'Well said', - nuff said.

Also which story would that be? I'm new here....

You're writing a story about pony cannibalism?

And yes, I am new around here.

You appear to be very wise considering your current situation.

*STARTS READING*

uh...

*looks at the end*

ohhhhh, okay

I agree

Can I share this in my blog I'll give you full credit

I fear you give the people that do such things too much credit by responding to them in this way, but your points are very solid regardless. Kudos for best blog post I've seen in a while.

I feel the same as you. I myself love Dashie, but I know that not everybody does. Still it doesnt bother me because its like me and Spades my brother we have very different tastes and hobbies, but we dont hate each other for it. I've said it before and I'll say it again. LOVE AND TOLERATE PEOPLE!

I can't agree more. Great blog post!

I second this blog post.

This blog post decently written and I must conclude that the author is a decent human being from it :P

all though the popcorn addict in me is now wondering what exactly happened to trigger this blog post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlztMvvNkk

play this then read

makes it epic

But I am totally my stories. Every word I write, I gain power and form.

And when I have amassed enough prose

I shall rise from the page

And the tears of the nonbelievers shall be unto me as fine wine

And I shall devour their works and spit upon the–

Um. I mean: Don't be a dick about it. You can dislike something and even state why without being a total cock. It's not that hard.

I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, when I read a story I don't like, sometimes, if there are some grammar and spelling issues, I'll say a few words to let them know what they can fix to make it better, but I never directly attack the story itself. If I have nothing nice to say or nothing I can help them with... I move on. It's really what every author and reader should do. People who just hate on whatever they don't like... they're exactly like the people who hate on Bronies because of the show. It's sad how they don't even realize that.

This post, it is truth. Honestly, I don't even know why people bother to hate on stories. I just...don't get it. They're stories. On the internet. Why would they provoke any great show of emotion? In fact, if it provokes emotion, aren't you tacitly admitting that the writer is in fact skilled in their craft because they managed to get you to actually feel something, rather than just dismissing it from your mind like people tend to do with the rest of the bullshit that happens on the internet? Hating the writer as an extension of that is just mind boggling. I mean...apathy, guys. It has its plus points. One of the plus points is that, whilst we may passively dismiss the honest efforts of people willing to give us entertainment for free, and that of course is wrong, an apathetic person is at least not actively an asshole.

Oh well. Maybe I'm an idiot for thinking that. I just don't even understand the reaction.

Amen, Brother!

.Your points are very solid AA. Personally, I can't stand people who blindly hate something, perhaps this is because I go a bit too far in the "don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" idea. I almost fear leaving a thumbs down or a comment saying I didn't like a story. I may trash talk it to myself but that is about it.

This is a very well done blog, imo. Mostly because given the level of popularity you possess on this site AA, you should use it for occasions just like this one. Call the community out on it's bullshit and bring a public light on the issues that plague us.

I agree with you, but I guess I have no right to say taht since I haven't been the best at that...

And pony cannibalism... I'll probably skip that story, I have a weak stomach and it doesn't sound like my thing at all.

...

Naaaaaaah. I like being a dick to people. More fun that way.

However, I do agree with some of what you said. People are not their stories, so when said stories are insulted, I don't understand why they take such deep offence. A lot of authors can't seem to distinguish between themselves and their work, and get offended when even the slightest flaw is pointed out. If one can't take criticism, then one shouldn't write.

Is this about certain writer, that wrote certain blog, bashing certain fanfics?

Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Pinkie_loool.png

Yes, it was a bit too much. His jimmies were completely destroyed.

And yes, being a dick is never fun, and shows a side of your persona that you don't want your fans knowing of. (Don't know if accidentally that sentence, my english is a bit rusty ol chap)

Also, this is why I love you, sugarcube.

>>190970190970 All hail Kits. The light of the world shall flicker and fade as his form rises from the shattered remains of his bitter work.

Atleast I know someone else shares my the sames thoughts I have

What? Cannibalism?

You are either trolling or being a genius. Can't tell which. Maybe both.

>>190985190985

Wow, way to completely miss/ignore the point. Are you still convinced that I hate you based on what other people have said when I myself have never attacked you or your opinions in any shape or form?

I agree with your message wholeheartedly, but it's a little presumptuous to say that nobody has ever been hurt by fiction. Fiction, especially fiction presented as gospel truth, can influence many people to hurt or otherwise disparage others. Just look at wartime propaganda or the more recent anti-gay rights movements.

Fiction can certainly hurt people, even if it is indirectly. Especially through half-truths and rumour- Bridle Gossip, anyone?

i severely dislike haters of MLD, one of the best fics of all time. *cough* ernestgoestocamp *cough*

What? A story about pony cannibalism? You must be a...cannibal! Please share some brain meat with me.

Jokes aside, I agree with this, especially when we write fantasy. Most of us who write probably have never been to Equestria, met ponies, avoided hydras and other mythical creatures, use magic, or fly. Because that's what fan fictions are: fiction. A lot of times, fiction just expresses the things that interest us, or shows our readers the type of adventures we'd like to go on, or are fascinated with. Also, because it's fiction, the story doesn't even have to reflect any sort of interest by the writer at all.

A lot of the story comes from perception: how do you see this story? Not this author, this story, and what does it represent to you? And many people will see elements of this or that differently. Some people will see negatives, some will see positives, but that's really the beauty of it. The same story can be different things to different people, and rather than hate on it for being negative in one's view, leave it be for someone else to enjoy, because there's always someone who will.

Your words should ring true for everyone, even if it's sadly setting expectations too high. A great piece of information from a great writer, thank you AA.

this video sums this whole blog up

http://youtu.be/MaH4wFL7P8c

>>191015191015

Hate me? When did I say that? I never thought you hated me, not at any point. I would only believe such a thing if you had actually said so explicitly, which you haven't.

And believe it or not, I didn't have anything you've done in my head when I said what I did. I just meant that some people can't take criticism, and they should probably learn how to make themselves better writers instead of assuming they are deities. Not directed at you at all, really.

Ummm, sorry to be a bother, but can I ask what prompted such a - for lack of a better word - rebuke? I completely agree with the sentiment behind it.

For example, the story you mentioned? Yeah, I'm probably not going to read that anytime soon, but I'm not going to attack someone just because they've written it.

I've actually read a story along similar lines called She's My Little Pony. An amazing story despite it's shortness, and one I would highly recommend everyone reading, unless you don't like Ponies on Earth (PoE, my term) stories. People may not like HiE or PoE stories - I myself am not a huge fan of the former - but that gives them no right to hate everyone who writes them publicly.

That's what journals/diaries/Word Documents are for.

Sorry for the long reply, and for the redundancy.

>>191028191028

Hear hear!

But I am everything I write! I am totally a lost Twilight sickened by humanity and also a tiger that spends 90% of my time in internal monolouges while I carry Apple Bloom around like some sort of southern accent talking McGuffin.   Which is my way of saying everything in AAs blog I agree with, I think. I skipped most of the blog and went to the TL/DR bit at the end.   

Well said my good sir.

Wow, nice. To say the least I never really have anything negative to say on this site and I do agree that while we may not be our stories we must certainly watch how much of ourselves we put into a story, especially those who may not be able to handle criticism.

Can we despise an author for their attitude/online personality?

I agree with you on what you've said, but the thing is... (I'm not very good explaining some things, so try to bear with me)

Because of my human nature, the only reasons I don't like specific authors is that, to be honest, they write stories that seem to be based on the stupidest ideas. Yet, they make the featured box and everybody loves it. I don't know if I'm trying too hard or what, but I spill my guts into whatever I write to make it the best I can possibly make it; only to get shot down by a story that anybody with common sense could have written. That's the reason why I feel like absolute crap whenever I see in my notifications that you posted a new story, and within a day it makes the featured box.

This.  So much this.

It is the thing that I don't understand about the internet, or life in general.  People spend so much of their time and energy to make other people feel like shit or try to beat them down.  It doesn't matter whether it's FimFic, sports, Friday, or My Little Pony.  For some reason, people think a person's opinion is something to debate.  

It's ludicrous.  It's like people who hate Justin Bieber.  This is a boy who made videos on Youtube and was able to make a good life for himself.  And people choose to hate him for that?  It's the thing a lot of people dream of (money and fame), yet when an average boy reaches that goal, everyone makes it their job to shoot him down.  If people hate him for his music, that's asinine as well.  It's saying, "The sounds that you like in your ears are the wrong sounds."  Now, I'm not a fan of his myself, but the sheer amount of hate that he gets for no reason whatsoever offers a depressing look at the internet and society in general.  If you don't like something that's not hurting you, ignore it.

AbsoluteAnonymous has the right idea.  If you like something, like it.  I think we can all understand this position by liking a show that society deems inappropriate for people of our age to like.  What right do they have to tell us what is acceptable for us to enjoy?  Furthermore, no one has the right to insult someone based upon their preferences.  I mean, we've all experienced this to some magnitude at some point, why the hell do we then turn around and insult a fellow brony's creativity?  It's so hypocritical!

Enjoy what you enjoy, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.  If there is something you don't like, fucking respect that person's judgement and leave them alone; don't persecute them based upon their opinions.

>>191116191116

Is that the authors fault, though?  

No.  It isn't.  

It's not their fault that people found the story enjoyable, it certainly may be their skill, but they didn't have any major role outside that.  People like what they want to like, if they like a story, who are you to argue?  And I don't see why you'd hate an author because of their stories popularity over yours, even if it is a sub par concept.

Jealousy, perhaps?

For those inclined to "TLDR, but I think I agree", go through and read it. It'll take a few minutes of your time, and there's wisdom and insight in there to be had, if you'll just take the effort to find it.

Suffice to say, I read it, and I also agree, but then you also have to remember that a lot of people will default to their gut visceral reaction rather than taking the time to think about a more reasonable response. Problem with society at large, etc etc.

Also, since the title immediately put this in my head...

We're not our OCs.

We're not the number we have in the words read count.

We're not the ponies we ship. We're not the contents of our hard drives.

We're not our (*&%#$* fanfics.

We're the all-dreaming, all-writing crap of Equestria...

>>191059191059

I believe the point of this blog entry is that some sapient life forms on the internet hate the Author of a work of fiction, rather than just the story itself. Kind of the polar opposite of how you were interpreting it.

>>191150191150

Ah. Well, I'm not going to lie, that went right over my head, though why anyone would hate someone just because of their work is beyond me anyway.

Some people on the internet can hardly be called sapient life forms, however. Have you seen the comments section on any religion-related YouTube video?

This would be more meaningful to me if I knew what you were responding to.  I've seen the My Little Dashie haters, but that's all.

>>191129191129

Probably right.

I'll just leave my thoughts at unexplainable.

>>190970190970

Bad Yellowstar! Back in the book!

Very well put, AA.  Unfortunately, that's what happens when you have a playground with virtually no rules, where one can do pretty much anything and get away with it.  Not to mention when said playground is littered with people lacking the moral conviction and accountability to act decent to one another.  

However, I'm happy to at least know you as an author on this site, because you're taking your popularity and doing something good with it.  You should be proud.  

Thanks for the tl;dr version.

>>191160191160

There are "People" online that I am convinced are actually self-aware computer viruses. ...and they are STILL nicer to deal with than some of the religious nutjobs I've met in meatspace. At least THEY don't make me question my own faith by claiming to share the same belief system as me.

>>191197191197

I understand that people have their beliefs, and they are free to follow any religion they choose. But for the love of every deity ever, people need to stop arguing about it. *sigh*

On the subject of computer-viruses, my friend Michael can actually make those. I've seen it in effect on the school server.

Thank you so much for your words of great wisdom.

I dearly wish, with all my heart, that your sentiment was unanimous here, and that all FimFictioneers shared it.

"It's okay to not like things, it's okay,

but don't be a dick about it.

It's okay to not like thiiings!

But don't be a dick about the things you don't like.

It's really as simple as that."

- TotalBiscuit

(How has this not been posted yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_mAcunt-xQ )

I agree with 99% of what you said.

The 1% I find difficult to understand is this:

Words can’t hurt you, guys [...] they can’t damage you.

I mean your whole post says otherwise, so saying something like that is like contradicting yourself.

Words can hurt, you guys. Remember how Fluttershy overdid her assertiveness and hurt Pinkie and Rarity JUST WITH CRUEL WORDS.

If you don't enjoy stories, just don't read them, don't bash the authors for them. And if you really feel the need to criticize, criticize the story, not the author! And always in a polite manner.

I guess I'm demanding too much, aren't I? We are, after all, vicious humans and not gentle and forgiving ponies.

>>191182191182

I've still not gotten around to reading that. =/

>>191267191267 It's in the difference between the words in a story which aren't directed specifically AT the reader, so the intention to hurt the reader isn't there, and the words used to directly criticise one person or a group of people. Say, for instance, a story set in the days of the slave trade in which racism features heavily in the action and dialogue is not necessarily written by a racist author; on the other hand, a comment stating something along the lines of "all the foreigners are the problem, they should be deported back to where they came from" is directed to be disapproving of and offensive towards that group of people.

That's what I got from it anyway, hopefully I'm right.

I think I understand what your'e getting at.

The first part is that people write fan fictions because they want to and because its fun. Just like you would play a sport, or build a set of legos, or even program a mod. It is a facet of you at the most, and there isn't, or shouldn't, be a standard to how good you are in it. Sure, some people can get more views cause their art is prettier, or their story is written like a novel, or their skills are unmatched. Because in reality, its just about the process and the fact of doing it is fun.

We don't always do things for fun. Sometimes it's a competition and it can be friendly, but in reality we need to leave it at that. People get so self-absorbed in winning they forget why they did it in the first place. I think that every story was started because the author enjoyed it. And that's why I gave up on public media.

To me, the public media has been doing things for money, and not for the thrill of it. Before, we told stories over fires because it was to teach and it was fun. However, media has gone to the point, where there are so few shows left that I care about. Instead of complaining, I decided to give up and go to the internet. And that is where I found what it means to do entertainment for fun.

Stories written not for profit or gain, but for the pure enjoyment of it. And because the creators did it this way, they turned out better then half the shows on TV, no offense to TV though.

The second lesson is quite simple. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. That was a lesson I learned in 1st grade. And yet it surprises me how easily we stray from that very rule. We dislike a story to the point where no one will even touch it. And the saddest part is that it has the potential to be as good as a story featured multiple times in the feature box. There are some splendid authors out there. So plain and simple, if you think it doesn't matter to badger people and that they ought to "man-up" and take it, well then why should you even care to start it? It takes energy to give out negative feedback, that will just generate negative feedback and so forth. So what's the point? Why not just "man-up" like you say and not waste the energy in the first place? Especially if your fandom is a place about love and toleration. You don't have to love it, but can you at least have the decency to tolerate it? And this goes for everything that has attracted hate.

It's okay to give constructive criticism, in fact it shows that you care for the story enough to see it improved, but there is a fine line between trying to help the story and just being down-right rude. So if you see a story you don't like, move on or say something that will help the author (and try to say it in a nice way too, otherwise they won't get it).

There are other fandoms that are about blood and gore, but they still respect each other. We need to go above and beyond that. If we truly believe in what we are worshipping, put it into practice. If your just there for the laughs, then that's perfectly fine to. Just don't start saying stuff that you know could potentially hurt other people's feelings.

Okay, so it is easier said then done. But you know what, we are humans and with humans, anything is possible. So you know what, do what you love and don't let anyone else put you down. The only time you should stop doing what you love is if what you love will hurt or harm the other things that people love to do. So if you love directing malicious content towards other people, then it is probably best to stop and find a new hobby to pursue, only because it is having negative effects on your peers.

So yeah...I think your post just got me rambling...oh well

Oooh, pony cannibalism.

Wait, there was a message in there somewhere, something about words not being able to hurt people...I'm pretty sure that's not really true, in that communication is perfectly capable of hurting people, having both received and given wounds that way.   In fact, let me say this:  Some ideas are abhorrent.  They go beyond lacking value and into having negative value.  Not that the most egregious of said ideas are commonly found even in the worst stories I've read on this site, I just thought I should say it, since communication is a perfectly valid method for attack or else you wouldn't have felt the need to write this post.  Over the internet, we're just a bunch of words and images being sent back and forth, after all, not punches or kicks.

On the other hand, not transferring hatred of stories into hatred of people is a good policy.  You're quite right that authors are not their work.  Personal attacks over stories are almost always going too far.  When I look at things like people founding a group just to state they don't like your personality (even if that did turn mostly into a joke) it's nasty and petty.  The same would go even if the author in question was horribly untalented and wrote stories i disliked.  It's usually a silly waste of time to obsess over bad stories when you could just go read good ones and a sillier waste of time to go after their writers.  There might be the occasional rare anti-gem, a story so horrible its' worth moving against, but generally upset people seem to be upset over very little worth getting upset about here.  

*cough* EmeraldFlight *cough*

Pretty much.

I'm very curious as to what made you write this, and I haven't been the target of any directed hate based on my works (yet, I suppose) but these are good words. I'm very glad you included the start, here. We are not our stories, but yes, we're baring part of ourselves. There's a distinction.

I don't believe in authors and would-be-authors trying to elevate themselves over others who do not write fics, but it's a little sad, sometimes, to see how easily tens and hundreds of hours are dismissed by pointless hatred. Not dismissed as in "not read" - heavens, if I started crusading against those who pass my stories by because they're shipping, I'd be just as bad. No, I myself always wondered what went on in the heads of those who star bomb a ship fic the second it goes up on EqD.

I don't get it. I don't understand how that level of hatred works.

Seems legit. Glad someone had the guts to say it. I know I didn't. It's so easy to have these high ideals and just sit on them, never really trying to make a difference, but at least someone's prodding some verbal buttock. Note to self: Must be better.

>>191115191115

Yes. That is perfectly all right.

>>191019191019

>>191267191267

>>191315191315

Did you notice the part in the blog where I emphasized that it's not the words themselves but the intentions behind them that cause pain? If someone insults you with the intention of hurting you, then yes, it might hurt. If someone is spreading anti-gay propaganda, yes, it can cause damage. But it's not literally the words themselves; it's their purpose. When I say words can't hurt you, I quite literally mean the words themselves can't hurt you. Like, if you emptied a bag of Scrabble tiles on the table, those letters can't actually do anything to you. They're just letters. It's only when you apply a meaning to them that they cause harm. All you have to do to avoid being harmed is avoid applying a meaning to them. If nobody read or followed such propaganda, they wouldn't have any influence.

>>191064191064

>>191164191164

>>191362191362

It's a reaction to this mildly infamous blog post. I find it annoying how Carmine is gloating about his "success" and how people are hailing him as some sort of hero for insulting another author to the point of them taking their story down.

    Spending lots of free time on the internet, I have learned the place does not function on moral standards. It's pretty much the wild west out here. Therefore, people do and say what they want, because there seems to be no reproductions. Oscar Wilde, the man who created "V For Vendetta", said "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

    Unfortunately, that truth is how they love power. The ability to take down websites, and demolish moral standards has run the underbelly of the internet for years. Just try five minutes on 4chan. Even though we are bronies, we are still in a semi-anonymous state. Meaning they have the power to do what they want. And they will do it. And they don't care. It's just what I've come to expect from the internet.

>>191378191378

That may be what you've come to expect from the Internet, but it shouldn't be what you've come to expect from humanity in general. I find it sad and pathetic that people have unanimously decided that anonymity equates with being a dick. Is it really that hard to be a decent person these days?

>>190970190970

I agree...but I prefer standing over their lifeles- I mean leer at them from far away.

But in all sense of decency there is truly such a thing as manners, internet or no. So yes, we all here share a common like, MLPFIM. But what we are taught from the show that teaches love and tolerance is...err love and tolerance. So I agree to you Kits and to you good sir AA.

You're in good company on this topic, AA. S.M. Stirling once decided to write an alternate-history series where the bad guys win. How "bad" were the bad guys? Well, they were involved in an alternate WWII, and most readers wound up rooting for the Nazis by default. That bad. So obviously Stirling is worse than a Nazi, right?

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot."

-- S.M. Stirling

>>191377191377 ...Huh.

Well. You'll pardon me if I hang out in this corner of FimF instead.

>>191377191377

That blogpost... that circle jerk in the comments. Why? I mean, it's one thing to hate a story, but to tell people who like said story to "fuck off and die" is cruel. This is fanfiction. You don't have to pay for it and you don't get paid for writing it, so just sit back, shut up and let people enjoy what they fucking enjoy.

Agreed. I'm just gonna' L&T.

>>191377191377 I read that blog post, and skimmed through the comments. What I saw was him trashing those stories and calling the authors shitheads, and how he was happy that 'Second Life' was deleted. I didn't see him, however, being the one who personally insulted the author to that point. He was just dancing on 'Second Life's grave, and the people who followed him followed suit.

I was really tempted to comment, but I don't even want to go near that comment section.

>>191394191394 Agreed.

"Sharing these innermost parts of yourself with strangers online is risky; after all, you’re baring your soul to them and there’s nothing stopping them from taking advantage of that. The more heartfelt your work, the more it reveals about yourself and the harder it becomes to share it with others."

Am I the only one around here who has no problem with this whole baring their soul thing? Rather than do something like erecting a wall of steel around my heart, I made my heart out of steel. It's really quite simple. All you have to do is strive for approval, yet not care whether or not you receive it.

I don't think Carmine should have made his blog post. I don't think you should have made yours. Not the way it is, anyways.

>>191377191377

It's not entirely true. The intention is the cause, but in itself it doesn't hurt you - the tool used to convey it does.

If someone cuts you with a knife is it the knife that causes the bleeding, or the attacker's hate?

Then again, the knife in itself wouldn't cut you on its own, it's just a tool used to convey the attacker's intention.

On the other hand, if someone got the rubber knife, would you agree that you were hurt less (maybe even got away with only a few bruises and no cuts)?

What I try to say it's that some words or actions can hurt more than others even if the intention stays the same.

Anyway, it's good to know the reason behind this post, but then again it was certainly sad to see the way Carmine behaved. I don't follow him/her so I missed his/her post, but it truly is the polar opposite of the love-and-tolerate policy of most Bronies.

>>191380191380

Image: http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg

Of, if you wanna get all sciencey about it...

It's as unfortunate as it is unsurprising.  And there's many things we could point to behind it.  Ultimately?  It's just people.  These sorts of behaviors and attitudes have always existed and yeah, a good point that makes it much worse is the anonymity of the internet.

Of course, what's worse is the sense of entitlement a community such as the Internet naturally creates for the average person.  In a place like this, where anyone can pop right in, spout out their opinion (to any degree they like, with thought and care or abandoned rambling and everything in between) and then leave, you're gonna get a lot of this sort of thing.  It's sad, disheartening, and maybe even a little upsetting.

But then we have a post like this, people like you, on the other side.  It all balances out and, ultimately, you can only take your advice--if you don't like it, don't hate it or allow it to affect you, just leave.

Since walking into the general population of fan fiction, I've had a whole lot of thinking to do about it, and my thoughts and feelings on the matter have changed greatly.  For example, when I first came in, I decided to not read ship fics.  I didn't like how it was (typically) handled, I didn't agree with it, so I stayed away.  Then I read one, and a pony ship fic at that.  Loved it.  Was very well done and very heartwarming, got right into my cheesy hopeless romantic core.  I set new standards and decided to only avoid fics that shipped canon characters (regardless of universe).  Now even that's beginning to change as I stumble into quality and respectful fics.

I agree that it's bloody ridiculous to start raving against another human being simply because you don't like their work.  But y'know...the best thing to do with those people is simply to not give them attention.  Isolation of the cancer is really the only cure.  It takes all of us to band together in order to keep our community a place of love and tolerance, not by bashing back but by simply saying, 'No, we're not going to associate with that type of hurtful, angry behavior.'

I've probably rambled enough, so basically...It's good to have reasonable people to support, and if I were you I'd find it pleasing to have reasonable people supporting me.  I do indeed hope that's the case--for I love this community, and I want to see it not only survive but thrive.  With thoughtful and wise rhetoric like this bringing us all together, that's how I know it's possible.

Above all else, keep in mind: 90% of everything is crap anyway, so let's be that 10%, alright?

>>191378191378

Alan Moore created "V for Vendetta"

Oscar Wilde, while eminently quotable, died in 1900, significantly before comic books were a thing.

>>191377191377

I don't see a qualitative difference between Carmen's post ripping on fics, and your post ripping on fics.  Didn't you also write a post ripping on the "ponies learn to swear" fics?  It's gone now.  Maybe that was device heretic?

>>191766191766

How did I not notice that?

>>191873191873

Firstly, it's not gone. This is the only post I've ever made where I speak negatively about fanfiction on this site in any way. I think the post you're thinking of is the one where I linked to a story by kits. That post didn't bash anyone's story, it just said that this kind of fic (ponies swearing) has been around longer than some people might think. Secondly, Carmine was citing specific fics and authors and was gloating over getting the Living the Dream guy to take down his fic. I was citing general categories of fics and pointing out a flaw in the featured system and never once attempted to bash a specific story. Thirdly, I made that post quite a while ago. People are capable of changing their opinions over time, especially when extenuating circumstances force them to reconsider. In my case, I decided that tolerance is preferable to outright hating on people I don't even know. I don't fully understand why there are people out there trying to convince me I'm wrong.  

You know nothing Jon Snow

Also, all I hear is "Bitching bitching bitching."

I don't mean to start a raging shitstorm here, but this blog post raised some questions with me.

First off, I'd like to say that this post gave me the idea that you'd rather we not use the dislike system. At all. People sometimes hate stories, yes, but there have been precious few cases in which the author of said stories hadn't supplied those people with sufficient reason to do so. Authors who refuse to listen to constructive criticism, authors who don't even try to get their story to be grammatically correct, and most of all, authors with stories that simply don't make any sense. The dislike system is there for people to voice their opinion, and I would have it no other way.

True, people sometimes go too far in listing a story's flaws, but most cases I've seen of such behavior were constructive criticism, not hating. Pointing out the flaws in a story may seem like a harsh thing to do, but it'll just help the author out in the long run. I'll be honest in saying that I'm not very good at taking criticism in large amounts, but I will do my best to try and fix issues that people point out to me, should I agree with them. I in no way approve of hate without reason, and I've seen stories (though not very many) that were hated simply because of the idea behind them (sequels to popular stories are a pretty common example). Although I can understand that the readers might dislike the idea, it raises a few questions for me. Why were those people there in the first place? The story description already told them what the story was about, so why go there with the intention of disliking it? I stay away from stories of which I already know that I'm going to dislike them, because I won't be able to form an unbiased opinion on the writing itself.

Also, if our stories are not us, then why is getting hated such a big deal? Misinterpreting people's intentions in written words is much, much easier to do than it is to misinterpret people's intentions in spoken words. People pointing out the flaws in stories aren't always hating, they might just be helping. I've seen one example so far of an author who got terribly offended by people who pointed out the flaws in his story, and he just kept on writing. I admire his motivation, I really do, but I also feel sorry for him. On one hand, I feel like people who receive excessive amounts of negative comments should suck it up and keep writing. On the other hand, I feel like these people should stop, drop, and take a look at the commentary they were given. Very rarely have I seen a story that got hated without reason. I can't even think of an example right now (I don't do much reading, mind you). Either the stories were so grammatically incorrect that they weren't even coherent, or the stories (as I said) didn't make any sense by themselves (this question in particular is one I'd like to have an answer to).

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything here, I just want some more explanation, because what I read just now didn't make any sense to me.

With all of that said and done, I'd just like to say that I've been living up to a small bit of this blog post. I'll refrain from reading stories (and judging them) by authors I personally dislike (kind of already mentioned earlier). I fear that my opinion on them as a person will reflect on my opinion on their writing, making me end up with an incredibly biased opinion on a story which I otherwise might have enjoyed. I'm not disagreeing with this blog post, I just don't completely understand it, I suppose (the last paragraph made the least sense, to me. How can I know I dislike a story if I haven't tried to read it? And while I'm there, telling the author why I don't like the story might improve his later works).

I'm reminded of a quote by Charles Issawi: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." In other words, people get the most wound up over the things that matter the least.

>>191975191975

I'm not saying you can't use the dislike system. In fact, I didn't mention the dislike system at all. I'm saying that I think it would if people avoided being raging assholes to the author just because they happened to downvote something of theirs. Dislike and criticize as much as you want, but don't be a dick about it. There's a difference between constructive criticism and outright insulting someone. I'm talking specifically about those people who go to far and go straight into "outright insulting" territory, where they begin personally attacking the author or something equally excessive.

>>192095192095

Well, I haven't spent enough time digging around stories to have found those people. And some people might have different ideas of "outright insulting" than others. I suppose that's what you get when you only read stories that appeal to you. Celestia only knows how Fimfiction manages to think that I've read over 500k words, because that's definitely not the case. This makes me wonder, though... Seeing as I haven't seen any examples of this kind of behavior, is it really that big of a problem?

In other words

if ur a hater,

u don't belong in this community

:D

>>192105192105

It's always been a huge problem.

OK, there are 2 parts to this post:

1: Being judged based on how we present ourselves through out fiction.

2: The persecution of authors and their fictions based on these judgements.

I agree 100% with #2. Just because you have an opinion, or even if you are "right" does not entitle you to act like and asshole and harass others, no matter how much you hate them.

But as for #1? Of course you're gonna be judged. You say they don't know you well enough to judge you based on that alone? That's not how it works. They don't know you well enough NOT to judge you on what amounts to EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TO GO ON. We are who we present ourselves as. That's not ALL we are, but that is WHO WE ARE to those who only know us as such. We are the masks we wear after all.

>>191766191766

Woops. My bad. I've seen Wilde and his ideologies mixed with "V for Vendetta" so many times I just sort of mixed him in with the thing. Yes, Alan Moore. Guess I need to go back and re-study just who did what. I hate messing them up like that.

>>191377191377

First, effect and intent are not always synonymous.  You can hurt people without meaning to and fail to hurt people while meaning to.  That said, intent does play a large part in the effect, yes.  It's a major contributing factor, just not the only factor.

Second, to say that it is the meaning we give words and our reactions to them that creates harm is about as technically true but even less useful than saying "guns don't kill people, bullets do".  Words by definition, convey meaning.  If there is no meaning attached, they are just noise.  And part of speaking a language is being trained to inextricably associate certain meanings with certain words.  Once you've recognized the words, the meaning penetrates.  If you didn't recognize the meaning, you didn't recognize the words.  You can start ignoring someone, but by the time you've got enough information to make that decision, some of their words have already affected you.  A bunch of scrabble pieces can't hurt you?  No, they just have a harder time of it.  If you had issues about, oh say your weight, and looked down to see they all read things like "Fatty" or "blimp" you'd probably have a nasty turn.  And that could happen by random.  Constructed words have a much easier time of things even if the main point of their construction was not originally harm.  

But, rest assured, this is a separate issue from directing one's hatred on people one does not know.  I'm simply saying "words can hurt you" with a side order of "some things made of words are worth going out of your way to eliminate or weaken".  I enjoy a good technical discussion over the mechanisms by which things work.  

EDIT:  About that other thing?  If you're only familiar with the movie, you might want to try the original version of "V for Vendetta" (and doubly so for Watchmen), Moore does some good work, though his stuff does tend to be a bit dark.    I didn't enjoy some of his most recent pieces but his earlier stuff tends to be consistently high quality.  

>>192687192687

Ah, there are some interesting sociological and psychological studies that show what anonymity tends to cause is a lessening of restraint.  In many people this means being ruder, but there's a wide range of effects along this theme.  I was originally introduced to the concept while studying the way people in crowds are capable of doing things they individually wouldn't (whether it's rioting or ignoring an injured person) but it applies to the Internet as well.  So, one need not rely on Wilde's keen insights alone for this kind of thing.

>>190977190977 Noooope. You, and many others have all hit the nail on the head, dead center. Actively attacking someone for writing they put effort into, whether it be ten minutes of just convulsive spasms at the keyboard, or days, weeks, months, or even, for those dedicated and inspired writers year(s) of plotting, developing, characterizing, editing and all the other minutiae so vital to the writing process, is just petty, cruel, and inhumane. Now, knowing the average internet dweller, asking for common human decency is about as outrageous and alien as asking a Hindi man to punch a cow, if one must flame, flame the writing once, and get on with your life, there are other targets, and going out of ones way to terrorize another repeatedly is an absolute low.

Image: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw9pp8lvVE1qjacma.gif

This blog entry. It totally needed to be said. Cheers, AbsolutelyAnonymous.

I can't say how totally and completely awesome it is that one of the most followed authors on fimfic also happens to be a person who says stuff like this, and says it so well. I guess that's using fame for the right reasons, or whatever. If I don't judge you on your stories, AA, can I judge you on how clever and generally-all-round-decent a person you seem to be from your blog posts? (Well, and snarky, and a bit hilarious on occasion, too.)

But yeah, I definitely agree with this and most of the comments and stuff. There's nothing wrong with disliking a story, down-voting a story, or even saying how much you dislike a story, but there's no need to turn it all into a personal assault and start throwing around all this hate and saying how worthless people are. Like, just be critical and not an asshole when you do.

Remember, people can be bad writers without being bad people, right? (. . . and vice versa!).

>>191377191377

Oh, wow. That guy, in my humble opinion, needs to get banned from fimfiction. But whatever. Just putting it out there that I'm willing to do any technical editing for fics if you or anyone else is interested. If anyone is, and can't find my email to email them to me, ask, and I'll PM with the email.

>>191415191415

It's "Living the Dream" that apparently got pulled down due to the blog post, actually, and the bragging was mostly happening in IRC.

For the most part, I agree with what AbsoluteAnonymous has said.

Whenever a person publishes a piece of literature (and, for that matter, music and art), they are exposing themselves to public scrutiny and running a risk of damage to their own feelings and ego. It is perfectly alright to dislike that product, and it is perfectly alright to express that dislike, however people need to be considerate of the feelings that they run the risk of harming.

If you feel the need to express your dislike, explain why you dislike it and leave some hints of how the text could be improved. That way, an author may be taken aback by the fact that someone didn’t like their work, but they know why and how to improve. Knowing this takes away the sense of being “hated” upon by the anonymous masses.

Furthermore, hating an author for creating the text in the first place is frankly unfair. We rarely if ever have enough information about someone to make an accurate judgement of who they are, and even if we do, it often lacks the instinctual understanding gained simply by talking to them face to face and regularly interacting with them.

That being said, it is foolish to expect anyone NOT to form a judgement of those they interact with. We will all inevitably form an opinion of author’s, it can be as basic as “I like them” or “I don’t like them”. So don’t try stop yourself from forming an impression of an author, but remember to tread carefully when it comes to acting on this impression, as you could be mistaken or not know the full story.

I apologize for the long post, but I feel that it needed to be said and if you did bother to peruse this comment, good on you.

"We are not our stories."

Sure, I can get behind that.

"Yes, you’re sharing a part of yourself with the world, but it’s only ever a part. There’s always more that remains unsaid. If you read a story I’ve written, you may gain a slightly better understanding of who I am, but it’s not even close to the same thing as knowing me as an actual person."

This, however, I find humorous. It's qualifying the first statement: "The sum of what we are is not our stories; our stories comprise only a fragment of what we are." What you then imply is that these fragments, these parts are beyond judgement because they are not the whole. The humor I find is this comes from a person who styles herself absolutely anonymous; the first thing you tell us is you don't want us to know everything about you. It is also flawed. If we cannot judge the parts of a person, how to judge the whole? Is not the whole person a function of the parts?

You confuse me. Or perhaps only a part of you confuses me.

>>192869192869 Oh. The IRC.

*slow clap turning into an applause*

Yes. I completely agree. One shouldn't judge an author as a person just on his story/works. If you, as a reader/criticizer, have to comment on a story, don't tell the author that he/she sucks, but that the story sucks (and if you're a good reader, you give constructive criticism, meaning why it sucks).

But again, remember; Just because of the anonymity you get on the internet, doesn't mean that you should act like a total dickhead.

-Glassed

>DON’T BE A DICK TO PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE THEIR STORIES

People do that?

Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_TwilightWut.png

Image: http://mlkshk.com/r/2HUV

in all seriousness, yes, there is so much truth in what AA said. I've seen people purposefully star bomb, leave rude comments, downvote just because they simply didn't like it and did not give a legitimate reason why it was bad.

I am very happy to have stumbled upon this, AA.

Gosh, why can't I favorite blog posts?!

Exactly, nothing is more discouraging than having a reader critique what they assume your motive to be rather than stating their opinion as their opinion rather than the absolute standard.