what's going on here that you blatantly ignore?
Because I don't think you do.
>I have to say, sometimes it feels like there are a lot of fairly confusing people here sometimes. They like the ponies only as long as they don't offer a chance to become them. Wouldn't want that. That's all evil, somehow. Don't offer happiness and kindness! It's genocide!
What.
What.
What.
This has been explained several times by now, and it will no doubt be explained a thousand times more, but in the hopes that this will get through to you, it's not ponies offering the option that incites this rage and cries of genocide.
It's the PER (and ponies of this story as a whole) forcing the change onto humans. It doesn't matter if ponification is right or wrong. Forcing ones own way of life upon another is a violation of their choices.
I'm probably going to regret using this analogy, but let's say - hypothetically - you have a man who wants to share his love with someone. He goes out and finds a woman walking down the street alone. He walks up to her and says "Hey there, you look lonely. Want to come with me?"
The woman, for whatever reason, refuses his offer and goes on her way. The man is confused, but decides to ask if the woman ever just wanted to hang out sometime. He didn't mean to come off so strong. "You doing anything tomorrow? Wanna get some coffee or something?"
And so it goes. Months pass, the two strike up a friendship. Man wants more. Woman has her own thing going on. Man wants to share his love with this woman even more, but she doesn't want to go any farther. Not with him.
So he decides he's just gonna stick his dick in her. Because he's just being nice. She doesn't know any better, so he'll just show her the way. Yeah, she'll come around.
I think you of all people can appreciate the utility of the anvil.
As for this stuff about your apparent misanthropy manifesting in your critique of the various atrocities and tragedies in human history, the fact is you're not wrong. We're a species of screw ups with a legacy of screwing up. I do not hold that against you or your work. And maybe the ponies/aliens/angels/God/saviors do offer a legitimate way for us to ascend from our baser instincts, our curse of Original Sin, and we can all be reborn as a race of perfect pacifistic ponies and shed all those nasty little voices and urges that drive us to do these things.
It should be noted, however, that every way of man is right in his own mind. Something this story doesn't seem to grasp is that normal, healthy human beings don't tend to set living animals on fire or slash peoples' throats for shits and giggles. We don't kill or fight or hurt because it's fun. We do it because we need to. Because we're hungry, or scared. We all just want to be happy and safe. All of us. Even most of the Nazi party, I'm sure.
In short, one thing I think this story doesn't portray very well is humanity's reasoning for its mistakes. Which is fine and dandy if you want to write a propaganda piece and make a flimsy comparison of two sides, but if you want to write about actual people it comes out hollow.
I certainly wouldn't say boo if you did try; I'm a sucker for that thrill just as much as the next writer. Hell, the post-mortem ponification choice alluded to in Railroad was almost directly inspired by Aftermath. Now that I'm reading Option Gamma, though, I'm figuring that humans inclined to join the Railroad would probably also be inclined to consider... well, Option Gamma. That's what I love about indirect collaboration.
Again, while I do have some issues with how the story played out—and with how deprecated humanity is in your stories in general—I prefer to find merits and interesting ideas in what I read and focus on those. I've been on the Internet long enough to figure out that frothing at the mouth in comments doesn't really get me or anybody else anywhere.
>>639458midnightshadow
I think it's more of people wanting to learn from their sins and mistakes to become a better person or pony in that case, rather than being "Not Himself" when they go through the change. Learning and understanding is different from just knowing after all. But I like to think that reading and watching about bad stuff to learn a viewpoint and come up with a different opinion of the source is itself is the same reason as to why people watch horror stories. Horror stories normally end badly for the protagonist, but trying to understand why things go that way for that story is part of the thrill and fun, even when they disagree with it. Especially with the bad endings in video games.
Another thing that bugs me about these stories is one that may not be apparent on the first reading. The fact that since humanity has been irrevocably changed, to the point where their very psephology has been changed, human thought would no longer have any meaning. Over 3,000 years of cultural advancement, gone in the blink of an eye. After all, what would the use be?
Human philosophy would be forgotten. Names like Nietzsche, Locke, Hobbes, and Plato would be forgotten in no time at all. All literature would be "obsolete" on our path to "perfection". Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Shakespeare, Salinger, Burgess, gone too. Human film, the same. Coppola, Kubrick, Welles, gone.
It wouldn't just be the destruction of our current race. It'd be the destruction of our entire history. In several generations, human history would be but a memory. Everything our ancestors worked for would be gone. There would be no interest in Picasso, or da Vinci, or Michelangelo. There would be no one left to study the rise and fall of Romanticism, Realism, Modernism, Postmodernism. Humanity would be nothing more than a smear on the timeline.
Eventually, who your species was, let alone who your unique personality was, would die. No grave. No eulogy. Just nothing.
>>641249 AAAAAAnd that's another reason why I loathe the ponies in these stories. It wouldn't be bad if people stayed the same, and earth wasn't fucking annihilated. That kind of takes away the purpose of these stories, but if the human mind set stayed intact, we could start over ,and rebuild under the guidence, not rule, guidence of Celestia. We could loose your war-like ways OVER TIME. NATURALLY. Sure, there will always be human rage, but we could learn to at least control it better.
>>639523 In your stories however, it's always, humans are evil! Humans are defects, and need to be corrected! How is that not a nazi like point of view. I didn't want to bring it up, but you ARE commiting nazi-like genocide.
"Kill an entire species, and attempt to wipe away ALL their history, way of life, thinking, and make them exactly like you."
That sounds A LOT like a nazi point of view. Not all humans are evil, and wrong, and always battling. And ponies do it too! They haggle for prices, they get angry, they cheat, they steal, and they didn't even try to compromise with Chrysalis, they just kicked her ass.Ponies are far from perfect, and so are humans. That's what we are. Ponies are no better than humans, and vice-versa. So far, I think TCB The First Year, has done it the best. a lot of humans suck, but a lot of them don't. A lot of ponies suck, but a lot of them don't. The grass isn't greener on the other side. This is what I've been trying to say, it's morally wrong to interfere with other species ways, then destroy all their history, logic, world, and assimilate them into your empire. You know what that is? Imperialism. Regardless of whether I'd be happier, we deserve a desecion. Instead, The All Mighty Celestia, descends from the heavens, and says:
"Okay, you can either loose everything, including parts of your brain, and join us; or you can die. Have a nice day!"
It's just not right. Not only that, but, >>640235 is right. You say that we're the ignorant ones who're misguided and need to be "set straight" But you yourself refuse to look on the other side of the dirty, cracked glass. You're no better than us, and we're no better than you. That's how it is. And you've also passive aggressively been belittling other people's beliefs. You may not do it directly, but you are, in the sense that you simply refuse to see their side, and only percieve your own. I'm only fifteen mind you, and I know that emotions change over time, but nobody can naturally be what they aren't, and it's wrong to make someone become someone they aren't UN-naturally.
This whole conversation has just worn me out. It's like discussing politics or philosophy with a wall. It states what it thinks, then tunes everything else out. It lives in its own world, and takes no notice of what anybody else says or thinks. It won't, or maybe, CAN'T change the way it views the world. And I find that sad. You pity us, we pity you. Great, now we all pity eachother, fantastic. *sigh* I think after this nice little rant, I'm going to like... I don't know... go break some chairs from IKEA or something, because I'm so stressed right now. Philosophy, religion, and politics always get me worked up. Maybe I'll write. I mean, that's what a pony would do. Take its stress out in the form of art or something. I'd like to think I operate that way, but I got to say... breaking some chairs would feel REALLY good right about now.
Here's my thought: human beings have been around for 200,000 years, but only started acting like... us... about 50,000 years ago. So, to be fair, humanity as we know humanity is about 50,000 years old.
If you take a strictly Western European viewpoint, and believe only that viewpoint, ignoring all others, then we developed agriculture only 10,000 years ago. (If you take the view of, say, India, and lend credence to their immense libraries, then we developed agriculture about 30,000 years ago, rose to a fully technological civilization with three major superpowers about 20,000 years ago, and then nuked ourselves back to the stone age shortly thereafter. Please note that the West sneers at their version of human history.)
So, at minimum, humans have had 10,000 years in which to create a world worth living in.
During that time, it is estimated that over 100 billion human beings lived and died.
At no point, at no time, during any of that 10,000 year history was there ever peace on earth. Never was every person fed or sheltered. Never was there not slavery, ongoing war, and every destructive evil that can be imagined. Many, many times entire complex civilizations simply collapsed from greed and waste and corruption, the common destroyer of all human achievement. Note I did not mention war, war is an outgrowth of those three. 10,000 years of slaughter and horror, dark ages and nightmare. Occasionally, sticking out brightly against that constant darkness, are the few, brief stars of Man doing something clever or kind. Such moments are so rare.
Just how long does this species need, before it finally 'outgrows' its nature and learns to be nice? Another ten or twenty thousand years? Evolution doesn't work that fast.
If humanity is ever going to stop being murderous apes before it destroys itself and the planet, it will only come about because humanity itself is changed into something else. Could be machine people. Could be genetic engineering. Could be the return of Jesus and the Saints... it won't be ponies, sadly. But it sure as hell isn't going to be because we, as a species, ever 'grew up'. We're wired to be what we are.
If that doesn't change, we won't change. Because humanity is humanity, in all of its glory and its tragedy.
We've had at least 10,000 years to get better, and we have not. We have not changed one jot from the hunter-gatherer, territorial, violent apes we have always been. Only now, we have nukes and bioweapons. (Again, perhaps.)
That is why I am a transhumanist. I think Man, to survive, needs to become something better, and fast. It isn't going to happen naturally. Nature... doesn't care. Nature has no thoughts. It isn't a being. It just is.
I've said it again and again. For me, the Bureau is just the Singularity, painted up in ponies. Celestia is the Big Machine Intelligence, and the newfoals are uploaded humans with better software and hardware. Equestria could be a virtual reality world, or just the way machine intelligences see their machine world.
The fact that this story, this 'Rapture of the Nerds' exactly parallels God and Angels and a splendid Kingdom of God on Earth - only with ponies - is just additional mythic fun.
If humanity cannot give up it's love of the spear, it will end up impaled on it. Humanity is wired to hunt and kill and take, and as long as that wiring remains, Mankind will always do just those things, all the way to the grave of all life.
My stories are hopeful stories. They say there is something, anything, other than a steel-tipped boot stamping on a human face... for eternity.
That this notion - that maybe, just maybe, there is hope... could cause such anger and frustration and annoyance acts like blatant proof to me of the above. It's like a collection of case examples to me. What I hear is 'Don't take away my violence, because it is what I value most about myself.'
Humans are so proud of their violence.
But that there are a few of you who see hope, who see that there just might be something - symbolically represented by ponies - better, and see that hope for peace and kindness as happy... that is the one thing that gives me solace.
Wow. Someone is in a really bad mood. Don't worry, I agree with what you said 120%.
----------------
And JDR, here is the reason you got a downvote from me. The way that this story is written comes off as a retcon to the original Ten Minutes — and not in a good way. Instead of the main character dying on his own two feet as a Human with his mind intact; he is mindwiped and ponified against his will and turned into a smiling lobotomized zombie. The original story was so powerful because it was about how the man felt as his time ran out next to the nuclear bomb and how he died — of his own free will. This version completely erases that emotional impact and basically turns it into your standard TCB stories.
Finally, why did you deem it necessary to leave comments on Anthropology complaining that his depiction of Earth is too idyllic? Newsflash, not everyone has a boner for shithole dystopias. And leaving comments like that isn't a real nice thing to do.
Not to mention how heavy handed your ois it really necessary to flood
... Did anything of what you just said answer or even respond to any of my or others above points, or are you that deluded? Answer me, I'm honestly curious.
>So, at minimum, humans have had 10,000 years in which to create a world worth living in.
You don't know science, do you?
>If you take a strictly Western European viewpoint, and believe only that viewpoint, ignoring all others, then we developed agriculture only 10,000 years ago. (If you take the view of, say, India, and lend credence to their immense libraries, then we developed agriculture about 30,000 years ago, rose to a fully technological civilization with three major superpowers about 20,000 years ago, and then nuked ourselves back to the stone age shortly thereafter. Please note that the West sneers at their version of human history.)
Sneering at any version of history is wrong, and using all sources of history to build a comprehensive narrative is the best course of thought. However, no one is saying we should look at things like that. Only you are implying that you ignorant fuckhead.
>At no point, at no time, during any of that 10,000 year history was there ever peace on earth.
Technically there have been eleven since the last millennium alone. A small amount I know, but once again it shows you don't fucking know history.
>Just how long does this species need, before it finally 'outgrows' its nature and learns to be nice? Another ten or twenty thousand years? Evolution doesn't work that fast.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not discussing our points anymore, you're not even attempting to argue with us! You're instead going on some mega-maniacal rant about shit that connects to this situation only tenously!
>If humanity is ever going to stop being murderous apes before it destroys itself and the planet, it will only come about because humanity itself is changed into something else. Could be machine people. Could be genetic engineering. Could be the return of Jesus and the Saints... it won't be ponies, sadly. But it sure as hell isn't going to be because we, as a species, ever 'grew up'. We're wired to be what we are.
Holy shit, you actually want to be a pony. Wow, I honestly thought you were fucking us for a while. And you're downright immature arguments that mankind is destined to stay this way is not helping you at all sister.
>That is why I am a transhumanist. I think Man, to survive, needs to become something better, and fast. It isn't going to happen naturally. Nature... doesn't care. Nature has no thoughts. It isn't a being. It just is.
Fuck you. I don't think you know what transhumanism is. I don't think using science to overcome biological weakness counts as making humanity another species, and if so, that's not related at all to the scenario you describe. You make a scenario where a debatable decent change can be made, and if you don't take it you die. There's no choice, there's no progression to it, it seems like the exact opposite of anything trans-humanist honestly.
>My stories are hopeful stories. They say there is something, anything, other than a steel-tipped boot stamping on a human face... for eternity.
You're not even trying anymore, are you?
>Humans are so proud of their violence.
Because me and others are totally saying that. Yep, we just all love violence. That's the only reason we're arguing this. You're obviously- no I can't even be sarcastic anymore, just fuck you.
>But that there are a few of you who see hope, who see that there just might be something - symbolically represented by ponies - better, and see that hope for peace and kindness as happy... that is the one thing that gives me solace.
Wow, it's like a fuckin' cult, really. Jenny, get your hands away from the kool-aid immediately, I don't need a mass suicide to deal with... actually, go ahead, give your followers the kool-aid for all I give a shit.
So once again you refuse to discuss the points arrayed against you, the many points. You've all but admitted you can't stand other viewpoints, you refuse to even entertain the notion of a decent argument, and you're so unlike anything resembling a decent person that I think a pony that actually met you would be disgusted at your very presence. Fuck you, once again.
With the shit I read, of course I'd be in a bad mood.
>>641876 "Anthropology complaining that his depiction of Earth is too idyllic?"
Yes, yes it was. Because he had a chance to write a powerful story instead of a silly one. He had a magnificent premise that could have actually said something, rather than just being... a mere story. It could have been powerful, amazing, even.
I have lived on the street. I have been his Lyra, lost in a big city, without means. I have LIVED that scenario. And, I was just about as ignorant and vulnerable as his Lyra, too. Seriously.
And in my time, homeless at age 22, I learned what a city was for those who are not privileged enough to be poor. I met and knew runaways and the lost and the dying and the hopeless, the truly hopeless. I saw life behind the scenes of what the average person things is society. And it was amazing, horrifying, astonishingly noble at times, and also just the opposite at other times.
That you have a character from a sugarbowl world thrown into what I lived through... wow. It's bottled lightning. I wanted to see something profound.
That is why I told the author of Anthropology what I did. Because I saw potential there that was going to be unrealized, and saying something was all I could do. It's not like I can just steal his premise and re-write his story. That would go over well.
What is the point of comments for stories if not for just that? Comments are not just for metaphoric blow jobs for authors. As... we have seen right here, with all the vitriol towards me, I might add.
Vitriol I am not displeased with, mind you. If people are upset enough to say their mind with such passion, then that means that the writing has touched them - for happy or for sad - it has touched them. That is an honor, to me. I am honored by the anger as well as the praise.
Though to be honest, the anger still hurts. It does, because I have feelings, and... it hurts.
That said, I know that even the most angry person here, bawling me out for some failing on my part, is doing so because they give a damn. They care, in their way, and that caring means that my work, my effort, has some value of some kind. It made people think, react and discuss - even argue.
I thought Anthropology could have been truly brilliant. It's popular - far more popular than anything I will ever write - but that is not the point. It could have been brilliant. Meaningful, in a literary way. It could have said something about the world, about people, about life.
I said my piece, and I shut up. That is absolutely appropriate.
>>641865 So you're saying that being turned into a lobotomized machine that can only comprehend happiness is a GOOD thing?
As a side note, let me bring psychology into this- Nietzsche said (in one of the things we agree on) that the only reason we know happiness is that we have sadness. There are two prospects: To take the good with the bad, or to remove emotion from the equation. It's the sadness that makes us happy.
>Just how long does this species need, before it finally 'outgrows' its nature and learns to be nice? Another ten or twenty thousand years? Evolution doesn't work that fast.
Humanity is neither innately good nor evil. We are but a product of nature. No man goes out thinking "Gee, I'm gonna murder some innocents today, whoopee!" They just do what they think is right. You can't "learn to be nice", as no matter what, man comes into competition for resources. And in that competition breeds strife. It's nature. No machine or potion you force feed into our bodies is going to change that every man is diametrically opposed to the other.
>Note I did not mention war, war is an outgrowth of those three.
War is but a byproduct of said competition. Nothing more to it. Sure, it can be caused by greed and laziness, but those aren't the root causes. We simply fight for resources. It goes on in your own bloody story! Not enough space, so humanity and ponies square off. If you view humanity as starting wars left and right for n reason, you are a nihilist of the worst kind, and I pity you.
>Nature... doesn't care. Nature has no thoughts. It isn't a being. It just is.
As is man. Man is nature and nature is us. There is a reason why we use the term "human nature"...
>They say there is something, anything, other than a steel-tipped boot stamping on a human face... for eternity.
The problem is that this is what your story is. It's 1984, it's We, it's Anthem, it's Brave New World, but with ponies put on display instead of totalitarianism. There's a reason why in 1984, Room 101 is run by the Ministry of LOVE. The ponies aren't helping humanity, their lobotomizing them. After all, doesn't your main character, by the end of this love Celestia just as much as Winston loved Big Brother by the time he left Room 101?
>What I hear is 'Don't take away my violence, because it is what I value most about myself.' Humans are so proud of their violence.
You know what? I am proud of my violence. I'm proud my evolutionary ancestors fought tooth and nail for sentience. I'm glad that my native peoples didn't get wiped out by another faction of mankind. I'm proud that we prevented such horrors as totalitarianism, fascism, and Stalinism. I'm proud of human culture. I'm proud of my country's armed forces. I'm am honored to be the cynical, sarcastic, intellectual human that I am. You say that this is universal peace. Well if I have to change the nature that's been pounded into me by my personality, indeed my soul, as you put it yourself, I don't want any part in your peace. Because it isn't peace, it's submission. And If I know anything about humanity, it's that we fight damn hard for our freedom.
>>641924 "Fuck you. I don't think you know what transhumanism is. I don't think using science to overcome biological weakness counts as making humanity another species, and if so, that's not related at all to the scenario you describe. You make a scenario where a debatable decent change can be made, and if you don't take it you die. There's no choice, there's no progression to it, it seems like the exact opposite of anything trans-humanist honestly."
In my stories, I have pointed out multiple times that humanity always had the option of going into space, and settling the moon and mars to avoid ponification.
I point out that Man did not do this for the same reasons that there are not moon colonies right now, and why there is only a primitive collection of tin cans for a space station up there, instead of, say, the wheel from Kubrick's 2001. We could do all of those things with current technology. We have been able to do all of these things since 1969, when I watched the first moon landing. Humanity just gave up. It never was about exploring space or making colonies. Not ever.
So in my stories, if Man faces ponification or death, it is purely because of our world, now, right now. It is because of reality as it is.
I would like to point out that my future history is a description of humanity as being vastly more noble, kind and responsible that it ever has been, Insanity.
In my future, the Worldgovernment has declared peace. There is no war. Nineteen billion people are fed and watered every day, for no other reason than human kindness. We could do that today with our seven billion, but we do not. We never will. We never have. My humanity is better than reality, even with the favelas, and the destroyed ecology, and Japan being a radioactive death zone.
And in the end, my humanity, the humanity of my stories, chooses to build the Bureaus to save even the poor people, and not just the rich and elite. Consider that in the light of what happened with New Orleans and Fukushima and the current homeless population and the banking scandal and...
Really think about that, Insanity. In my depiction of humanity, the powerful, elite of the world have a conscience, and they have given up war-for-profit, and they have chosen to use all the wealth to save as many people -ordinary, poor people- as they possibly can.
Can you honestly believe that of our real world, as it is? It certainly isn't happening right now. It never happened before. Do you honestly think the wealthy and powerful are miraculously going to have a change of heart and be as nice as the worldgovernment of my Bureau stories? Are you fed for free? Is that ever going to happen?
In my stories, the world knows that they missed the space angle. They admit they failed. And rather than cover their asses, my ruling elite work to save every last human, even the poorest, because of conscience. Humans actually doing that. And not because they are forced to.
I clearly write fantasy, don't I?
I had to sugar-coat my future humanity. What do you think my stories would be like if I painted Man as he acts today, right now? Truly dark. Unreadably dark.
As for remaking Man through technology... of COURSE it would make humans a different species! I am not the first to recognize that. It's the whole debate over whether transhumanism is 'moral' or not. 'Do we have the right to change humanity into a brand new species?' It often degrades into religion and 'god's image' crap. If you fix the human genome, by definition you create a new species. It says so on the label.
"You don't know science, do you?"
Yes, I kind of do. That is my college background, actually, thanks for asking. Medical Biochemistry, if you must know. It's why I can talk about medical and scientific matters intelligently in my stories. To be fair, though, I got bored with that, and went into being a game designer for about 14 years. Then a cartoonist for a decade, and now a writer.
But thank you for your kind attentions.
Okay Annoyance, you've responded to exactly one of my points now. The one that's only tangentially related to the actual content and morals in your works and stories. How about you actually respond to a point that refers to your writing skills now instead of:
A) Ignoring them.
B) Insulting them almost blatantly like you continue to do now.
C) Going on overly pretentious rants that are barely related to the topic at hand.
If you do that, you might actually look like a sane person for once!
Because if not, you're just gonna keep wasting my time with your useless babble. It's like listening to a brick wall that has Tourette's when talking to you, a prattling mouth with next to no real content. Can you explain how any part of that post above explains yourself in a way beyond "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up!" Because that's all you fucking say. You're like a broken record that plays "We Built This City" all the time, it just won't stop playing the same terrible sound every goddamn second.
While you have thin moral fibers Chat, mine are thick and juicy like a true American. Also that a person as old as you (You're above 30, right?) can be so thick and disingenuous kills the notion that elders are somehow wiser than the rest of us. You probably think I care about this terrible story in all your works, but honestly I'm only sticking on because I feel like I have to at least try with you by this point. I feel like I have battered housewife syndrome with you, I just keep coming back for more.
And thank you Chat for once again wasting both of our times by being a completely asinine, terrible example of a person that does more to confirm her biases against humanity than anyone else. Truly you are a saint.
You are SO angry, NoMoreSanity, that I am not sure what you truly want from me at this point. How about this then - if you have a single issue, just one, not a giant list - that you want addressed, offer it. I will do my honest best to respond. Maybe that will work in a way that will be acceptable.
"HLF: the human liberation front, they are the guys who if they lived in the time of segregation would be wearing white cones/hoods on their head. they hate because equestria is "invading" and "converting""
That's a terrible analogy. Yeah, I'm sure the HLF would attract those sort of people. But if someone told a black person or Asian that their race is no good and that they need to take this magic elixir to be transformed into a Caucasian, the mere offer would be offensive in and of itself and it would be telling of the attitude of the person making the offer. In some of these stories, the ponies act like jingoistic white Americans during the latter half of the 19th centuries who tried to force Native American tribes to assimilate into white culture *against* their will (I wouldn't have had a problem with if the Native Americans chose to be assimilated so but only because I have some libertarian leanings). Seriously, can you really cause the HLF's goal of stopping an alien race from assimilating humanity? If we replaced ponies with the Borg, most people would be cheering the HLF and calling him 'heroes'. Does being cute and fluffy excuse forced assimilation based on a belief of racial superiority?
And that leaves me to another pet peeve about the CB stories. Part of the downside to CB stories is that it makes the ponies out to be racists, at least some of them. Blaze's original story had Pinkie Pie acting like a complete racist. This is the same Pinkie Pie who had no problem making friends with griffons and donkeys and anything else that wandered into Ponyville. I can't picture the Mane 6 or the princesses going along with ponification let along have such a piss poor attitude about humans. The ponies don't have a problem with the other races unless they were hostile like the dragons or there was some sort of misunderstanding like with the bison. I toyed with the idea of writing a CB story where the serum was entirely a human idea and that the princesses either didn't want anything to do with it or went along with it only because they felt sorry for the newfoals who were being ostracized by the rest of humanity for being race traitors (I probably won't write it though, but the idea crossed my mind).
So you only want to answer one thing that I choose instead of the numerous responses you've received already yet choose to ignore save for a few that don't relate at all to the topic at hand? Also you're implying I'm angry with you instead of just massively annoyed, Annoyance?
Geddit, it's because it rhymes with your username?
Hey, you did no better when you referred to me as Insanity as above. :l
But if you're honest about this, which I doubt, here's my question: Have you seen Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd? If not I recommend you do, it's an excellent musical that I think you'd enjoy greatly.
No no no, in all honesty here's my actual question. "Why do you like insulting people for thinking different from you?" I've seen you go on for paragraphs now about how everyone else is wrong because you're right without offering any evidence that's not objective, instead only seeing things through your viewpoint. You've been nothing but rude, condescending, and sarcastic towards those that honestly criticize your story for its flaws, which is the exact opposite of how I thought a writer like you would act.
On the idea that censoring the thoughts of former humans, no matter what those thoughts may be, can ever be a good thing:
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." -Captain Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation, "The Drumhead"
I am fine with constructive criticism/suggestions delivered politely and in a non-pestering manner. What I am not fine with is if someone repeatedly more or less demands that I do something and I tell them that it is not my plan and they keep on insisting that I do [blank]. That was what you were doing with Anthropology and then you left a rather bitter response before you stopped commenting on his story (and defaved it, I assume).
Finally, you seem to assume that all authors write tracts like you. Here's a tip; not every author writes stories to deliver messages! JasonTheHuman more or less stated that his story was supposed to be a comedy. Instead, you excoriated him by telling him — and rather rudely, I might add — his story is now worthless.
And yes, I would like to see you answer NoMoreSanity's valid, if caustically worded points.
Finally, are you aware that Equestria in the show isn't perfect? And neither are the ponies? Do you ignore the fact that they could be just as racist as any Human (Bridle Gossip)? Or the fact that NMM tried to kill everyone in Equestria (Season one pilot)? Or that Trixie's a huge narcissist (Boast Busters). Even discounting season two, there are plenty of instances where the ponies are far from the paragons of ideal behavior you make them out to be.
"Hey, you did no better when you referred to me as Insanity as above."
That actually was an honest mistake. I read your handle wrong. I didn't mean it as an insult... it was just a derp on my part. 'Annoyance' is pretty funny though. You can call me that as a pet name if you like. It's kind of cute, in a way.
"But if you're honest about this, which I doubt, here's my question: Have you seen Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd? If not I recommend you do, it's an excellent musical that I think you'd enjoy greatly."
I did see this. It is one of my spouses favorite musicals, actually. I thought it was very well done, and some of the tunes were pretty catchy.
"No no no, in all honesty here's my actual question. "Why do you like insulting people for thinking different from you?" I've seen you go on for paragraphs now about how everyone else is wrong because you're right without offering any evidence that's not objective, instead only seeing things through your viewpoint. You've been nothing but rude, condescending, and sarcastic towards those that honestly criticize your story for its flaws, which is the exact opposite of how I thought a writer like you would act."
That's kind of a complex question and has not a little of the 'have you stopped beating your wife yet, Senator?' about it. There are some moments when I get angry, as any person does, and I can become sarcastic. If I feel like someone has insulted me, I can become rude. But a lot of what goes on in text is so very easily misinterpreted. Without the vast amount of information provided by tone of voice, body language and facial expression, a sentence that was meant innocently, or forcefully, or seriously can come out sounding like an insult, or as condescension, or condemnation.
That said, I cannot claim I am immune to making errors about such matters. In my feelings, you have been doing nothing but pointlessly attacking me with empty statements that seem to hold no points to answer. Seriously, that is what I am mostly hearing. In my intellect, I find it hard to accept that this is truly the case, which is why I am trying to answer here, trying to make things work out, if I can.
In that respect, I am a divided house - my emotions tell me one thing about your comments, my intellect is trying to make me not take it all that way.
May I offer that, perhaps, we both may be taking a lot of things not in the spirit that they were intended, and also quite a bit harsher than they were intended? It may be that we are simply having troubles communicating correctly. What you are asking me, perhaps I am not parsing correctly. And my responses, perhaps are not working the way I imagine.
This is not to say there has not been any snarkiness on both our parts, that probably is true. But... Perhaps also not as much as either of us imagines.
Your statements seem to suggest you see me as being quite rude, but I kind of feel the same way about you. I am at a loss to comprehend what I see as your rudeness to me, as doubtless you may feel with regard to me.
For what it is worth, I am just plain confused now, but I assure you that I bear you no ill will, and if I had my preference, there would be no more... unpleasantness at all.
Is any of this... sensible? I am kind of in doubt about whether I am saying things in a way that... works... or not. I feel unsure, at this point... of getting my point across.
>>642938 Another thing, is that you ignore others who agree with them. You target their "Ring Leader" and leave their followers out. It's like, you answer one of their comments to see which catagory they fall into... his or yours.
>>642753 And I also agree with him, your comment on Jason's story was really un called for. Also, you claimed to know what was going to happen, and Jason threw a massive curveball. You should never say, "I know what's going to happen next! This story sucks now!" Especially when the author can read your comments.
Also, saying things like "He's a bad writer, and that his story's bad", is one of the most arrogant and narcissistic things a person can do. It also makes you look like a total ass.
I'm not saying you need to change your way of thinking, but try to see things from other people's point of view (Something I know can be hard for people like you) But you might be able to learn a few things. You aren't the greatest. There will be people better than you. People will disagree with you, and you can't just ignore them or outright say that they're wrong. I know you've probably heard this a thousand times, but you need to take it slow, and try and see it from our perspective.
>>642302NoMoreSanity
NoMoreSanity, I like your deconstruction of The Conversion Bureau series in general in your story before, I really do. It's just that when you're arguing with Chat, is that YOU'RE the one that's going on with the "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude. I haven't seen anything in your side of the arguement that has debunk Chat's Strawwoman Has A Point moments. Maybe I'm actually being wowed by the (sarcasm/)Big Words(/sarcasm) used by Chat, but I haven't seen you pull up any facts, news, or events that actually show how much good as we humans as a group and nation does in the same manner that Chat has done to show how terrible we've done. As a College Student, the classes that I've went to (Mostly English) taught me you have to bring up examples from different sources or from the source itself to help you get your point across; otherwise, they will mostly fall flat and weak overall. All I saw from you is, "'f' you, you're wrong," "'f' you, you're ignoring my points and is just simply being silly and annoying," and just "'f' you," in general (As you can see, I'm not swearing due to a personal fact of mine that I swore an oath to never swear if I want to make things for kid like Kung Fu Panda or the show that actually brought all of us here in the first place). While I agree that brainwashing humanity and destroying every single trace of is not the answer (There is a reason why keep all of this history for the next generation to learn from, so they won't repeat the mistakes of the current and older generations), but Chat brings up some points that make me go "Oh, alright then." and just move on, leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I move on. Like getting a bad ending in a video game or a bittersweet one.
.>>642243Chatoyance
Chatoyance, I'm not sure if you're writing your response to NoMoreSanity right now, but I really believe that you got what you're looking for now about ONE of the MAIN reasons why NoMoreSainity is upset with you (since there are more obviously ^^; ). Seriously, your first impression or response to her story about the deconstruction of the Conversion Bureau series as a whole was terrible and mean spirited.
-
Before I go on I have to say that both of you are doing the same thing with your stories in that they're both alternate realites of the Conversion Bureau universe with endings that is satisfying for the both of you except:
Chat you made this story a long time ago as a tribute to the original author who did this right?... and you legitmently like it as the original as well, right? It's not like you did this because you didn't like this story but more of because you felt like you could expand it and actually felt curious about what would happen if things went differently, kind of like NoMore right?
NoMoreSainity you made your story mostly to just vent about what you've been seing in other Conversion Bureau stores along with Chat's, right? and you did this in the same manner of "What if" that Chat did for this story (and every other Converstion Bureau), right? Although it's more about the "What if" than the vent right? Especially since you made your story happen in the present than in the far future. It's still that same "What if" scenario as every other CB is like isn't it?
-
Okay now I'm going to continue, sorry for interrupting the flow like that, it's just that I felt this need to be said before I go to far. Anyway Chat, you just basically went up to her story and directly insult her, no, accuse her that she's a lazy good for nothing without thinking that she could've gone through some hardships as well. But I thought you two kind of, sort of apologized to each other about that and accepted your viewpoints and say let bygones be bygones. Now i see that NoMoreSanity is still harboring some bitter feelings towards you when this arguement came right back on, but this time NoMoreSanity you're being the aggressor here or more like you becoming the aggressor as your aguement went on. Basically Chat, you shouldn't really go around directly insult the authors like you did to NoMore, you should at least talk about what you disagree about their stories like your rant in Anthropology. Not only you didn't like the portrayal of the humans in this story (which in my opinion they're being normal as the strangers that I talk to ^^; ), you also said how boring that the story was going so far (that is until the Wham Episode of Chapter 24 and Lyra finally deciding to tell the truth chapters before this), that many other like me, who did enjoy the story, had to relectantly agree that it was getting boring too. That's how you disagree with a story not a personal attack and assumption of the author like you did in her story. Also, at least I now know another reason why you say that to Jason and that reason just now became Harsher in Hindsight for the same reason that Cutie Pox episode became harsher in hindsight for the Story of the Blanks.
NoMore, you were kind of passive agressive about when you first you made your post here, looking at it again, at least you weren't name calling Chat, like she did in your story. Like Chat, I also find the way that you stick with your beliefs to be pretty admirable, it's just that it became weaker as the arguement gotten longer. I really didn't want to pick sides, but like I admitted (and hinted in an older comment) earlier that I'm against the whole brainwashing thing to be the right way to save this world. However if your arguement with Chat was a debate and I was some sort of judge I would probably be siding with Chat in her arguement and that was probably because of what I was being taught in my classes. It's just that you're the one who is beginning to repeat herself and not truely understanding Chat's point of view, your arguement was becoming weaker and weaker because of that. Still, in my next opinion about all this and what I think of Chat, is that she's an intelligent woman who likes to use many sources and history that we know about to make her point, I feel like using these points is the only way she'll at least get started on thinking and saying "hmm, I see your point, but still..." Sorry for talking about like you're not there Chat it's just that I felt like that's the proper to debate with about the nature of your stories, also I really did like how you never back down from your criticism despite it hurting you. Any other person would probably caved by now (like that guy who helped created the new Ultimate Spiderman cartoon), but not you, I guess this is the reason why I like you as a person and writer. Anyway, I just wonder how long this debate will go on before you two might have to agree to disagree.
Back to being about ponies and humans is that I think.... I can't think of anything other than that both sides should at least try to work together and the conversion should be a conscious choice rather than be a forced one. Now I suddenly remember one of Twilight's line from the original Conversion Bureau "... You've all come here because of you're own free will and not because someone stick a gun in your face and forced you to come here." It's a paraphrase, but I remember that it was one of Twilight's jokes there. ^^;
PS. It took me a long time to write this and the last post I see is made by Armalite who is the 75th poster. So I'm not sure how my point of view or opinion will get across now. I wonder how far the debate went tonight.
PPS. Sorry if I mistook your gender NoMoreSanity, it's just that it's strange that I forgot about it. But I'm tired after all this writing and there might be some typos and missing words. Again. I just hope my memory actually served me right this time. ^^;
>That actually was an honest mistake. I read your handle wrong. I didn't mean it as an insult... it was just a derp on my part. 'Annoyance' is pretty funny though. You can call me that as a pet name if you like. It's kind of cute, in a way.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
>I did see this. It is one of my spouses favorite musicals, actually. I thought it was very well done, and some of the tunes were pretty catchy.
There's a hole in the world with a great black pit, and it's filled with people who are filled with shit, and it goes by the name of fimfiction!
>That's kind of a complex question and has not a little of the 'have you stopped beating your wife yet, Senator?' about it. There are some moments when I get angry, as any person does, and I can become sarcastic. If I feel like someone has insulted me, I can become rude. But a lot of what goes on in text is so very easily misinterpreted. Without the vast amount of information provided by tone of voice, body language and facial expression, a sentence that was meant innocently, or forcefully, or seriously can come out sounding like an insult, or as condescension, or condemnation.
Well have you stopped beating your- Oh wait you're actually in a relationship, this has gone too far Sanity too far....
See my battered housewife comment above. The only rudeness I've shown is after you've shown it, and I'm a pompous asshole. And I know the internet isn't the best place for emotions to show through, but I think words are enough to convey most feelings. I.e, I didn't like your story, I gave reasons why.
>That said, I cannot claim I am immune to making errors about such matters. In my feelings, you have been doing nothing but pointlessly attacking me with empty statements that seem to hold no points to answer. Seriously, that is what I am mostly hearing. In my intellect, I find it hard to accept that this is truly the case, which is why I am trying to answer here, trying to make things work out, if I can.
Every sentence I made was directed against something you said with a point behind it. Not once did I 'pointlessly' attack you, except if you count all these comments as a whole as pointless. And if so, why do you respond to them? Unless you think there's a point to it. I know it's a first-response thing to take all criticisms as derogatory towards yourself, but beyond 'Fuck yous' I've barely insulted you save on comments you yourself made or refused to even deny, thus making it seem like you can't come up with a credible defense for them.
>In that respect, I am a divided house - my emotions tell me one thing about your comments, my intellect is trying to make me not take it all that way.
That is normal, though I don't see why you'd listen to your heart here. When it comes to the internet, the heart is a shallow organ that needs to ripped out and fed to a small alligator.
>May I offer that, perhaps, we both may be taking a lot of things not in the spirit that they were intended, and also quite a bit harsher than they were intended? It may be that we are simply having troubles communicating correctly. What you are asking me, perhaps I am not parsing correctly. And my responses, perhaps are not working the way I imagine.
Um, do you mean your story or your comments? If it's the former, I understood your story quite well, and that's why I disliked it. If it's your comments, well it's pretty hard to interpret them as anything beyond either a dismissal of others criticism or rants on your own beliefs. Look at all the comments again. Look at how you respond to them. Do you see why your attitude might anger people? You've been calling anyone who disagrees with you 'senseless' and acting incredibly creepy like your pseudo-religious rant at post 63. It's disturbing.
>This is not to say there has not been any snarkiness on both our parts, that probably is true. But... Perhaps also not as much as either of us imagines.
Maybe you, but I've been as vitriolic as I intend. But if you're going to have a reasonable discussion that's actually on-topic, like now for instance, I'll tone it down if only to at least salvage something from this.
>Your statements seem to suggest you see me as being quite rude, but I kind of feel the same way about you. I am at a loss to comprehend what I see as your rudeness to me, as doubtless you may feel with regard to me.
I'm a rude asshole, I've mentioned this already. In your comments towards not just me, but other people though, you been very condescending towards others. Once again, look at your posts above and see how you react to others. You didn't respond to barely any accusations or criticisms, you went on some off-topic rants on the science and the question of Nazis (Which in that context made no sense whatsoever). That is my problem with you right now.
>For what it is worth, I am just plain confused now, but I assure you that I bear you no ill will, and if I had my preference, there would be no more... unpleasantness at all.
That pause kind of disturbs me. But it's not like I have some vendetta against you as a person. The way you were acting just baffled and annoyed me. When you called midnightshadow 'Sense among the senseless' you didn't think I and others wouldn't take that as an insult? Or when you responded with sarcasm instead of actual rebuttals? I'm not sure if you just can't come up with a defense or if you think it's not even worth it, but either way it makes you look bad.
>Is any of this... sensible? I am kind of in doubt about whether I am saying things in a way that... works... or not. I feel unsure, at this point... of getting my point across.
None of this is sensible. If you're referring to your comment though, but you still seem to be missing the point. You mention things like not meaning any of this, without actually apologizing or explaining yourself in a way that doesn't make you look like a madman. Like when you said you'd only respond to one question of mine; it implies you don't want to answer questions save for small shit you can focus on and insult us for. Thinking of this argument as an actual debate, you've ignored the main questions and went off on your own points or ones that barely matter, making you look like a person who doesn't even know the point she wants to get across.
Your post is incredibly long, so let me respond succinctly. If you don't think I had a point beyond 'fuck you' you either didn't read my post or never looked beyond the fuck yous. Chat was the one who was ignoring my and others points in favor of talking about shit no one cares about. And I'd like you to know that the difference in our two stories is that I haven't even released mine yet. A.K.A, it's still under construction, whenever. Looking on it now, I kind of hate the way I did it actually, so don't use that as an argument either. The point is you seem to be missing the point entirely as to what I'm getting across here.
Also Chat never responded to my story btw. What the hell are you talking about? I meant that other guy, Minalruka. I was angry at the fact that she and her lackey midnight basically pissed on the guy for his efforts without good reason to back it up. If you think I'm actually harboring a vendetta or something against good ol' Jenny, you're really fucking misinterpreting this situation here.
I really tried to be nice, and open and honest there. I tried to make friends and be kind with you.
I am sorry you don't like my story, or my outlook, or anything else you don't like about me and my works. I just write stories that make me feel happy, and I just want to be nice. Really, however I seem to come across to you, that's all there is to it with me.
I don't want to be in fights, or drama or have to defend anything. I just want to write my little silly stories and maybe hope that a few readers might enjoy them. I am weary of... whatever this is. It doesn't feel happy to me.
If you don't like my stories, or me, then... well, I'm sorry.
If you'll excuse me, I have stories to write now.
the diffrence between ponies and the borg is three simple things.. three tiny simple things that you (and all the others) keep forgetting.
1: the ponies did not choose to invade. cosmic events just happened to cause our two dimentions to collide.
2: the fact that the two dimentions are colliding is causing the world to vanish and be converted itself into equestria.
3: when borg assimilate you, you die. completely. only one was able to escape the collective and even he cant fully say he is back to normal.
ponies when they convert you (by your choice) you cant go back to being human but you give up all the mean and violent side of humanity.
so basically you just compared hitler to washington.
You say that as if there's anything for her to answer. NoMoreSanity has, at this point, written more words decrying Chatoyance than the original story was; far too much of it interspersed with personal attacks and vulgarity, neither of which are conducive to getting positive or understanding replies. She stepped back, tried to defuse the anger, and asked for a single, simple question she could answer in a reasonable discussion instead of a flood of criticism, and got another flood of criticism. NMS doesn't seem to have any questions he wants answered at this point, he just seems to want to attack Chatoyance some more.
And Chatoyance, I loved this story. I love all of your stories. Now, due to the comments on this story, I think I know why: I agree with you. Transhumanism, feeling disconnected from this world, wanting to be something different/better... I feel all of that, and seeing someone who can take those thoughts and turn them into such compelling and entertaining stories is a great experience.
Wow. Once again you have no defense for yourself and can't even bother that.
You know, for a moment there in your last post, I really thought you were trying to come off good and reproach with me. Now though, you've shown that you once again can't actually give the effort to even defend your fucking point. Your frothing fanboys might make excuses for your lack of any credible defense, but I won't. You've given me plenty of headaches through this conversation, and you're still too goddamn ignorant to even realize what you did wrong.
Sincerely, and for the last time, fuck you.
I have given her plenty of questions. Let me list some of them off for you and the rest of the people here who can't be bothered to read.
1) Why do you insist on ignoring questions?
2) Do you actually know why people compare your stories to Nazism, or are you that ignorant?
3) Can you explain any of the criticisms I made of you above beyond "Shut up I'm right!"
And finally 4) Why can you accept no view other than your own you virulent bigot?
You just want to fight. You don't ask questions, you troll. You are abusive. I don't answer trolls, if I can catch myself in time.
There, I have now answered you entirely, and completely.
And, at last, with that realization - I can be a little slow, because I want to think the best of folks - I am done.
Damn. I agree with you but really, aren't you overreacting a little bit?
I read her comments on another story of hers — her interpretation of Equestria is "Equestria as heaven". Given the near religious fervor she and her devotees have of this view, it is an enormous waste of time arguing with her. Like all zealots, all they can see is their own narrow world view.
And JDR, you're asking why people hate your stories? Here's the answer. You're essentially preaching to them; NoMore mentioned this, which by the way you didn't address. Not to mention you deliver sermons on how Humans suck and Earth is a shithole and how Equestrians are perfect and Equestria's a paradise with the fervor of a "fire and brimstone" fundamentalist preaching about sin and salvation. Most people hate fundamentalists for their extremely blatant attempts to cram their beliefs down other's throats and raging intolerance to contrary views. You claim that you despise organized religion. Look in the mirror some time. Your way of speaking resemble those of the most fanatical preachers, imams, rabbis, etc. And as for the intolerance part, well, Armalite and I pointed out that what you said in Anthropology was rather intolerant of JasonTheHuman's own interpretation of Earth. And even now, you've been belittling and moxking NoMoreSanity who as I said before, has some valid if rudely worded points.
>>645197NoMoreSanity
1) She answered your question with a question. It's Annoying I know, but I didn't see you answer her questions in the same manner she does or make some rebuttals about how humanity isn't like that, how we as humanity been doing everything we can that not everyone is like what she says we are. Because you didn't do that (well the rebuttal thing actually) it's not that hard to figure out why she believes all you want to do is fight.
2)Chat tries to disapprove of those accusations, so I think she knows why. She did talk about them as well.
3)This is one of the questions I mostly agree with you but your criticisms later became more about the direction of the story rather than what you originally saying about giving the characters actual reasons to behave the way they do in her story. But this is an alternate ending although, I think I remember other alternate endings at least have the characters have better reasoning to act the way they do, I think.
4) Well, it's actually back on the subject of Chat answering questions with a question. It is that I think no one actually gave her a good enough reason to doubt her's yet.
But it's too late now she quit, you quit, all I'm doing is just giving out my opinions and comments about your fight. That's pretty much the point of this reply now... :(
1). Not in Chatoyance's story. Celestia is deliberately causing Equestria to intrude into our dimension. This nullifies points 1 and 2 and make point 3 irrelevant since this is 'ponify or die'.
2). See above
3). Again, I point out this is Chatoyance's story where humans are in an altered state of mind after ponification. Just because it's not at the severity of the Borg doesn't really justify it.
And now many more jimmies have been rustled, it would seem. Come on, people, where is the love and tolerance? Personally, Chatoyance, I'm unpleasantly surprised by the tone of the argument between NoMoreSanity and yourself. I thought you were ponier than that. And NoMoreSanity, This is Chatoyance's story, after all, her trying to make what she perceived as a sad ending, to be a little happier. She wrote it to share with us, and to try and bring us enjoyment. If you don't like the way she edited it, that's fine. You do have that right. But can't we all just get along, or barring that, at least try to be civil in our disagreements? And that goes for everyone. I don't believe in flame-wars, they accomplish nothing but pissing everyone off. That's my opinion, and I welcome yours. If you want to take me to task over what I've said here, please feel free to PM me or leave a (civil) comment on my user page. And while you're there, read the story I just wrote and help me be a better writer by offering constructive feedback. Peace and Love, DogfoodandGlue. And now to go punch a hole in a cement wall with my stallion bits.
You are right, DogfoodandGlue, and I feel ashamed for letting my humanity get in the way of my poninity. Hee! I will learn from this, and be more pony as a result, I hope. Every moment like this is a choice to be an ape, or something better, and I failed this one.
But hopefully, not the next.
Most Honorable Lady Chatoyance, you have nothing to be sorry about, really, while I will admit that seeing you sink to that level was...disconcerting, we are all, despite our continuous struggles to become something more, still human, and therefore still bound by the foolish emotions of anger and pride. And yes, "We" includes "You", at least until Ginger Michelson and Nutmeg Morely show up at your door with a beaker of sparkly purple goop..And as for your little kerfuffle with NoMoreSanity, I think I know the perfect cure. GROUP HUG!
>>647153 Aww, I hate you too buddy!
>>645618 Yeah, I agree, it's kind of hard to argue with a zealot. 
And, for the record, I'm in a void between being agnostic and athiest, but I don't go around belittling other religions (So long as they don't try to convert me.) And that is pretty much the lesson of these stories. The ponies are the christian saints, and the humans are the evil athiests. They must all be converted, or die.
And to, >>647166, this is getting a little creepy.
no. in chats stories it just happened. celestia offered and the universe is built from that. if celestia had control of it as the "good guy" she would stop the expansion of the shield. so therefore she has no control over it.
and if you compare the newfoals with the borg.. i feel sorry for you. i honestly do.
first off borg kill. ponies just ponify.
second borg assimilate to where there is no shred of identity. ponies convert but your personality is still the same as are your likes, dislikes, skills, talents, ect
third the borg give no choice. ponies do.
please learn to use that space between your ears for something other than a whistle. 
>...I feel ashamed for letting my humanity get in the way of my poninity. Hee! I will learn from this, and be more pony as a result, I hope. Every moment like this is a choice to be an ape, or something better, and I failed this one.
I apologise in advance for my vulgarity, as I am one who is loathe to bring those words into civilised conversation, but that is seriously the creepiest goddamn thing I've ever read.
Rather being a smartass, how about actually reading the source material.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/8056/18
"Their adventure had cost them both. They had both suffered physically and psychologically, but at last it seemed to be over. They had heard the end of the story, they had discovered the reason that Celestia had invaded Earth; that it had been an invasion, deliberate and calculated, based on an ancient promise to the first ponified human.
They had also discovered why some ponies in Equestria did not act as peacefully or as compassionately as others; a touch of humanity had spread through the species for centuries, the result of Celestia's best-guess attempt to match a human mind with a pony body."
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