This story is a sequel to Detente
Discord takes Fluttershy to see something chaotic he's made that he thinks will be considered harmless and beautiful -- rain made out of light. Fluttershy agrees, but fears that ponies won't accept it anyway. They discuss friendship, and Fluttershy comes to some unwanted conclusions regarding her own feelings. One-sided, mild Fluttercord.
This story is the bridge between Princess Twilight Sparkle Endcaps and Elements of Opposition. To those who have not read the story before, and who like happy endings: don't read the second chapter. It leads directly into Elements of Opposition, and is the main reason the story has a "Sad" tag.
Edited to add cover art. Woo-hoo! The artwork for the cover comes from the wonderful C-Puff, goddess of adorable Fluttershy & Discord friendshipping. :-)
It is a nice Fluttercord bit, especially since a lot of the time I read about them, it's a background "It happened behind the scenes" sort of thing.
Now a true test for the little yellow pony, and one will wonder how well she can hold her temper once she finds the state of the one she loves...
I really enjoyed this fanfic! Any time I see a fic with real effort put into developing thoughts and feelings of the characters I tend to enjoy. You lightly teased as Fluttershy's feelings without having it dive off a cliff of love and I liked that. It came off much more natural than "What is this feeling
LOVE ME!" Great job. ^_^
THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AMAZING
OHMYGOSH OHMYGOSH OHMYGOOOOOSH
i sweeeeaaar i cant wait O______O
i love this SOOOOOOOO MUCH
rrr thannk you so much ^^
i try to not explode while im waiting :DD
This is a fantastic read. I enjoy it a lot. I must now check out some other of your stories. First though one question.
What is. scried?
Just know that every dislike here is just because it's a Fluttercord fic.
They probably haven't even read it!
What a lovely story! I enjoyed it from start to finish!!! Kudos to you.
this is the best story ever
You are the best writer ever! Please write the mane 6 reaction to discord letter as soon as possible
This is a wonderful, charming, <many other superlatives> story interlude. I love the way you build character.
So thanks for that.
3736357
It's misspelled, I should fix it. It's scryed, not scried (the past tense of scry, to use magic to observe, to view or search with magic.)
3737091
Oh, man, I hate rabid shippers. I wonder if that's responsible for the downvotes on my Discord/Celestia stuff too?
I can't really comprehend it because I am not a die-hard shipper of anything; I go where the characters take me. I like Discord with Fluttershy, but I also like him with Celestia, Pinkie Pie, or Twilight, *if* it's well written, which it very often isn't. But even ships that totally don't make sense to me, I would never downvote on the basis of the ship! How can anyone be that rabidly fanatical about fictional characters from a little girls' cartoon hooking up? I mean, it's never going to happen in canon no matter what, so why be an ass about it?
Thanks for the words of encouragement; it's helpful to have a clue where the downvotes are coming from, since it's not like any of them bothered to leave me a comment or anything. :-(
3741350
I haven't read this yet, and I normally reserve my likes and dislikes for after I've read a fic, but if people are downvoting this for shipping war reasons, then I'm going to like this in advance.
Screw those peeps!
The summary alone has me greatly intrigued and is something I could readily see happening. I also like what I've seen of your comments regarding Discord head canon, so I think it's safe to assume I'm going to enjoy this.
Plus, I am open to any pairing where the author put some effort into figuring out how they think the pairing would come together and pan out. I feel that assuming only one pairing for a character is plausible, when no canon pairings are even available, is futile and limiting. Even in the case of a canon pairing, I don't mind, as long as the author took some time to make the non-canon pairing work (although in many cases this can be the off-set of some awkward tension within a fandom, which I prefer to avoid.)
I've been in way too many fandoms to get out of sorts just because someone else likes and/or writes a different pairing. Same for head canon territory, though that can depend on how thoughtful it seems. Besides, if I don't like something, I just don't read it. Although, if I feel as if I should point out some of my views on the subject, I will do so.
Edit: So, I have read this, and I loved it. I should have written a post shortly afterward, while my thoughts were coherent, but instead I read most of the other stuff relating to this one. Upvoted all of those, but was striving to read lots, so didn't stop to comment. May try and comment tomorrow on this, if nothing else. Most of the time I put more effort into leaving a reply when I read something. Sometimes there is nothing to say, but this will definitely need further comment by me, that much is for sure.
If nothing else, you've convinced me to try and read damn near all of your work, so take that as my main commentary, since I won't get one on every fic.
Although, one comment above all others, this needs a cover. I think people may overlook it without one, which is a real shame.
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I can't draw, so almost none of my stuff has a cover.
I'd love to find someone to draw this; I don't want to use a generic Fluttercord image because the imagery of the light rain is so powerful, it seems almost misleading to use a picture that isn't specific to the story. But since I can't draw, little hope of that. :-)
3763761
Ahhh. Yeah, I understand that. I thought I knew of a good candidate to ask permission from. It had such a perfect feel to it that I initially thought it was actually about this story, but the imagery wasn't similar when I looked at it again. I still think it's fitting for the sense of wonder, but if that's what you're after, then it isn't good enough.
If there is a group about getting fanart for fanfiction, then I would recommend shoving this in there and crossing fingers!
(Technically, I can draw, but I couldn't do the imagery justice. At best, I could maybe make a semi-decent sketch of the characters with no background or a crappy one. Maybe. Or else a bad abstract involving the rain of light.)
Okay, so, hopefully all of my thoughts are in order now. I keep getting sidetracked, but that's my fault.
I love this. I was happy that I didn't need to read the other stuff to know what was happening here. You may want to mention that in the description. It can easily stand on its own, though reading the prequels and side-stories adds to it and it adds to them.
The imagery is fantastic. The scene in Saddle Arabia is beyond glorious. I know exactly why you want fanart for the cover and I desperately hope someone provides it. I think not having a cover may be part of why this has been overlooked and it's a real shame. That scene alone should be enough to hook anybody.
I loved the various head canons that you put into this. The lead-up, tying into the Princess Twilight Sparkle premiere was pretty much what I thought as well. You put in some stuff I had already considered, plus a bunch of stuff I'd never thought of!
There's too much to list, honestly, but the memorable highlights include his view on all animals, his diet (in certain respects), and the way ponies treat the world around them (their humanistic oversight handled in what I thought was a realistic way.) I also liked the idea about the rock farming. I've heard a few other ideas, but I loved how that tied into the earth pony magic and your overall concept (while hinting that Pinkie's family are vaguely akin to the Amish? Not sure that was it exactly, but it amused me even if I got the wrong idea.)
I also loved the hint of a crush and it's a real shame that the events in the following stories will ruin that potential. I haven't read them yet, but given what I know from the descriptions, I suspect you're correct and it will be hard, if not impossible, to proceed thereafter. You made her realization incredibly sweet and I loved the imagery that stirred her affection for him.
That said, I think I can see what some people might have disliked about this story. A lot of the beginning is really just exposition. It is necessary and interesting, because it explains a lot about their perspectives and what happened in the episodes, but it goes on for a long time and several sections don't get broken up by a reminder of the world around them. It's a little like talking heads in comics during that time. While I had little trouble reading the dialog, which was well-done, I felt it could have used some editing, maybe, to address those issues. There was also some repetition here and there, but not a lot. The same issue happens again in Saddle Arabia, and while these are all important conversations, and I realize that not a lot would be happening during each discussion, I feel that would help.
I respect that these two characters can be verbose, and in general I loved their dialog, but although Fluttershy naturally hems and haws when nervous, that was also a minor issue. After a certain point, I think her insistence would reaffirm her assertions and her confidence would tighten up some of her overly questioning tone, as well as her hesitancy. You did slide into that a little bit, but not as much as I anticipated. This may just be my personal perspective, but as long as she feels comfortable about her stance and manages to build up some steam, she can become more determined while trying to convince a friend.
I'm also uncertain Fluttershy is necessarily afraid of everything, but that's a minor quibble. She certainly is easily frightened and for that reason she is the perfect pony to explain that kind of reaction, and the reasons behind them, to Discord. Overall, this felt like a really great exploration of both their characters and I loved her analysis of him.
I don't buy that she feels no one would ever love her. We all have our depressive and self-defeating moments, and she does have self-esteem issues. However, I think maybe it could have been hinted at that she knew this was an unrealistic assessment, but she couldn't help thinking that way. As in, she's working on getting rid of that mindset, but it's hard? Otherwise, I would have found this more plausible in season 1 maybe, but not season 4. Fluttershy has had a lot of growth in that direction, and while none of the episodes have expressed this openly, so there's no telling what is truly canon, I feel that she may have realized she's worthy of being cared about. Maybe not utterly, but she at least knows she's good enough to have a number of pony friends who genuinely care about her. She also has the animals, who apparently want to comfort her and help her overcome her shortcomings.
As for Discord, I think my only uncertainty regarding his character is something I picked up on a bit less from this and through-out the other stories. I think it was strongly emphasized here, but maybe more so in the others. I'm not sure how I feel about his view on patterns. It's the aspect of order that he can't stand, and while it makes sense, it would suggest that there is no way for him to really live in the ordinary world. There is also the issue of time... how does it flow for him? I imagine just as unevenly as it does for us (it goes slow we want it to speed up and flies by when we're having fun), but how does this apply to the patterns? Do all the patterns have to be tampered with for his comfort's sake, or can he get by with only some at a time? Is breaking all the patterns like having too much of a good thing or the ultimate relief? Would spreading it out be better, so that he has a few broken patterns for a time that he can savor, then there will be others to go after, before he needs to return to those first new patterns, because they need to be broken again?
I fear this may be a more abstract concept than it initially seems, and while it explains his feelings, it is hard to relate to, in some respects. I'm not sure if that was the intent, but I feel it makes him quite alien, in a way. There is no tangible analogy that I can readily put my finger on, though I suspect it's akin to pegasi flying and unicorns using magic. It's one of those things we can only understand distantly and never truly know, other than how really good writers might be able to envision it. That's not to suggest that your capability is lacking, but I don't think it's a readily available characteristic, unless it's just akin to any given unexplainable compulsion? I'm not sure, and that's why it makes me uncertain how I feel.
I like it as a description, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a horrifying curse, rather than a natural state of being. Or was that the point? I hate not knowing... I feel like I'm missing something obvious and I probably am.
I really did like your suggestion for how being turned to stone might have potentially driven him insane. I'm normally not a fan of 'crazy' in Discord, because most people use it as a throw-away adjective with no meaning or as a dismissive for his thought processes. I do think being trapped could create some serious problems, but most stories I've looked at haven't really delved into exactly why or how. Here it was presented in such a simple way that was absolutely perfect, traumatic, and fairly accurate. Major kudos for that!
Sorry if I got anything confused with one of the other stories. I hope I didn't make too many mistakes, but these are pretty much my thoughts.
Hrmmm, I think that might be about it. I'm eager to read the other related stories, and at some point I'll read the Q-related series.
3768600
Thank you for the really detailed commentary!
I tend to be really wordy. It is probably my biggest failing as an author. The characters talk and talk and talk. :-) So I can definitely see that. I agree with you in retrospect that Fluttershy should know that her self-assessment isn't rational, and maybe she does; it's the moment of being confronted with "oh my gosh I have a crush on this person and they're right here and I could say something" that I think crushes the life out of her self-esteem and sends her spiraling back into "how could anyone ever want me?" It's not a rational feeling at all, and I'm sure she does know it, but I already have the characters go off on too many side tangents.
Oddly enough, Discord's thing with patterns comes from my personal experience, although not being a near-omnipotent being who draws power and comfort from Chaos, I'm not nearly as bad about it as he is. :-) I get really, really frustrated with repetitive fictional tropes, with political ideas that aren't actually connected to each other being perpetually linked, with concepts in human behavior and culture that keep repeating themselves that I feel don't have to and could link up in very different ways. When confronted with these repetitive ideas I feel an overwhelming urge to re-make them, to twist them into a different shape and broadcast them. I'm a writer, that's within my power, so I extrapolated that to Discord. He doesn't just see repetition and boredom in ideas, but in the structure of reality itself, because he has the power to reshape that the same way I have the power to reshape and rebroadcast an idea.
I don't tend to see Discord as a silly prankster (though he does that, obviously); I see him as someone who wanted to be a revolutionary, but was too disconnected from everyone else around him to succeed at that. Discord would probably be a lot happier, and lot less compelled to try to break everything, if he had an appreciative audience for his limited rewrites of reality, if he felt emotionally connected to the sentient beings he shares his existence with, and if he felt that his ideas were being taken seriously. Fluttershy is his first step toward getting the first two, but he's going to need more than one friend to connect with and share his interests with, and at least one of them needs to be someone he can fully intellectually engage with, someone he can actually have a philosophical argument with. At one point Celestia was that for him, but due to circumstances beyond either of their control, they were separated for some time, and he totally lost his shit while she was gone -- he had no ponies or any sentient beings he cared about or who cared about him, no one understood him or even tried, everyone around him reacted with fear or disgust to both his efforts to change the patterns of reality and his efforts to change the patterns of society... so he became obsessive about breaking and changing *everything*, all the time, in as many different ways as he could, and by the time Celestia found him again he was too far gone to come back. (They sometimes describe it as "he went insane", but it wasn't mwahahaha mine is an evil laugh insane... it was more like severe OCD combined with social alienation, and he's always been somewhat manic but he probably went into full-blown clinical mania at some point.)
So I think he could live more or less happily in the real world, or as happily as anyone who thinks stirring up trouble is fun and who has revolutionary ideas that most people can't even comprehend would ever be able to, but he needs more, and he's not patient. (And I can't blame him; he's been waiting a *long* time.) Eventually, he needs a wider range of friends than just Fluttershy, and probably a position of advisory power (no one should ever give him real political power, and he doesn't even really want it, but if Celestia's smart, she'll co-opt him back into her stable society by giving him a formal high-ranking-but-not-in-chain-of-command advisory position in her government.) I see a number of potential directions he could get these things from, but he has to survive what he's going through first. :-)
3768850
On Discord having political power:
It's interesting that you should mention that. I have been thinking about the time that he ruled the world, and it's occurred to me that he was less a hands-on Evil Overlord than a super-powerful Psychopathic Manchild who played games at random and could not be stopped from doing so. This increases the story possibilities for stuff set in the Age of Discord, because it means that a lot of stuff still went on independent of him, with Discord being more a random force of nature than a strategically-thinking participant from the point of view of others.
3768923
Absolutely. When I get to it, I have a chapter I want to call "Anarchy, That I Run". I think he started out "ruling" by trying to destroy the very concept of political power, except the fact that he had the real power to warp reality and was using it to force ponies to do what he said kind of shot his ideology in the foot, and then at some point he lost interest in even pretending he was trying to run a government of any kind and just let ponies do whatever they wanted, except when he felt like making a rule (for example, in Discord in Hell he says that he used to throw ponies in jail for being stupid, but the jails were made of crackers so they could generally gnaw their way out. So he'd invent stupid, impractical laws that only he ever enforced, and he enforced them very erratically.) Nobody groaned under Discord's tyrannous hoof; it was more like he was so deliberately incompetent at running a government that he made it impossible for anyone else to keep a stable government running, so society descended into anarchy and stayed there (not the kind of anarchy that anarchists approve of, which is self-governing, but the kind of anarchy where usually the situation stablizes into warlords acquiring power and creating islands of semi-stability that they rule brutally, except that Discord would show up and turn the warlord's horn to cheese or make all the pegasus enforcers fly upside down, so in fact no one was ever able to create a stable power base anywhere. Which made it real easy for Celestia and Luna to take back control once they defeated him.)
I think Discord left democratic or semi-anarchic collectives alone unless they got too big. So there would have been villages all over the place where the people were more or less ruling themselves, fairly stably, but they'd have had to defend themselves from other villages or predators or criminals because there was no central government to enforce anything. And approximately half the time you could get what you needed if you begged Discord for it, so ponies didn't generally *starve*, but they couldn't grow crops worth a damn with the sun and the moon and the seasons being totally random, so if Discord decided that all you needed for good nutrition was pie, your entire town would probably be eating nothing but pie for half a year.
3768850
Very fascinating.
I tend to be wordy as well, and have to make a habit of trying to cut back. In general, I love dialog. I love reading it and I love writing it, whether I'm good at it or not.
I seriously think that even if you didn't edit any of their conversations for length, a little break now and then to show their physical reactions/actions might help without destroying the pacing, hopefully. The dialog provides enough tone to get the idea of how they feel and who is talking, but some narrative mention of their existence, beyond the said tag, will keep the 'talking head' syndrome at bay and break up the discussion just enough to keep eyes from glazing over. On the whole, it wasn't a huge issue for me, but it did affect me a bit and I could easily see others becoming impatient, though perhaps I'm only assuming things.
I think this might be a necessary tangent though. Plus, I think tweaking or adding a sentence or two might be enough to get that idea across without breaking the flow or adding too much to an already full narrative. I say that because I love Fluttershy and I love your portrayal of her here, but that part kind of startled me a bit. It has bearing and it feels right when you point that idea out to me, but as it is now, it can play into the cliche if it isn't examined a little closer.
This. All of this. (Sorry, the whole thing really, but I didn't want to quote absolutely everything.)
I agree a hundred percent! I think maybe what you could do is, during his discussion of patterns, try and suggest a few of the more revolutionary-minded ones. I may just need to go back and reread that section, so forgive me if it's there and I should, but I don't feel like doing that at the moment. Feel free to point out anything that I forgot and which applies.
One of the reasons that the patterns felt too abstract was because his examples focused too much on the non-essential possibilities. Having a few that are actually world-changing (as the point about treating all animals the same would do and why he likes the rain of light) and tying it to the pattern-breaking speaks volumes about him and how his actions and thoughts are not only very important to keep safe but to take seriously.
I think you did hint that his little expeditions into chaos with Fluttershy where enough to tide him over, but tying back into that and how he really wants to change the world at large for the greater good would make this downright amazing. He would still face opposition and the ponies aren't entirely wrong about disagreeing with him (grey scale of debate), but it adds whole levels to his character and to pony society in a way that makes me very, very happy.
Of course part of his reasoning is selfish, but that's how this sort of thing works. We want to change things for ourselves, as well as others. It would also explain how he's not really out to change all patterns purely for the sake of rearranging patterns and he can be happy with how a pattern is, at least for some time. For a capricious immortal that may vary, depending on what it is; I assume anything significant he'd leave alone for a lot longer than something as simple as what the grass tastes like.
...Now I want a scene with him and Fluttershy grazing on some delicious, altered grass. He might have some trouble chewing it, but he's chaos... he can alter his teeth or make it turned into a liquid in his mouth when he wants to swallow it or whatever.
Ahem, that tangent aside, this makes him quite easy to relate to. He's scattered but driven, and though he is very different from the ponies in many ways, there is a common ground that they, and the readers quite naturally, can comprehend. Plus, I've always felt the creative analogy (artist, sculptor, writer, dress-maker, anything) worked well for explaining some of his motives. Adding a truly revolutionary side ties the package together in a big, beautiful bow. I've seen a few other writers do it, I think, but it's a lot less common than it should be, and that makes me sad. (Hrmm, probably most of it is expressed as him presenting a living satire about society. I really need to read more fiction, but I'm sure it exists beyond what I've actually read so far. I want to think some descriptions in my 'read later' pile had hints of that.)
I do think he was a villain before, but that's only because he wasn't paying attention to the consequences or outright ignoring them, which is really the only reason the ponies hated him so much.
I'm pretty sure that's also why Pinkie wasn't the one to reform Discord. His actions struck close to home for her and she couldn't understand why he wasn't being conscientious, the way she was. I think she was trying to address that and shame him into understanding her mindset, but Fluttershy being kind about it was the one to get through to him, because she was able to look past her irritation and explain it better to him. Being the one who does take everyone else's feelings into account and knowing how it works is why. Pinkie recognizes this as well, hence her refusal to prank Fluttershy, but I don't think Pinkie can express it properly, because it's not something she has analyzed in the same depth. So Pinkie loved it when his chaos didn't seem to be hurting anyone (hence the gravy boat and the chocolate rain), but she promptly became upset and aligned herself with the perspective of her other friends when it did seem troubling. (Although I think she was using the whip cream as an excuse for why she couldn't condone his actions, because she didn't know how else to explain her opinion.)
Maybe I'm reading too much into that though.
3768923
Though it depends on the author's head canon, I think that's pretty accurate. I doubt that Discord was big on enforcing much of anything, other than his position and his own safety. We don't know exactly how he treated the ponies, but I'm betting that what he did after he was freed, the first time, is pretty much what he did before. The flashback with Celestia and Luna hints at much the same.
Discord's only crime was that anything he did to change reality had repercussions that he may not have been aware of or else he just wasn't interested in examining the consequences, since they so rarely affected him directly. Even a small change can make a huge difference, so every change he made was just going to make their lives harder in some way. He may have unintentionally made some things easier too, since I don't think his goal was to make anyone else suffer. Trying to bargain with him probably depended on what mood he was in and what he thought of their request, but I doubt that he intentionally did more than embarrassment and laughing at their expense. Mostly because he knew that they didn't accept him and he needed some sort of social interaction.
3768987
Indeed, indeed! I can believe that utterly! And I think that probably is how it panned out. I think that's especially intriguing that he was only concerned about someone trying to usurp him, because he was trying to instill anarchy overall. He just went about it wrong and kept them from forming what was necessary in that situation for them to carry on, since there needs to be some structure to their lives, even if his is capable of having none at all (it helps that he didn't view himself as having any dependents. It's the ties that bind which create structure, and without anyone to care about, he had none.)
On the whole, while it's really far more philosophical than I fully comprehend and there's no telling how accurate anything on wikipedia or even within philosophy itself is, I think Discord's rule was very much a case of imposed and fixed liminality. That's not to say his rule followed this idea exactly as presented or that he set out to do that. The concept resonates with me as appropriate because he was formerly a trickster who could not find a way to integrate himself into their society for various reasons beyond the outlining of the archetype mentioned here. (He is by necessity somewhat alien to pony-kind. I think part of that is his species and his capabilities, but even more of it inherently stems from his upbringing and his past, since he has proven that he can interact with them on a deeper level, through friendship.) Of course, his steps towards friendship are his steps away from the traditional trickster figure and his own liminal state. I would for that matter guess that being trapped in stone for a century didn't help in that regard, but trying to make him understand what he was missing certainly did help.
I also think the idea of him as offering charity at times is quite possible. I really think he may have grown to hate them for not accepting him or his ideals in any way, but I don't think he was outright malicious, unless it was clear that they were outright malicious towards him. And even then, I'm pretty sure he didn't act without proof. Discord has very little to fear, so his only concerns would be towards a genuine threat, such as the Elements of Harmony.
I'm curious, btw. I'm sure your opinion is presented within one of your fics or blog-posts somewhere, but how do you rationalize his lack of perception during the end of The Return of Harmony Part 2? His only reason for losing that fight was because he didn't recognize the threat that they had become again. Otherwise, he would have reacted differently, I think.
3770717
Yeah, this is a problem I have in general. I usually end up writing the dialogue and then going back through and trying to add physical actions, but it's hard for me, because most of the time I hear the story rather than seeing it. I have to work to picture what's going on.
I definitely do not like to play into cliches, so I'll look at it and see if there's somewhere I can insert that concept. :-)
I think he's kind of given up in despair about doing anything actually revolutionary anymore. He can snap his fingers and change the laws of physics, but he's learned the hard way over time that in order to change the laws of society, he needs to convince ponies that he's right, and he has never managed to successfully do so. (It probably does not help that the ponies who cared about him, considered him family, and were willing to listen to him without automatically trying to run away in terror or dismissing everything out of hand, were the ones who were most personally invested in the status quo. I have a line in Be Discreet where Celestia and her father are talking about Discord's revolutionary ideals, and Celestia remembers Discord arguing in favor of democracy, in a context where it's obvious she thinks the idea is totally ridiculous and would lead to anarchy. In fact Celestia's father out and out says that he's in favor of Celestia's relationship with Discord because the closer Discord's emotional ties to the ruling family are, the less likely he is to start a revolution and overthrow them all. :-)) He's bitter about what ponies have done and are doing to the world, but I don't think he believes he can change it anymore. This may change in the future, but he's been "reformed", accepted into pony society again in any sense at all, for too short a time for him to have started believing he might be able to have an influence this time.
That, and he genuinely does enjoy messing with heads. Which if he's decided to be a responsible member of society, basically just makes him a troll, but when he's decided that he's going to let absolute power corrupt him absolutely and not restrain his behavior for any reason other than he feels like it, he's quite capable of psychological sadism. I don't think he wants to cause permanent suffering (generally, he doesn't want to cause permanent anything) or physical pain, although he will do stuff to terrorize his enemies completely or destroy their resistance psychologically so that he doesn't actually have to harm them to stop them; but he was totally capable of mind-controlling sweet little doormats into (as he put it) "hilariously cruel jerks" and pompous twits into twitching bundles of inferiority because "when they wake up and realize what they've done, their reactions are just priceless". His personality alteration stunts were never permanent but if he thought it would be funny to make you think you were a tree, you'd probably be standing there with your hooves sticking out like branches for a day or two before you snapped out of it, and your family would probably be hysterical with worry for you by that time.
I don't like to whitewash the guy; based on what we saw in Return of Harmony, he'll commit random body alterations or mental alterations on ponies and non-ponies alike, he thinks upsetting ponies is hilarious, and the things he changes do not have to be for the better in any conceivable way. However, we have no evidence from Return of Harmony that any of those changes accomplished with magic would have been permanent, and the whole concept of "chaos" suggests they wouldn't have been (my theory is that the whole plot against the Elements was a plot against Twilight herself, that he didn't use magic to break her precisely *because* his magic isn't permanent, but turning her friends against her would break her somewhat fragile faith in friendship itself, possibly permanently, and by the time the other Elements recovered Twilight would have given up hope.) So he's a selfish jerk who likes to treat living things as action figures he can play with, and he's desperate for attention and he's learned that negative attention is the only kind he can get... but he's not "evil", per se. Quite capable of malice, but not driven by it. So yeah, he was pretty thoroughly a villain by the time Celestia and Luna took him down, but he was never irredeemable (and if Luna hadn't gone berserk herself, Celestia might have had the "let Discord out and reform him" idea centuries earlier; she probably didn't plan to seal him away for all eternity when she did it, but there would have been no way she could re-seal him if she let him loose after she lost her connection to the Elements.) He was mostly just totally selfish and inconsiderate, with a side order of liking to make ponies mad or upset and to stir up conflict.
I like that. I had planned to write a Pinkie and Discord thing for this universe because I need to set up everyone's relationships all over again; I did it in Next of Kin to Chaos already, but Discord as Q is not quite the same character, and events in Princess Twilight Sparkle don't tie out with what I've been setting up in that arc, so I have to retrace that ground for *this* universe. Kind of annoying but necessary. :-) So this is helpful.
Very interesting passage. I would not personally have identified figures such as Stalin or Hitler as tricksters, and I think the writer of that article has a very negative view of the trickster archetype, but it's true that tricksters are outsiders, that they live in the liminal state, and that it's to their interest to expand that state to others because it's where their comfort zone is, and all of that applies very well to Discord. He's consciously *identified* himself with the concept of disharmony, after all. I think Discord will always be Trickster but that that is not always as negative as the article presents; Coyote generally acted more toward the benefit of humanity than against it, Anansi and Loki had wives and kids, and Prometheus is so closely linked to humanity's benefactor he's not even identified as a trickster half the time, but he stole fire from the gods to give it to humans and tricked the gods into taking really crappy sacrifices from humans so humans could keep the good stuff, which totally puts him in the category of Trickster. He screwed over his own kind repeatedly for the benefit of humanity, and got punished for it very harshly. Discord wants to be Prometheus but I think in the end the best he's gonna do is Coyote.
I haven't worked that out for this universe, as to whether it's any different than in Next of Kin to Chaos. In that one, Discord says the problem was that he was so convinced that his plan would work, it blinded him to the fact that it obviously hadn't because he simply wasn't paying any attention. This is consistent with him being Q, since in that series, Discord's antics in modern Equestria all take place in roughly the same time period as the first three seasons to TNG, where, among other things, Q puts a half-Betazoid and an android on trial for the crimes of humanity, and then sets up a test for humanity that the half-Betazoid is instrumental to solving, using her non-human powers. So Q is canonically being really, really careless during this period of his life, and setting his life in Equestria post-Luna's return during this time period makes it make sense that he underestimated Twilight, he didn't understand how mortals think or how hard she would fight for her friendships, and he was just plain being careless.
In this universe... I don't yet know. Lack of understanding ponies and the concept of friendship plays into it, certainly. (Discord is sincere when he says he's never had a friend. Celestia and Luna were more like family -- he was in love with Celestia from the day they met, but they were kids so it was non-sexual and she got him more or less adopted by her dad -- and he has literally never been close to any pony aside from his quasi-family and his teacher. The idea that you meet someone new, as an adult, and they become someone you care about intensely, but not someone you live with and join your life to as if they are family, is completely alien to him, but he wants it now that he thinks he can have it.) He's not detail-oriented, and I think his own preconceptions of what's supposed to happen can get in his way as much as anyone else's can, but I'd like to not just retread "wasn't paying attention" completely; the fact that the two versions of Discord have different backstories and different motivations means that I'm trying to not just apply the same reasons why they did canonical things to both of them indiscriminately. (Though I have a hard time imagining *any* version of Discord not perceiving "Keep Calm and Flutter On" as a psychological battle with Fluttershy that he lost, except that he won by losing.)
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Ahh, I see. I wish I had a helpful suggestion, but I'm afraid I don't. When in doubt, I tend to add things like idle gestures and facial expressions, though I can't say if that's a good thing. I can't always visualize exactly how they look at certain points, and I fear my additions end up a bit generic at times, which might not be any better than none at all.
Fair enough. I think if you could add a hint of all that into this story, it'd really sing!
Preach it, Sistah!
I totally, absolutely, utterly agree with you.
My only problem is that people seem to correlate villain with irredeemable, even if the character is redeemable, so I kind of hate to use the term in discussions about them. At the same time, if I don't use the word villain, people tend to think I'm cutting him too much slack and that I don't understand how awful he was. Of course, I probably do that to a certain extent, I am biased towards Discord, but I realize the ponies had a very good reason for hating him and putting a stop to what he was doing in the past and the present. And while I'm willing to explain it, to understand his POV better, I'm not trying to excuse his actions.
And then there are people who don't seem to understand why anyone is sympathetic towards him, but there's just no pleasing those folks.
Well, it took me by surprise when Pinkie Pie reacted the way that she did in Keep Calm and Princess Twilight, but after mulling it over for a long while, that's what I came up with and I think it makes sense. There's also some possibility that she holds grudges, but I don't think so. I think it's more likely that Pinkie recognized the similarities that she shared with Discord. Sometimes coming from a similar perspective, but responding differently, can be what infuriates us the most. If they can see eye to eye though, I'm sure they'd be good friends too!
Sorry, I don't mean to keep agreeing, but you're right. Many of these tricksters had their shortcomings and their cruel moments, but they had their good moments too. Loki was probably the most sympathetic of the Norse pantheon, in some instances. He was forced to help out in one instance where the gods were flat out jerks, such as tricking the dude who was building their walls, just so they didn't have to pay him, but Loki wasn't always nice either. Baldur, for instance, though really, it's like begging for trouble when mom asks most of the world not to harm you...
Prometheus was probably the nicest one, though I really can't remember anything especially terrible that Anansi did, other than trying to keep all the wisdom of the world and getting called out by his son for being dumb about it.
I think we love trickster characters, but they do get a bad rep, in part because they tend to be so mutable and aren't always the hero. Um, but now I'm rambling, sorry...
I think being overconfident is a valid train of thought though. And it seems to be how the writers handle most of the villains in the show.
I think maybe your idea about his actual plan being to break Twilight, and her friends being unable to bring her around when their discordance wore off, is probably instrumental. The idea that his spell wasn't permanent is about the only thing that can explain why he didn't pay close attention to the fact they weren't grey any more. I think after that, it's less paying attention to details and sheer overconfidence at work. He assumed his ploy had succeeded, based on prior evidence, and he took too long to recognize his mistake.
It's about all I can think of myself. Careless is a good one, but yeah, it's probably better not to repeat the idea exactly at least.
Without the potential for impermanence, which I'll be honest and admit I hadn't considered before (it makes sense, given chaos, but since we never got the chance to see it happen, it never occurred to me), I don't think his downfall made much sense. I just sort of accepted it and moved on, but it was one of those things that kind of bothered me before.
Which is why I asked. Your head canons have mostly aligned with my own, so I was hoping to pick your brain a little.
I think that's because it's an undeniable truth. There is no other way to view that.
Whew! Sorry these are so long.
I feel dumb. Something I forgot to mention in my first comment... it's really more of a nitpick, but it suddenly came back to me.
I think it's better to substitute Neighponese with Eastern, since Neighpon is only one country, but that style of dragon is spread across a much wider area. It's also the most obvious opposite, which is the entire purpose of that paragraph (to illustrate the differences.)
This...is one of the most amazing fics with Discord and 'Shy I have read to date!!! Excellent! If you continued it in a sequel or another one-shot it would be a blast!
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There is actually a sequel. Unfortunately it's an entirely different tone, because shortly after this encounter with Fluttershy, Discord went to another universe to wreak entertaining havoc where he wouldn't upset Fluttershy by doing it, picked the wrong one, and was taken captive by some very, very dark alternate versions of the Element Bearers. Elements of Opposition deals with Fluttershy, Twilight, etc, going to the alternate universe to rescue Discord from their own evil counterparts. So while this story is rather light and fluffy, the continuation... is not.
4126153 I do not really care if it is dark. (I have actually started reading it already
) Thanks for letting me know anyway.
Please, update it soon then!!!
I cannot wait for our heroes to face their counterparts!!! 
You should update that dark story soon! I cannot wait to see how they will save him!!!
Welcome back.
Oh dear.... I might have to read the rest... ...with time I don't really have
I find your take on Discord very fascinating. You put great detail into so much, and it really makes you think. I really like when Discord can go from a goofball to being serious, and him and Fluttershy are really great here. They talk about so much, and it's nice to see how much their friendship has grown where they can do just that. Also the crush is an adorable touch, just seeing her realize it.
Honestly, I had an idea pop into my head once upon a time about Discord being worried that all of what has happened is nothing more than a manifestation he created while still encased in stone. Because Discord is still the spirit of chaos, so his powers going beyond physical and becoming mental images for his sake isn't an impossible idea. Not to mention how a thousand years in stone can break someone, which is something I feel isn't discussed too often. While he does come across as... "crazy" only in the sense that he's just being Discord, I still don't think people realize how badly effected Discord could actually be. He said it himself, he could hear everything, meaning he lived life for a thousand years in absolute silence and stillness. Surely that's bound to break someone in some way.
Also, just about everything Discord discusses in regards to chaos, especially like this line:
It really puts his thoughts into a frightening perspective, as well as somewhat understandable. He has unlimited powers and a sort of desire he has to perform with them. Not even a desire, more like a need. However, the very idea of change is terrifying to ponies, and they'll dismiss it as something that will create trouble. They didn't have the experience of light rain to see that chaos isn't just trouble or destruction, but also beauty and art.
Without any means to properly release his magic, he's fighting back these temptations that turned him to stone in the first place. And without the ponies respecting chaos, and him not trusting ponies, it's a process that could require slow baby steps where Discord needs to take the first step (well, we're gonna be a while...). He's essentially trapped in a small box - cardboard, always a dull brown cardboard box - struggling and straining for a bit of freedom, but he doesn't know how to open the box without someone shutting it closed again.
If I had a tiny issue to point it, it's just that the way Fluttershy spoke sometimes just didn't flow like one would imagine. She says "umm," and a lot, and while we know she's shy (surprise!), it just felt off. When she was supposed to tell him something straightforward, you'd see this once or twice while she spoke. Then again, it's a fairly small problem, so I'm fine with it.
Great work! Glad I finally decided to take a look at this.
I hope you don't mind; I added this to the text corpus for a story semantics extraction project I am doing (on MLP scripts), because it had some interesting grammar and exposition about mental states. The line starting "She hadn't said "stop" earlier" failed to validate as narration because the 'stop' from "Oh, oh dear, they're tickling me! Oh, stop!" was still in scope. I had to change it to "Oh, oh dear, they're tickling me! Oh, it's too much!". Not a problem for human readers to be sure, but I thought it might amuse you.
...Dang. This is Good Omens. Flutters is Aziraphale and Discord is her Crowley. How did I not see this before? The dynamic's close to perfect! (More levity here, though, obviously, and of course there are differences, but it's so close!)
I know a lot of people are saying a whole lot, but all I have to say is that this is so beautiful.
You want magical girls? Try this.
Celestia: lulu I'm going for a walk be back later
Luna: Kay
* Celestia goes outside and slapped by fish rain *
Celestia: DISCORD
This is the most insightful story about Discord I've come across in a long while!
So many parts of it are in my headcanon too and the rest are very inspiring for my Fluttercord WIP stories!
Thanks for a great story! five out of five
Poor Fluttershy, if only she knew that Discord doesn't make the first move because he expects any pony that loves him to make it clear that they like him...
Mmm…my heart needed warming today. And this does it like not quite anything else.
Wow, that was just so beautiful!
I really do love the way you explain things, I understand everything and then I understand the characters. It's amazing. Yet another masterpiece by you now added to my favourites 
.
I've finally embarked on this 12k+ work fanfic-- admittedly, the word count intimidated me, because although I love reading for extended periods of time, I couldn't make said extended time as of late.
No regrets! ...except for a rushed homework assignment
The way you described the rain of light is indeed very powerful imagery, and I always enjoy your maturer perception on the characters (or at least, mature in comparison to what the show would allow
). I definitely see a "revolutionary Discord" here, what with the way he describes ponies being unchanging, and to be honest, I personally relate to his frustration.
With that said, if you don't mind some critique, one thing that particularly stood out to me (and still does, after reading again) is Fluttershy's voice. I like how you made her try to explain things to Discord as though he was a child (because, admittedly, he can be immature and childlike with empathy), but the way you did so felt off somehow? In the show, whenever Fluttershy does this, especially to Discord, she tends to use "How would you feel if..." phrases. However, in this story, I saw more of a step-by-step description, such as when you had her tell Discord why she thought ponies would find his magic strange. I personally just don't see that as language Fluttershy uses.
There is also the repeated use of "um..." by her when she was scolding Discord at the beginning, because while she certainly is a demure-mannered pony, Fluttershy doesn't get hesitant when she's upset. If this was a Season 1 Fluttershy, I could see her hesitance in being direct, but this is Season 4, right? Fluttershy has grown much more bold since then.
I am aware this is an older fic though, and you've probably become much more aware of this, alongside developing your other writing skills. Still, it doesn't hurt to look back at old work, no?
wow...to be honest, i expected this to be far darker for some reason, considering elements of opposition.
Sweet alicorns, the comparison Discord makes to those plants trapped under the surface and himself. The sheer joy of him here. Fluttershy getting to see all this. This is a glorious story and I need more of your writing.
Oh, and Discord’s rant and his longing. That chaos is art to him. It’s so beautiful and moving. I love how Fluttershy digs for the things about him that she likes, and I truly hope I see the day where she tells him how she feels in your stories. Gah, I have to read everything. All of it!! ALL THE READING.
I'm going to risk heading into that territory.
Taking a rest on a super high speed nimbus? Okay...
For some reason this made me feel...a little sad inside.
I take after Discord's philosophy, but I also dislike things changing around me that I don't initiate myself.
Things would be so much easier if the abnormal didn't have to hide in the shadows, becoming dark and twisted mocheries of the bewitching light and entropic order.
This was really intelligently and thoughtfully written. I especially loved how you made Discord's apparent nonsense in the vine episode actually make sense, and you appropriately crafted Fluttershy's confronting him on the matter so it really felt like her, and not just an audience member trying to fulfill a wish that she'd call him out on it.
The subtle tweak of using a question mark instead of a period when Flutters was voicing hard facts was especially genius, as it went a long way in helping mimic her tone while also getting across her thoughts.
But really, all throughout you gave a lot of depth to how the characters see things. Although, I think Fluttershy canon-wise has less extreme views on animals rights, as evidenced by that brief part in the show when she brought some ferrets a pair of dead fish. 🐠
camo.fimfiction.net/HNqG1kp0LtPHSytAGYcs64c0RMn2_8zq6UQPwtaQLfk?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fmlp%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fca%2FFeeding_the_ferrets_S1E07.png
But Discord's light rain and the lush jungle-like growth it caused was described so nicely, and the idea was just so creative - I especially appreciated the portions where Fluttershy noticed how the rain felt when it touched her. 🌦
Something very novel about this fic was the dialogue where Discord explained that ponies' aversion to his chaos would be like ponies being averse to Rarity's fashions just because they were unfamiliar, and how he could purposefully scare them with chaos, but doing something nice was hard because they so often feared the new... It really gives us insight into how he sees the world and shines some light on why it is he can be so annoying at times - perhaps secretly resenting everypony because he feels they don't accept him or his chaos as something good.
I'm not really a Fluttercord shipper, but the subtle one-sided secret crush the pegasus struggled with here with was sort of adorable, really. This was a very intricate piece, and with a lot of surprising and clever insights into the pegasus and draconequus's minds and hearts. Really great grammar too. Glad I gave this a read. Thank you for sharing.
I really love stories that bring up Discords time of being imprisoned. We know he's aware in canon due to keep calm and flutter on so stories that actually address it tickle my fancy. Him pointing out that he's never quiet sure he's free and Flutters realizing just how utterly damaged his mind is along with just how dangerous that is...