The High Pope of Antagonistic Advocacy
A newscast on the late 'Conversion Center' phenomenon that happened some six months ago and what would most likely really happen should it occur. Seriously, just because you don't like being human doesn't mean the majority of the world sees it the same way. Set in more of a near-present rather than near-future.
I gave another author ideas! Starman Ghost's TCB: Not Alone is pretty good, go read it. And that has a sequel, Dalek IX's TCB: Conquer the Stars! I feel giddy.
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A nicely done "What if" scenario.
No glaring errors, and it seems to work quite nicely. You've implemented a very vicious and quite plausible "plot killer" for the TCB-verse. (The plot has been brought to a crashing halt before it even really began)
It's a little rough, I think, but this is a little gem I'm glad I took the time to look at and read.
Another group that would become ponies is those dying of something, and the process can cure them.
Like let's say, you've got a human dying of terminal cancer... and the process will give them a healthy pony body.
Of course they're gonna jump at the chance now.
Now me, would I do it then.....
If I was healthy, no.
If I was dying of something, yes.
Of course I would still choose to live here.
No way am I giving up technology, I love technology dude.^_^
Ha ha, nice. I am in no way a fan of the conversion bureau stuff, so I may be biased. However, I quite enjoyed this. : D
As a Conversion Bureau author, I approve of this story
Joking aside, I did like this, would like to see it continue but oh well.
This is hilarious!
I'm sorry though, it comes off as the Fox News version and narrated by Limbaugh - there're no reports of murders of ponies or ponified humans, issues such as the inaccessibility of Equestria are swept under the rug, there's still no talk about the millions of uninsured or working poor, and there's a lot of assumption about lack of evidence such as that provided by simple chemistry. It blatantly ignores every other country than america as well as playing little room to equestrian immigration to Earth.
Good stuff though, for a short.
Lately I had a little discussion about the TCB universe, and this one-shot reflects some of my sentiments.
The typical TCB story portrays Earth as a dystopian and dying world, and that was before the Equestria's emergence. After that Earth and humankind was certified to be doomed because of a force known as thaumatic entropy. The entropy was interminably converting the entire planet into the pastel paradise of Equestria. Humans and their technology was incompatible with Equestrian magic and realm itself, so the human race is pretty much hosed regardless the resistance they put up. Quite sad really, because most TCB fics imply that pretty much anything more advanced and complicated than a book would be destroyed by the ever-spreading Earth-consuming magic. Of course, one can safely declare that firearms and bombs deserve to be eradicated, but what about the beautiful and remarkable things? Imagine a wall of magic indifferent to what it converts advancining on the National Air and Space Museum. I'm sure the complete destruction of all the carefully preserved technolgical marvels would leave a lot of folks bitter. Some TCB stories are fortunately less harsh, showing that the magic's effect on technology simply renders them inoperable. It wouldn't then be a too difficult of a task to reengineer the device to work in Equestria. Anyhow, the stories that aren't lenient has any human-made device turn into confetti and leaves upon insertion to the Equestrian realm. I suppose I don't have to tell how sad that is, especially if you're a caretaker of a museum.
However, I think I have found a little loophole in the TCB universe. In most stories physical examples of technology cannot be brought to Equstria. The interesting loophole is that one can bring a written work -- or simply possess the drive and necessary knowhow -- on how to construct a technologically advanced contraption. Within a short time, a pony would commence with building a device of human origin from the materials avaliable in Equestria. Now make that not one pony, but a few million, and you can bet Equestria will enter an age of industrial revolution within a few years.
A decade or two and Equestria would have their own adaptations of automobiles, airplanes and who knows what else.
Yeah, this might be a plausible scenario in America, where most everyone has a not-horrible life, but in poorer countries, I'd think there would be more people willing to leave their life behind, at least if they could retain their families.
But that just makes the alicorns into manipulative opportunists, taking advantage of human poverty to enlarge their nation.
373645
Don't forget the bluntly biased nature of the reporters.
373657
You echo some of my sentiments. I hope that my story would discuss some of these points, because there are certainly things that I would preserve.
Personally, when it comes to technology, I don't think everything would be outright destroyed provided the plans were preserved. And not to get too political, but I think the technology that would be perserved would be more in the information and entertainment production areas than the manufacturing areas, because you'd start getting into problems of making Ponies redundant if you go too far down that line.
In the realm of vehicles. I think that the only vehicles they'd adopt would be mass-transit. So aircraft, ships, and trains. I mean we are dealing with horse derivatives here, animals we've relied upon so much to travel great distances and drive our machines we still use the name to measure mechanical work done in respects to vehicles at least.
Now this is a CB story I can stand behind. I can't get myself to read past the first chapter of most of them since they have that "humans are irredeemable bastards" vibe, and cast everyone with a dissenting view of "ponyfication" as murdering extremists. Kudos for placing this in the real world, instead of that paranoid corporate future fantasy setting, and showing an actual, civilized debate (albeit one reduced to newsbytes). I look forward to the day when somebody writes a whole story around this particular interpretation.
I myself would never consent to conversion. Sure, humans have done horrible things, but there are just so much scientific, cultural, and artistic accomplishments we have to be proud of, and if the expansion of Equestria means we lose it forever, then I'd rather die, preferably in the Smithsonian while listening to recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas.
373771
That's because in order to get to the point where Conversion would be seen as a legitimate option, humanity has to be on the brink. Otherwise there is nothing to drive the conflict. You'd just end up with a world parallel that could go to, maybe, if you really REALLY wanted to. Consider the threat some American Liberals made to move to Canada should GWB get re-elected (spoilers: only a few actually did move and it was for more than that)
Also the entire story is take on mankind's moral dualism. The same creature that could develop a weapon that could end nearly all complex life on Earth many times over are also the exact same people that could develop the cultural and scientific achievements that have allowed our population to expand and at least a good chunk of it to thrive beyond anyone's dream 100 years ago. Do you believe, if you read the stories where the Bureaus are mercy missions essentially, that the Alicorns would even bother if there wasn't something about humanity worth preserving.
It also raises I believe an EXTREMELY important philosophical question as we begin to develop more advanced prosthetic augmentations and genetic engineering. What exactly is a human being. If these were people being put into bionic or entirely mechanical shells (such as Ghost in the Shell) are they still people, or are they something... else.
It is something we will have to confront in the years ahead.
Author here to respond to some of the comments.
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The slightly biased and American-centric view was intentional. This was a short one-off written in under 5 hours meant to simulate a quick news report, inspired by a sensationalist news report I happened to see on my way out of the office. With only a very short amount of time, 'special reports' tend to leave out a ton of facts and rely on emotional-driven attention grabbing lines. I thought about expanding a great deal in many directions but it would lose that ten-fifteen minute feel most special reports have on the news and that was, in essence, the one thing I couldn't lose for this to work out in any reasonable way.
The thought that more would opt for the change in poorer countries, I disagree. However, I won't go into them. As to murders of ponified humans, I didn't want to give it that dark a feel. This is also a bit of an homage to previous media attention bronies have garnered, so keep that in mind as well.
373589
That assumes the process cures them somehow. That actually might be TBC canon, I can't remember and I'll be arsed if I'm going to read the whole story to find out. Still, I'll keep my asthma and my thumbs.
Thank you to all who read and commented.
373938
Oh, totally understood - turnabout is fair play, after all! For a satire of a bad fanfiction it's great, but it's nice to see that it's still not without flaws
373938
As someone new to writing those kinds of stories, I can assure you the better writers all respect those like you. Not everybody would want to go even if it meant otherwise staring oblivion in the face.
I liked this. It felt like a pretty realistic depiction of, well, "what would really happen" if ponies were to come to present-day Earth to convert humans. Although I guess an important element of TCB is that it's set in a bleak future where characters often seem to get put out of work they've trained their whole lives for by AI technology and then get converted out of a sense of boredom and purposelessness. I've never been entirely sure conversion rates would be as high as they are in those stories, but I can believe that some people would be prepared to abandon their humanity – especially in a futuristic world full of genetic engineering and cybernetic implants – for a sense of purpose/meaning/belonging. And the poor/uneducated are sadly easy to manipulate.
I got a chuckle out of this story, thanks for that. I like to see different ideas like this explored in TCB stories, and I think the more dissenting, deconstructive authors join the fray, the better for everyone.
FINALLY. SOMEONE GETS IT!! Sorry for the Royal Canterlot Voice, I agree with you completely, I personally love being a human. Great story!
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"dissenting, deconstructive authors"
You should see what I did to Cupcakes. Uhm, three times.
I've always hated CB stories. Not only is the idea weird, but to be honest, every CB story I've read is usually pretty bad. They all follow the same formulas and the majority just aren't well written. I suppose having a suspension of disbelief is a good thing, but i could never get around it with CB stories.
That said, I agree completely with your statement and I think this might be the best CB story I've ever read.
...
Yellowstone was alright it tried to do something a little different but even i gave up on it after a while.
In reality, this really would happen.
But if the ever-expanding field of magic really was harmful to humans, then, give or take a few years, more humans may or may not decide to convert.
As well as that, if magic DOES harm humans in some way, and is forcing humans to convert if they wish to live, wouldn't that situation lead to conflict between humans and ponies in a final (and likely futile) attempt by the humans to save all they know?
375204
If it truly was harmful ... maybe. Some might blame the ponies for the situation but it's not exactly their fault. As it gets closer and closer to human nations and people become desperate, I can see that happening. The real question I have is, if magic is harmful to humanity and we must all convert to survive, sure. Ok. Doesn't make me any less an American. I hold no allegiance to the Princesses. Why would I convert and then drop everything to go live in candy-land? Can't I convert and live here? What makes it such that once you convert, you immediately become beholden to the pony's leaders and their way of life?
375266
Interesting point you have there. I can see it now actually, United Kingdom of Ponies, United States of Amareica, and pretty much any other national names that you can cross with equines.
If that were the case then, wouldn't that be a bad thing for Equestria? I mean, now they're going to be stuck with several pony nations, and thats assuming the converted humans decide to maintain their alleigiance to whichever nation they were members of. This would be bad, because being the possesive creatures we are, we will do anything to gain more power, and we are willing to fight for it. In the long-term, this would likely lead to WW3.
Why would a human choose to Go Pony?
Well, let's consider.
The human world, today, is a brutal one for the majority of human beings, who live in abject poverty, suffering from countless easily prevented diseases. Most humans barely get enough to eat, and many starve to death. There are, at any given time, about one hundred wars going on, most fought by conscripted children under the age of 16. Some child soldiers are pre-pubescent. In much of the world, women are chattel, property, with little to no rights, multi-generational debt-slavery and blatant, open slavery are commonplace, and cruel regimes commit genocide and ethnic cleansing constantly.
Oh, you don't know about all of this? That's right, we're all on computers in the First World, aren't we? All fat and happy, sipping colas and enjoying our Ipads. But I assure you the vast majority of people on this planet don't have the luxury of sitting back and wondering about fictional ponies. They are too busy starving, fighting against their will, or serving as slaves.
What does Equestria offer?
No war. No hunger. No slavery. Equality between all genders and breeds. No genocide. No ethnic cleansing. Clean air. Clean water. Superior, magical medicine that can cure literally anything from regenerating a tooth to conquering a magical ailment. A truly benevolent government run not by fallible humans but by immortal goddesses that love every being they look after like doting mothers. A life of friendship, beauty, peace and endless fun, not to mention real, amazing magic.
Gosh, I can't imagine why the majority of mankind would give up child slavery and dying of disease, abuse and hunger for that! I guess you have a real point here. I can't imagine why I was so blind.
Yay, genocide! Go Mankind! Whooo-hooo!
I am being so flippant and snarky because it is inevitable that the person who cannot imagine the lure of being a pony in Equestria is always -always- an uninformed, privileged person who has never known real want, real need, or understood what real suffering even is.
We all suffer. But much of Mankind is lucky just not to starve on any given day.
It's easy to proclaim how wonderful the human world is when one is sitting fat in a comfy chair typing on an expensive keyboard in front of a huge monitor.
And you can tell just how privileged and ignorant you are if, at any point, you thought 'hey! my keyboard isn't that expensive' or 'My monitor is a small one!'
Starving child soldiers don't have either.
Wow, excellent. You really present a more fair and balanced view of things. And while Midnight and Chatoyance are being their usual misanthropic selves (I love you two), you actually presented all the problems with such a scenario in a short fic. Really, I love this mainly because it holds up hope and mutual understanding- Something most usual CB stories lack, which is completely against the pony universe.
So ignore Midnight and Chatoyance (I don't actually love you two). You really skewer the bad aspects, and there are a lot of them, of TCB universe. Congrats man, you just got my first favorite on the site.
375736
Those are all valid points, but they are never brought up in any of the Conversion Bureau fics I have ever seen; and I've seen a lot. Seems convenient, no? They also never mention opening bureaus anywhere else than the US. The one exception that i saw was in your commemorative fic in the chapter located in space with all the "fads". Other than that, the Conversion Cureaus seem to stay in the general area of the US.
Anyway, this is a great story for debating. Just look at all these comments!
375903
"Those are all valid points, but they are never brought up in any of the Conversion Bureau fics I have ever seen"
Then you haven't read mine.
Yes I have. The one exception that i saw was in your commemorative fic in the chapter located in space with all the "fads." I just cant remember the name of that particular chapter, as it has been several weeks since then and I have been quite busy. I read plenty of your fics too, such as Code Majeste, The 800 year promise and several chapters of 27 Ounces.
I didn't mean specifically your stories, just the majority of the others make no mention of other countries that i have seen.
376475
Just to provide facts, not taking a side (Though I side with you) it's Chapter 5. And to me, it has all the other cliches of the fandom, just set in a slightly different location with the wording changed around a bit.
376506
Thank you, I hate it when I forget things like that.
376514
No prob. Always glad to help. I thought you meant Chapter 2 myself for a while 'til I saw the title for 5 and remembered.
... This is the point where I bash my head against the wall for memorizing so much about these fics. Sigh.
376522
Still though, they are well written and fun to read. I do like them, just because it is a novel idea.
376540
As I said above, I don't care for them. That's an understatement, but I'm keeping things down low for today, partly to not come off as an obsessive lunatic on this subject (Which I admittedly am), and also out of a sense of restraint I'm putting on myself just for Chatoyance, for reasons we both know of. We've tried the whole debate thing before, it didn't work out for reasons I'd rather not say due to being prejudiced on the matter, and let's leave it at that.
376564
*le shrug* I'm not terribly good with debate myself. To each his (or her) own is my philosophy, so you have your tastes that I'm not going to complain about, and I have mine that im not going to spew everywhere. Then everybody is happy.
376613
It's not as simple as that really, at least in regards to what I'm talking about. But let's say the debates were never really 'debates.' I'd rather not speak more unless through PM if you're interested.
i LOVED this little one shot. i was heavily dissapointed with TCB when i read it.
it's an alternate timeline of Fallout, but with ponies'. you have to admit, the whole dystopian future sounds a lot like pre-great war America in the Fallout verse and that sounded AWESOME!
when i first heard about it i thought 'holy CRAP
then it got into that whole 'our species is bad and we should feel bad' thing and i started seeing all the plot-holes and started hating it. i still read some of the side stories from time to time, but it's mostly to laugh at how silly the premise is.
you Good sir or madame get a hearty approval from me. Good job
375736 HEY!
NOONE IS ALLOWED TO OUT CYNICAL MEEEEE!!!!!!!!
375736
Yes, I've never been in foster care with psychotic foster parents who think a good way of controlling children is to strap them into a high chair for hours on end.
I've never been in a homeless shelter thanking my lucky stars years later I was young enough to be in the 'woman's part. Screaming boy children are not something you ever need to hear.
I've never had to watch my mother work four jobs just to keep her three children fed and clothed.
I've never had to give up the twenty dollars I found one day so she could go buy food.
I've never been assaulted because I was one of only four white children in a black school.
I've never had to watch my wife slowly fade away because of her genetic disorder.
I've never had to avoid going home because my mother's girlfriend was high and ranting. Or my mother, depending on the time of day.
I've never had to keep my mother's sexuality a secret because otherwise, we'd be taken from her.
I've never had to lie or steal or fight for my free lunch card back.
I've never been on food stamps and family assistance and everything else under the sun and yet still had to watch as my possessions are pawned so we could make the electrical payment that week.
I've never had to watch my mother taken away because the psychiatrist prescribed the wrong anti-psychotic and actually caused a nervous break down that resulted in a few hundred dollars of property damage that, somehow, made it a criminal offense rather than a civil matter. And then she was in jail for three months because they 'lost her paperwork.'
Oh, wait. Yes I have. EDIT: I cursed here. I try not to do that as it rarely makes good feelings. But you upset me. You really upset me. I don't want to hear from you over this. I don't want to see you anymore. I need some time to calm down. I was going to browse the stories here before I went to bed but I think I should just turn in for the night. Don't know if I can sleep, I feel ill. But needs must as the devil drives and all. I have work tomorrow anyway. Good day, sir.
377305
I did not mean to upset you so. Hear that. Not my wish.
But, I ask you, is it not beyond horror, that the misery and awfulness you describe -and it is beyond terrible and wrong- is still living high on the hog compared to the majority of the human population? And it is. You know it is, even as bad as you say.
I've seen crap too. Lots of shit. I've been down with no way up, out on the street, on my ass, and I've stared into the muzzle of a gun and literally shit myself. I've lived some scary ass shit in my 52 years, Minalkra. So don't think I don't understand.
But even I admit that, compared to Haiti, most of Africa, most of China, most of the Middle East, most of India, and a hell of a lot of the Pacific Rim, all the shit I've endured is still living the life of The Man, compared to starving in hardscrabble and being eaten by rats. That's a hard admission. To say that there is pain in this world bigger than my own. But I say it. I know it. A lot worse.
It's hell that this is so. But it is true.
I meant no disrespect, Minalkra. Not a bit.
But it is sooo easy for any of us, here where the computers and the fast food and the pony shows are, to forget that even when we live totally crap lives, we are still better off. That is one hell of a thing, isn't it? All our misery, and it still doesn't even touch what most of humanity suffers. Hard to admit. Hard to look at. Hard to deal with.
That said, I wasn't so much writing to you, as I was to all the people who can't get why escaping to a better world would not be attractive. I get so tired of the old thing that 'oh, humanity is so great and our stuff is so cool'. No. I don't exactly agree with that.
I did not mean to trivialize your experiences. I only meant to state the truth, for us both, you and me, and all the others here; that we still have it better than those suicidal people making our iPads and our Nikes and starving in the streets for no damn reason other than human greed.
So... let's not be all up in each other, OK? I bear you no malice here.
377414
This seems to have turned into a personal issue.
Lets start with this: People are incapable of understanding their own advantages. We are hardwired to bypass that in order to continue exploiting our own advantages. Its psycology is all I am saying.
Secondly, you do not state the "truth". This world is made up for the most part of fools and decievers, both irreconcilable foes to truth, both of them having two sets of eyes to view the world in their own truths. What you offer is a viewpoint, you do not offer the "truth". To narrow this down to truths or lies is like trying to narrow down ethics to ''good' and ''evil''. It is Slave Morality. The real "truth" is something that only few people are allowed to have and it comes with heavy demands. I do not know the "truth", you do not know the "truth", most people on this site don't.
Thirdly, going back to your original post, why would a human choose to Go Pony? There is no need to answer that question, even through I have my answers, because such a thing is, in the end, pointless. Lets make this clear to some people, ponies are a neurotic and psycological projection, a wish full fillment of what we consider to be desirable and true happiness, what we think we lack and what we can change. It is a hypothetical object of comparison for us to mimic. In little words, it is what we think we want in life and for the whole of humanity. We have spent so much time being oppressed and berated and being slaves to morality and society and having to deal with inequality, that has made things such as freedom, equality and good will so valueable. And since we want them so much we encompise them into our works.
Don't take this the wrong way, I am not implying that what you said, or what anybody said here is wrong. There are facts and then there are opinions. The first leads to knowledge, the other leads to ignorance. The fact that people go around starving to death is one thing. It is horrible and it is disgusting, inhumane. The reason why they starve to death is much more complex then human greed. Human greed is simply the symptom. You have to look for the disease here.
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Honestly Jennifer, I can say a lot of things about what you said, mostly about them being wrong as all fuck, but The Greek Dollmaker has summarized it well. You are trivializing the issue here, you're seeing things only in the simplest manner, i.e blaming them on human greed, without taking a big long look at the causes of such events. No one can claim to have never suffered. And there are places in the Mid. East and Asia that actually prosper, just like how we still can have immense suffering in the first world. It's all relative.
I can claim to have suffered greatly, and from a certain point of view, that would be true. But I know that there are still those who have suffered more, and for reasons far beyond simple 'human greed.' And while you can claim to say we're the misinformed ones here on our ideas that sacrificing our very minds and bodies to something else might not be as attractive as you would think, perhaps you're a tad biased yourself? Really, the last few comments on this thread went far too personal for me to feel safe about, as you proceeded to make some accusations without context or just cause and not actually answer the questions about the problems about TCB. That is where you fucked up, plain and simple.
The Conversion Bureau... disgusting to me. Beyond it, worse than Cupcakes itself.
I've been down, not as low as some but I've been pretty damned down. I've seen evil in the face, but you know what? I've seen good, too. Oh, yes. And to throw out the bad and good of humanity is wrong. It's cultural and biological genocide.
That's the Conversion Bureau.
And this, is a good take on it, a lot more realistic, for lack of a better word, than the usual... things we see from this corner.
377414
I hate to ask this but what problems do the world faces that the only solution is being turned into a pony? I don't question the existence of suffering in the world. You are correct to point out the problem, but your solution is rather dubious. In fact, those problems would make setting up a conversion bureau impossible.
Do you think the people who commit genocide against other ethnic groups would give up being a part of their ethnicity to be turned given the fact that they kill their fellow human people for being in a different ethnic group? Do you think a Rwanda Tutsi, who was born and raise to love his ethnic group and to hate the rival Hutu tribe and wage war against them would give up being a Tutsi and be turned into a pony? What about the German SS officers running concentration camps to make Germany and its conquered territory free of the so-called "inferior" races? Do you think they would choose to be ponies?
Do you think that the African warlord Kony would permit ponies to set up a conversion bureau in his territory? He would send those very same child soldiers who you wish to help to slaughter any pony that sets foot in the Congo. It's not out of the question they would follow orders. Kony has no problem getting them to kill humans for him. Imagine setting up a conversion bureau in Nazi Germany. Same results as setting up shop in war-torn Congo except Nazi Germany has Joseph Goebbels, the Third Reich Minister of Propaganda, who will somehow convict the Nazi Party faithful that the Conversion Bureau is a plot by the ponies and the Jews to destroy the Aryan race. Even relatively benevolent governments would be unlike to permit their citizens to be ponified. The loyalty of these ponified humans would be called into question. Are they still devoted to the country of their birth or to Equestria? Bureaucrats and politicians seldom take action that will diminish their power. The only places where conversion bureaus would be permitted to operate would be nations that place a strong emphasis on individual liberty and freedom. And guess what? Those places tend to be the most prosperous and peaceful places to live when compared to the rest of the world.
For you see, most of the world's problems today can be contributed to abuses of government or ethnocentric prejudices. Those suffering in developing nations can't use the conversion bureaus because they are either still caught up on ethnocentric thinking and/or they are under the thumb of a totalitarian or kleptocratic government that would not permit them in their territory, and the people who do live in nations that permit conversion bureaus don't need ponification to solve their problems (they may want to be ponified, but it's not a necessity for them) because individual liberty and freedom has given them a good life.
One more thing to consider. In the original Conversion Bureau story, humans have been in contact with ponies for centuries. That's centuries for Celestia to carry out a propaganda campaign over the course of many human generations and to steer society towards accepting assimilation into the herd. She has the lifespan for this long-term planning. She doesn't have to worry about future pony rulers scrapping her plans. This actually makes the Blaze story more plausible than the ones where ponies are discovered by man in the near future and humanity is eager to give up their very nature and identity to become ponies.
The other TCB concept is on the high plausibility scale (as far as human behavior is concern and excluding the existence talking magic ponies) is PER. A small group of ponified humans, dissatisfied with the lack of interest in ponification by the general population, goes rogue and force people to be turned. I can definitely see that.
379875
377414
For a long time today, I was hesitant to respond to you, Chatoyance. I was ... emotional when I read your first posting. I apologize for being as harsh as I was but I feel I was justified slightly in being so. While it may not seem like it to you, the way I read your post (and still read it, actually) was essentially you calling me "fat and happy, sipping colas and enjoying [my] Ipad..." As much as my story and postings may have irked you, that was frankly uncalled for. After reading your second post, I see you didn't quite mean it that way. Please, accept my apologies for misreading your post but also my firm stance behind my response to yours.
However, CrossoverManiac has said about 50% of the things I would have liked to draw your attention to in your assertions. I would add to it the fact that human religions almost universally condemns the 'non-human' to the point of proscribing simple body modifications in many situations. And humanity is an extremely faithful species with a vast majority of those places where you would like to point to as benefiting from ponification the cores of human religion. Imams across the globe would forbid ponification (Middle East of course). The Pope would undoubtedly denounce it as 'contrary to Gods plan' (South America is extremely Catholic). The American South would probably be the site of extremist attacks on ponies and those that chose that route (Baptist, in most respects). Africa is, as Crossover pointed out, mired in ethnic conflict that outright hates the 'other' and what is more other than intelligent, candy-colored ponies? Here's a simple test: if it is a place that being homosexual is still a situation where you take your life in your own hands should you let someone know, that's probably a good sign that ponies and ponification would not be tolerated.
But let's get to a bit of the heart of the situation, as I see it. You feel ponification is a good thing. I don't disagree in total. IF it really is as the show says it is and IF Equestria is as clean as most believe and IF the Princesses aren't tyrants in disguise and IF they have true equality and liberty and IF and IF and IF ... Better the terror you know than the horror you don't? But still, even with all those unanswered questions (and, really, rather silly academic ones as it is just a children's show and doesn't exist), I would still be for ponification. Except it's really not ... I don't know how to phrase this. Honorable? Honest?
WE humans made this planet what it is, for better or worse. We did this, you included. Ever buy a Stouffers microwavable meal? You're supporting, through your pocketbook, deforestation of the Amazon, wage-slavery, flat-out-slavery in some plantations, mistreatment of workers, governmental abuses of rights ... Our fathers and mothers and grandfathers and grandmothers did what they thought best to survive and prosper. And, in some cases, because we were trying to do what we thought was right. Not because we're evil or greedy or foul. Go to ANY human on the street and ask if they are evil and almost no one will say yes. The Nazis wouldn't say yes and they were right bastards. Everyone may admit to doing bad things but they are, at their heart, good people. We didn't have a Princess Celestia mother-figure to guide us. We never had an undying sun-lord to tell us, from her thousands of years of life and experience, what works best and what we ought do. We did this, together and unaided. And frankly, we did a fairly decent job without some Mommy-Sun or Daddy-Sun or somesuch telling us what to do, in a real physical sense (I'm discounting ancient stories because who knows where those came from). Is the world messed up? Sure. In some places worse than others and overall I'd give it a big fat 2 of 10 on the 'nice place to live' scale. But it's our world, our mess, our problems. We did a crappy job but we never had any real instructions or teachers.
And here's the rub. When the ponification comes in those stories, what happens? All the human-made problems go away ... at the hooves of our furry benefactors. Humans-turned-ponies help but overall, it's the ponies cleaning OUR mess, cleaning our mistakes, cleaning our planet and cleaning us up. Take a drink, have all your childhood neuroses dissipate. They've given us a free ride, a free pass, a 'get out of a purgatory you made free' card. That's just, ugh, irresponsible. We CAN be better, we can be nice and happy and damn near perfect. So when I say I wouldn't be a pony, I mean it. Not because it's hip' or 'ironic' or whatever, though you never said so and I don't think that's what you meant. I mean it because I'm not going to throw away two million years of evolution and several thousand years of cultural growth because an easier life comes along. If I wanted the easy way out, I'd have slit my wrists decades ago.
373938 ">> Nightgazer
That assumes the process cures them somehow. That actually might be TBC canon, I can't remember and I'll be arsed if I'm going to read the whole story to find out. Still, I'll keep my asthma and my thumbs. "
Let's see now.
Stay a human with my swollen, from parasites in the lymph-veins, legs and feet and soon to spread to groin with great pain and which will eventually kill me quite dead.
Or become a pony and have a healthy body, parasite-induced pain gone, life no longer ending before 41 or thereabouts for me anymore.
Hmmm...
Fire up that conversion machine and let me in there to be ponified and pain free!
380808
Just to mention with your whole 'religion' thing, but seeing as both Catholicism and Islam are open to the existence of extraterrestrial life, I think they'd be okay with ponies. I don't think they, or anyone else for that manner, would be okay with two magical ponies that insist they control the sun or moon, but then again it depends on how it's all presented I suppose.
381764
Oh my god, The Conversion Bureau universe is just one big Scumbag Steve. That is brilliant.
If being "ponified" cures the humans undergoing the process of all their ills (asthma, cancer, whatever), why isn't it possible for the ponies to simply cure the afflicted human WITHOUT changing their species? I mean, if they have the ability to alter the physical body on such a fundamental level, why can't they use the same process/magic/technology/whatever without the "ponifying" part? Heck, it should be EASIER, I'd think. It almost seems like the ponies are deliberately holding this back, as in "Oh sure we can cure you, but first you have to give up your body. And your nation and your culture. And parts of your mind. Really, most of what makes you you." Ponies are only willing to really help you if you are pony as well... sounds a bit racist. Scumbag Steve indeed.
On that note, I have to agree with how nonsensical it would be for everyone who is "ponified" to immediately swear allegiance to the Princesses. Doesn't make any sense. Same with changing their names to something more pony-like. Why would changing their physical form change EVERYTHING about who they are as a person? A possible explanation for this is that it also changes their mind as well, in which case it effectively kills who they once were and replaces them with a pony that resembles who they were in many ways and yet isn't really them anymore (which I find incredibly disturbing).
If the argument is that the new ponies have to assimilate into Equestrian life, and that if they simply became ponies without swearing allegiance to the Princesses they would still have all the same problems they had before (which they would unless their mind was changed as well, and I already pointed out how INCREDIBLY DISTURBING THAT IS), then WHY did they have to become ponies in the first place? Couldn't they have remained human and just lived under Celestia's rule?
Of course, there's the whole thing about magic being deadly to humans... It's like radiation, or something, from what I can tell. Targeted radiation that is lethal to humans and not ponies. And yet it is treated as a good thing? What if the human world emitted a type of radiation that was deadly only to ponies, but not any other plants or animals? Would that still be a good thing? I can't quite illustrate my point clearly here, but I hope I at least communicated the basis of my frustration.
Anyway, if the radiation ("magic") is harmful to humans and nothing else, why couldn't the ponies come up with a way to transform humans into human-like beings that AREN'T harmed by the radiation? Again, they have the capability to fundamentally alter and reshape the physical form of a living being, so why couldn't they simply make humans immune to or at least not harmed by the radiation instead of turning them into ponies? Makes no sense.
Lastly, I must point out that the ponies of the Conversion Bureau universe are committing genocide, and the only question is whether it is "merely" cultural genocide or complete genocide.
Okay, that wasn't the most articulate post I've ever made, but hopefully it was at least somewhat understandable. Perhaps I have misunderstood some aspects of the CB universe and am unjustly upset. If so, please let me know so. Again, sorry for the poor quality of my writing, I haven't had much sleep this week.
EDIT: Minalkra's comment of "...our furry benefactors." just gave me an image of the ponies as the Combine. The similarities are actually somewhat frightening.
383372
It is usually shown to alter their personality and treated as a good thing since it the new personality is more happy and I don't think any explanation has ever been given as to why you have to change your name, culture, and country. It’s one of the more irritating things I find about the whole thing. The ponies are pretty much forcing humanity to choose between completely surrendering all of your freedoms, right down to control of your mind and body or dying.
I really like this story. Especially the Human Pride Front. They seem like a much more realistic human response. Peaceful protests and pointing out how racist the ponies are and how they are profiting from genocide.
381764
Ways to have mass ponification without ponies being Scumbag Steves:
1). The barrier separating Equestria from the human world is falling apart, not even human tech, Celestia, or the Elements of Harmony can stop it, magic is fatal to human physiology, and the only way they won't die is ponification
2). Ponification is purely the creation and idea of humans a.k.a. PER and they act as the Scumbag Steves in the story
3). A human, who coveted pony powers, decides to do a little genetic tweaking on himself and give himself telekinetic powers like a unicorn and goofs up. The retrovirus he used to encode pony DNA into his cells goes into overdrive and turns him into a pony. Not only that, but the retrovirus is extreme contagious and, as a result, ponification becomes a pandemic.
4). Because of Derpy Hooves
http://www.vhemt.org/
I think is a prime example of the type of mindset necessary for the vast majority of our species to be willing to give up their identity as humans and to become ponies.
In real life, the Volunteer Human Extinction Movement is a non-entity in our society. But somehow, in the world of the Conversion Bureau, this self-hating, anti-human mindset became commonplace enough that people thought of humanity as nonredeemable and fallen too far from grace to be saved. I know it's not exactly the same as VHEM, but in both cases humanity is thought of something negative and be destroyed for the good of the world. For VHEM, the solution is to not procreate and negative population growth. For the Conversion Bureau, it is to transform man into a being that is supposedly more benign and peaceful.
382990
Yes but I don't think people turning into ponies is part of any human god's plan and they both seem to be pretty big on that sort of thing. Ponies being here, ok. Ponies trying to turn us all into ponies, not so much. Hinduism might be down with it but probably not as it short-cuts the whole 'get rid of bad karma' thing you're supposed to do before Nirvana.
383372
It is total genocide. The expanding radiation from Equestria will kill every Human and wipe all traces of Humanity from the Earth. Not to mention the ponified Humans do not have any memories of being Human nor do they have keepsakes/artifacts of Humanity's time.
You also mentioned why can't the Ponies make Humans immune or at least resistant to the radiation. Well, Chatoyance's cyberpunk-esque setting has very advanced nanotech (hell, the ponification serum in her stories is a nanotech/magic hybrid solution). So why can't humanity use nanomachines (or hybrid magic-nanomachines) to repair the damage caused by the radiation?