Shortly after "Keep Calm and Flutter On", Discord has conversations with several of the Mane 6, and other characters. They do not necessarily go all that well. Character tags will be added as I add sections. Chapter descriptions will be added here as I start writing new pieces, not necessarily after I upload them. Takes place in the same continuity as "Last Draconequus", "Princess Twilight Sparkle Endcaps" and "Elements of Opposition".
"Mutually Assured Embarrassment" - Not a clopfic, but mature subject matter. Twilight has an erotic nightmare (not shown) about Discord raping her. Discord watches it and then shows up to inform her how offended he is that her subconscious mind thinks he's pathetic enough to rape ponies. Twilight wants to die of humiliation, but only after killing Discord several times.
"All Apologies" - Discord takes Pinkie to dinner to apologize to her for what he did to her in the labyrinth. It goes well, until it doesn't.
Now with a Progress Bar!
Normally this would not be something I would have read, but it does seem very interesting. Especially because I like reading stuff about Discord, because he is mostly a blank slate. With characters like Discord, Celestia, and Luna, we only have a basic understanding of who they are, and each of us watching the show perceive them as different. One of my friends perceives Discord as just another villian, while another friend understood the difference between 'evil' an 'Chaos', and how Discord was only doing what he was born to. And there are so many different perspectives, that I will be waiting for the storie's updates.
Very nice exploration of Discord's character.
I've often thought that he and Pinkie Pie could have been friends were they not on opposite sides. Mostly because Discord was (at the time) being evil while Pinkie is definitely good. Also, in D&D terms (which actually fit the MLP-verse so surprisingly well that I wonder if the writing team all role-played old style D&D), there are some hints that despite Pinkie's chaotic tendencies she's pulled around toward lawfulness by her own strong albeit weird code of honor, which would make her Neutral rather than Chaotic Good).
Now Fluttershy, she's Chaotic Good. Which is why another reason beyond her Kindness that she's a good Morality Chain for Discord: she can really understand his creativity, and channel it toward less harmful ends. I could even see them possibly falling in love, though I fear the consequences might be tragic for either or both of them.
I also agree with you that Twilight is the least sexually-experienced of the Mane Six, and probably for the reasons you mentioned. Not that I think that the others are all that sexually-experienced either, on the whole, but I wouldn't be surprised if Twilight's never even romantically kissed anypony, which would be odd for a full-grown mare even in my own version of Equestria (which is a lot more sexually-conservative than some people write it). And yes, I could see why in that case she might have some erotic dreams.
I can even see why she'd have one about Discord. He's one of only two male entities she's met who is actually more powerful than her. And superior power can be a turn-on. And it would almost certainly be a rape dream for the reasons Twilight mentioned.
I can easily see Celestia and Discord being in love in their youth, especially if you go with the idea that they were raised together. Celestia not only has a sly sense of humor that would have gone well with a more innocent Discord, but there are lot of hints in canon that they at least used to be friends. Which of course would make their later enmity all the more personal, and even more so if they were actually lovers as well.
I also agree that Luna would hate Discord. I see Luna, despite her famous act of rebellion, as being essentially a very honorable and honor-driven person, and with a much more child-like and direct sense of humor than her sister. Discord's sarcasm, even before he started acting lethally toward anyone, would have gotten on her nerves. Plus, she would have been the butt of some of his jokes.
And yes: I do think that Luna and Twilight would get along well. Absent a reason such as the one I gave in Nightmares Are Tragic etc., I don't know if it would be a romantic friendship (I see both of them as straight), but I do think that they have a lot in common, including some similar interests and mostly-compatible codes of honor (the main difference being that Luna is more direct and violent than Twilight).
Anyway, I really like the way you've handled Discord
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Hmm. It's been a long time since I played D&D. What about Fluttershy do you perceive as Chaotic? I would have thought that her power to enforce her will on others, where her will is, typically, for them to do the right thing by her code of standards, puts her closer to Lawful (Discord's mind control powers don't make anyone submit to his will, they alter their personalities into something they're not. He may or may not be able to get anypony to commit a specific action through mind control, though he can use mind control to make it more likely that they will. Fluttershy's power is more an enforcement of will and standards, which I tend to see as falling in the Lawful spectrum.) She's more willing to accept a high level of Chaos in her life than anypony except for Pinkie Pie, but she doesn't generate it; in fact her whole life is about restoring Order to Chaos (disorganized group of animals, all of whom have their own agendas and desires, which she controls and forces into appropriate behavior through being kind and caring, but stern when she needs to be. Fluttershy does as much for bringing Order to Chaos as a day care teacher or a diplomat. :-))
My take on it is that Luna feels incredibly betrayed by Discord. He was like a big brother to her (and no, she didn't appreciate the pranks or the teasing, but in some ways he understood her better than Celestia ever did.) Luna and Discord used to work closely together, because they both saw themselves as Celestia's protectors, in a way, the beings who could do the dark and dirty deeds that Celestia should not so that Celestia could stay pure. (The fact that Celestia knew they were doing it and let them do it indicates she was never as pure as either of them thought, but Equestria needed *somepony* who didn't directly have dirty hands to be the primary ruler.) Luna actually trained Discord in dreamwalking so that he could train her in creating nightmares; the term "nightmare" itself dates from Luna, whose title (among others) was the Night Mare, using dreams as a weapon against Equestria's enemies, and she worked with Discord to learn how to do that. So when he turned against Equestria (in her perception; he at least started out thinking he was doing the right thing), she was enraged and felt betrayed (whereas Celestia mostly felt guilty because she knew Discord was unstable and she'd wanted to be there to help him and she hadn't been able to.) He also planted a lot of the seeds that became Nightmare Moon while he was trying to drive a wedge between the two of them before they managed to seal him in stone (not that he knew her turning into Nightmare Moon was a possibility, he was mostly trying to separate the two because they were more effective working together and because he just likes disharmony.) And even though he has supposedly reformed, he hasn't actually apologized to Luna, Celestia, or anyone or shown any genuine remorse for anything he ever did; unlike Luna, who truly feels guilty over her actions as Nightmare Moon, Discord's changed his behavior because it gets him what he wants, not because he feels bad about what he's done. So she has several excellent reasons to hate him. Plus, as you said, she's very driven by honor and loyalty.
I don't think it would be a romantic friendship either; I think that the sex imbalance we see in the show suggests that the ponies are a lot more comfortable with same-sex romance than we are (their version of our homophobia is disgust with xenophilia), but I see Twilight as straight and I don't know enough about Luna to be able to tell. Discord claiming that Luna would fall in love with Twilight is Discord being Discord, not an accurate representation of what I think would actually happen. I think that eventually, Twilight's role as an alicorn will be in part to be the bridge between the sisters, raised and trained by Celestia but closer in some ways to Luna, and that her name kind of gives it away (and the fact that Celestia's previous student was Sunset Shimmer suggests that Celestia's been looking for such a bridge to become the third princess of Equestria for some time. Cadance is of the Crystal Empire, her destiny was never to rule beside the sky sisters.)
BTW, I've put the story you mentioned on my To Read list; as soon as I saw in the comments that you were also a fan of "The Stress of Her Regard" I knew I was going to have to check your stuff out. :-)
Pretty good story. I want to read some more please.
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You make a good point about Fluttershy, though I will note that of all the Mane Six she's the one I could most see breaking a promise, if need be, to help someone in need. But that's the "Lawful vs. Good" dilemna, which would make her Neutral Good.
They've never shown Luna in canon being interested in anyone, but in one of the comic books they show her flirting with Big Mac. Not that she's necessarily being all that serious about it even in the comic book, but since most ponies are probably straight, I'll take it as an indication that she probably is straight too.
I loved this, and I can't wait to read the next one. I would love to write a lengthy synopsis of this, but I wouldn't be capable of putting anything together that the others haven't already. I immediately understood that he was talking about Celestia, though. I, myself, have a personal ship in my head, just for him. I've noticed it's a big thing with everyone that Luna and he wouldn't get along, but I ask why? Why would she hate him so much? What did he do to her that she didn't do to Celestia shortly there after? Why would she find him so irredeemable when she eagerly accepted her own reacceptance. If she hated him for all he did so much, than she surely would never have let her own sister forgive her.
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I am actually going to do one for Discord and Luna.
In my universe, the main reasons Luna hates Discord are that she feels betrayed by him -- Celestia saw herself as holding some responsibility for holding Discord's sanity together and thus feels guilty over his fall to the batshit crazy side, whereas Luna feels that he could have held himself together if he'd really wanted to -- and that Discord has no remorse for what he's done, unlike Luna. (In fact, Discord still blames Celestia and Luna for abandoning him and then turning against him. This bears no resemblance to any logical description of what actually happened, but it's Discord. He and logic don't get along.)
I actually see the two of them as having a lot in common potentially, in many ways more than Discord and Celestia did, but because they have absolutely no canon interactions I don't get a romantic vibe, so I have it more as a brother and sister thing. I also think if Discord could ever bring himself to admit anything was his fault Luna might well forgive him, but Discord's "reform" is about him embracing a change in behavior because it gets him something he wants, not about him acknowledging he was wrong in the past.
3814451 I suppose that does make sense, and I would love to read that when you write it. You are getting a follower, Sir (Ma'am?). I like the way you think, and how you portray that thought process into your writing. I don't have nearly that much skill. I don't get a romantic vibe from them either, but I still feel it would be plausible for them to befriend one another if they were made to sit down and talk. Being two of only three everlasting beings on their planet, I feel like they have to, eventually, accept that those are the people they're going to spend eternity with and begin to accept each other for who they are.
That was a fantastic piece, I must say. Excellent analysis and wonderful characterization. It gets rather "talking heads"y at points, but it was still a great read and a well-considered defense of your headcanon. Thank you for it.
I look forward to the exploding cupcake fountains whenever they may come.
I admit that I was antsy when I read the description, I don't think concepts as dark as rape, torture, or gratuitous killing have a place in the FiM-verse, even in fanfiction. Not just because of the source material, but simply because I've seen so many people use the darker aspects of what people are capable of to push some secret agenda to spread more fear.
I'm very glad I read this, as I too am extremely annoyed by how common it is to place a character like Discord as a rapist and because the issues I listed earlier didn't occur in this. It all felt extremely genuine, and the dialogue you've listed for Discord was incredible. Discord is often a difficult character to write, especially during his brief moments of lucidity and self-reflection, but you completely nailed both the funny, the threatening, and the strangely sentimental aspects of his personality absolutely perfectly.
Twilight was written well as well of course, her outright aggression through her speech but her in-depth thought processing played well for the character and did her justice. I do admit that Discord did steal the show for me. Hell, you managed to take the 'morals' Discord has shown in the show and actually managed to make them look... almost reasonable considering the circumstances. Anyways, I'm starting to ramble, but it was a great story and I'm glad to get to read it.
"but they still got a failing grade"
You know.. Every teacher I've ever encountered would give someone either a pass or as much time as they needed to learn the material if they'd suffered significant mental trauma. Which a thousand years of sensory deprivation certainly counts as. Twilight could've done better with her entire school metaphor there. Replace 'Being under a lot of stress' with 'being tortured and partially eaten by crazed hillbillies' maybe.
Also, she's a hypocrite. Other than the Luna/Discord thing, theres also.. tada, psychologists who spent years training in how to help people with this. She could've sought and acquired various kinds of help at any time.
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It's Twilight. She thinks she'll be sent back to Magic Kindergarten for a report not turned in on time. I read Twilight's weird obsessiveness as a combination of the magic school actually being fairly tough and demanding, at least for the most powerful students -- it's when you're physically at your worst that you're going to have the hardest time controlling your magic, after all, so pushing kids to get it right even when they don't feel well or have extenuating circumstances is probably best for everyone's safety, if they're really powerful -- and also, Twilight being Twilight.
I go back and forth on how much understanding of psychology they actually have. I mean, I write Discord and Twilight both knowing what Stockholm syndrome is, so there's some understanding, but they could very well be as a society still at the place where going to a therapist means you're crazy, and anypony who can will avoid the stigma. We never see any evidence that any of the ponies we know go to a psychologist, and god knows they have a lot of mental problems.
Also... Discord is genuinely being a dick. If he had handled this in a calm and polite way that would have had better positive results for both of them, or in other words if he'd been totally out of character, he could have approached Twilight about the issue a few days later, when she's fully awake, on neutral ground... not challenging her in her bedroom about having nightmares about him right after she's just had one. He's genuinely dismayed and wants her to stop, but he has zero empathy for her, and he loves to stir shit up so much he can't quite stop himself.
Twilight's being too hard on him considering that he has in fact been through something awful, but this is the first time he's mentioned it being any worse than uncomfortable... I think Twilight simply does not empathize with others automatically enough to have realized that being trapped in stone for a thousand years while awake and conscious is terrible. (Fluttershy would, but then, Fluttershy promised not to use her Element on him, and that might be part of her reason.) In general ponies don't empathize with Discord because in general he doesn't invite it; he's a jerk, why would you want to feel sorry for him? Also, she's defensively responding to Discord's insistence that she should already know how to do something she wasn't even aware ponies can do.
So yeah, Twilight's metaphor is not great and she really isn't recognizing that Discord is recovering from something that did him a lot of damage, but at the same time, Discord isn't even trying to understand her perspective on the situation -- he's upset and offended, so he's going to upset and offend her back. (Not that he will admit, in so many words, that he's upset and offended, but he kind of eventually did admit to it.)
MOAR PLZ
I loved every second of this fic. I dunno why it isn't more popular, but I thought it was very good.
Was that a stab at one of the many Luna shipfic tropes? Because if so, well done!
Are those a thing? Because if so I now have a name for that dream I had about the giant female spider that wrapped me up and raped me, which in the dream was strangely amazing (And anatomically correct, which you can blame biology books and curiosity). When I woke up I was horrified and hated the idea, yet the memory of the dream sensations was still arousing. The sensations mind you, not the scenario. Just like how Twilight remembers that her dream self loved it, but she herself does not.
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Yep. They're not tremendously uncommon, from what I hear.
I KNEW IT WAS CELESTIA!
But anyway, love the verbal thrashing Discord hands out. This is so beautifully, yet creepily, in character. For everyone involved, but especially for Discord. Headcanon enthusiastically accepted, and I'm pretty sure I will now stay away from... certain Discord fics to avoid suddenly soapboxing about this interpretation.
I look forward to the rest of this.
Love it!
Love it. It made me real sad when pinkie mentioned parents. I'm sure it's a sore spot in discord, even if he won't admit to that. Sure he had the princesses dad, but he had no one in a large period of his childhood development years. Makes me curious how he would have turned out if Madonna hadn't dissappear
Also I adored the extras pinkies.
Well that certainly didn't end the way I expected...and I have to wonder why you settle on using that version of Pinkie Pie? But I guess having multiple others/personalities would be a way to explain her erratic behavior change that happened in Party of One.
Like Pinkie Pie in the Griffinstone episode, apparently...
Wow, this came in just as I was reading the other chapter...
Huh, I guess I didn't expect it to end that badly for him, but I guess it makes sense... Is this going to tie into Not The Hero at any point, or is it a different universe entirely?
Dang this mad me smile, well up to the end when Dissy made his big mistake. Still I understand where the both are coming form. And yes Pinkie was awesome in this chapter. I hope this isn't the Elements of Opposition verse so Pinkie can give him that party.
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Well, it is and it isn't. This is before the AU split. In the "normal" universe, presumably either Discord thought better of going to another dimension to spread chaos, didn't choose that one, or left before Opposition Twilight came up with the means of defeating him. Whatever Discord chose to do, it happened sometime between "Princess Twilight Sparkle" and "Daring Don't." So since this is pre-Twilight's alicornification, either way it hasn't happened yet, so this story takes place in the past of both EOO and my canon-compliant fics.
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Like Elements of Opposition, Not the Hero is an AU split from my main, mostly-canon-compliant universe, which this story takes place in. Unlike EOO, Not the Hero splits right before the Canterlot Wedding episode, so Discord's reformation hadn't happened yet. So no, this story takes place in the branch that does not include Not the Hero. However, this, my canon-compliant fics, Not the Hero, and Elements of Opposition all do have the same backstory for Discord.
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What really got to him is that he still believes he killed his mother, and all the rest of the draconequui in his tribe, by messing up the ritual. So when Pinkie asks him if he'd hurt his parents just because they didn't understand him, that hit a nerve because he believes he did exactly that. (Of course, given that it happened when he was 4 or 5 and it wasn't intentional, this isn't a particularly logical belief, and if he ever figured out that Mastery tried to exclude him from the ritual he'd be happy to place the blame there, but Discord doesn't run on logic and was never explicitly told as a child what was going on.)
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Yeah, kinda. I don't think Luna/Twilight is impossible -- Celestia/Twilight would be horrible, given the mother-like role Celestia had to Twilight, but Twilight and Luna didn't meet until Twilight was a grown adult, so it's perfectly possible to ship them. However, some of the excuses I've seen for why they're being shipped... seem a little thin. :-)
Damn, now I kinda want to see Discord have a conversation with Luna and or Celestia after this. Maybe Luna since shes the closest thing to a villain that's reformed, but she hates his ass if I recall...Ah well, great chapter! Hope the writing muse continues her work on your brain pan :D
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There will be a conversation with Luna, eventually. Possibly one with Celestia, although Celestia has a tendency to make any sort of conversation non-awkward... though if anyone could make her uncomfortable, or push her into trying to make them uncomfortable, it would be Discord.
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I'M SORRY.
I MEANT to say "It it related to No Escape From Yourself"
Obviously it's not related to Not The Hero...
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Yes, it's in the same continuity as No Escape From Yourself.
Pinkie being a chaos user with extras ... makes a surprising amount of sense! It was a great conversation and felt very in-character. Living about 30 minutes from Baltimore myself, I really enjoyed all the local ponifications and puns!
I find Twilight's cold logical analysis of romance, dating and sex (being way too much work and not worth competing for when you start at a disadvantage and don't even know how to compete) in-character and incredibly realistic. That's very much how I think (and luckily my subconscious agrees). I felt bad for Twilight, that whole conversation went way past awkward and straight to mortifying.
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OK. THAT makes sense.
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Agreed, although I think the situation sucked for Discord as well. Picture that you just found out that a friend of a friend, a person you somewhat respect because of the abilities they've demonstrated, thinks you are a rapist. Now add that you're somewhat insecure anyway, because while you like how you look just fine, you're surrounded with people that don't, and telling yourself that they're wrong and stupid only goes so far, so the whole "thinking you're a rapist" thing also ties into "thinks you are too hideous to get a partner" and "thinks you think so too". He's deeply humiliated by this, which is part of why he's going way out of his way to embarrass Twilight as completely as he can -- he's getting revenge on her for thinking he's a rapist. (Twilight does not actually think Discord is a rapist; she just thinks it is potentially in character for him. Discord, however, has taken this to be a much more certain belief than it actually was.)
But yeah. Oh God was he ever an ass about it.
Huh. I thought Mayhem was a completely different draconequus...
Pinkie is entirely justified in thinking someone's recording her life. It is pretty interesting. And given her inexplicable extradimensional pop culture awareness, it may be even more justified on her end.
It's always interesting to see explanations for Pinkie Pie. I think you may have mentioned her chaos powers before, but it's still fascinating to see her learn about it for herself.
Discord's biggest issue seems to be that when he looks at a pony, he sees the purpose that pony fulfills and all of the dials he can adjust, but he either doesn't grasp or doesn't care that all of those properties come together to form another person. I'm leaning towards the latter. This is a mode of thinking that I don't think he's ever had to employ before, and it's antithetical to Disharmony to boot.
A fascinating chapter this. Pinkie is a living demonstration of harmonious chaos. It's no wonder Discord can't comprehend her or what she's trying to tell him. And thus we have the origin of their peculiar arrangement, as seen elsewhere in your work. This was highly enlightening on several levels, and entertaining on several more.
This was brilliant and I'm glad that you're continuing it. You've done the most excellent explanation for how Pinkie Pie can be so random and yet so incredibly organized (most people just say it's some kind of pretending to be random and that it only masks a deep-seated depression). The banter was excellent, the references spot-on and the dialogue was very believable. I'm impressed at how well you handled the transition from dark to hilarious to depressing to hopeful. Truly masterful. I'm contemplating getting a patreon simply to support this project. I think added chapters for Luna and Celestia would be wonderful. Thank you for brightening my day by writing this.
Reading Pinkie's lines actually tired me out because of all the unnecessary details and over-elaborate narration but I suppose that's the point, because I can totally imagine Pinkie talks in this way. Some parts of the conversation really confused me, like I really don't get the point in including the discussion about Pinkie's Chaos magic, that seems unnecessary to me and making the story longer than it should be.
But aside from that it is once again a very brilliant story, despite mainly focusing on conversations it is very interesting and deep. I really love the dynamic between Discord and Pinkie and the way you portrait her in your stories, that she's actually way wiser than she pretends to be. The part where Discord asked Pinkie to stop playing straight mare, and she admitted she's actually playing it all the time is my second favorite scene in this chapter. And that Pinkie refused to accept his apology is very unexpected and brilliant, that part of the conversation really stirred up some feelings in me.
My English is nowhere perfect but I tried my best to express how I felt about this story. Frankly I think you write Discord interacting with Pinkie much better than Discord with the others, so perhaps this will be my favorite chapter in this story. But I'm still looking forwards to updates nonetheless
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Hmm? How's that?
…fairest and fallen. Apropos of discord, really.
sup tag doesn't work here, it seems, and 2000ᵗʰ is a little poorly-aligned.
A carefully-disguised chocolate-cherry cream soda.
Well. That didn't work. I'd side with Discord, but Pinkie's not wrong either.
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....The part where she seduces and kisses a statue of a griffin?
And this is why Ponksie Poo would have been my pick to reform Discord. Not only because she gets Discord on a level that no one else ever would.
But because she would have pushed to have him involved with the others and to grow as a person. It's sad that we rarely saw cannon Discord pushed to those level of understanding.
Still a great story even years later.