Fanfiction Reading Update: Twyrant's Kingdom Special · 1:08pm Jul 15th, 2014
Advisory: Contains unmarked spoilers to the fanfics Tyrant, Hope?, Miasma, The Ultimate Alicorn, and Queen Twilight Sparkle.
As an administrator for the Tyrant Sparkle group, it has been my honor to be an official judge over their recent Twyrant's Kingdom contest. The central theme of the contest is Twilight using her combined princess Super Saiyen power to not just defeat Tirek, but take over everything. For the oneshots category that will be judged first, stories are judged on a standard 1-10 scale. The rating system employed is as follows, keep in mind this is slightly different from a normal 10 scale:
Ten Stars - [Insert superlative here] story. These stories are so rare and of such high quality that only one or two of these stories may be produced per year per given genre. These stories have the power to change your life (one of these made me a fan of MLP).
Nine Stars - Incredible story. These are your favorite stories of all time. Instant classics. It has a minor inperfection of exposition and descriptions of travel are not entwined enough with entertainment to keep me bombarded with quality. Minor intermissions between epic feats of complexity and quality.
Eight Stars - Excellent story. This is the top tier of stories, probably more interesting and engaging than any enormous budget blockbuster movie can hope to be. These dazzle you with the genius of imagery and its rapid fire complex story.
Seven Stars - Great Story. These are the gems you know are out there and were hoping to find. They have minor flaws but are well above average. They have complex immersive imagery and plot.
Six stars - Good Story. These are the bread and butter of stories. They make you smile or think. They have their flaws but by no means do you regret reading it.
Five stars - Fine Story. An enjoyable story. Noticeable detracting flaws but still enjoyable.
Four stars - Average Story. The story did not waste your time. Major flaws but you can still find some enjoyment.
Three Stars - Below average story. You would have rather done something else. A few sparks of cleverness.
Two Stars - Poor. An annoying attempt at literature. Little to no attempts at quality.
One Star - Crap.
Zero Stars – Unintelligible.
Now, onwards to the five fics in the contest.
Tyrant was written as a deconstruction/commentary on the “evil!Twilight” genre itself. The story tells of six rebels who, after a decade long civil war, have succeeded in defeating the always inept Royal Guard and are prepared to kill the Tyrant Sparkle who choose the strategically and logically sound “keep the power” option over “save the mane five” a decade earlier, resulting in the princesses remaining in Tartarus, revenge ideas bubbling up, and a civil war.
As someone who has consumed a large amount of “evil!Twilight” fics, as a deconstruction, it stumbles. Many of the common tropes and cliches that evil!Twilight fics live and breath off of—like her learning dark magic, getting corrupted, or being betrayed—are no where to be found. The flaw is that the story is a post-takeover story. Few “evil!Twilight” stories take place after her conquest, and those that do almost never focus on her and instead the world she's created.
The heart of the deconstruction is supposed to be Twilight's morality and her steadfast “good” alinement. The author firmly expresses the belief that Twilight could never do evil—an idea I don't agree with but is moot to the story itself. Instead of presenting a scenario in which Twilight encounters one of those common “temptations” so often seen near the beginning of “evil!Twilight” fics and she rejects it outright, the story takes the approach of her always being good and never really presenting an actual deconstruction of the material it's opposed to.
From a non-deconstructive analysis, the story sags in it's later half. The confrontation between Twilight and the rebels is a traditional filibuster on Twilight's part, with a speech that both Picard and Kirk would nod in approval at. The motivations of the rebels are also headscratching. Why is Fleur or Zipporwhill (the filly that Fluttershy and company sang for in Filli Vanilli) there? Why would they join up in defeating Twilight when they had nothing to do with the Mane Six?
Unfortunately, the story takes a very tight approach to its background. No context or information is given for the rebels. The story makes the classic rebellion mistake of not bothering with figuring out a sun/moon replacement—another missed deconstruction opportunity. Of equal issue is the question of how things could have possibly come to where they did. A ten year long civil war usually requires a lot of pent up issues to occur and yet if Twilight was really as fair and kind as ever there's little chance a rebellion could have gotten farther than the outskirts of Ponyville without everyone laughing at them.
TL;DR: While a decent oneshot—decent enough for me to upvote—the issues with it's deconstructive nature and the poorly implemented rebels drags the story down. Tyrant receives a final score of:
**** (4 stars).
Whereas Tyrant took place years after the Tirek's defeat, Hope takes place during Twilight's. After Tirek holds up his Card Carrying Villain membership card and kills the Mane Five, Twilight kills him—and half of Equestria—with a death beam. In despair, she tries to kill herself, fails, and realizes her true power.
Hope? uses a very “flowery” method of narration and storytelling and it's one I've never been a huge fan of. Still, the story's structure and plot is well done. Just as with Tyrant, background detail is very scarce and what is given is only just what is needed. While this allows the story to tighten up and focus on its main point, it also plants the fatal seed of every grimdark fanfic: reader doubt.
As a general rule, I've found the darker a story is, the more I try to “poke holes” in it—try and find discrepancies and threads out of place that could unravel the whole story. It seems to hold true. An error in a comedy fic is more easily overlooked than one in a darkfic. It's something of a coping mechanism for those dreary endings that make you sigh with regret at the whole reading endeavor.
The darkness of Hope? is greatly dampened by both it's shortness and lack of detail. It's a snapshot of a world gone to hell in a handbasket and so it's a much easier grimdark pill to swallow than a 100k odyssey of death and despair. But, it's still a dark fic and those loose threads still poke out.
The largest is the matter of the princesses. Tirek never killed them—only locked them in Tarturas—and, just like with Tyrant, the matter of their fate is ignored. The ending of the story, strongly hint that it's nothing more than a propaganda piece for Empress Twilight's Empire—which can cast doubt on the accuracy of the whole fic. Maybe Tirek didn't do anything and Twilight ousted the princesses herself and took over. Even so, the ignorance of the princesses is still fairly noticeable.
That ending also feels somewhat weak. As if it were almost tacked on. There's a great deal of potential in the unreliable narrator angle—even more so for a story such as this that is presenting the origin of an empire—but that potential seems lost in the fic, with little in the way of build up, or foreshadowing to the eventual “reveal” at the end.
TL;DR: While it does have some grimdark induced nitpicky issues and the ending lost a lot of it's potential it could have had, the story still presents a nice “evil!Twilight” origin plot wrapped in an “artsy” writing style.
****** (6 stars).
If Hope? gave a taste of a grimdark world, Miasma provides an all you can eat buffet. Faced with near certain defeat at Tirek's hands, Twilight hears a voice promising her victory—and as is the case with every single evil!Twilight fic that has a disembodied voice in it—the result isn't what Twilight had hoped it to be.
Miasma seemingly goes down the grimdark checklist, being sure to make the story as bitter and unpleasant as possible. Everyone close to Twilight dies? Check. And I Must Scream? Double check. Nitpicking the plot as a coping mechanism? Triple check.
Once again, as appears to rapidly becoming a running theme with this contest, the princesses are forgotten. While the princesses never would play a large role in these kinds of oneshot plots, it still seems weird that they've been totally forgotten; especially for a story so bent on going as far into the grimdark abyss as possible. Leaving that small ray of hope alight is a little strange.
The “Twilight listens to a disembodied voice” is a staple and hallmark of many an “evil!Twilight” story and it always makes me scratch my head. Why would you ever listen to an unknown voice in your head? The story makes a decent attempt at patching that issue (you're about to die, what could possibly go wrong?), but the point is still extremely valid. It's not quite Twilight grabbing the idiot ball, but she still admires it from a distance.
The motivation of the Nightmare is pretty shallow—par for the grimdark oneshot course. Why do you want to take over? Because it's my birthright. O... kay, why do you want everyone to suffer in despair? ...Let me get back to you on that one. Evil just because never a good villain makes and only makes the whole reading experience that much more unpleasant.
While it may purely be a headcanon, the “Nightmare amplifies the desires of its host” is far more appealing and would have probably strengthened the story's plot and made it more entertaining. It could have dived into Twilight's psyche and ambitions—giving the story additional depth, maybe even fleshed out the Nightmare—at least given it something more than “I'm doing it for the angsty lulz,” and not checked off three quarters of the grimdark list—making the story a much more enjoyable read.
TL;DR: If it's a Standard Grimdark Oneshot® you're after, Miasma fills the niche just as good as any other; but, like any oneshot that relies on despair, thinly characterized villains, and the hopeless apathy that the plot carries, it leaves with a very bitter aftertaste.
*** (3 stars).
The shadow of the grimdark oneshot looms ever larger with The Ultimate Alicorn taking a more moderate stance than Miasma did. You know the plot by now: Twilight can't defeat Tirek, but instead of calling on a voice or incinerating him, she relies on continuity and retrieves the alicorn amulet only to return to Tirek renewing his Card Carrying Villain membership. After dealing with him, she deals with the rest of Equestria.
While being slightly less hopeless as the previous story, The Ultimate Alicorn still runs down the grimdark checklist, this time opting to take the Hope Spot approach and give a reasonable and fairly enjoyable experience up until the shit hits the fan and the story cannonballs into the grimdark abyss. It even checks off previously unchecked marks—those relating to gore and wins the award for “First Fanfic I've Read to Have Someone Drawn and Quartered.”
This story snaps the princesses running theme and wins that award while doing so. Twilight, now wearing her power hungry hat, simply decides to ignore the princesses in her desire to rule the whole of the country. It's not a complex reason, but it at least satisfies that question and provides a bonus of showing just how far off the slippery slope Twilight's jumped.
Still, as with any grimdark fic, that bitter taste ruins the fic. The “Tirek kills all of Twilight's friends” seems to be the catalyst in every fic so far. The coping mechanism thus now focuses squarely on him and his motivations for killing them. As was the case with the Nightmare, those motivations are as vapid as the Aral Sea is dry. He kills them to... piss off Twilight? That doesn't seem like a great strategy—especially when they still could be useful bargaining chips. It seems while Twilight's been able to avoid the idiot ball, Tirek simply can't resist the allure of the villain ball. Make no mistake—this isn't just a problem with The Ultimate Alicorn, but has permeated all the fics so far, it's only just now that I'm noticing it.
If there's one big weakness in the grimdark slide near the end it's the characterization of Twilight. There's a lot there that could be played and worked with—especially with her crying at the end—but, like with Hope?, that ending seems to not be as detailed or as fleshed out as it could have been.
Of particular note is Twilight's execution of the redshirt. Trxie's attempt at torturing Dash was believable because Trixie was already a bitch—the amulet only amplified that bitchiness, but Twilight simply isn't like that. Harkening back to Tyrant, Twilight being incapable of turning evil is absurd, but I need a good progression to make her being evil make sense. It needs to be a gradual slide.
I can buy that she'd eventually go off the deep end and start doing things even Palpatine would wince at, but I need to be shown that. Here, there's a vital two week long cutscene that skips over Twilight's grief and reasoning and as a result, it signifagantly weakens both Twilight's characterization and the ending of the story.
TL;DR: While being less bitter than Miasma, the rapid spiral into grimdark territory, coupled with a weak characterization of evil!Twilight dampens the story.
**** (4 stars).
Not to be outdone in the grimdark game, Queen Twilight Sparkle checks off the “sex” boxes that all other fics left untouched. Telling a post takeover plot, Twilight is now Empress of the Crystal Empire after Sombra and Chrysalis jointly whipped out the Deus Angst Machina on Equestria and carved it up.
Refreshingly, Tirek and his friend killing villain ball is no where to be found. In his stead, the tried and true go to villains for evil!Twilight fics make their appearance. While it's nice to see something unrelated to the Tirek angle, it's no where close to refreshing enough to purge that bitter taste that's lingered.
As it tells a grimdark plot, that coping mechanism makes it's final return. First up, there's the matter of Sombra and Chrysalis' takeover. Crystal dragons that can curbstomp, the two of them somehow teaming up—seriously, how the hell does something like that occur?--and it wouldn't be a grimdark warfic without the Royal Guard bumbling over themselves like the Three Stooges they are. All these make for a very unbelievable setup to the story. I can accept any one of them, but all of them? It just seems far too purposeful. Like only through the author's intervention would such a thing occur.
Speaking of intervention, the continual lack of any form of international community in fanfics continues to disappoint me. One would think Equestria being on the precipice of destruction—and with it control of the sun and moon—would make the griffons, zebra, and whatever other species someone can think up somewhat more inclined to get involved and team up against the obviously evil forces trying to take over. Such things like rationality and pragmatism don't fit a grimdark plot, though.
On the more structural front, the story is very fast paced, with Twilight running though several of her jobs as Empress before moving over to the story's conclusion—Sombra preparing to finally destroy Equestria while Twilight (hyperbolically) cums. While I'd rather a story be fast than agonizingly slow, it still isn't great and makes the events lose some of their meaning as it rapidly shifts from one scene to the next.
The sex angle seems underdeveloped. For a story with the mature and sex tags there's really not much of either. The truly disturbing nature of Twilight's decline into darkness—which can be summarized by her “wingboner” at winning another “Fanfic Draw and Quartering” award—isn't as fleshed out or developed as it could have been due to the fast paced nature of the story. There's something horribly unpleasant at seeing someone like her—our adorkable purple pony—getting turned on by ripping someone's limbs off but it's ruined by the quickness of the scene and lack of it being a “wham” point—it's just another grimdark scene in a grimdark fic. Apathy over what's happening very quickly sets in, as is bound to happen with most grimdark fics.
TL;DR: Another grimdark fic—this time incorporating some sex elements—is able to use a refreshing plot but is dampened by a fast pace and disbelieving story setup.
**** (4 stars).
It was fun reading and judging the stories in the oneshot category. Next up is the multichapter category, which won't be ready for another few months. To summarize: Tyrant (****), Hope? (******), Miasma (***), The Ultimate Alicorn (****), and Queen Twilight Sparkle (****).
TL;DR: Probability of [Grimdark] ending: 100%.
Jesus, none of these even made it past six. XD But looking back on The Ultimate Alicorn, I suppose you have a point indeed. However, I hope that you are going to at least give the sequel a chance, if you want to read it casually. So far, things are looking fairly good.
However, I'll turn this over to CV. He'll probably want to know what his story got.
I wanted to read some of these stories, but I have just never been able to understand Tyrant Twilight stories and it always ruins my enjoyment of them. I just don't see Twilight turning evil. Crazy, maybe. But crazy and evil are two completely separate things. And even if you include outside forces corrupting her, well, that doesn't really count does it? Hell, I'd go so far that as far as evil and evil magic is concerned, the show and related media itself has shown that Twilight is pretty uncorrectable. Its the same reason I don't usually like Tyrantlestia stories.
2287367
Ever read Twilight's Dollhouse?
2287386
I gave it a go once, it wasn't my kind of story.
Here's one, quite a bit less Grimdark. Still in the works yet though so who knows how it will turn out.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/186910/the-twilight-empire
2287436
Fair enough, sounded like it would be so I thought I'd mention it.
2287367
Literally, the reason you don't understand why Twilight would become a tyrant is WHY people do it. It is outside the box, something that wouldn't normally happen unless you make a damn good reason for it.
2287506
I get that, I do. I even understood from at least an academic stand point peoples desire to see an evil Celestia as well. But that doesn't make it make any more sense. There are rules when writing fanfics defined by the established characters of the show. That's why the phrase "out of character" has such a negative connotation. You're supposed to tell your story within the guidelines. Sure, the lines can change as a result of your story, but they can only go so far. The bigger it is, the harder the justification and the longer I feel the story would need to be in order to believably justify it. TyrantTwi oneshot? No way, and I think that's why all these stories failed with me: they were starting from a weakened position.
In fact, the only Tyrant Twilight stories I have been able to stomach have been ones where she was heavily influence by an outside force, and even then it strains my suspension of disbelief.
2287518
Meh, I don't really adhere to the rather degraded idea of OOC. What you see as OOC, I see as character growth. Characters are EASILY able to do a 180 with enough time or outside force. In the case of the only story I read on this list, the Alicorn Amulet is a very easy thing to choose.
Sure, when writing a story, you shouldn't make Twilight say, "Go kill yourself, you filthy casual!" without something truly prompting her to do so. But let's say there is a story where thousands of years have taken place before where we are reading. I would think that in that time, someone would change. Why do you think that Tyrantlestia is so popular? Because she could easily have change quite vastly from when she first banished Luna, and who is there to say that she didn't?
No one.
2287525
That was what I was trying to say.
If you want to have Twilight turn evil, her of all characters is going to take a lot of work. And I don't think you quite understand what OoC means. OoC doesn't apply to character growth, it applies to characters making decisions counter to their personality in the absence of character growth.
Also, no. I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree with you. The reason OoC exists is because as fanfic writers, we're writing in a world with per-existing characters. People who read fanfics do so under the assumption that you are going to stay true to the characters of the show that drew them here. That means we have an obligation to stay within the bounds of a characters personality, otherwise you are being dishonest with your audience. You can write a story such that what is an acceptable action for your character changes, but that is, as I said, changing where the lines are, not stepping over them. Ooc is and always will be a terrible thing in fanfics.
Hell, remove the fanfic aspect. Imagine if you wrote the first half of a book, went away and then a year later came back, resumed writing it, and started having the characters making choices the first half of the book said they wouldn't, without thorough justification....
Would that be a good book?
2287539
See, it's this odd worship of keeping characters in character NO MATTER WHAT that really, really kills things. Yes, you have a point. We should keep them in character at all times. But that is if we WANT to. Just like Faust when she first wrote up the characters for MLP, we have free reign to do as we please with these characters.
Of course, everything has to make sense for anyone to really give a passing glance at your story.
And that's the point I'm trying to get across here. Stop trying to do your best to keep characters within their character NO MATTER WHAT. If the story requires that Twilight become a tyrant, then do so. As long as it makes sense, then what problem is there? And as I AND you have said, time and certain things can change someone's character.
But here's the kicker that I don't get: is it because YOU don't think it is right for Twilight to become a tyrant, or is it because the story doesn't give a good enough reason for it?
Because if it is the former, then you really (to be put bluntly) have no say. If it is the latter, then we'll agree all day on this.
2287367 I'll copy and paste what I wrote before about the Tyrant Sparkle group:
2288007
A couple definitions (from http://www.thefreedictionary.com).
Tyrant: A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner.
Cruel: Disposed to inflict pain or suffering.
So, no. Twilight cannot be a Tyrant without being evil. If that isn't the intent of Tyrant Sparkle fics then they are very poorly named.
2290032 Harshness and cruelty do not imply intrinsic evilness.
2290034
If you don't consider a disposition towards inflicting pain or suffering to be evil then I'm not sure I want to be around you. That literally means having a personality that likes causing others pain. How is that anything but evil, at least according to western culture?
2290402 Snape from Harry Potter was cruel and harsh. Was he evil? Drill sergeants are cruel and harsh. Are they evil? Judges may seem cruel and hash from the point of view of someone but that does not mean they are evil. In fact someone may seem evil while in reality they are not.
Evilness I daresay is rarely accompanied by obvious or direct cruelty in the real world. I would consider many politicians to be evil but in the U.S. incumbents are reelected at a rate of 90% and make themselves look to be kind, compassionate people.
Judging someone to be evil because of surface cruelty or harshness seems to be what a child would do, not what an experienced empathetic person would rush to conclude.
2290708
None of your examples really hold up...well, except for the Snape one, I cant comment on Snape, haven't read the books or seen the movies in ages. Drill Sargents? They aren't cruel. Remember what I said "Disposed to inflict pain or suffering". Drill Sargents are not disposed to inflict pain or suffering. Those are unavoidable side effects of their true purpose: to train soldiers. And you better believe if there was a painless way to train soldiers, that they'd use it. And by you're own admission judges are only considered cruel by those with biased opinions, that hardly counts. A Judges role is one of metering justice, by the very definition of a judge, a person cannot be hurt by a judges actions unless they had hurt someone else and even then the existence of non-lethal punishments, like jail time, fines or community service shows a desire to balance the scales without causing too much suffering.
Look at the definition of cruelty again. A DISPOSITION to cause pain. A surface act of cruelty is an oxymoron. Cruelty refers to they're disposition, not their actions. That doesn't mean that they did a thing that caused pain, it means their personality is such that they like causing pain or at the very least don't have negative connotations. A person could technically be cruel even if they never commit an act that causes someone pain, if they have the predilection to cause pain but are never put in the position to act on it. Similarly I can cause someone pain, and not be cruel if I didn't mean to or other extenuating circumstances. Take the act of killing someone. Killing them to take their things is cruel. Killing them to stop them from killing a loved one isn't.
You know what? I'm done. My first reply to you said everything I need to, and all this conversation has been is arguing minute semantics that don't actually counter what I said in the beginning. Every single post of mine has gotten longer as I try to explain the same concepts. However, for convenience, I will summarize. The facts are these:
By your own admission, the stories in your group are about Twilight being a TYRANT. If not, the group is poorly named. If so, she is evil. This is because the definition of Tyrant includes acting cruelly. Cruelty is defined as a disposition towards inflicting pain. By western cultural norms, we have decided that anyone who's personality is such that they like inflicting pain on others, that is evil.
Therefor, Tyrant Twilight is evil.
Reply if you want, I wont reply back.
2290903
Really? If you're going to use a definition argument then use a legitimate dictionary. This is from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. (Should be in the reference section of your nearest library)
So your argument is invalid
2288007
I'd mention that in the group
2290903
I still disagree with you that Tyrant Sparkle implies Evil Twilight. However, I do agree that continued arguing will probably not do either of us good.
2290032
Okay I just looked at the dictionary you used and you did not even include the number 1 definition of tyrant
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tyrant
I'm sorry, but when people manipulate information without even trying to hide the fact I get pissed. Even if it was unintentional
2291623
God fucking dammit this is the argument that won't die. The only reason I'm responding to this is you insinuated I would twist facts for my own gain, and I take great offense to that. I chose that particular definition because I felt it was the most representative of the many definitions I looked at, and as that was my first reply to ymom2 before my replies got longer, I didn't want to list them all. But here they are, you tell me if the one I chose doesn't feel representative.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Tyrant+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=LfjFU8HLEsuN8Qfvk4DABA
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tyrant
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tyrant
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tyrant
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyrant
Hell, I could probably find more if you want. So, no, I don't feel like I was manipulating information. Now, please, for the love of god, everyone stop. Every time I finish an argument with one person, another starts up, and I have just stopped caring. The only reason I responded to this one is that I took that bit about manipulating information personally, but I've defended myself now, and I'm all out of fucks to give on this issue.
2292619
You may have not realized it, but by omitting one of the official definitions you did twist the information to your liking.
"an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution". There is nothing evil about that definition. Potential for corruption yes, but not evil.
Anyways I would not have even mentioned it if not for this
Now look at the last part. You insinuated that by definition tyrants were evil, which they are not.
Anyways I'll shut up now and go read something, I just felt the need to clarify why I was ticked.
2293240
How is it you can accuse me of a selection bias and then go and do the same thing yourself. I chose that particular meaning because it was a representative of the average definition given. That is not a selection bias. That is me saying that this is the most average definition. I even gave you all of my data when asked to prove it.
You have chosen a single definition from a single site, and yet somehow I'M the one making a mistake here?
Its an outlier, and all the other definitions shouldn't be thrown out because one definition is different.
If you remove entries which refer to Greece (which is etymologically where the word comes from, even if the accepted meaning has changed in that time) then by far the majority of definitions point towards a tyrant displaying behaviors that western society deems evil.
Now, I am pissed. If you had just accepted that you were wrong, or just walked away, that would have been fine. But NO, you had to double down and INSIST that I was twisting facts.
OFFICIAL? what does that even mean? I must have missed the time the entire English speaking world decided to get the definitions of English words from a single source, the same assholes who think a definition of literally should be virtually.
2293284 :
Yes you do have selection bias there. You stated an absolute in that sentence which means that all definitions have to match up with yours, not the majority of internet dictionaries. The way you are defending yourself is the way someone who said most tyrants were evil, not all tyrants would defend themselves.
Hell even if the dictionary you originally used only had definitions that implied tyrants were evil (they don't even have to outright say it) then the bias would be unnoticeable, but the very first definition listed on your original source implied absolutely nothing about evil.
And perhaps scholarly would have been a better word than official, but professors will take the definition in one of the dictionaries in the reference section at the library (and yes the dictionary I used was at my colleges library) over several internet dictionaries if they have different meanings listed.
Edit: Pm me if you want to continue this, but I don't think OP likes us overtaking his thread
2293325
I never claimed that all sources everywhere claimed that that was the case. But a majority of the definitions on a number of sites do, and when the consensus points to a certain answer, I think that's enough for me to use it. I'm not throwing my entire opinion out the window because of an OUTLIER, something you don't seem to address. You have only countered my argument with a single reference point.
What did you expect me to say? "Twilight cannot be a tyrant without being evil, well that's what the major opinion is but there are a couple sources that say differently. Still the major consensus is that a tyrant is evil. So yeah" is that what you want?
You're right, the site I linked did have a different definition first, but, once again, I must stress, because apparently I need to:
the middle one was chosen because it represented the group consensus
Hell, several of the sources DID have definitions that show that Tyrants are evil first, but I chose this one. Theoretically I could have chosen any of them and it would have had the same meaning. Why?
BECAUSE THE ONE I CHOSE IS THE AVERAGE.
It doesn't matter HOW good Merriam-Webster is, they are only a single data point, and you're right, in normal circumstances I WOULD just use it, or something else scholarly at hand, but when we're getting into a debate on semantics, you need to bring more to the table than just one example.
My argument is and always has been that in order to be a Tyrant, you must be evil. If you are an absolute ruler and not evil, you are not a tyrant, and that this is backed by the majority of definitions