Chapter 69: Ultimatum
“The birthplace of the Elements? But when we first faced Discord, you told me you and Luna found them.”
“We did.” Celestia stepped behind the black table, so Twilight could see what she was talking about. “We found them. Here. but we were lead here. Why else would two teenage unicorns delve to the center of their planet? A voice without words called to us. At first we thought it was just the panicked imagination trying to find hope in a world without any, but when Luna and I eventually confessed we'd been hearing this call, we found the other had as well. We kept it secret from our parents, who were more worried about our lives than they were their own. Remember, this was in the height of Discord's reign; he had overthrown the kingdom, killed or exiled all leadership, and continually disrupted every aspect of life. He was still in grief, we would later learn, over the passing of his wife.”
“I didn't fully realize it at the time, but my over-reaction was a not-so-subtle cry for help,” Discord elaborated. “I needed the world to change, one way or another, so what had happened to me wouldn't ever happen again. I knew that those who overthrew me would have to be very powerful, clever, and determined. Beyond that, they would have to be most powerful as individuals; any group that tried to rise against me fell apart due to infighting, disagreements, or because they were too weak-willed to counter my world-wide aura of chaos.”
Celestia nodded. “So when Luna and I banded together, it could only be the two of us to stand against him. We fought our way through the forests, whose inhabitants had been twisted by chaos, and we grew stronger and more confident along the way. Eventually we reached the mountain that would later become Canterlot, where the signal was strongest, but it wasn't the source. We found a hidden cave lined with ancient drawings depicting, surprisingly, the two of us performing some strange ritual. After discussing it, we realized the only way to move forward was to try what the pictures were showing, despite the inherent danger. When we had finished the spell, the cave morphed around us, sealing us inside. We felt it begin to move, and eventually, it opened up once more, the stone moving like clay. We stepped out into this very chamber, where we found this table. On the table lay six smaller, golden orbs, which circled a larger orb that was otherwise identical. I think you know where I'm going with this.”
Twilight stopped struggling from her bonds for a moment. “Thael was here?”
Celestia shook her head. “Yes, and not quite. His appearance in the library those two weeks ago was the first time I saw his physical body. But he was definitely involved. When we touched the orbs, our minds were filled with a vision that instructed us to take the six smaller orbs, but to leave the last. When we had done as instructed, the vision asked us a question; 'Were we displeased with how the world was being run?'
“'Of course,' we replied. We had seen the agony of Discord's rule firsthoof.
“'Would you be willing to change it if given the chance?' it asked.
“'Certainly, if we had the strength to.' What it told us next is the reason why I am now here.
“'You have been given the strength you seek,' it said. 'But it comes with a terrible price. The remaining orb is the key to this planet's continued existence. If the other six are rejoined, now that you have taken them, then the world will burn. Remember: you can always end a life, but that should only encourage you all the more to protect it. By wielding the power of both creation and destruction, you hold the power of Judgment. Use the six to return harmony to the world. Or use the one to end it all.' The vision faded after that, and no amount of begging brought the voice back. And so we were left in the room with the world's fate literally in our hooves. We couldn't end it there, nor did we have any reason to, so we left the way we'd come, taking the six orbs with us. And this stayed here.” Celestia swept a hoof over the table, where the last golden orb lay, waiting.
Twilight narrowed her eyes. “You intend to end the world?”
“It's my last resort, Twilight. If there were another way, I would take it. But the trouble is, Twilight, I represent Mercy. It's not just an ideal; it's literally a need for me. Just as Justice is for Luna. Just as Vengeance is for Seren. If we do not fulfill our attribute, we are weakened like a starving child. Twilight, if I just step aside and let Seren win, knowing how much pain he'll cause, I might die. And while I would give my life if I needed to, it would be a meaningless death. Even tempered by Justice, Vengeance is little more than a guided fire. You can't completely control it, and you can only hope it won't turn on you once it's run it course. Civilization would collapse, hundreds of thousands would die for their petty mistakes, and hundreds of thousands more would suffer in fear and hopelessness. Forcing people to choose what's right doesn't mean that their actions are right, nor does it mean that the puppeteer is helping them grow.”
“But is killing the entire planet helping them either? Celestia, listen to reason! I'm ashamed of how many times I've had to say that.” Twilight growled at her teacher. “There's always another way. There are more options than 'blow up the planet' and 'let Seren enslave everybody.' You were the one who always told me to wake up and think. Use your head!”
“Don't you think I have been? Twilight, it'll turn out one of only a few ways. I get killed. Seren wins, and perhaps Luna can keep him in line. Probably not, though, if our last meeting was anything to go by. I live, but I've killed Seren and possibly Luna, again. That only delays the inevitable. I return to my system of prosperity, but it'll only last a thousand years, and then we're back where we started, but this time, I don't have you or any of the others around the next time.”
“Well, what about talking your way out of it?”
“Twilight, your heart is in the right place, but do you understand what Seren is? He's the definition of Vengeance. I'm not sure what you saw that made you begin to sympathize with him, but that's a different pony than he is now. Becoming an Alicorn is more than just growing wings and having a greater capacity for magic. It's about changing your very nature.”
“And as Mercy, it should be easy for you to see that you're not being merciful.”
“Tell me, Twilight, how preventing millions from thousands of years of suffering isn't merciful?”
“Because you're preventing them from any potential for good. How is that any better than Seren and Luna's plan to forcibly keep people in line?”
Celestia trembled. “I don't know, Twilight. I'm just afraid. Afraid that if I try to reason with him, he'll only use it to harm others. To harm you.”
“I promise, I can take care of myself. Now, step away from the altar.”
Celestia laughed quietly. “I don't have the Elements with me, remember? Your friends still have them. Unless they come here, I can't do anything.”
Twilight breathed a sign of relief. “That's good. We can work with this.”
“Well, I don't have them yet.”
Twilight groaned. Always another issue. “What are you going to do, Celestia?”
“I have the power to call them here. If not your friends, then the essence of the Elements they carry. I haven't done it yet, out of faith. Yes, Twilight, I want to find another route. But if I have to, I'll take this one. I'm sorry to do this, Twilight, but here's my ultimatum: If Seren so much as steps hoof in Reality, Reality will end. I'm already aware he's killed Luna. I cannot allow such a dangerous foe into our world. At least the others had a hope of redemption. He doesn't.”
“Do you?”
Celestia's horn flared, but the retribution Twilight was expecting didn't come.Twilight clambered to her hooves, released from the trap. She looking over her mentor carefully, unsure of her intentions. Celestia was hunched a bit, not standing quite as tall as she might in a more public atmosphere. Her mane was messy and her coat was matted. But despite her disheveled appearance, her eyes remained alert and full of intelligence, darting between Twilight and Discord, rather than holding Twilight's accusing gaze like she usually did.
“What about Discord?” Twilight asked.
“I have to keep him here, but I'll allow him to channel his powers to transport you, if he'd like.”
“Oh, sure,” Discord said. “It's not like I want to be anywhere else right now.”
With a flash, and before she could protest, Twilight disappeared, leaving behind a small trail of glittering dust. Celestia turned to the captured Draconequus. “What could you possibly hope to gain from this, Discord? Why would you bring her here?”
“It's wasn't for me, if you can believe it.”
“No? Who then?”
“For you.” He stared at her for a few seconds before continuing to speak. “When I felt your presence down here, I knew that you were at the end of your rope, and I thought I'd stop by before you hung yourself with it.”
Celestia scoffed quietly. “You can't ever not interfere, can you?”
“If I have an opinion on something, it's because I've made an effort to understand it. And if I don't speak up, how can I expect the world to change for the better?”
“But what happens when your opinions are wrong? When you make mistakes?”
“Then you end up with my rule and all the pain that came from it. Or we have you with your hoof over the button that will end it all. Yeah. We'll make mistakes. And the more aggressive we've been in the past, and the more powerful we've become, well, the more people we'll hurt. Because they expect you to be flawless, since you have a direction, since you're actually progressing. When in reality, so many who seem to know what they're doing are really just pushing blindly forward, doing the best they can. And if you look at history closely enough, you'll see how many of their lives end up in flames. It's true, you know, 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall.' You and I, Celestia? We're big. We see that since others stand back, too afraid to take charge of their lives, that we have to step up to the plate. Because if it isn't us, it'll be someone else, and we'll no longer be in charge of our destiny. Failure isn't a bad thing. Mistakes are not the end, unless we choose it to be. The moment we recognize we have made a mistake, we have to turn away from that course.”
“But what of no-win scenarios? Can you see a way out of this, Discord?” Celestia's eyes were pleading.
Discord smoothed his mane. “Heh, it'll take a miracle, I'll admit. But you've got to keep trying.”
“And what of my parents?”
Discord's hand froze, before dropping to his side. “I'm sorry about that. I always will be.”
“They did nothing but try, and what good did it do them? You killed them, Discord. Innocents. They weren't the first, but they were the last. Luna and I saw to that.”
“And I shall always regret it. But now I have to do what I can to make it right. That's why I'm trying to help you.”
Celestia turned away, looking back at the last orb. “Do you know why I ascended to Mercy, Discord?”
“You never told me the story, no.”
“It was actually because of their death.”
The chamber was silent until Celestia continued. “When we returned with the Elements, we'd found your handiwork. My parents were still alive, you know. But just barely. I think they were only holding on to see us. They had only moments to live, and what do they say to us? 'Don't let the hate continue.' It's funny, what strength such few words can have. Luna took that as a call to arms, that the only way to fix the world was to put an end to the problems. I recognized the more subtle meaning. To retaliate against anger with anger will destroy both parties.”
“So what now? Have you turned from the lesson?”
Celestia laughed quietly. “No, Discord. I have no anger in my heart. I have nothing, now; where once burned the passion of Mercy and the hope for a better life, I find a void. Nobody loves me, not anymore. My subjects will soon know the truth, one way or the other. Twilight has begun to see me for what I am. And Luna has sided with my greatest enemy. I do this out of cold logic, an acceptance that things well never get permanently better. Even if I somehow find a way out of this pit, someday along the line, I'll fall into another, perhaps even deeper one.”
“Don't ever say that.”
Celestia narrowed her brows. “Pardon?”
“Don't ever say that nobody loves you. Celestia, even if Luna is seething with rage, even as Twilight's heart aches with betrayal, even as your subjects turn away and the light of your sun fades, do not think for a moment that you are unloved. The betrayal hurts because they love you, and because you love them. Twilight and Luna want what's best for you. The hopes and prayers of your subjects, at least the wiser ones, will follow you until the grave. And, Celestia, I love you.” Discord stepped forward, crossing the border of his runic prison without any apparent effort. Celestia began to back up as Discord dashed forward, only to be caught up in his bear-hug. “You're a good pony, even if you forget that sometimes. And I'm sorry it took me so long to fully recognize it.”
“You... you broke out of the trap!” Celestia stammered, completely flustered.
“Bah. Do you really think you can trap Chaos? I was free the whole time.” He dropped her slowly, letting her searching legs find the ground once again.
“Discord, sometimes you really frustrate me.”
“Lighten up you old hag. You always take things so seriously. Sure, it's the end of the world and all of that, but come on, where's the simple joy of being alive?”
Celestia shook her head. “I lost it a long time ago.”
Discord grinned. “Well then, it sounds like it's time for a change. And change happens to be my specialty.”
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Platonic or romantic love, Discord?
3014481 There is a difference!?
Not with Discord around! 
3014661
So you're saying that Discord is gonna go smoochy-smoochy regardless?
3014778 He'll be smooch smooch one moment, and be completely platonic the rest. even if he stops Celestia, It's gonna be one heck of a ride.
Incomplete gods... why do so many universes think having gods that only manifest one fragment of a complete personality is a good idea?
Fractured personalities are by their very nature unstable and unsustainable.
Both Mercy and Justice must be tempered with Wisdom, while Vengeance really has no sensible place at all to a higher mind.
If I had to venture a postulate to solve this mess, it would seem that they need not just to merge their fractured, incomplete universes, but also their fragmented selves into a single being with complete personality, rather than a monotone attribute no living creature could ever hope to successfully maintain. How can they ever hope to be perfect when they are individually only a little piece of what makes a mind whole?
That's Logic, a little attribute I took into myself long ago.
That's why I became GOD OF EVERYTHING!! It's all good!
3014948
So an on-off relationship, is it?
3015153 You know of pagan religions? The polytheistic ones, with many gods.
Well, there is a theory about such religions, that actually, it was always only one god, and all the other gods were just his(her?) manifestations when he needed to fulfill a specific role. Just like a human can be a fisherman when he needs fish, a carpenter, when he must work with wood, or a hunter, when he has to hunt, all the while staying the same person.
Also, Discord killed Celly's parents, but now he's making her feel better and realizes that he loves her... Huh. My reaction borders between 'eeehhh?' and 'dawwww'.
3016013 That whole Discord thing is just one of the things that has kept me from favoriting this. Some of the ideas really needed more forethought, because they don't quite come together well in the end.
That's why I'm taking SOOOOOO much time outlining my longer story ideas and ensuring that everything makes flawless internally-logical sense.
I aim for zero plot holes and contrivances.
dawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
discord you softie~ 
I found this lovely tale last night, and pulled an all-nighter reading it. Just finished and I have just one thought: I need MORE!
3017630
Heh, well, if nothing else, your comments have entertained me. If your stories prove as humorous, you deserve a spot in the featured section of the site.
3016013
3015153
Hush you're giving important details away before the big reveal. Good job though.3021299
And more you shall soon find. It's a weekend, I don't have work tonight... time to write!
3022407 Again, Logic.
If a story is written in a sensible way, then usually I can figure out what's going on.
In a given situation with given facts, there are only so many paths it can reasonably take.
The ones that annoy me end with god-moding the crap out of either villain or hero. One story that recently pissed me off gave Discord a victory by having him a) create a multi-decade long Hyper Xanatos Gambit, b) had him attain a super mystical god slaying weapon c) give him a technique to prevent him from being killed in any way d) made all the heroes incredibly short-sighted (idiot balling) e) then had him call forth a Lovecraftian abomination.
I don't think the writer missed even a single god-mode Stu cliche there. Never mind that as the spirit of chaos, his mind should be incapable of concentrating on ANYTHING long enough to pull a complex plan together.
But anyway, with your story, it's hard to put my finger on exactly what bugs me. I'd have to re-read it to nail it down, since so much time has elapsed and I'm forgetting too much of what happened earlier (and I don't have that kind of time). It's just not clicking in my head.
3023316
One thing, just because he's Chaos doesn't mean he can't plan. There is a reason the phrase 'Orderly Chaos' exists. By your reasoning, Discord shouldn't even be able to hold a physical form for more than a micro second. Order and Chaos are two sides of the same coin, hence they can take advantage of one another if they so choose. Discord is merely the more willing of the parties when it comes to taking advantage of the other side in the case of Equestria.
3042972 Except neutrons.
They have no opposite.
Seriously, I'm getting tired of this silly notion of cosmic balance.
It's false. If all forces were perfectly in balance, the universe would never have come into being.
Entropy is the primary driver of the energy gradient.
3043105 Yes, but his plans in some of these stories span hundreds of years of time and succeed only by having both him and the targets of his plan acting in an entirely predictable manner.
Orderly chaos can only cover for so much before it breaches the bounds of acceptability and leaves Discord as nothing but a typical god-level diabolical scheming supervillain (Darkseid).
The true form of Majin Buu was far more like a being of pure chaos: completely irrational, uncontrollable, thoroughly impulsive, pure wanton destruction on a whim.
3044766
I never said they were in perfect balance, merely that they have opposites.
3044781
Actually, if you look at it one way, Order is Chaos and Chaos is Order. Does a set of all sets include itself?
Further, 'bounds of acceptability'? If you want to talk about Chaos and pure randomness, then wouldn't the most random thing Chaos could do was be orderly?
3044850
Ok, go take a logic class. If you should pass it, you will no longer contemplate such silly things.
That nonsense about being so chaotic that it becomes order is preposterous. It would only apply in the most fleeting terms if that 'order' lasted for a microsecond before decaying to randomness again.
It's akin to trying to say that the universe can suddenly spit out a fully-functional starship Enterprise from a planetary nebula.
When the 'chaotic' character acts in an 'orderly' manner for too long it DISPROVES his chaotic nature.
3045412
They have logic classes?!
Maybe I can go there and meet some Vulcans!
Beyond that, you're not looking at the big picture.
Pre Big Bang: All was in a state of almost complete Order
Immediately following the Big Bang: Everything was in a state of almost perfect Chaos
A few thousand years later: Order has begun to rise from the Chaos, creating stars and planets and such.
Trillions of years later: Chaos has overtaken Order and the Universe suffers from Entropy.
Finally, there is nothing left for Chaos to effect, thus Chaos has created the perfect Order.
3045485 You obviously haven't read up on the discovery of the Higgs boson. The measured qualities of the Higgs indicate that our universe is inherently unstable and will be destroyed in a billion billion years or so. That's actually reassuring to me. I found both the Big Chill and the Big Rip notion unsatisfactory, as both ignored causation issues and the nature of voids. The Big Chill had the problem of both the causality infinity of the 'cosmic egg' suddenly deciding to arbitrarily blow up, and then a second infinity of endless expansion. The Big Rip was interesting for one reason: the tearing of spacetime could have been the possible trigger for further Big Bangs.
Nor the recent theories on Big Bang formation, which posit the critical features of eternal inflation; not of one universe, but infinite universes.
You see, due to quantum effects, the 'Cosmic Egg' universe had as much a chance of vanishing as it had for expansion while in its hyper-compressed 'single point' state. Therefore, you end up with the problems surrounding infinities which generate irreducible paradoxes... the hallmarks of a flawed theory.
My recent "Discover" magazine included an article by a brilliant Russian physicist whose work focuses on these issues.
In it, chaos and order really have little to do with anything. The multiverse is a self-perpetuating system of bubbles that arise in the void as the expanding bubble universes drift apart. Said bubbles begin to expand almost the instant they form due to gravity becoming a powerfully repulsive force at near-infinite energy density. Thus, the problem of the indefinitely existing universal seed is solved.
However, then we're still left with the incomprehensible properties of the inter-universal void and the fundamental qualities that give rise to the bubbles...
But anyway, at that level, order and chaos don't matter at all any longer. It all boils down to cosmic laws whose statutes we are only barely beginning to read into.
I strongly suspect that many of the answers lie with the two very strange phenomena: quantum entanglement and dark energy. They represent some intrinsic principles of the fabric of the universe we do not understand. We know they exist (quantum entanglement, especially, is unambiguously both measurable and applicable), but have no good theoretical principles as to why or how they exist.
3045888
Thus rendering this whole thing moot and Discord being able to continue on his merry way.
But personally I'm a fan of the idea that the 'Big Bang' was actually a Black Hole's singularity that over the course of trillions and trillions of years reached critical mass and exploded. This caused space/time to warp so violently that it created a new 'bubble' for the universe.
3046260 I'm afraid that idea is not possible. Black holes eventually clear out their region and stop growing. Even if they continued to grow, there is no 'critical mass' for gravitational compression.
That also leaves the problem of where the black hole and the mass to feed the black hole came from. You end up with an initiation paradox.
3046779
If Im not mistaken, black holes may do just that, but they also "dissolve" leaving behind Hawking radiation, meaning eventually even the biggest ones can just "evaporate" away, leaving a soup of chaotic energy.
3046779
I never said I was a supporter of it, just a fan. I merely find it poetic. *Insert cheesy rant about the shortness of life here*
3046260
3046779
Ah, so that's why my inbox had a sudden influx of messages. You two are still at it? It's refreshing to see people who genuinely care about and research their opinions. I might be able to clear up a little bit of my thoughts on Discord. They're certainly not the law, just my interpretation.
There's Chaos, and then there's BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE chaos. I have written, and picture, Discord as Chaos. If we are accepting a universe without a divine creator, all of the existence we know, even the computers we type on and the show we're discussing, was born from Chaos. Much like The Dimension Traveler was saying, Order is just a form of Chaos, or rather, they're both parts of the same coin. Chaos is beautiful because after all of the changes it causes, there can still be something that seems rather intentional. And that thing might be torn away at the very next moment, but while it was there, it makes you stop and think.
Now, even in the canon universe, Discord is fairly orderly. Sure, he screws up Equestria, but he intentionally sets up a game, with rules, wherein he causes all to fall in ways he predicted at the forefront. (Excluding Fluttershy, but how does he fix that slip-up? He effectively changes the rules. That's Chaos working with order.) While he's silly, he's extremely intelligent. He seems lazy, but he's got goals, and he meets them. I've purposely written Discord to be a man with a plan, but the kind who doesn't care if something comes up to change it. Not everything has to be according to keikaku. He'll just find a new way to complete the same goal. So does Discord represent /pure/ Chaos? Unrestrained, ever-changing, and completely unpredictable? No. But I'd argue he doesn't in the show either. In my story, does Celestia represent /pure/ Mercy? No. She'd recognize that sometimes you have to let people take the fall. Is Luna Justice? Heh, well, she certainly has messed up a few times herself. Only a truly perfect pony could be purely Justice. But then you'd have Javert, somebody who would realize they had to end their own lives once they screwed up, or else everything they've lived for would be meaningless. It's why he turns himself in to Monsieur L'Mayor when he genuinely thinks he got his identity wrong.
Is Seren wholly Vengeance? No. How could anybody wield the refined form of that burning poison and live? Each of them is 'corrupted' from their mark in some form or another, but they're trying to become better ponies. Just as Celestia needs to recognize that sometimes the greater mercy is letting others learn from their mistakes, Luna needs to realize that sometimes the greater justice is to let them make them in the first place. If Seren wants a place in this world, he has to recognize that Vengeance can't be a childish reaction, but rather, measured retribution for the sake of change for the better.
Perhaps, Alondro, the reason you take issue with my portrayal of Discord is because I make him too "human", if you will, rather than unrelenting force? The kind of chaotic villain you described reminded me of Aku of Samurai Jack. He'll vaporize things just for fun, break rules, can't sit still for even a minute, and hardly thinks anything through. While it works amazingly well in animation, I just don't see it working too well in a long story (or even for long in real life) before deteriorating into what 4chan likes to call "so randumb xDDDD!!1"
3046901
I think there's a reason Discord has Q's voice, beyond John De Lancie being awesome. Q (Before they screwed him up) was not unlike a Lovecraft creation; he viewed humans as little more than ants, had god-like powers, and through his interactions with Picard began to understand and even sympathize with humanity.
Discord follows a startlingly similar character arc and the similarities don't end there. After all, both Q and Discord were branded 'beings of Chaos' and 'Tricksters' when we're first introduced to them, yet when we look under the surface, both Discord and Q are shown capable of being rational and orderly.
Finally, Q took the appearance of a Human whilst amongst humans. Discord appears as a draconequus amongst ponies. Yet both could chose whatever form they wished. I believe this speaks volumes about how similar they are even as they are different. Q choses a Human form because it is surreal to see a 'human' do what Q does on a regular basis. Discord choses his draconequus form for the exact same reason: because it's surreal.
When it boils down to it, you could have a villain who is merely destruction and chaos, but they rarely become anything special (Props to Kefka for succeeding) because they miss what Chaos truly is. Both Discord and Q are so much more, not for forsaking any kind of Order, but because they embrace the Order that both spawned and will return to Chaos. They both understand that without Order, there would be nothing to make the Chaos stand out. Their ability to plan makes any Chaos much more profound because it has a mind behind it.
Discord is the avatar of Chaos, not destruction.
3046901 There's also Mr. Myxlplyx, whom I believe is about the closest one can get to a chaotic entity with a plan and rules, a functional mind.
His rules are silly, seemingly arbitrary, and he loses focus rather quickly much of the time. But he also abides by his rules.
It's all about how cleverly one can keep the madness moving in relation to the 'sane' characters.
Judging by the fact that Discord doesn't have an eagle head, that means he had his head cut off at some point, and only his torso is from his original body. How did he retain his mind, since the head contains the brain?
5438148 They have souls, in their universe, the brain isn't what makes you you, but rather the soul or core personality.
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