Maybe he still feels that Lucifer can still be redeemed, or maybe cause it isn't fate to happen until the end of days?

4719268 Satan is just the adversary. Wouldn't that make humans the Satan to God?

Because god needs a scapegoat.

4719300 not sure..I'm too busy watching Game Theory to think

4719294 There must be a balance, that, and there are those on Earth wh try and steer mortals away from the influence of demons

4719300

4719318

IMHO?

To give us a choice.

Accept my answer or don't, I don't care.

4719345 Well, the adversary and God had a wager for Job. Lucy believed Job would fall into sin. He lost everything which God disagreed.

4719268 Perhaps, because he still holds out hope, that deep within Satan resides the heart of Lucifier before his fall.

4719268 If you read the Bible, God is friends with Satan. He even sends him on missions and stuff. The reason why He doesn't kill him is because they're buddies.

Have you considered going to a priest with this question? Since it's their job to answer these kind of questions?

4719278 Lucifer (Morning Star) made his choice a long time ago, before God created the earth and the world we live on. There is no redemption for Satan (the Adversary), who will be thrown into a bottomless pit with his false prophet and fallen angels.

God Gave humans free will (the ability to choose right from wrong) and we chose poorly. God made a way out of this by sending his Son to die for our sins in our place. (John 3: 16).

Tell me, are you a good person? Well, have you ever lied, or stolen anything, or committed adultery (lusting after someone of the opposite sex in your mind and your heart counts as being an adulterer, according to Christ), or even used the name of the Lord as a swear word? Well, no one is perfect. That is why Jesus came to save us from our sinful lives and give us a right heart.

It's like you standing before a righteous judge who finds you guilty, and is ready to sentence you to jail. But, wait, someone shows up and offers to pay your bail/fine, and the judge is satisfied with this new revelation! The judge sets you free, with the warning to go sin no more.
That's what Jesus did for us.

"If any man is born again, he is a new creature; the old life has passed away."

Find a Bible-based church and walk with wise counsel. Join a Bible study and renew your minds daily,

4719268
The Church teaches that, literally, "God is love". God will therefore, by His very nature, never destroy Satan or any other person. Instead, He loves them eternally, which ultimately is the greatest pain of Satan and his followers-- their greatest pain is that they are, at their core, beings created to be good. Thus, when they deny that God-given nature of being good, they enact a self-torture of sorts. God, himself, is constantly offering Satan forgiveness and would welcome His angel back, though Satan will never do this, as denial has become a part of Satan and thus to surrender himself back to God would be denying his very person.

It's a rather complex subject, so if you wish me to clarify further, I can.

Basically, God does not destroy Satan because He loves him, even though he sins-- much in the same way God loves humanity, even though it sins.

^The above is the teaching of the Catholic Church and does not reflect my own views or opinions-- I have written this comment merely to enlighten and answer your question, not to present my own bias.^

Hope this helped!

That is all. Equestria is ours.

4719268 More like they are both of equal power. God is light and Satan is Dark, a battle that might just be destined to go on forever.

4719376

"God is love". God will therefore, by His very nature, never destroy Satan or any other person.

"Exodus 12:29
And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle."

Then of course there's the flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah.

4719394
Dem sinners were killed, not destroyed. They were basically delivered out of sin, not really 'destroyed' in the sense as the original question was posed. God killed those people righteously, the Church teaches, to deliver His people out of the bondage of evil. Destruction, in the true, Biblical sense, is removal from reality or ultimate restrictions on free will.

In short, those people were righteously killed by God to save his people from sin and bondage. They were not destroyed, merely accelerated to the next "level" of existence, which was an unfortunate consequence of God's saving grace (in those instances). So the Church teaches.

That is all. Equestria is ours.

population controlMaybe for balance, like yin yang.

4719345 Alright, well as God, he's supposed to represent the ultimate perfect being, right? Like, he's got bad, because he's done some bad stuff and, while Jesus was legit pure cinnamon roll, to good for this world, to pure, God ordered some shifty shit, but he also had a lot of good stuff happened through out history.

Duality in a single being. He grew out of some of it, but then we got his supposed rival, the Devil, who's pure evil, but that's not very challenging, is it? I mean, it's not so much an adversary because he doesn't really reflect God in any way.

But humanity? We got equal parts good and bad. Kind of like God early on. So, in that way, we make a better Satan, or adversary, than Satan himself.

I legit just bullshitted my way through this.

If you read the Book of Revelation. It says that at the battle of Armageddon, that Satan will be imprisoned for a thousand years. Then God will let Satan loose to deceive the world once more before killing him for good. Then setting up a New Heaven and a New Earth.

4719268
Cuz that'd be too easy since Satan is a little bitch and God likes to challenge himself.

4719268

Because then he would have nobody else to blame all the evil in the world on. And I'm not even talking about the evils committed by humans, but the ones that are out of our control. Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, plagues, famine, drought, and so on.

People try to justify God's inaction by claiming it is necessary to preserve our free will, but why does he continue to allow those horrible natural disasters to happen to people who have done nothing to deserve them?

4719554

because god doesn't exist.

4719372
Maybe he doesn't want the canned 'official' answer. He might want to learn what a typical layperson thinks and how they arrive at their conclusions.

4719554

Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, plagues, famine, drought, and so on.

Weak examples of evil, if you ask me.

Personally, I see it as God leaving humans to its own affairs. Why should he help us?

4719798

Why should he help us?

Because he said he would.

4719268 Satan is the one who keeps the evil in hell, God has use for him.

4719798 That's how I see it. God is a guide, but he will not cater to those who don't put forth physical effort. I only ever ask for his help when I'm unsure, concerned, or there's a problem that either complex or out of my control. God gave humanity the intellect and resources to survive. Somethings are still beyond are control, but one day we may be able to better predict earth quakes or create Shining Armor like shields to keep lava out of towns and villages.

This world was originally suppose to be a paradise until Adam and Eve chose to defy God when they had no reason too. So now we live in an imperfect world, but that doesn't mean the quest for good and happiness if futile. The cruel fact of life is that people are not born into equal circumstances. But even someone born with challenges can rise and leave a Mark on the world.

Slum Dog (wile a fictional) is a perfect example of a person defying the cards they have been giving and using there strengths to find happiness and right a wrong. A more recent example would be Straight out of Compton. Wile I have not seen the full movie, I've caught glimpses of it wile doing my "thereat checks" at my job. Wile the film deals with police brutality and rasim, its also a true rags to riches story just like The 4 Season's.

I believe in human strength and that faith in God can help a person overcome the harshness of reality. Even if he/she fails, they succeed, for you only ever lose when you give up.

4719268 I tried my best to avoid this thread but I can't for some reason. It is as if I was destined to respond to this the most stupid way possible. Since I can't quote where the text are taken from I would only be able to give more or less a broad answer to this thread and what I think about it.

Now for why God can't kill Satan... How do I put this... Okay, well although Satan is already damned to hell by his judgement he is still with purpose, in a way, as the tester of mankind. He is called the tempted in Matthew, the old serpent, an ancient dragon, and the great deceiver in the book of revelation, which pretty much tells what purpose he had, has, and will have for the rest of his days.

So with that... you could say that was what he was left with to do after God ultimately set him and his angels to their demise. With that said, he can't really be as we would say "simply destroyed" with that purpose.

4719554

Although answering this would really bring potentially a new topic. Here's something I learned over time from listening around. I got that the reason why there these natural disasters is that humans in more ways than not represent the entirety of the earth, that they connect with the earth on a not only physical level but on a mental and spiritual level. So if there is a lot of negative energy or as we Christians would say sin caused on this planet, the earth would respond to the dominant nature that it is exposed to. Thus negative producers negativity and positive positivity. You could take it or leave it. I'm not trying to disagree with anyone. I'm just simply saying what I heard over the years.

4719371 What a brilliant conclusion.

4719580

You're preaching to the choir, love.

4719798

Weak examples of evil, if you ask me.

That was very dismissive, and extremely disrespectful. I doubt that those who have been killed, or had their lives ruined, by natural disasters would appreciate that sentiment.

As an atheist, I don't harbor resentment towards nature for simply doing what it does. However, if you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, you have to reconcile that with the obvious apathy and incredible destructiveness of nature. If he truly cared about us, why would he have made the planet so volatile and dangerous, so that hundreds of millions of his own children would die because of it?

4719860

I only ever ask for his help when I'm unsure, concerned, or there's a problem that either complex or out of my control.

Oh, like a disease pandemic, or a terrible flood, or something along those lines? Are you seriously blaming those kinds of natural disasters on the actions of humanity? If it were really in our hands, all diseases would have been eradicated long ago, and natural disasters would be nothing but a spooky tale parents told to their kids at night to keep them in line.

God gave humanity the intellect and resources to survive.

But he also made the planet, and everything else on it. He could've easily made it a paradise, or at least done away with all the plagues and other horrible disasters. If this is some kind of test, it is an extremely sadistic and unnecessary one.

This world was originally suppose to be a paradise until Adam and Eve chose to defy God when they had no reason too.

Right, so the two original humans - created in God's image - defied him, primarily out of curiosity. But if they were curious, it stands to reason that God must have been as well, since as established they were made in his likeness. Given that, God must have been aware that their curiosity would lead them to defying his wishes, and punished them anyway for being as he made them.

That is not a reasonable thing to do. That is irrational and arbitrary, to punish something for being as you created it, and then sentencing it and all of its descendants through time to be constantly harrowed by an utterly unforgiving world. Even the worst fathers in history cannot compare to that obscene level of hypocrisy and cruelty.

The cruel fact of life is that people are not born into equal circumstances.

Don't fool yourself. There will always be fluctuations, but the inequality in the world today is almost entirely a product of deliberate human action, not some immutable law of nature. The wealthy and powerful rarely, if ever, prove willing to share their wealth and power with those less fortunate, and generally seek some form of domination over them instead. Income equality is as old as civilization, but it is not as old as humanity. Seeing it as an immovable object, instead of something that can be changed, removes the responsibility we have for dealing with it.

But even someone born with challenges can rise and leave a Mark on the world.

You seem to be forgetting that many of those who have risen from humble or relatively humble origins in the past have proven not to be ideal people in any sense of the word. Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Kim Il-Sung, John D. Rockefeller, and Oliver Cromwell, just to name a few.

I believe in human strength and that faith in God can help a person overcome the harshness of reality.

I agree on the former, to be certain. And if religious faith gives people the motivation they need to overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges and make the world a better place, then so be it. But do remember, that very same faith has also given others the motivation they need to do terrible, monstrous things that they would not have done otherwise. Religion is nothing if not a double-edged sword.

4719918

How do you enjoy anything in life?

4719867

I got that the reason why there these natural disasters is that humans in more ways than not represent the entirety of the earth, that they connect with the earth on a not only physical level but on a mental and spiritual level. So if there is a lot of negative energy or as we Christians would say sin caused on this planet, the earth would respond to the dominant nature that it is exposed to.

Wut. I mean, obviously humans are part of the overall system of the Earth - being made from it, and returning to it when we die - but there isn't any magic behind it. Humans certainly can cause or contribute to natural disasters, such as with the ever-present scourge of climate change or simply screwing with nature by building dams, draining lakes, etc. However, it's absurd to blame humanity for all disasters, especially since they were happening long before we really started to affect the world in any meaningful way.

Honestly, that really just strikes me as a convenient way to handwave the fact that a supposedly benevolent God allows humanity to be so frequently terrorized by events that are completely of our hands. Blaming disasters on the 'negative energy' of humans makes you sound like a crazed hippie.

4719933 ... You know, I did say you could take it or leave it and that that is what I heard over the years.

4719918 Pretty sure you meant to direct that at me.

That was very dismissive, and extremely disrespectful.

So what if it's a cold answer? Like you're a stranger to that kind of rebuttal. Pot calling the kettle black, Dude.

Aside from that, it's nature. Storms brew, tectonic plates shift, the Earth moves and needs an outlet. SCIENCE.

It could also be that your definition is not my definition of evil. Like the 'god must exist because god is perfect and an aspect of perfection is existence', the 'evil is unnecessary suffering' is dependent a bit of perspective.

Also, we kind of shot ourselves in the foot with global warming, just throwing that out there. Climate change is our fault, largely, so blaming the weather caused by that on God is kind of shifting responsibility.

However, if you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, you have to reconcile that with the obvious apathy and incredible destructiveness of nature.

Earth quakes are our problem. Tornadoes are also are problem. Disease is our problem and we learn from all these problems. I mean, people die from this shit and that's not a good thing, don't get me wrong, but, if you ask me?

The planet matches the temperament of it's guests just fine.

obvious apathy

If you saw the shit we did on a regular basis, wouldn't you stop caring?

4719929

Because for me, my enjoyment doesn't rest on refusing to open my eyes and recognize things for what they are. I am very critical and cynical when it comes to religion and faith, yes, but - and this may come as a surprise - religion is not the only thing in the world that has the potential to bring a person happiness.

So, while I don't have the light of Jesus or whatever to give me strength, I also don't bloody need it. I have family and friends, a pretty good conscience (or so says my conscience), video games, and my favored hobby of writing. Excepting some brief sad spells, I'm happy and content most of the time. The thing that drags me down the most isn't anything in my personal life, but the state of humanity and the world as a whole. I have a lot of empathy, and it pains me greatly when people hurt and kill each other for no good reason.

From where I am now, I can't actually influence change on any meaningful scale. I do hope some day to attain that kind of power, and do everything I can to make the world a better place, but for now there is little I can do except argue and debate. It helps to vent some of my frustration at being so powerless, and it also helps to codify my own beliefs, as personal beliefs can only truly evolve when confronted with challenges and alternative possibilities.

4719940

You know, I did say you could take it or leave it and that that is what I heard over the years.

I know, but I still felt that it deserved refuting. I'm not attacking you personally, mind you, just that particular idea.

4719952

Pretty sure you meant to direct that at me.

Yeah. Fixed.

So what if it's a cold answer? Like you're a stranger to that kind of rebuttal. Pot calling the kettle black, Dude.

I don't think I've ever dismissed something that is responsible for the vast majority of deaths in human history as being a 'weak kind of evil' before, so unless you can pull up something I said, I'm just going to assume you're talking out of your ass.

Also, we kind of shot ourselves in the foot with global warming, just throwing that out there. Climate change is our fault, largely, so blaming the weather caused by that on God is kind of shifting responsibility.

I agree with that, but as I said earlier, there have been these kinds of horrible natural disasters since long before we started to screw with the balance of the planet. If God really exists and is in control of everything, then he must have been controlling those disasters of old.

The planet matches the temperament of it's guests just fine.

Earth has shaped humanity just as much, if not more, than humanity has shaped Earth. If Earth was a bountiful paradise where nobody wanted for anything and there were no disasters or other problems to speak of, there never would've been a necessity for developing things like selfishness, aggressiveness, and the like.

If you saw the shit we did on a regular basis, wouldn't you stop caring?

No. Because I have seen it, and I still care, despite the anguish it brings me. If a lowly human can continue to care after seeing the absolute worst that humanity can offer, why can't God?

4719965

there never would've been a necessity for developing things like selfishness, aggressiveness, and the like.

No, then we'd be weak, pudgy and gross. There would be no challenge and, when a challenge came along, we wouldn't be up to the task to face it.

To a certain point, disasters are necessary to make sure humanity isn't weak and coddled.

No. Because I have seen it, and I still care, despite the anguish it brings me. If a lowly human can continue to care after seeing the absolute worst that humanity can offer, why can't God?

No, you're simply aware that it happened. You've read stories about it, but you've never seen it first hand. There's a very big difference between seeing something like genocide or rape or countless murders and learning that they happened.

That being said, maybe God just figured that it was best that he not interfere? Maybe, after every good and bad thing he did with and to us, he just decided that he'd stick things on a softer version of autopilot and let us sort it out for ourselves?

Maybe he's giving the reigns of humanities fate to humanity.

4719956

Because for me, my enjoyment doesn't rest on refusing to open my eyes and recognize things for what they are. I am very critical and cynical when it comes to religion and faith, yes, but - and this may come as a surprise - religion is not the only thing in the world that has the potential to bring a person happiness

Interesting that you say that, but apparently it isn't. From what I have been taught and have read in the bible there is no happiness outside the bible. There is, but no true happiness without God, because God is true joy and peace. Anything you do in this world without the acknowledgement of God or do without giving glory to God you would be doing it to the glory of Satan. If you don't want anymore explanation how so, I would understand.

4719956

It helps to vent some of my frustration at being so powerless, and it also helps to codify my own beliefs, as personal beliefs can only truly evolve when confronted with challenges and alternative possibilities.

I'd have to agree with you on that.

4719989

Anything you do in this world without the acknowledgement of God or do without giving glory to God you would be doing it to the glory of Satan.

What if you aren't doing it with the acknowledgement of Satan or God? Based on what you said, what if you were Satanist and didn't directly address anything you did to Satan? Would that be glorifying God as a result?

I would like you to elaborate on this. You have get the direct acknowledgement of God for absolutely anything you do, otherwise it would be in the glory of Satan? Doesn't, you know, the actual moral context of what you did determine who it's glorifying? You specifically have to address God? Why is that a factor?

4719989

From what I have taught and have read in the bible there is no happiness outside the bible.

You know, that's remarkably similar to what a lot of cult leaders say to their followers. I would advise against trusting anyone who tells you that following them is the only possible way to achieve happiness or success in life, because anyone who does so is inevitably lying and trying to manipulate you. There is no 'one way' to happiness, because all people are different and have different desires and hopes. No single conclusion could ever satisfy everyone.

Anything you do in this world without the acknowledgement of God or do without giving glory to God you would be doing it to the glory of Satan.

Even feeding the poor? Even donating blood and organs? Even sacrificing your life to save others? Are you really giving glory to Satan by those acts, simply because you don't recognize God? And what about terrible and evil actions, like genocide and rape, that you dedicate to the glory of God? Are those good and just based solely on that fact?

If so, I don't think I have any problems with Satan, because he sounds a hell of a lot more benevolent - not to mention morally consistent - than a being who destroys cities and annihilates worlds whenever he gets upset.

4719970

To a certain point, disasters are necessary to make sure humanity isn't weak and coddled.

No, challenges are necessary, but they do not need to come in the form of horrible plagues and disasters that kill thousands or millions of people. There are ways to challenge us without so much bloodshed, and an omniscient God should damn well know that.

No, you're simply aware that it happened. You've read stories about it, but you've never seen it first hand.

I know, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize strongly with those who are suffering from these tragedies. I don't need to experience something myself in order to know how awful and heart-rending it is. That's the whole point of empathy.

4720331 ...It's such a bad crime to make mistakes in the English language. However, what meant to say is that I have been taught these things. I hope never to teach in my life.

Anyways...

Even feeding the poor? Even donating blood and organs? Even sacrificing your life to save others? Are you really giving glory to Satan by those acts, simply because you don't recognize God? And what about terrible and evil actions, like genocide and rape, that you dedicate to the glory of God? Are those good and just based solely on that fact?

...I can't really answer those for you. I'm so well understood in that respect. What I gave you was more or less the surface to that idea.

You know, that's remarkably similar to what a lot of cult leaders say to their followers. I would advise against trusting anyone who tells you that following them is the only possible way to achieve happiness or success in life, because anyone who does so is inevitably lying and trying to manipulate you. There is no 'one way' to happiness, because all people are different and have different desires and hopes. No single conclusion could ever satisfy everyone.

All the bold parts are what I thought about. The question I have how would I know if they're not lying and manipulating me? Academics, Economics, and Science you could go back and prove the facts and whatnot but with the Bible where do you start?

4720298 They say doing it on your own or of yourself is doing things, fulfilling your own righteousness, which God says in the bible it is as filthy rags. And that only doing the righteous things with God in you is far better.

4720473

They say doing it on your own or of yourself is doing things, fulfilling your own righteousness, which God says in the bible it is as filthy rags. And that only doing the righteous things with God in you is far better.

I respectfully disagree. While I don't think people should be doing good things for their own benefit, I don't think they should be doing it for the benefit of God either. More than anything, they should be doing it for the benefit of those they are helping. It should be about compassion, not self-interest.

Then again, charity is already rare enough in this world. I suppose anything that can motivate people into helping at all is tolerable, at least for now.

4719372
I asked a Catholic priest what sin is once. He just kept telling me to enter the confession booth with him and that I would learn what sin is while in there.

The funny part is that I believed him.

4720473

They say doing it on your own or of yourself is doing things, fulfilling your own righteousness, which God says in the bible it is as filthy rags. And that only doing the righteous things with God in you is far better.

So you're pretty much saying we should only justify our actions with the morals of god?

Well I mean, most of us already do that unconsciously. Then again, those same morals can be twisted very easily to justify a lot of really bad things. I wouldn't take that concept very literally.

4720480

I respectfully disagree. While I don't think people should be doing good things for their own benefit, I don't think they should be doing it for the benefit of God either. More than anything, they should be doing it for the benefit of those they are helping. It should be about compassion, not self-interest.

Well, I see your point, but it wouldn't be about self interest, and it would be about both giving the glory to God and with his good nature in them they would be doing it for whoever they are helping.

4720516

So you're pretty much saying we should only justify our actions with the morals of god?

Well... yes... That would be the simplest way of saying it.

4720473

All the bold parts are what I thought about. The question I have how would I know if they're not lying and manipulating me? Academics, Economics, and Science you could go back and prove the facts and whatnot but with the Bible where do you start?

You can get a sense of the bigger picture by knowing and experiencing more things. With that, you can better tell whether people are manipulating you.

But seriously, if your pastor or whoever is telling you there's no way to happiness but his, fucking run. There are a lot of happy people out there who aren't part of your particular church. Find a better church, at least. If you choose to find happiness or at least your particular moral system through christianity, that is your right, but when someone tries to isolate you from the world and make you think their way through such cheap scare tactics, it's time to get the hell out of Dodge.

4720331 Agreed on a couple points.

a) disasters aren't really good ways to challenge the populous at large, but I still blame them as a natural occurence, and...

b) I'm not saying empathy isn't there for a reason, because it is and I did come off colder earlier than I intended. It's just seeing something happen over and over again over thousands of years would make any one have doubt in something.

The point, and I expressed this in an unclear and round about way and I apologize for that, is that God made us in God's image, right? So maybe God's a lot more human than most people would like to admit.

I don't think God is perfect. On the contrary, I think God's flawed and very tired of a lot of bullshit. I question God (Sidebar, I refuse to call God any gender because I don't think God would have need of one) because of it. Do I still believe? Yes, but do I believe all of it at face value? God no. Only the very arrogant or the very foolish are 100% certain of anything. You need to question what's going on around you or else you never grow. You need opposition, or else you become stagnant. I think that, ultimately, God does what he views as necessary.

I think that's why he gave us Satan and why he doesn't stop him. Because we need the adversary. Someone to fight, to make us stronger. It's why this group has you, to argue every point without giving an inch. It's why this group has me, to jerk the chain of whoever needs to get knocked down a peg.

Or, conversely, maybe I'm just enjoying amateur hour philosophy. Who knows?

Also, I may have played up the Social Darwinist angle a bit just to make the argument go on longer? Because I really do enjoy these discussions. They're fun and challenging.

4719989

From what I have been taught and have read in the bible there is no happiness outside the bible.

Science has researched this. Turns out that some non-Christian monks are the happiest group of people. If it's happiness you want, you might want to consider becoming a Buddhist monk instead of a Christian.

enter the confession booth with him and that I would learn what sin is while in there.

Tell us more about this event, please. I wish to know about your revelation of truth.

4719268 that is equal to the why question "Why is there suffering?"

4719268

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.