Chapter Three
“Rarity,” asked Twilight Sparkle, “do you believe in God?”
"God, dear?" Rarity repeated, sliding a green vest over a skinny ponnequin. "However do you mean?"
"You know. Do you believe in a higher power? A... an immortal pony that created everything?"
Rarity gave Twilight an amused look. "Oh, Twilight, surely you must be joking."
"Huh?"
Rarity tittered a high pitched laugh. "Twilight, stop it! I'm in the zone, can't you see? I've no time for silly jokes."
"I'm not joking, Rarity," Twilight said, her face twisted. "I'm serious. I just want to know if you believe in God."
Rarity's expression changed the longer she eyed Twilight. "My goodness, you really aren't joking! You really don't know, do you?"
"How could I know, Rarity? I'm asking for your opinion, what you believe, and this is something we've never talked about before."
Rarity's magic set everything down and her horn stopped glowing. "My darling Twilight, we've never talked about it because I thought it went quite unsaid. Perhaps I was wrong."
"Wrong about what?" Twilight's eye twitched. "Look, Rarity, I'm already frazzled enough from my conversations with Applejack and Rainbow Dash. Will you just tell me what you believe so I can go home and think about it?"
"It's not what I believe that matters, Twilight. It is the truth that governs this world."
"Yes, well, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at."
"And you... don't feel that you've already found the answer?" Rarity blinked above an innocent smile.
"No! Everypony thinks something different."
"Do they now?" Rarity raised her eyebrows and looked away. "Well, honestly, I don't think there's a question about it."
"So you do believe or don't believe in God?" Twilight asked.
Rarity paused. "Define god."
Twilight grunted. "A distant, invisible pony who created the world, watches over us, has some degree of influence in our lives, responds to prayer... somehow, and assigns us to heaven or hell when we die."
Rarity blanched. "Goodness, Twilight! No, if that's your definition, I certainly do not believe in God."
"Oh. Well, what do you believe in?"
A whimsical, almost skeptical smile pulled at Rarity's face. "I still can't believe you're not joking!"
"Rarity! Just tell me!"
"Alicorns, Twilight!" Rarity said.
Twilight Sparkle was silent. "Wh-what?"
"If we're talking about immortal beings who govern creation and existence," Rarity said, "then the answer is obviously Alicorns."
Twilight's head began to shake. "No."
"Well, why not, darling? Think about it. What did the ponies of the past worship? The Sun, the Moon, the celestial bodies. Do you think it's because they were pretty? No, of course not! They knew what--or rather who--had set the sky in motion, and they used their own magic and skills to continue the cycles while waiting for their gods to return. Isn't that what the ancient legends say?"
"No," Twilight said again, more to the air than to Rarity.
"So it's only sensible to deduce that Celestia and Luna--and perhaps others--created this world and all the life in it, and then left it to a period of self-preservation, probably while off creating other worlds or visiting pre-established ones--"
"No, no."
"--then returned, had a little falling out, and then... well, you know."
Twilight stared at her. "Then what, Rarity?"
The unicorn smiled. "Why, Celestia chose you, of course."
Twilight's knees buckled. She nearly fell to the floor of the boutique.
Rarity stepped forward. "I thought you knew, Twilight! I honestly thought this was all common knowledge. Obviously gods are not perfect creatures, seeing what happened to Luna--"
"Rarity, stop."
"--but they are immortal, and so the only way to ensure the continuance of life is to continue the cycle of righteous godhood."
"Stop it!"
"Twilight, calm yourself! There's nothing horrible about any of this. In fact, I think it's wonderful! One day when all of us are gone, you'll probably join them in the stars and create planets and suns and life of your own!"
"Gaaaahhhh!" Twilight screamed and, in a flash of light, teleported out of sight.
Rarity blinked a few times. "Oh, dear. Did I say something?"
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I was gonna wait to publish this one, but people were already worried that the fic would focus on a Judeo-Christian-like God. That is not the case.
Oh my, Rarity managed to upset Twilight pretty quick with her "affirmed" beliefs! Gah, I wonder if the next chapter will maintain parallel structure! It seems like it would be a good time for some insight because of strained emotions! I also wonder why this is so distressing to Twilight, though I would assume it was because of the prospect of having so much responsibility, plus the amount of modesty she tends to hold!
Kinda wondering why the ponies are bothering at all to speculate so vaguely about the mechanics of hell considering they've already got an underworld they can physically access, unless Tartarus in this fic isn't supposed to be, like, the Tartarus you'd find in Greek mythology.
Sqeeee!!!
To summarise the rest of this story:
It is so unclear what specific point Twilight is objecting. I love it!
This has all so far melded well with the three tribes physiological culture!
Of course a strong and watchful earth pony would possess a belief in a god!
Of course an OP athletic pegasus would discard god!
Of course a unicorn with great magical talent would respectfully deify a pony with immeasurably greater magical ability!
Leave it to a RM to bring up the God question.
I applaud you for taking a gamble with a story like this. So far, so good.
So far, we've got a monotheist, an atheist and a polytheist. This means that we're obviously headed for
Pinkie Pie: either an agnostic OR a believer in a groovy Deity who's more like a cartoon than the figure from Scripture
Zecora: an animist who sees the divine and readily observable as being pretty much the same
and
Fluttershy: a Buddhist-analogue,
Ooh, it starts! Hold on, let me pull up my earlier prediction for this title before I read the actual fic:
Ok, not looking very close so far. Let's read this thing!
So. That was probably the most interesting thing that happened to me today, and I just drove across the country. And also finished Daredevil. Hm. Maybe not quite the most interesting.
Anyway, this is crazy impressive, Ponky. I think I can imagine what it feels like to write the RD chapter right after AJ's. I know how hard it is to separate your personal views from your creativity and faithfully portray opinions like that. I thought I smelled Skirts in RD's viewpoint. Am I right?
I also love the way you merged our world's beliefs with the world of Equestria. I'd love to hear more about the tribes' old faiths.
So we have Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy left out of the six. I could see Pinkie having some left-field answer next that derails the theme of the story so far a bit but really makes us think, and then Fluttershy finishing up with a reasonable, tolerant answer that says more about belief in general than hers in particular. Or something like that. I'll be happy with whatever, of course.
I'm still not sure if this is better than my idea for the title, though. That story wants to be told, just not by me.
5903966 Had an idea for a fic where the ponies were Fausts angels, set upon the world to maintain it for the other races.
Didn't get around to write it though.
lol good chapter.
Very interesting view Rarity.
5904759 I wish people wouldn't equate atheism with nihilism. =/
Pinke is God.....duh
Oh Chapter 3 is fun.
5904095 Well, Pinkie is just crazy enough to be a mormon or a scientologist so it will be very interesting to see what the author has planned
While Rarity does have an interesting viewpoint, with some (IMO) silly concepts, I didnt understand why Twilight was so insistent to deny it. I thought she'd be more reasonable in her disagreement. Even Twilight isn't perfect though
I'm totally in on this. I'm excited to see where it goes.
Poor Twilight! Talk about a nightmare for our miss princess of " performance anxiety"! Could be worse, though. You could have her meet up with Shirley MacLaine, Morgan Freeman and Kanye West.
5904887 Uhhhh....the writer kinda IS LDS so he might not appreciate the 'crazy' thing.......
5904702 Unless God said so, provided such a person exists in this narrative.
Small correction: "deduct" should be "deduce."
Anyway! I find the concept of this discussion (or string of discussions) interesting, being a theologian myself. Even though the concept of religion is never explicitly mentioned in the show, the allegories to mythology are pervasive enough to raise some pointed questions.
Rainbow's professed adherence to nihilism strikes me as strained, however, since she isn't somepony interested in abstract intellectual quandaries. I'd think of her as more pragmatic in her unbelief, that is, in the words of Han Solo, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." It's another matter if Rainbow was merely parroting what she's picked up, though I don't have that impression from the way she was presenting her case to Twilight.
For a moment I thought Rarity was going to launch into an Equestrian form of New Age Gnosticism; instead she just called things as they are. The Princesses are more or less demi-gods. It still doesn't answer Twilight's unmoved mover dilemma. Perhaps she needs to read Thomas Equinas?
If I were a pony living in Equestria, I would be right there with Rarity.
Celestia and Luna's parents are Gods.
Yeah, folks, polytheism exists in Equestria.
It would be really funny if she asked Celestia and she says "Yep, I made everything, deal with it."
5905057 what's he gonna do? Find me and slaughter me? Good luck with that
Rarity is stupider than I thought...
5911043
Rarity's point is that she believes in gods for a definition of godhood that is tangible and undeniable in their world, not for one that's nebulous and based on blind fate, and everything else is just conjecture. That's hardly stupid, if anything she's more realistic than Rainbow and AJ within the context of her perception.
Anybody read The Infinity Concerto + The Serpent Mage by Greg Bear ?
They have a very nice theories about God, gods etc. And how access to magic can ascend you.
Rarity would like it very much I think.
Highly recommended if you want to read fantasy book.
5905404 fucking lol
how's 9th grade going
Geez Twilight, way to be an asshole to Rarity.
She has her own beliefs and you can't just yell "no" like a jackass because you don't agree! What are you; A Youtube comment person?! It's insanely disrespectful and childish
5914529
No she is getting annoyed as how Rarity was misinterpreting what she meant by God.
Mormons believe that humans can undergo apotheosis and ascend to godhood and create worlds. Interestingly, Mormonism is a bridge-religion between the old religions where stars are just lights and the new-age-religions with the stars as suns with inhabited planets and moons in the stellar systems. Rarity is an author-insert.
5914529
Can't she? Rarity is trying to tell Twilight that Twilight is a god. Presumably Twilight can speak with authority about that subject.
Likewise, of Rarity and Twilight, who do you think would be more familiar with the abilities - and limits - of Celestia and Luna?
Imagine someone deciding that you are a god, and fervently insisting that you, and your parents, and your siblings, are divinity made manifest and the source of all things. You really wouldn't consider yourself justified in disagreeing with them about that?
That's where Twilight is coming from, here. Being on the receiving end of worship feels downright creepy.
From a meta perspective, this is an awesome chapter. Really great way to relieve tension on a heated topic. Also an interesting interpretation by Rarity.
Rarity, you just scared the hay out of Twilight with the implicit future responsibilities! Also, I think Twilight wants to steer very clear from any line of thought which might impel her toward megalomania.
Ironically, in my fanon Rarity ultimately becomes an Alicorn as well.
Dear Lord, Rarity!
You don't just come out and _tell_ the recently apotheosized that they are now deities responsible for all creation. Especially not when they're having enough problems just dealing with being sovereign of a nation! That's the sort of thing you have to ease them into!
Also, telling your friends that you genuinely view them as some sort of divine influence... Jeez, I can't really blame Twilight for screaming and running away - I'd probably do something similar!
Haha, Rarity. But most of us were thinking something like this. I wonder what answer Twilight will get once she gets to Celestia.
It would appear that her viewpoints are a mix of Deism with a bit of Tibetan Buddhism spliced in.
Flip the space to the other side of the quote.
Well, Twilight never liked the idea of being held above anypony else. She doesn't want to be put on a pedestal, but seeing how their world works, Rarity seems pretty down to earth about it.
Kudos for not taking alicorn worship seriously.
Of course Rarity would have no problem being best friends with physical goddesses.
And now I'm imagining cults popping up with shrines and rituals to worship Twilight. Now wouldn't Twiligjt walking in on one of those by accident make for an interesting story?
5903966
Tartarus in Greek mythology is already not the same thing as Hell. It's where the dead are judged and the wicked receive punishment. You could say it's like Purgatory with some of Hell's responsibilities. Hades (the place) is more of a Greek mythology equivalent to Hell, and even then there are differences, but then we're just getting into semantics.
Yes Rarity, you did say something.
Seriously, that kind of obliviousness is something I'd expect from Pinkie, or maybe Rainbow, but not Rarity. Twilight clearly expressed that she was uncomfortable and asked Rarity to stop and Rarity not only just kept going without a care in the world as to her friends feelings, but doesn't even recognize that she did something wrong when Twilight runs off! That isn't like Rarity at all!
Feel free to ignore this comment if you want to, but this seems somewhat OOC for Rarity.
Now, we're getting someplace.
I we want to draw an analogy between this and human religion it would be either Egyptian or its derivative, New Age Spiritual Science. I'm hesitant to see it in a congruent manner to the Romans because of the whole interacting with Celestia/God on a daily basis.
I don't believe that the mannerisms used by each individual in this story is meant to reflect that religion or lack thereof, but instead be an alternate message about reactions to religion and the holier-than-thou attitude.
I was half expecting Rarity to believe that she was God before reading this chapter.
Pity this chapter is so short because Rarity has the most interesting belief system of all the asked ponies.
To Rarity, highest beings in existence are ponies she interacts on semi-daily basis. I would like Twilight to question her beliefs seeing as she, helself is the part of it.
Where does her concept of good and evil come from? It must have existed before Alicorns as it is not them who define what is right.
Does she believe that Alicorns are gods because of their power? She admits that being evil did not make Luna/Nightmare Moon less of a god.
She even believes in some form of after life.
Wheezing from laughter, here. Just the, "Well, Rarity? What happens next?" and "Oh, well, you're God now as well, darling!"