Twilight x Spike... Criminal or not? My view of the matter! · 11:32pm Jun 8th, 2012
Hi everypony!
I guess there's been a little controversy about my latest story, Wine for Two, in which Twilight and Spike get romantically involved. 
Now, some people have said that it's a criminal situation. But it's really not. Allow me to explain....
It's all a question of maths, really. Twilight was a filly when Spike was born - if you look at her character model, she looks a bit younger than the CMC. If we think of the CMC as about 10 or so (they're in Elementary school, right?), I put filly Twilight at maybe 8 when Spike was born. Twilight is now around, I don't know, 24 years of age or something like that. So there's probably only around an 8 year difference between the two, which makes Spike around 16 or thereabouts, within the age of consent. Maybe other people's head canon is different from mine, but that's what I'm working from. 
Now, I guess Spike looks a lot younger than that, but he can't be anything like the 5 or 6 year old he appears if we follow the canon series of events. The whole issue of Twilight being his mother-figure or whatever, now, I guess that might creep some people out, but this "cougar" revolution is making the whole older-woman, younger-man thing a lot more acceptable (which is only fair, I feel). 
So really there's nothing much to argue about. As for the whole drunk thing, they're tipsy rather than drunk, and they're both clearly sober enough to consent (although being half asleep does complicate matters somewhat, doesn't it?). No court in Equestria, or even in our own shabby world (except, I guess, for some fundamentalist religious courts), would convict Twilight of any sort of crime.
Hope that explains things somewhat! 
Butterscotch
Hey! Just write what you want! I enjoyed it and others will too. Don't let the downers bring you down.
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In all seriousness, I just think it's a cute and nice story. Don't really go for clop, just how sweet it was. Didn't even ring in my mind about age of consent cause I kinda damn well figured both were old enough due to the series.
I was always perfectly okay with it, it's sweet and a'dawwable and more importantly written by you, stamp of quality.
My thoughts exactly. The guy looks after Twilight as much as she does him and he was mature enough to have an existential crisis about being the only one of his kind he knew, it took The Doctor centuries to hit that point and he has much better fashion sense than the rest of us.
Well, the fact that there hasn't been an established age of consent law in Equestria should end it right there.
I don't think it should be considered controversial unless it starts generating news articles. A bunch of people get mad that your headcanon isn't in their headcanon; so what? I'm more in favor of Twilestia, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying seeing Twilight with different characters as well.
Let the haters hate.
Yeah, while im not into Twi- Spike i think saying "its criminal" its an over-reaction to it... Let the "mojigatos" keep talking.
Love and tolerate.
If they don't, write it on a sign, and hit them with it, until they do.
it's just people hating on Spike...for being the butt monkey....
Ok, first of all...I myself am one of the most loyal fans of Spike/Twilight romance ever (atleast in my own eyes) if people do in fact have a problem with that then they don't need to read those types of stories, that's like reading a Big mac/Applejack romance, if your not into it, then don't read it.
It's not as hard as people make it seem. If anyone is crying or screaming at you about these two lovers being together then come get me for I got your back 100% bro.
Just give me a sword (verbal I guess) or two and we will take some bastards down who can't learn to keep their mouths or writing to themselves, that I promise.
Hate it when people whine and complain about looking at reviewing a story that they have no love for whatsoever, it's VERY annoying.
Spike + Twilight
= FOREVER!!!!!!!!!
Also, I'm reading your story right now so expect an honest review from me, Butters.
I never thought anything negative about it, but i appreciate how you justify why it's not "criminal", or whatever others may call it. Shipping is shipping, so it doesn't really matter to me who you pare together. You chose Twi X Spike, and i thought it worked out acceptably. Great story.
The controversy is mainly two people, me being one of them, arguing on a somewhat tangential matter.
Still, if you're going to be tackling a sticky pairing like this, it needs to be said outright, in the story, that this is the case. Otherwise, confusion crops up.
Ones a dragon and the other is a magical talking purple pony...are we really going to try to impose real world morals meant for humans on these two? Just enjoy the romance.
Yeah, I feel that the mane 6 are in their early twenties, so that makes Spike an older teenager. I personally adore Twi/Spike, and I can't wait to see how you develope their relationship.
It very much depends on where you put the baselines - and what maturation rates of different species are, since that's something we humans, alone on our planet, don't have to deal with.
I suspect the main issue for a lot of people is that Spike is portrayed as fairly young - in behaviour, and in general body shape, and in that it seems rather like he's just entering puberty (first crush and all that).
But, if you declare the fic's setting to be specifically "Spike is late puberty and past legal age", that's your own choice - for many people it'll be an AU, but that's hardly a barrier to a good story.
It's not to my tastes, but >criminal? WTH people. It's >fanfiction for crying out loud.
Well... to be honest I won't read the paring but it's not because of the age thing since after all I follow AppleSpike and Twilestia (though I may draw the line somewhere). Yeah I think of Spike and Twilight as siblings or mother/son, but I say write what you want as long as it doesn't violate the rules of the site. The naysayers can suck it.
pinkie.ponychan.net/chan/files/src/133411168333.jpg
I love Twilestia, So I won't judge at all xD
THANK YOU!! I mean, out of all the My Little Pony pairings, why is Spilight the most controversial!!??
um we are arguing over CHARACTERS in a Cartoon... um
um we are taking this TOO seriously then 
Who cares...
so its ok that
has sex with
but not
just write the story and tell everyone to relax its JUST A STORY
\
someponies are more acostumbrated to see shipping between mares, but this one was really great
even i am not a fan of clopfics ( i thinks this is a kind of) it was a good story
"Any suggestion may i say?? make an appledashie story some day"
The fact that you should explain things like this alone
Hang on.... Do these busybodies really have so much time on their hands that they feel they have the 'right' to protest to the pairing of a shipping fic that A, very kindly has pairing warnings on the front to let anyone who dissapproves of TwiSpike fics know NOT to read it. B, has been FREELY displayed on a fanfiction site at no cost to themselves (Whereas I feel an author of Butterscotchsundae's caliber has every right to charge for his/her stories.) And C, this is 'FANFICTION', i.e. a non-cannon story that is written and guided by a fan of a show/book/cartoon/etc. If you don't like the pairing, (which, oddly enough is the whole point of a shipping story!) then feel free to leave and try another story.
So, in the immortal (and sadly non-cannon) words of one of my favourite ponies..... Haters, go BUCK yourselves and let the rest of us enjoy Butterscotchsundae's hard work.
Right, rant over.
yea maybe those people need to understand that this is "FIMfiction" not law school
well, I love twi x spikes and i hate when shit happens, so yeah... my head canon = spike and twi = ok
My 2 bits on the matter:
1. Dragons work differently from ponies. For all we know, he is sexually mature.
2. Spike clearly has the mental capacities of an adolescent or even a grown up
3. He is apparently old enough to cook, work for a living and take sole responsibility for a pet.
4. With very rare exceptions, Spike never "plays" or does anything that suggests that he is still a child.
Ergo: The mane six basically treat him like an equal.
163637 *Brohoof* Damn straight, I can agree with that.
16 in pony years yes, but as 100 years or whatever it was (from the dragon episode) is a sleeping period for a dragon (it can't take up more than a fifth of their life-time, can it now, that would be very strange); then they probably live for a very very long time (500 years at the very least, my guess would be way over 1000). and i gather that would mean that a dragon probably matures a lot slower as well, hence; spike would not be as matured as you say. still, dragon may very well go through very different growth periods during their life as opposed to ponies; spike did have that "teenager" episode recently, hinting that he may be older than one might think, a baby dragon might still be a very "mature" dragon in some aspects.
163692 These people are very impressive with their words, keep speaking bro, I like how you word this LOL *Brohoof* Damn straight.
163647
Oh my god I love that picture.
As Kits said, it's fanfiction. I enjoyed your story and would like to see more. If people don't like it, then don't read it, really a very simple solution to their "problem" with this pairing. But keep on going I really love all your work.
oh I have a new notification
*checks*
oooh butterscotchsundae has posted a new story...
Wine for two? *clicks on it*
OH SWEET CELESTIA A TWI X SPIKE
*flees*
No laws have been stated in canon, therefore all legal arguments are moot.
I think the problem comes from how Twilight has emphasized that Spike is a baby dragon.
The ones we saw in Dragon Quest were still only teenagers after all.
It's...pretty creepy, actually. If dragons are as long-lived as the show suggests, and stipulating that Spike is 16-ish (still below age-of-consent in 18 states), then he's lived, what, 1 or 2 percent of his life? To the above commenter who mentioned the teenage dragons: Spike is much smaller than they, and is still wingless. And as for being treated as an equal by the Mane Six, you don't rub your equal's head while baby-talking to him.
Mentally, he's pretty mature. Emotionally, not quite. Physically, not even close.
So...yeah. Kinda creepy.
Fuck those who said is a crime spike has a hard time by trying to get
rarity in love with him if twilight fell in love for spike well that's acceptable twilight x spike forever
Miss Butterscotch, I am an avid Sparity supporter, but I for one am also a big time supporter of Spilight. There is no crime in this whole matter. Hell, you should see how some of the Anti-Sparity supporters react.
Spike is more of an adopted brother if anyone asks me since Twilight hatched him from his egg from a young age.
Nonetheless, the series clearly states that he is a BABY dragon. Not an adolescent dragon, not a teenage dragon, and certainly not an adult dragon, a baby. It doesn't matter how old he is, because in dragon years he's not old enough.
Hear that noise? It's Princess Celestia crying her royal tears. Because of you.
163633 Still, if you're going to be tackling a sticky pairing like this, it needs to be said outright, in the story, that this is the case. Otherwise, confusion crops up.
I'm not really in the business of justifying my work to people. It always seems kind of defensive to me. I only wrote this blog post to try and head-off the drama that was threatening to overwhelm the story's comment section, and failed spectacularly.
Anyway, the story is exactly what it says on the can, and if someone reads it and gets offended, well.... perhaps they're the sort of person who actively seeks out that response for their own reasons. If that's the case, then, I wish them god-speed on their exciting and drama-filled journey through life.
EDIT: added italics on Varanus' comment.
I never understood the controversy with age difference. My father is 12 years older than my mother, so when my father was 21 my mother was 9 years old.
The difference is that they married when mom was 22 and he was 34, So yeah I don't really feel offended or disturbed by age differences.
163868
Ergh. Canada has some interesting laws on the subject. Technically, it's illegal for me to read a story where a 16 year old cartoon dragon and a 24 year old cartoon mare get freaky. Now, if you say that Spike is 2 years older, it's just fine.
(And if (human, but possibly not dragon and mare) Spike and Twilight were having happy fun time in my guest room, that would be legal too, as long as I didn't take pictures or write about it. Go figure.) Something to keep in mind for your Canadian fans.
[tangent] I have absolutely no idea how things work out in versions of Equestria where ponies mature faster than humans. For all I know, reading about the Cakes might be illegal in that case.
[/tangent]
He had dirty dreams and knew how to touch a mare, I assumed he was old enough.
Write what you want, and don't let anyone else convince you otherwise.
163868
I would not worry about it, people are going to complain no matter what.
Besides if we are going to take Human Laws into account would this file under bestiality anyway?
Personally though I do think Spike is underage, He's life span is that of hundreds of years where (and I can only assume) Twilights might not even get to 100. I really think that spike probably hasn't hit the "puberty" level for dragons yet.
But like we can all agree this is a Fan Fiction!
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And for those that don't enjoy the pairing, don't read it. That's just simply it.
With all due respect, your Pinkie Pie x Spike fic explicitly stated that the Pinkie Pie x Spike relationship was underage and illegal, that was the entire thrust of the story. Given that, of course people will assume that this Twilight x Spike fic is similarly underage and illegal since there is nothing there to say otherwise.
Also (not sure if this is the law where you are) but while the age of consent is 16, the age of consent where one party is vulnerable and/or in a position of power (ie student/teacher) is 18.
Of course as the writer you get to make the rules and set the world. If you want to state that the characters are all adult, then that works. But you actually need to state this, because in canon, Spike is a 'baby' and without knowing anything else they will assume the defualt. Even if you need to start a story with Spike opening his 18th birthday card, at least people will know that this is a consensual relationship and that pedophilia is not being condoned.
Oh My... controversy on a cartoon fanfic with shipping...
I don't like TwilightXSpike much, but I can read and enjoy a cute story about those two. Honestly there are weirder/freakier shippings out there, and me liking a shipping has nothing to do with controversy. My least favorite shipping is TwilightXBig Mac.
THANK YOU. People seem to keep forgetting how young Twi herself was when she hatched Spike. >> In fact if anything I'd say she was younger than 8.
As for the story in question, I haven't read it yet, but it's right on top of my "Read Later" pile. :3
164004
Something you're overlooking. A baby dragon and a baby pony are going to be entirely separate things. Ponies normally live what, since we're considering them human replacements? 80-100 years? Granny Smith's at least 300, but I think that's a unique case. Dragons, as far as we can tell, are nigh-immortal. With a much larger lifespan, normally comes slower growth rate. Meaning Spike's likely to be considered a baby until or after Twilight grows old and dies.
However, he's gone through enough puberty to have physical attachment to Rarity, and is quite intelligent even if he generally acts childish. Despite his immature actions and pastimes he is assuredly mature enough to be consenting. And that is canon, my friend.