A discussion on stealing characters · 2:50am Aug 19th, 2014
I was reviewing a story earlier today that had many, many flaws. One of these flaws, as some commenters said, is that the author used a character from a well-known fic written by a well-known author. These commenters complained that, unless the writer had the permission of said author, using that particular character was bad. Somehow.
This isn't the first time I've seen this come up in a story, and for a while, I agreed. After all, this is a writing website, and stealing a character is kind of like plagiarism, and that's bad. Except then someone else countered with another question: "Did [well-known fic author] ask permission from Lauren Faust/Hasbro/the show's creators to use [canon character(s)]?"
Which led me to realize that fanfiction in general apparently occupies this sort of weird space where you can steal indiscriminately from the source material but not other derivatives of that source material. (Apologies if I'm using the terminology wrong.)
So here's my question. Why is it OK to use characters and settings from the show, but not characters created by other fic writers? When I try to reason it out, I always run into a dead end, but for some reason it just feels different. This isn't something I call anyone out on, partly because I can't figure out how to justify it while simultaneously endorsing stealing characters from the show, and partly because I'm not familiar enough with popular fics to know they're doing it in the first place.
Young whippersnappers...
Anyway, I'm curious about what you guys think. Does this bother you? And if so, why?
~Scribs
Nope doesn't bother me at all
For all we know, Lauren Faust would've been equally miffed when she first discovered pony fanfiction. Same offended reaction, but the difference is here, the distance between parties is non-existent, and one can traverse the distance to give the other what they dun got coming with just a click of a button.
Or, in simpler words, it's easier for us to fire opinions at each other than it is for source creators to do so with us. At least that's what I'd think.
Well, it'd probably piss the original creator of the characters off, that's for sure. I'm certain Pen Stroke wouldn't enjoy seeing his character Nyx in pornographic or even foalcon situations, that's for sure. And he has every right to be mad, since he took the time to make and flesh out the character. Personally, I don't see it as wrong, but definitely in bad taste and a way to create needless drama.
2381585 That's true, but I guess I don't see a moral distinction just because it's harder to contact the creators.
2381630 Definitely. But I'm pretty sure that also applies to the people who made Twilight and Co., and even more so to Hasbro and its kid-friendly image.
2381652
Good point, and heaven knows I have abused that line as far as it'd go, but within this realm of thought that taking the show and using the characters past anything OTHER than a kid's show would make any fanfiction extremely limited. While this can also be seen as bad taste, the people who created the characters don't really care much. I mean, if they did, would fimfic still be standing? An author on fimfic who created their characters would take much more insult to seeing them being misused since they created those characters for their own stories, with their own time, and with their own effort. Not to say Faust or the other writers didn't do this, but, well... they actually got paid for it. A fanfiction writer doesn't (most of the time). Though at the end of the day it still comes down to who shall complain and why.
No moral distinction exists. It's just hypocrisy, or a matter of good manners, that we do this. I'm personally against any and all asking of permissions from fanfiction authors. In a sane world people would realize that they have no moral right to try to keep someone else from writing a story using one of their characters, and act accordingly.
Defamatory or obscene stories, on the other hand—such as if someone were to take your OC and write a rapefic about them—these have a different moral status, and besides being immoral for merely being what they are, can take on an added dimension of personal animosity due to the perceived close connection between an author and his OCs.
One regard is feasibility. Not only would Lauren not be able to grant/deny permission to each individual story on this site, but due to the way that copyright has a sort of built-in "use it or lose it" effect, companies are under an obligation to strike down blatant offenses. That's why Fighting Is Magic got dinged, because with EVO popularity, there was no foreseeable way to look the other way without sending a strong message that said "use our characters however you want, we'll never go after you," which not-legally-but-de-facto weakens the copyright claim. Fanfiction technically falls into the same bucket, but even our most fan-popular works (FO:E, Past Sins... the ones getting the big print orders) are peanuts, so Hasbro can safely pretend they've never heard of this site, or that it's not financially reasonable to pursue us. (Actually, the latter is probably true.)
Still, because of the relative smallness of the site or even the fandom, and the infrequency with which any individual OC might be reused, there's certainly an appeal to civility, to request that an author ask for permission first. After all, the author would like to know, wouldn't they? It's certainly flattering, in a way. But I guess the more urgent question is, if permission is sought and denied, is the borrowing author under any obligation to honor the request? ...Like the others, I think I have to say no in order to avoid hypocrisy. Writing something at the expressed disapproval of the original author is certainly rude but it's hardly reasonable to state that their OC is somehow more sanctimonious than Twilight Sparkle.
Speaking from experience, one of my in-progress fics picked up an unofficial spin-off / sequel. (For some reason he was under the impression that the incomplete story was actually complete. I can't begin to think what gave him the impression it wouldn't be updated...
) But anyway, the author never told me. A friend discovered it, didn't even tell me directly, he told a friend who passed it through the grapevine and eventually I learn of the illegitimate fic-child. Now, the spin-off takes enough artistic liberties that I didn't feel comfortable recognizing it as an official spin-off, but nonetheless I was flattered by the attention. My story had evoked enough of an emotional response in someone (especially with my unresolved plotlines) that they felt compelled to set things right, to write it a worthy ending. Just because I don't directly like the direction of the story doesn't mean I can't appreciate that it exists.
2382844 Interesting. It reminds me a bit of a video I saw discussing what gamers want and how a corporation's attitude toward enforcing copyright on YouTube can affect how well that corporation does. I'll include it here:
(You can skip to about 5 minutes)
To summarize, Matt makes a case toward the end of the video that Nintendo's strict enforcement of copyright on YouTube hurts its sales because people are afraid or unwilling to talk about their products for fear of having the videos taken down.
It's something I've thought about a bit since watching this video, and while I think it's a bit conceited to say YouTubers have that big of an impact, I can't deny that word-of-mouth is a great way to sell something, as it's a form of free publicity.
I wonder if this is a discussion that comes up in corporate meetings or something - balancing copyright maintenance while allowing fans to express themselves and spread good attitudes about the product.
2382202 I wonder if some people decry using another fanfic author's character because they're worried the same could happen to them. Granted, it only seems to happen with mega-popular fics, but the average site commenter probably feels closer to another fic writer than a show writer. That it happens with popular media is one thing, but when it happens to someone who's doing the same thing you are, it hits closer to home.
2382864
Matpat is so sexy zomg
That very argument also applies to MLP in a positive light. Many, many people didn't have access to the Hub during Season 1's run (let alone now). But Hasbro turned an exceptionally blind eye to Youtube episode uploads during that period. The result is that many people had access to the show solely because of these uploads, and the "dude, check this show out, ctrl-v" viral nature was a huge factor in the word-of-mouth popularity boom of S1 bronies.
Oh, another thing I forgot to mention: At least credit the OC creator. "Nyx was created by Pen Stroke" or whatever. Those disclaimers are self-evident when I'm using Twilight Sparkle in a story, but if I'm using Kefentse in my story, it's not obvious to all readers that this isn't actually my character. Again, it's just common decency that you credit all contributors, in the same way you'd credit the artist of your coverart.
I believe that if Lauren's/Hasbro/DHX position was clear in that they didn't think Fanworks of MLP were appropriate, things would be different. I would certainly never try to write fanfiction for George R.R. Martin, an author that is notoriously anti-fanfiction.
2382900
Absolutely. If I hadn't found seasons 1 and 2 on YouTube for free, we would not be having this conversation right now.
2382202 Seconded, both paragraphs.