As the title so neatly says is this the thread for PH talk and discussions.

Now just because we are opening this can of worms yet again should people not expect that they can roam free and begin the mud fights and name calling just like that. I Will personally go through this thread now and again, and will encourage other admins to do so as well, so do know that people are watching. So try to be a bit more civil and serious than what people normally are when it comes to PH, okay?

3532530 What the hell even is PH?

3532657

Fallout: Equestria - Project Horizons. It's a fanfic that is quite... long. Quite heavy on the grimdark and despair.

Dealer has the Ace of Spades.
Would you like to buy an Insurance?
...
(Let's see how many of you get that pointless reference.)
Edit: Darn it, Seal. I was talking about Blackjack. How do you not see that?

3533478 3533474
I'd ask if we could please keep this civil as opposed to causing another cluster fck (especially causing one just to do it), but I'm not sure how possible that would be...

Just do EVERYONE a favor and keep the fighting about the book and sustain from attacking one side or the other.

Please, for the mare of the Ministry of Peace?

And one of Stable-Tec's founders.

3533532
Well that's kinda why this thread was made, I'm just asking you don't go out of your way to piss them off.

I mean most have redeeming quality's, I mean come on everyone can agree that Boo's kinda adorable.

Even if I have no clue what purpose she has, haven't read that far and probably won't.

Though that may be because the most interaction I've had is from her Tumblr.

3533634
That's all that I ask, I'd rather not see another thing like last time...

Never forget.

3533646
No the thread that caused all this. Just trust me if you weren't there it was BAD!

3533663
Not that huge a fan, it's readable but just not as amazing as some make it out to be.

I'd go into it, but I'm on my Kindle because ProtonJon Live Stream maybe later.

But feel free to start the fun without me.

So, Hoofington small talk; How's that weather?

3534250
Really... Just really... *me points at the cloud cover* Bad pony bad!

3534287 But what about the day of sunshine & rainbows! Even though hoofington is short a functioning tower. I wonder why?

Also, you should probably add a generic spoiler warning to the OP, for the one person whose heart is shattered from learning spoilers. Which there are a lot of.

3534414
Eh. If a person can´t take spoilers should said person not seek forums for said spoilerific subjects out. Beside that is it not so much about what point you get to that are important, but the journey to it that counts.

Am I the only one who has this love/hate relationship with PH?

I love the story because it's decently written, long enough to keep me occupied, and the characters are interesting, but I hate it at times because there's still no sign of an end to the story, the author tried too hard to make the story grim dark, and the main character makes me want to flip my desk through the wall (my desk is built into the wall).

3535021
Nope, early chapters amazing, then it started going darker and edgier just to be darker and edgier, BlackJack started having random mood swings (looking at you fight with Gem and Mini ), and overall just kinda had a drop in quality IMO.

I haven't read past chapter 17 because I really haven't wanted to, honestly her companions are more entertaining and even they aren't enough for me.

Also the whole dying four times thing kinda put me off it, I don't care what excuse you have if you're revived that many times then that's just not cool.

Once maybe, and that's a BIG maybe, but four times, yeah no.

3535095 3535021 I personally dislike Blackjack and pretty much the entirety of Project Horizons, believe it or not. Blackjack isn't a bad character, and PH isn't a bad story, but...

Well, I lost it for Blackjack somewhere around the point she was raped and then died, and the story as a whole around the time Goldenblood's true influence became apparent. But I enjoy parts of it, such as the point where Morning Glory had her cutie mark branded off simply because of how much the procedure seemed like how they'd do it.

And now for some humor that got no appreciation in the thread that shall not be named, of which I will post once more in the hopes someone will humor me and at the very least mention it:

Morning Glory: Hey, Blackjack!
Blackjack: What's the story, Morning Glory?

shut up im funny

3536812

I reeaaaaaallly liked Morning Glory. She was just so interesting and much more dynamic of a character than the others.

3537006 I constantly berate her character, but at the end of the day it's because I'd hate her if she was in a Fallout game. In a story, however, she works just fine, so I'm going to make a change right now and say that Glory is best PH-pone.

But honestly, in a Fallout game there'd probably be an option to accuse her of murdering the rest of the Volunteer Corps based on circumstances, maybe one for saving her for enough money (or god forbid just selling her into slavery after you got her out), and probably just saving her for the sake of saving her. I turn into a cap hoarding apathetic monster when making decisions in Fallout New Vegas when I play nowadays, so her outlook would not be good.

plez notice my joke senpai

3536812
It's not that it's bad, I can understand why people like it it's just not for me. I personally enjoy other stories more, especially because like you said BlackJack, her companion are just better, and when the companions are better then the main that's not a good thing.

It's her mood swings (again Gem and Mini, that just irritates me to no end), the fact that she apparently can't die, and despite everything she's given (infinite life, and unique bucking weapon under Celestia's golden orb) she just mopes.

Overall it just tries to hard to be dark, but there's no real threat because she has a way out no matter what.

But if you enjoy it more power to you, just not my thing, and probably never will be.

3537033 If you go into it expecting an attempted grimdark story, it's a lot better than if you go in expecting a Fallout: Equestria side story.

3537561 Which is where my major issue with it lies. The addition of Fallout Equestria to the title.

Everything 3537033 said is true for me too, the over done grimdark for the sake of being full of pain and suffering and just endless amounts of darkness are what makes it a story I just will never like or understand how someone could but, hey whatever. Like Background Pony.

BUT, then you add in just how bad it fails as a FOE story.. and that's where the rage and utter loathing comes into play. All the changes, alteration, retcons or just out right ignoring and rewriting of canon as well as missing the entire point of the original.... That is what pisses me off about it, as well as some personal issues with the author and his views on both FOE itself, and storytelling in general.

3537998 .....................................

yes because, massive government conspiracies to keep wars going and breed all sorts of horrible projects, main characters getting maimed, beaten to death, gangraped and constancy trying to kill themselves... gassing an entire population..... Date raping the brother of one of your best friends, then not telling said friend or brother that you got knocked up by it and abandoning the kid, knowing how much family means to them...And all the other endless bout of pain, suffering and darkness.. those are just comedic GOLD!

3538003

Can't be as bad as P21.

So, can someone tell me if there's an easy way to holler for a mod? Rather then keeping up a debate once someone needs to descended to pathetic personal insults.

3538088

eh. well, I've read up to the chapter forties.

3538100
PMs is always the shortest way to the admins.

3538059
And dude... Really? Keep it civil or not at all. Your fist line could earn you a smaller ban from the forum in the future you know

3538200
Sorry but how do you know that it was him that down voted what you said?

Beside that, saying that PH is a comedy is maybe not the most... well agreeable thing, both the people for and against not liking the idea of the story being called a comedy.

3538395 It could be considered a comedy if it makes you laugh, which in my case I laugh a lot because I'm a terrible person who likes seeing characters I dislike (read: everyone in the story who isn't a bat pony because bat ponies are the best) in pain.

3538458

I liked watching P21 suffer .... so ... yeah. I always have this smug smile when I see character I don't like get hurt.

Well, I know my own curiosity will cause me to read at least a little of this. All of it, I doubt that happening anytime soon.

3545074 Why read something you know you aren't going to finish?

3545128 Not finishing things is somewhat of a pastime of mine.

3538088

...Seriously? Seriously? Haha, wow... That's the last thing I'd have expected her to ever do, at least not so cold turkey as it sounds. I ALMOST want to read on to see for myself... Kind of. Almost.

My opinion on PH, too, is not the highest. I was able to enjoy it well enough for a while, but the further I went the more difficult it became to bear Blackjack's stupidity. Finally, once she left the one place with Stygius and says something on the one-way radio in chapter 44, I dropped it. At that point I just couldn't help but be convinced that Blackjack is stupid for the sake of being stupid, and that she's a device used to bring drama for the sake of drama. But then, the story has plenty of drama for the sake of drama, and it definitely tries too hard to be dark and depressing (to refer to a post I read in the What Not to Do thread, the dark happenings in FoE all felt like they had purpose. In PH it feels like excessive dark for the sake of being dark and edgy). I also care very little for how much it modifies FoE canon, changing the meaning of numerous significant events therein.

Then a couple months ago I picked it back up and dropped it again in the middle of the next chapter.

I don't hate the story, but with my grievances and the enormous length I just am not very interested anymore. Due to encouragement by my friend/editor I may read slightly further to the Hightower stuff, but besides that I think I'm done for good. It still has characters and other elements I could enjoy, but it's just too much for me.

That said, from a plot standpoint, I would say it's competently written. Definitely enough so that I don't blame it for being popular. It's just not my cup of tea.

Oh hi there!

I have been into the FoE mini-fandom for a couple months now. And this is the most popular sidestory about it.
So considering this little thing is over a million words long, and still counting, I wanted to ask:
Is it worth the effort? I mean if I am gonna commit to read something larger than the bibble i want to know if at least is gonna be an enjoyable ride.
(Or at very least, know if it woulb be better to wait until vacations to pick it up)

That being said, not trying to cause a fight, this fic seems to be a sensitive topic for some reason, I am honestly asking.
Thanks in advance

3562944 Short answer. NO!

And hardly the 'most popular' by any means. Most well know yes, but there are several stores that get just as much praise, but not even a fraction of the hate. Pinkeyes, Heroes, Murky Number 7. Hooves of Fate. (okay okay so that last one isn't uber-popular, but it SHOULD be damn it.)

If you liked the original, stay far away from PH. It mangles everything that was great about the original, completely misses the entire point of it, and tries to rewrite the original to make it's own twisted version of things the 'true' story, while cramming it's own characters into every little crack it can in the original story to have THEM be the ones really behind everything.

If you don't like endless slogs of pain, misery, suffering, graphic maiming rape. and pain and death. Never ending darkness.. all for the simple sake of being dark and painful and featuring suffering, with no point beyond Darkness in and of itself. Stay WAY the hell away.

Somber loves to just cram as much suffering and angst and pain and just overbearing darkness into his story as he can. While making his main character a whiny, angsty wreck of a Mary Sue who can not die. No seriously she's died and come back to life several times already. Inserts the most horrible scene to force both the characters and the readers through, for no reason other then he thinks things HAVE to be as dark as possible, just for it's own sake.

So no, stay way the hell away from it and read something GOOD.

And the 'some reason' is pretty much the above massive alterations to the original, trying to rewrite the original so that it's own twisted view of everything being dark and brooding and full of conspiracies and everypony was a selfish asshole etc... and totally ruining the entire meaning and beauty of the original with his hamfisted "no MY story is the REAL version! Things have to be dark and painful and rape has to happen to EVERYONE because it's the only way to have character development....." Bleh.....

3562944

IMO, if you really want to, just read Volume 1. But don't go beyond that. Consider it's ending canon to the PH storyline and consider it as the final ending-ending and say you've finished it.

If you want to read a good story, just browse around here. Or, if you don't feel like digging, head over to the Fallout: Equestria wiki and read Heroes or Pink Eyes. You can find the major stories here at the top under the Major Stories section.

Many of the more well received, not as well known stories can be found in the FO:E wiki's Featured Stories list, like Starlight, Murky Number Seven, Rolling Bones, etc. You can find them here.

That's the old list, though. It's been updated recently, as of Aug. 6th with newer featured titles, which you can find here. Not sure how well known those are, but hey, they're on the list. Those authors must be doing something right.

3562944
In the end only you can decide if it's worth your time, some love it and will defend it to their death, others hate it and want it to die in a fire.

In the end you need to decide for yourself, personally I'm not a fan but I've explained that so many times in the past it's not even funny so... Yeah.

Check out the first few chapters, if you like it read it, if you don't then leave it. That's the best advice I can give.

Only you can decide if it's worth your time in the end though.

3562944
What the G-Man said: only you can decide whether you like a story or not, given you and Seraphem or others aren't the same person. It's like reading reviews for a controversial game. Some people give it a 0-10 out of 100 because they like another art style, another type of gameplay or world, other voices. But in the end, it's you who have to like the gameplay/story, noone else can or should say how you should feel about a story.
I'm not a fan and not a hater of PH, I accept it as a piece of fanwork just like any other fanfiction (that includes the original FoE; yes, I think they're both factions. The one isn't the Bible and the other one no piece of the Satanic Scriptures).

Long story short: Read it for yourself, don't let the government others decide what's worth your time. The world doesn't end tonight (I know that because.) and neither next week so you have plenty of time left in your life to read this story, you won't miss any opportunity of becoming rich and famous because of that.

3563780 Yes because, most sitcoms are filled with death, rape, maiming, rape, despair, suicide, pain, suffering, rape, mass murder, child killing, and then some more rape.

3563830 Hy lets have some wacky hijinks! Oh wait, now it's time to watch those wacky characters get beaten, maimed, raped, abused and talk about how bad they want to kill themselves. Enough of that, now for more wacky stuff!

Yeah, such a great story.

I never thought I would actually say this - like in: for real - but I have to agree with Seal. Not in what he exactly says but what he means:
Everyone has different standards on the matter of what makes a story enjoyable. The novels/stories/short stories/whatever I had to read for my final exams taken as an example. Apparently the people in the government responsible for making us read them thought they were good and I myself thought alike, but every other classmate hated the stories, said they were boring and stupid and the characters weren't enjoyable and the pacing was horrible and the wrong people died and so on.

Just because a group of people doesn't like a story, it doesn't mean the stories bad. In my opinion, a story is bad when it's unpleasant to read. E.g when grammar or spelling are wrong, when it's not paced well or when it isn't formatted well. The content is another matter.
A fanfiction story is art and who are we to decide if art is "good" or "bad".

It's like a painting. I personally can't handle the thought that some people spend millions of dollars/pounds/euros to buy a piece of paper with a few splashes of paint, but apparently those people see something in this. They like it and who am I to tell them what they like is bad? Or that a fox in the forest could draw something better. That's the point: better. Different people find different things good.

So if people want to read about a really dark pony world - even if it's just dark to be dark - nobody who doesn't like can or should tell them not to. Because some people like "sitcoms [are] filled with death, rape, maiming, rape, despair, suicide, pain, suffering, rape, mass murder, child killing, and then some more rape." Some people like Clopfics. Some people like reading about Rainbow Dash with broken wings. And some like to read about read about a pony heroine overcoming a nuclear wasteland's threads and vices, that had claimed so many overs. But some people don't like happy endings or stories with hope in it, take the SoIaF as an example. People are dying all the time, murder and rape on a daily basis, but people like it.

We once had more threads in which the matter of PH being bad were discussed and there was no success of either side in what felt like 1000 comments. It's just arguing for the sake of arguing.
So instead of arguing if and how terrible PH is, we could go back - or start - talking about what happens in the story. (Instead of just bringing up chapter 34? or what was it? again and again. There are around 56 more chapters in which stuff happens)

Long story short: different people like different things. And noone has ever been successful in persuading another human being to dislike a piece of art they liked before. Never. Accepting another persons opinion- especially in a harmless matter like fanfiction - is called tolerance. And what's the motto of MLP. No, it's not "Blood and Murder!"

Somehow I feel as if I'm posting this for the third or fourth time...

3565147 Yes art is subjective. And if you can, somehow, like PH, or Background Pony, or Game of Thrones, go right ahead. M issues isn't with PH, as it's own story of.. all that.... uggghhhhh. It's that it does that, while taking another story that I LOVE, and bending it over backward and doing.. well what it does to all its characters.

If Somber didn't insist on making his story the 'true' version of events, didn't connect his story so utterly with an existing one, while ripping apart everything that made the original good, defiling it, I wouldn't give a fuck. THAT is what makes me loathe PH. Not that I think it's 'bad'. Those aspects just make it a story I'd never enjoy. It's what it does to the story it claims to be made in honor of. What it foes to the original story, how badly it mutilates it, all for its own glory.

3565190
But is the original FoE somehow worse because PH exists? There were conspiracy novels made out of stuff that was written in the Bible, but since it's no written within the Bible/FoE the original matter isn't changed. It's like saying a comment would change the message given by a Shakespeare play. Or that people who recycle the plot of Romeo and Juliette or some ancient greek/roman myths somehow inflict damage to those pieces of literature/narration.

When I discuss the matter of how free will without hope and faith is only half the matter in my FoE sidestory, it surely misses the point of the original FoE, which basically says that ponies can choose their own fate. But is that bad? It's another aspect of the world of FoE, just as a region filled with raping, cannibalistic ponies and how ponies survive and keep their equinity is another matter that can be discussed by a story. There are different aspects of the FoE world and if we as sidestory authors wouldn't use those different angles and aspects, we would have around 500 exact copies of the original FoE on this side. And who would want to read that? If there's nothing new to add, what's the point of sidefics? Writing the same story with a different setting?

As long as Somber doesn't declare his PH to be canon for FoE or hacks his way into the original document and changes words or events (because that would actually do damage to the original), his fanfiction has every right to exist, just as any other on the internet or whatever medium people use to write and store FoE sidefics.

I someone doesn't like PH, then he or she shouldn't accept it as a piece of the FoE world, because our minds are capable of doing that, but acknowledge it as a story some people could like. In the end, we're no hivemind in which only one consensus can exist, everyone of us has his or her own headcanon when it comes to FoE. And while some take only the original and some take all the 500+ sidestories in their's, it's everyone's free choice to do so.

Again: I don't see how Somber's interpretation of the FoE world, which he then made into a story, damages or affects the original FoE. If people don't like it it's not canon for them, if the do it can be.
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not a fanatic fan of PH, but I don't loath it either. I'm just trying to say that arguing about the same topic again and again won't change anything. The only thing that will happen i sanger and hate spreading in this group. And neither of us wants that, do we?

3565431 There is exploring other aspects of the world, there is expanding on the original, on ideas, on taking on things the original didn't explore.

Then there is just out right defiling it, going against everything it stood for, actively changing it to fit your view, Directly altering the very facts of the story. Or the meaning of those facts. Tearing apart the foundations of what made the original great and rebuilding you own twisted version on top of them. All while claiming how much you care for and respect the original work.

Or that people who recycle the plot of Romeo and Juliette or some ancient greek/roman myths somehow inflict damage to those pieces of literature/narration.

There is retelling, making your own version. Your own take, the same basic story, without own spin. but that is NOT what Somber did. He set his story IN the existing world, Made it part of that story, then started to rip the existing story apart, alter it to suit what he needed. Not say "This is my version of a Post-apocalyptic Waste" but, took someone elses, and while claiming how much they respect that work, completely altered it. That isn't retelling, that is retconing.

hacks his way into the original document and changes words or events (because that would actually do damage to the original)

No that wouldn't, well not to that degree. If for no other reason the there are so many version, digital and physical it would be meaningless. But regardless, it still wouldn't in and of itself do more damage. The book, the text, that is not the story. It is just the means of physically expressing the story. Stories, are more then words on page, more then some book. They exist beyond that, and those books, tales, movies, all of it, are simply ways of conveying the larger essence that is the story itself.

Stories are important. People think that stories are shaped by people. In fact, it's the other way round. Stories... have evolved... The strongest have survived, and they have grown fat... Stories etch grooves deep enough for people to follow... A thousand wolves have eaten grandmother, a thousand princesses have been kissed... Stories don't care who takes part in them. All that matters is that the story gets told, that the story repeats.

THAT is what Somber and PH are attacking, not the book, not the physical shell of the story, but it's essence, the reality of the story. Trying to alter it, retcon it. Cram his own version of it into place.

just as any other on the internet or whatever medium people use to write and store FoE sidefics.

And any of them that do that, FOE or not, that take someone elses story, not the idea of the story, not another version of the story, but the story itself. And then try to change it, to alter it to their needs, and in ways that are fully counter to everything great about the story in the first place, would be just as horrendous.

I don't see how Somber's interpretation of the FoE world, which he then made into a story, damages or affects the original FoE.

He choose to link his story to the original, to build his on the foundation the original gave to be part of the same story. Not another version of it, but the SAM story, the SAME world, part of the same essence of that story. not the books, but the story inside the book, the story the book was merely a way to convey. And then twists it, alters it.

3565531
I can kind of see a little of what you're saying. I think. Its a tad on the metaphysical side, really. If I'm reading this right you're saying a story exists not as merely the medium through which it is conveyed, but as the collective consciousness and thought patterns of those who consume that medium and think about the story in terms of its 'reality'. And Somber's story, by being as well known as it is, basically... infects that collective consciousness. Your anger stems not only from disliking the story, but from the notion that its presence actually alters the way other people perceive the original, as they think of PH and FoE, in their own headcannon realities, as being part of the same universe.

Or something like that.

I'll admit I don't share any of your anger at PH. There are things about the story I don't like, but then there are things I didn't like about FoE either, despite the long lasting positive impression its left on me. I think I tend to just love the freedom of random creative process that fanfiction is too much to care who retcons what for their fic. I don't think Somber has ever actually claimed that PH is somehow a more true or canon replacement for FoE. That's physically impossible anyway. Also, I don't think KKat herself cares. The whole reason she firmly declared that FoE was not canon with any future side stories was to ensure that people could be free to write whatever the heck they wanted without having to worry about being in canon with the original.

But, hey, I can respect your clear passion for your point of view. PH is always going to be a polarizing story, even if it hadn't been connected to FoE. I liked it for a long time and only around the late 50s in chapters did I sort of lose interest, and still intend to finish it when Somber actually finishes it; whenever that is.

3565641 Pretty much that.

3563040 3563127 3563715 3563343
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I expected much less "elaborated" answers.

So people dislike it because it bends FoE canon for its own sinister ends. Gotta keep that in mind if i decide to read it.

Anyhow, thanks again,

3565821

Seraphem, Tetragrammaton, and G-man64 do not simply give "simple" answers.

3565821
Always glad to assist the community. (I use that emoticon way to much...)

3565940
I could give a simple answer... If I wanted I mean...

No I couldn't.

Aw well, that's for another time, just gotta help the community as much as I can.