“Rainbow Dash,” asked Twilight Sparkle, “do you believe in God?”
"Heck no!" Rainbow said, opening one eye to glare at Twilight. "What kind of question is that?"
Twilight blinked. "Uhh... a curious one?"
"Pff." Rainbow cracked her neck and stood on the tiny cloud, facing the airborne Twilight with a half-lidded expression. "No, Twilight, I don't believe in God."
"Why not?" Twilight asked.
Rainbow guffawed. "Because that's just like the Tooth Breezie or telling kids that the ghosts of Clover the Clever and whoever else bring gifts on Hearth's Warming Eve! God's just a myth to help kids feel better when their pets die."
"Rainbow!" Twilight said. "That's not very nice."
"Well, it's true!" Rainbow said, eyes wide. "Why? Do you believe in God?"
Twilight fidgeted in the air. "Ugh. I don't really know yet. I asked Applejack and--"
"Ha! Lemme guess, AJ believes in a big white Alicorn with a cloud-beard that talks to ponykind through the Holy Spirit or something."
"Uhhh... she didn't say anything about a Holy Spirit. Or cloud-beards."
Rainbow laughed and shook her head. "Twilight," she began, jumping off the cloud and flying lazy circles around the Princess, "you can't expect somepony like Applejack to tell you what's true about God. She's had, like, tragedy in her life and stuff. Ponies like that need to believe in God and heaven and whatever else."
"You think so?"
"Oh yeah, for sure. At the least the weak ones."
"Applejack is not weak!" Twilight argued. "She's the strongest pony I know."
"Uh, besides me!" Rainbow said. She sighed and hovered at Twilight's side. "Look, Twi, I don't mean to burst any kinda feelings bubble you got from your conversation with Applejack, but believe me: there's no such thing as God."
Rainbow sped away. Twilight frowned and tried to follow. "Then where did everything come from?"
"Huh?" Rainbow asked, glancing over her shoulder.
Twilight swung her hooves at the ground. "Everything! The world, life itself, magic... where did it all come from?"
"You said it yourself, Twilight," Rainbow called. "Magic! You can create stuff, can't you?"
"Well, not out of nothing," Twilight said. Rainbow slowed down enough for her to catch up. "Magic is more about reorganization than creation."
"Well, then, that happened," Rainbow said with a shrug. "There was a bunch of stuff floating around, and then bang! Magic organized it."
"That doesn't make any sense," Twilight said, rolling her eyes. "Things don't just get organized. There's entropy and natural law and decay."
"Around here, maybe," Rainbow said, "but who's to say there's not some, I dunno, alternate dimension that exists to counteract entropy? Maybe everything started there and floated over here and then, poof, life happened along the way."
Twilight stared at her. "Alternate dimension?"
"I dunno! That's a theory I've had since I met Pinkie Pie."
Twilight laughed.
"And then Discord proved it."
"Ha ha ha! Oh, Rainbow Dash. So you really don't think there's a God?"
"Not a chance!" They suddenly arrived at Rainbow's cloudhouse. Twilight landed awkwardly on the porch while Rainbow unlocked the front door. "You wanna come in?"
"Sure," Twilight said. "It looks bigger than it used to be," she noted as she walked through the doorway.
"I've made some adjustments over the years," Rainbow said. "It's pretty easy, actually. All you need are clouds."
Twilight giggled. "I just don't get it. If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?"
"Nothing." Rainbow leapt onto a large cloud-couch and stretched herself out.
"Nothing?" Twilight squinted.
"Absolutely nothing."
"You can't believe in nothing, Rainbow."
"Sure I can. It's called nihilism."
Twilight rolled her eyes. "Rainbow, that's not believing in nothing."
"It is too! I learned about it at college."
Twilight tilted her head. "You went to college?"
"Pssh. Yeah, duh! How do you think I got so smart?" Rainbow leapt from the couch and flew into another room. Seconds later she came back with a rolled up diploma in one hoof and a blue graduation cap in the other. "See? You're looking at a graduate of the Cloudsdale College of Meteorology."
"Wow! Rainbow, that's fantastic. I'm so proud of you."
"Ah, stop it," Rainbow said, flicking her hoof at the joint. "It's nothin', really. Anyway, my first year there I had to take this philosophy class. I thought I was gonna hate it, but it ended up being awesome. The professor was really loud and lively. We learned about all these different ways to, like, think about stuff."
"Wow," Twilight said, smirking.
"I didn't read the textbooks much, but one of the writers we talked about really spoke to me," Rainbow continued. "Freerich Neightzsche. You heard of him?"
"Of course."
"Good. From hearing about his stuff I found out that the world is basically just a big illusion, and everything came from nothing and will go back to nothing. Eventually. But we don't have to worry about that, because we're alive!" She beamed. "We're living between the Nothings, see? So it's our privilege and our duty to, like, live the heck out of life." She flew around the room. "None of this morality junk or religion or anything that holds us back. The key is to live however we wanna live as if the world is ending, because it pretty much is. All the time."
Twilight was unimpressed. "Rainbow, Neightzsche criticized nihilism. He called it dangerous."
"Yeah, well, he wasn't perfect." Rainbow Dash set down her cap and diploma and returned to the couch. "The way I see it, Twilight, life is like a flash of lightning. The only way we're gonna enjoy it is if we move as fast as it does."
"It's impossible to move at the speed of light, Rainbow Dash," Twilight reminded her.
"You know what I mean."
"Not really."
"Okay, look." Rainbow sat up and stared directly at her concerned friend. "You don't have to be a nihilist, but don't believe in God. There's no such thing, and the only thing a belief in God does is hold you back from having fun for fear of not getting to heaven."
"What are you talking about?"
"Didn't Applejack tell you about hell?"
"What's hell?"
"Hell is like... Tartarus, basically. But for dead ponies. If there's a God, they say that good ponies die and go to heaven, but bad ponies die and go to hell. It's, like, eternal punishment or something."
Twilight's jaw dropped. "That's awful! Applejack didn't say anything about that."
"Well, it doesn't make sense for the bad guys to go to heaven, does it?"
"I guess not..."
"Exactly! In fact, none of it makes sense, because it's not true." Rainbow tossed her mane. "There isn't a heaven, there isn't a hell, and there isn't a God. There's just you, and you get to make your own choices without any guilt or weird Cloudicorn who only talks through prayer and soul-whispers."
"Living without morals doesn't seem very conducive to friendship," Twilight said softly.
"No, not without morals. Ugh, Twilight, I thought you said you knew this stuff." Rainbow slid a hoof down her face. "You can have all the morals you want, but that's the point: they're your morals. Nopony else is telling you what to do or not to do. It's about, like, tolerance and stuff. It's the only way friendship works. The six of us, we're totally different. We all believe different things, we like different things, and we probably want very different things. But it still works, because there's no God hovering above us saying Applejack's right and Twilight's wrong. You get to believe whatever you want, let everypony else believe what they want, and we all skip around merrily for as long as we can until the Nothingness decides it's sick of the universe and settles back in."
"That's..." Twilight struggled. "Kind of sad, Rainbow. That last part, anyway. But the friendship part makes sense."
"Hey, the truth hurts," Rainbow said with another shrug. "So, are you gonna believe Applejack and worry about hell for the rest of your life, or are you gonna join me and Neightzsche and do whatever you want?"
Twilight sighed. Her lungs felt heavy. "I don't know yet. I'll have to think about it."
"Just don't pray about it," Rainbow said with a wink.
Who do you think Twilight will ask next? What will they say?
Most enjoyable. I won't spread my personal opinions on the subject (that way lies flame wars), but I like this, and look forward to the rest of the Mane Six's opinions/beliefs.
Interesting idea for a fic I guess. Here's hoping the subject matter doesn't bring forth a shitstorm.
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She'll ask her friends, then her family, and maybe the occasional side character, all of which will lead up to her finally doing what we know she'll get around to eventually: asking the one big white Alicorn with a mane like the clouds who loved to hug her and cared about her.
Rainbow came off as almost too abrasive here; she's nearly too caustic to feel like show-Rainbow, not that her views were internally consistent to begin with.
Interesting choice making Rainbowdash the nhailist. Personally i really like how you are doing it, i just wish twilight called Rainbowdash out on the whole 'tolerance' thing, as in the next sentence she literally contradicts her self and says 'as long as you don't believe in god'. Not very tolerant rainbow...
Personally i think this demonstrates just how personal these balife systems are and that they are generally dictated by their personal experiences.
Great job! cant wait to see what you have up your sleeve for Rarity.
I like to imagine the ponies worship a pantheon of gods, to fit the greco-roman theme.
So far, so good.
I don't think religion should be a taboo subject, even in a normally secularized pony world. Dash and AJ are in character because it's reasonable that each believes what they do.
I've seen pictures of Rarity and Sweetie Belle celebrating Hearth's Warming with what would be considered Jewish traditions.
Fluttershy does seem like she'd be more of a nature type, whether that implies Gaia, Asintmah or perhaps a polytheistic representation of nature. There was a story about Fluttershy having tea with Jesus that was also very believable, and I think she could also be very into the Golden Rule/Great Commandment part of Judeo-Christianity if the story is going to keep it within that belief system.
Pinkie Pie... her family structure hints at her being raised one way, but adopting her own beliefs from personal experience Prodigal Son style.
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Rarity probably? I have no idea what she'd say. Also, not to pry, but is this story based off the experiences you had in your trip?
Honestly, religion is a very touchy subject, and this comments section could get real nasty, really quick. Fair warning.
Now we need polytheism, animism, not-so-oddly discover that Pinkie Pie is actually a solipsist and likes making everyone laugh because they are all made by her subconscious so making them laugh is making herself laugh, beliefs in reincarnation, everything-is-one beliefs, views that god is an asshole, the gods must be crazy, or the gods like playing games with humans, perhaps hear about Ryuunosuke's beliefs on God, have Celestia say "oh yeah, that was Mom", or have Discord prove that all of the above are true in a way that does not permit denial.
Too often people assume that atheists are necessarily nihilists, and they do not give nearly enough time to exploring the merits of Humanism (though in this case perhaps it would be called Equinism) as an ethical philosophy.
Hohoh, Rainbow Dash really comes off strongly about her beliefs! I'm glad she's moderately accepting of most answers Twilight would give her, and find it amusing how biased she is about God!
Rainbow needs some editing to help maintain character. Intersperse physical motion descriptions with her speeches with expressive descriptions.
I hope Twilight asks Derpy/Ditzy, and she replies "that is classsified"
Rainbow Dash is out of character. Not because of her belief, but because of her intrest in Philosophy. Rainbow Dash has a hard time learning through books. There was an episode in sceason for Testing 1 2 3, I think, that explains all this. She wouldn't enjoy listening to a lecturer talk about some pony who had ideas about metaphysics.
Rainbow Dash is very physical and focused on the here and now. It is possible she has never even formed a belief on the subject of God.
i really hope you don't just show extremes
Never really cared for nihilism too much and I like Applejacks answer, but I guess I can just shrug off Rainbows opinion.
She did that all in one year?
I'm sorry, but I can't get past The Tooth Breezie. Why is this not a thing yet? A very tiny, very angry Seabreeze confronted with teeth day after day.
*begins read*
Oh, Rainbow's agnostic? Interesting.
*continues read*
Nihilist, huh? Interesting concept. Didn't take Rainbow for that kinda gal.
*finishes read*
Okay, so being agnostic myself, I MUST comment on Rainbow's statements...
...
Rainbow, you FOOL! You left out some really good statements. Not only that, but you sounded incredibly hostile. We agnostics are supposed to be the better people by NOT constantly engaging in yelling matches, and you just did it!
Oh silly Rainbow Dash... you're not a Nihilist, you're an Atheist.
-Nihilism: "the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless."
-Atheism: "a lack of belief in gods"
Still, RD is Best Atheist Pony.
5908353 She came of more as a run of the mill atheist than agnostic to me. Isn't agnosticism about acknowledging the possibility of an omnipotent deity, but not committing to a single concrete definition of such?
5908703 Whaddya mean by, "run of the mill atheist", eh? I don't know if I should be insulted or not, help.
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I agree, good sir. She is conveyed as being a kinesthetic learner. She can't it still for a lecture about the wonderbolts, the WONDERBOLTS. Also, does she need a degree in meteorology? As far as the canonical evidence is concerned, they create tornadoes that feed the clouds with rain and move clouds. What possibly could they learn about low/high pressure, oceanic currents etc...? if they control the weather, would the course be purely vocational in nature?
Again, not wanting to be mean. I love the story thus far. The discussion is fun and the different points opined are varied and well-thought-out. Onwards Twilight AWAY!
Hell is a vast darkness of Nothingness. Rainbow Dash just admitted she believed in Hell without knowing it!!
5910033 Well, even RealityCheck, the somewhat homophobic, Regan-ite, conservative christian, military recruiter, Rarispike shipper with several Pony fics under his belt gave Dash at least an honorary Weather Management degree.
Friend, you've been reasonably fair 'til now. Right now you are going dangerously close to straw-maning.
I read AJ's chapter and immediately downvoted. You don't get a sensitivity/tolerance free pass from me just because your fic's subject is Abrahamism. You'd get the same downvote from me if you wrote about how Equestria believes it's carried by 4 elephants standing on a turtle.
But then I read your RD chapter and I realized you're probably doing a comparative discussion, rather than an Abrahamist propaganda. So pretty likely I'll be changing the downvote to an upvote soon... Reading on...
Rainbow pretty much described why I don't believe in the concept of an eternal Hell. I see the need for punishment, a purification and cleansing, but forever? Just seems at odds with the idea of a loving, righteous, just God. Doesn't make sense to me.
But then, that's why I love God so much, really, and why the Bible is such a fascinating book. He had it written in such language that it's open to interpretation depending on your experiences. Aside form the Gospel, of course.
Nice story, Ponk.
lmao
cloud
5909396 You should be. :l
5913557 Fixed! Thank you. Good eye.
Rainbow, take off that fedora.
Claiming that one needs gods for creating the universe just movies the problem:
¿Who created the gods who created the universe?
If one argues that gods just exist, ¿why not argue that the universe just exists? One just replaced 1 mystery with another, but the new mystery is a black box we are not allowed to investigate.
Not sure if the first 'the' should be there.
So far the portrayals seem pretty balanced. I think Rainbow could be personalized a little more - her conversation almost sounds like soapboxing (though not quite!).
I feel that RD is a run of the mill Atheist. I feel that she mindlessly believes in no god, just as many Christians (others, I presume, but I'm an American and as such familiar with Christians) mindlessly follow their churches teachings. I even find this happening in my own church.
Of course, you don't really have a character who would think about their religion on as deep a level that such a significant decision demands, aside from Twilight. And you can't have her be the Atheist for hopefully obvious reasons.
I don't know that Dashie would make a good nihilist. Nor is she amoral. She has a very strong morality ... centered mostly on being generally honorable and specifically good and loyal to her friends. In truth I see her attitudes as rather Classical to Norse Pagan, with many of the strengths and weaknesses of such a view.
I like Rainbow Dash's answer.
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Hey, don't you drag the diskworld into this
5911745
Umm, who are we talking about?
5918745
The story is not claiming that Dash is amoral. Just that she thinks ponies decide their own morality. The whole honorable and loyal bit would thus be things that Dash decided were important to live by on her own, not because anyone else told her to. Which does fit pretty well with Dash's rebelliousness and, uhm, disregard for rules, like flight school, breaking into hospitals, sabotaging winter, etc.
In her own words:
It's a lot like Spike's dragon code in that way.
I don't feel this is the sort of thing a scholar would ask, especially one as versed as Twilight. Unless she was just playing devil's advocate.
"its"Ignore this, April 29th, 2015 me was stupid.
5908703
I am an agnostic atheist. I see there is no point in believing in some deity since there is no evidence for or against one. And the default state of any belief is disbelief, least until shown credible evidence otherwise. When someone says they have a baseball signed by Babe Ruth, people don't just believe them based on their word, they need to back it up with a physical baseball signed by Babe Ruth; otherwise they can just be ignored.
5920279
I ride the agnostic boat, too.
I had a conversation with a friend once about who'd have what faith. AJ -of course- would be a theist, as her character was inspired by a heavily Christian nation. RD would be an atheist, not caring for the looming great of eternal punishment for living the way she wants to. And Twilight. We'd assume she'd be agnostic, leaning from books about many beliefs, so coming to the conclusion. 'I'm not sure, but if there's proof, I'll believe it!'
Can't remember what the rest of them were though! Although I think we said Fluttershy was a universalist, believing all beings had souls and would go to an afterlife.
I myself am an atheist, ~99% sure hat there is no afterlife, but it is impossible to say there is defiantly this or that… that's just makes you too stubborn.
~Squiggle-Squiggle~
Huh. I expected RD to not believe in God, but I thought she'd be an atheist, kind of like myself, rather than a nihilist.
5920279
Six weeks old, but anyway
Naw, it's "it's".
Conctraction of "it is".
5902674 I read that in the old batman outro voice. "Tune in next week. Same Ponky time, Same Ponky channel."
So let's suppose Twilight believes in God and decides to force Rainbow Dash to either believe in God or be killed. Rainbow Dash might say this is wrong... but then she's declaring that Twilight values are inferior to Rainbow Dash values. If Twilight can truly live whatever her values allow, then if her values allow her to make everyone worship her God, no one can call her immoral because of it: UNLESS there is a code of laws higher than pony origin.
Ultimately everyone believes something that someone else is doing is evil: war, rape, corruption etc. No one can look at the world and not think that someone else's behavior needs to be changed.
As soon as I read RD mention following nihilism, in my mind I quote Walter Sobchak, "Nihilists! ..Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
I am actually not that surprised to see RD as the nonbeliever. Let's see about the others.
Ah...this chapter made me contemplative. Being christian, it made me kind of sad about Rainbow Dash. What can you do though? Debate and risk your friendship? Or be silent and worry? Or pray.