Say what?! · 3:35am Jul 19th, 2014
Dear FIMFic (and the nerdy community in general),
Two things.
Firstly, as I discovered late last night, one of the best moments in my life took place. TV Tropes, that website everyone loves to have a page on, mentioned my story. I know you're all preparing the generic response to it, but before you type it out, look at this: TV Tropes page on fandom created characters. As I'm sure you're all aware, the bat pony race (or Thestrals. EW!) are an entirely fandom created race of pony and the most popular one to come out of all these is ANGEL!!! CONFIRMED BY TV TROPES TO BE ONE OF THE TWO OFFICIAL NAMES OF THE MARE!!! I squeed so hard at that, I squealed. Like, way worse than Fluttershy ever did. A single silly idea I had almost two years ago has become the fandom's alter ego for the most popular bat pony conceived in MLP:FIM . I know it may just be a reference and doesn't really matter, but it feels so good to know I left a mark on this fandom (and a good one at that!)
Now for the bad part.
I'm sure you're all aware of Marvel, the second (and sometimes first) biggest company in comics. Spider-man, Iron Man, the Hulk, Wolverine, all of them are hallmarks in modern pop culture. However, there is one often less mentioned hero who is arguably the most powerful of them all. With his sometimes manly beard, his hammer of extraordinary power and weight and his nearly impossibly chiseled physique, there is The Mighty Thor, the true god among men in Marvel. The man is virtually indestructable, the Superman of Marvel. He has beaten the Hulk, survived planet busting blasts and blows and has even killed some of the Guardians of the Galaxy, most notably Galactus, the Eater of Worlds. (totally not ripped word-for-word from Death Battle)
So, imagine my surprise when I heard that the manliest man in Marvel, and Norse Mythology to boot, is getting a reboot.
Into this.
You are not seeing things. Thor, the manliest of men in two separate worlds of mythos, is now canonically... a woman.
Just let that sink in.
I'm all for having more strong and central women in comics. Ms. Marvel, Storm, Rogue, Black Widow and Black Cat are all extremely great examples of wonderfully crafted strong women in Marvel, and that's not including Wonder Woman, Raven, Hawkgirl, Catwoman and the others from DC. They are just as interesting as the men in the universes are, if not more interesting (I'd read about Black Cat any day over Spider-man). Sure, they tend to be more fragile and are easy to critique as stereotypes for women (big boobs, skimpy/skintight outfit, usually seductive or sexualized ,ect), but they are pretty damn impressive by themselves for the feats they pull off.
So why take a character that has been male for almost 3000 years.... and turn him female?
I get that this should be no surprise to me. Internet Rule 63 (anything on the Internet has a gender-swapped version somewhere) makes for some fascinating stories here. The Mane 6 as stallions is one of my favorite themes to write about, not to mention the full blown popularity Conner Cogworth and Memeasaurus got by exploiting the genderswap, but let's not talk falsely and admit something here.
We are happy the Mane 6 are female and we want them to stay that way.
What Marvel has done to Thor is the equivalent of Hasbro officially turning Fluttershy or Pinkie Pie into a stallion. One of the two most unmistakably girly characters is gender-swapped CANONICALLY. Your waifu poofs into a bro and Hasbro says it's permanent.
While I'm sure you all have your own opinions on Thor and Rule 63 in general, I do not easily welcome the change. Sure it will be cool to see Thor become the queen of the Valkyries, but he had a sister in Norse Mythology to fill that roll. Anyone remember Freyja? You know, his sister who he impersonated to kill the King of the Goblins? Yeah, why do this to The Mighty Thor, the archetype of men, when there already is the same archetype for women that has been around for 3000 YEARS?
Anyway, please do not hesitate to comment on this. I would love a lively comic book conversation to take place.
Regards,
C.B.
PS: Don't believe me? Read it for yourself. http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/15/5901621/marvels-thor-is-now-a-woman
The thor thing, eh, just a mistake, but eh, i guess they needed a unique flying brick, as it goes to try for a new audience to reach in?
This might take a while getting used to for me, though I'm not really upset about Thor being a woman in the canon universe. I'll let that sink in, but Marvel can tread lightly if they don't make any mistakes with this.
2298630
I'm already foreseeing some terribly sexual comment from Loki that will utterly ruin his and Thor's relationship.
... Thor is not getting a reboot. Thor is not "becoming" a woman.
Thor Odinson is going to become unworthy of Mjolnir, and a new person -- a woman -- who is worthy will be taking up the hammer and thus the mantle of the God of Thunder.
It's not even the first time this has happened. Beta Ray Bill (an alien) has wielded Mjolnir. Eric Masterson (Thunderstrike) has been Thor. STORM has wielded Mjolnir.
2298633 This is Loki we're talking about I would not be surprised in the slightest.
2298635
I know this, but according to the interview, she IS Thor. The man we know as Thor did not lift the hammer and I get that, but why a woman?
Spider-man, Captain America and Iron Man also wielded Mjolnir, so Marvel has downplayed the requirement to lift the most powerful weapon in the galaxy already.
2298643
They're just saying that she's not a sidekick or something. She's got the real Mjolnir and she will be calling herself Thor. Thor -- the dude -- isn't going anywhere, and will still be in comics. He's pictured without Mjolnir on comic solicits.
It was not a statement of retcon. It was a statement of "don't diminish this character, she's the headliner."
2298650
Sounds pretty permanent, like a retcon, to me.
that is mjolnir's enchantment inscribed on its side. i know that it states that "he", but think about it. the enchantment is supposed to be created in the olden' times, back when it was believed that guys were superior to women in every which way. if it was created in modern times, i'm sure that there wouldn't be much of a specification on the sex and would be possibly be "they" instead of "he", then it would stand to reason that a women would be able to use it, as long as she is deemed worthy by it. keeping that in mind as well, this rendition of thor wouldn't seem that much of an odd thing.
i dunno. just something that i have been thinking about since i've first heard about this whole thing. i know that comic lovers will take to arms, and fans of the movies possibly the same, but it doesn't seem all that impossible for me for it to happen.
Nice going there with the TV tropes... Thor's retcon/gender-swap is just plain weird I find. I'm not invested in comics, but that's still plain weird.
2298668
The argument isn't that it's wrong for a woman to wield Mjolnir, it's the fact this flies in the face of what Thor represents. Thor is man: he eats excessively, fights impossible battles, is arrogant and stupid, brash and just loves having a good drink at the end of the day.
By turning him into a woman, what is accomplished for Thor's already ingrained image? Uprooting it after playing off it for years doesn't make sense.
2298657 You're reading too much into it. Check the solicits. Thor Odinson still exists. The woman that's taking his place for now is someone Thir knows. Her identity is being treated like a big mystery.
Reread the article. They specifically say that Thor Odinson has been found unworthy.
Well, you can't say this won't make the Loki-Thor relationship more...interesting. But really, between this and turning Captain America African-American, just feels like Marvel's justifying to paint themselves all feminist and for race-equality. That in itself isn't a bad thing, but simply changing the gender and the skin tone of two iconic characters feels very half-hearted and fake, like women's power/race equality is the newest hot trend out there, and Marvel needs to cash in on it. If they really cared about representation of races and gender in comics and the media, they would have expanded on the characters they currently have or create new ones. Why not try to bring back Luke Cage or start a new X-Men series focused on Rouge instead of Wolverine?
The answer, of course, is extremely depressing; these ideas won't sell. As a whole, comic book buyers care more about the many adventures of invincible Wolverine than Rouge. Not many people have even heard of Cage, but you can bet your ass they've heard of the Cap and of Thor. Altering those characters ensures that Marvel receives plenty of publicity and sales and appears to support the empowerment of women and the equality of all people regardless of race.
IIRC, a friend told me this isn't the first time Marvel turned Thor female. This is just a publicity stunt, he'll be back to normal in a few months like last time.
Also, congrats on having achieved godlike fandom status for Angel having become a fandom standard.
2298679
He's been found unworthy a lot of other times too, but they didn't outright replace him before. His whole story is to maintain his right to wield Mjolnir, a struggle men identify with because they struggle to keep their worth every day.
By replacing him at all, it essentially means that even a god... no, wait; MAN will never succeed in his endeavors to keep his worth. It's the ultimate insult to Thor and men in general.
It's not quite thor is being turned into a girl the current Thor is losing the right to the hammer a it's being given to a woman, for how long who knows, but this isn't really just random R63'ing Thor. While it is his name It's also his title.
2298678
i see your point there. sure, he is all of what you said, but the same could possibly be said for a select few female asgardians. heck, just look at lady sith (i know i mispelled her name). she is on par with each of the warriors three and could possibly take on thor in an all out spar match if ever given the choice. the same could be said about the valkyries.
also, i don't think the new thor is the same one we all know. apparently, it's a completely different character who just happens to be female and who also just happens to have the name of "thor". don't know who would call their daughter that though. just seems odd.
2298687 Er, they absolutely have replaced him before. Eric Masterson, aka Thunderstrike, was Thor for a while in the 90s. He headlined the comic and used the name.
Female Thor fits Norse mythology a whole hell of a lot better than Beta Ray Bill.
And God bless Beta Ray Bill.
i would have liked that marvel instead of retconning or whatever a main character, they would put the time and effort into existing female characters. for the norse characters there's sif and valkyrie, what happens to them they suddenly become dudes?
oh and did you see they made the captain black? i'm on for equality and all but it's the same with thor(es?) why not invest in existing characters?
well, I would be annoyed by the Thor thing if they were actually turning Thor into a woman, like actual genderswapping, but from what I've heard the story line sounds interesting. Thor (the current one) loses his right to wield the mighty Mjolnir, therefore losing the power and title of Thor and a woman picking it up and, as the inscription of "Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall control all the powers of Thor" states, becoming the new Thor while the old one becomes a rugged wanderer with an axe.
(I apologize if this was covered in the post or one of the preceding comments, as I kinda just skimmed.)
Congrats on the TV tropes addition, you deserve it!
As for Thor, I think my view can be summed up by my opinions of fimfiction and mlp. I believe the reason that there are so many bronies is because the characters are not written solely as mares; I'm never thinking about the gender of the characters while watching the show, unless love is central to the story.
While the novelty of R63'ing a character is fun for changing the relationships between other members of the cast, the character should be defined by their personality, achievements. This is also why I also accept shipping of same gendered characters in fimfiction, because I see them as just two characters.
If they plan on just making a Thor a female, but keeping his character the same, it just seems like an attempt to sell copies, which is good for introducing new audiences periodically. They should just be careful about relying on retconing for sales.
I don't see the big deal. Not enough heroes have vaginas imho. It's part of what makes MLP so interesting.
It seems that people interests are defined by stages in their lives where they were exposed to certain things. Like, for instance, that once special X-mas where someone's mom bought them a NES, and they became a gamer. I never had that moment with comics, and yeah like a lot of people say... they're weird.
But weird isn't bad, and honestly some of the stuff my friends tell me about comics beat this by ten thousand miles. I've never really thought of Thor as interesting, or overly manly. I couldn't, and still can't. The style of these superheros has them ALL looking 'manly' with muscles on top of their muscles. I don't see that as worthwhile descriptive trait, not when he's surrounded by other peers that are more interesting, yet equally manly. This will be good, and it just another reason Marvel is whooping DC's ass.
And, as Joss Whedon put it... "A female Thor? What the Hell makes them think that will be cool?"
pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsmvt7cIEAAebXu.jpg
Nothing on Thor, but I will say that I never understood TV Tropes. So somebody makes an article about something that is currently popular, and will be forgotten at some point. Also why add fan made stuff into it when they will be forgotten the fastest? Never saw a point in it, but that is just me.
Technically Thor is staying a dude. That's going to be a new wielder who will inherit the name of Thor. Old Thor will be back later.
Also, Loki's been female before, as well as Deadpool. Ms Marvel's been a guy, most other heroes have genderswaped versions anyway. Thor's just the latest in line. Big whoop if Mjolnir's wielder doesn't have a penis. Also, if Beta Ray Bill could wield it, why not her? New wielders aren't unknown in Marvel lore.
2298657 It's probably going to be about as permanent as the death of Captain America...or Doctor Octavius becoming the Superior Spider-Man...or any other major shakeup that comic writers will toss out and play with for a few months before returning to the good old status-quo.
So now Thor is the manliest of women.
The Thor thing won't last for a year. Probably less than 6 months. In other news, we get a new Captain America!
pbs.twimg.com/media/Bst7rv7CAAAn15W.jpg
Ignoring the bit about Thor that I only mildly care about, I cannot help but be fairly irritated that the tropes pages credits A Tryst at Midnight as the source of the Midnight Blossom name. I'm 99% certain that that name comes straight from the original artist of the character, Equestria-Prevails.
Just give her a beard and we'll be fine.
damn gj you will be forever remembered.........WAIT HAT THOR IS NOW A GIRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
So, the mantle of Thor is going to be taken up by a woman, but the actual Thor is going to still exist just hangin' out. Given that Thor's powers stem from Mjolnir, and anyone of notable good character can use Mjolnir, and how comics have a tendency to create female versions of popular supers (although Marvel less so than DC), I'm surprised this is just happening NOW instead of quite some time ago. Especially since it's not like she'd be the first to non-Thor person to lift Mjolnir. Captain America did it, among others. And this is only as permanent as Thor's writer's whims. Eventually, Thor will be back to status quo just like every other hero ever in the history of everything.
Also, superheroism being less of a club exclusively for white boys sounds fine by me.
2298774 He is an existing character. The new cap is Samuel Wilson, The Falcon. He was in the new Cap movie and everything.
Last time Cap was indisposed, Bucky and Hawneye both covered. Before that it was US Agent.
Dn't Asgardians gender flip all the time anyway? In Norse mythology, that is. Especially Loki. Hell, Loki once became a Mare for a year or so and got laid
They aren't 'turning him into a woman'. Thor is still Thor, the hammer is just being passed on to another worthy user. Who so happens to be a woman. Honestly, if you wanna be more logical, then it should be a new Goddess of Thunder, because Thor is not a title.
What I don't get id why they couldn't have just made a brand new series starring Lady Siv. I don't know much about the comic book canon, all I've seen is the movies and some cartoons. But from what I've seen of Siv in the Thor movies and in Marvels Agents of Shield, I would love to see her developed more.
Thor didn't get a sex change. A woman now possesses the power of Thor and dons similar armor.
Oh come on, a girl beating the living shite out of bad guys with a hammer? Who can honestly say that isn't appealing? I know that Thor is a bad-ass and we all like to see him stay that way, but would this not be awesome to see (if not a little arousing)?
I miss the Frog of Thunder....
It must be pretty awesome knowing your a big part in one of the best things to be created in the fandom. Its about damn time you finally got some recognition.
Iknow that this should shock me more than i am but knowing a bit about actual norse mythology and that the fact norse mythology Thor has dressed in drag
2298777 let just hope that this dosent turn into marvel equivlants of D.C act of god storyline