Groups are not allowed to be opposed to any story and rightly so · 7:59pm Jun 11th, 2014
However...
Groups are an official entity, in some sense. It's not the business of the site folks to get in the middle of actions like that. So it is entirely right and proper that groups not be dedicated to opposition to a story. That makes sense.
However, grassroots opposition is a collection of individuals who stand as one. It's like a group without the stamp of approval from the administrators. If it's just people standing in unity, talking on each other's journals, supporting and promoting stories on the opposition, and doing other such activities outside of an official group context.
I'm not saying that I would necessarily join such a group if it was allowed to exist. But I am saying I am necessarily suggesting such a grassroots union. In opposition to what story? Naturally, Fall of Equestria.
There's plenty to oppose. Genocide-path discimination against a gender, uncontested mutilation (in this instance the amputation of healthy limbs against the will of the one being cut), physical mortification (the BURNING OFF of Cutie Marks), mental torture, physical torture (both to a degree that would bring a war crimes tribunal), and the molestation of foals. That's a heavy load of horse-puckey.
I'm hoping that more oppositional stories start coming up. I can't do it all myself, with all the other stories I'm doing. I would totally enthusiastically promote and trumpet other opposition stories. In fact, there's one out there whose name escapes me. It's HiE, and has a guy in armor killing a couple of caribou with a sword. We need more of that. A lot more.
Allow me to offer some suggestions for all those who want in on this, both social and literary.
First and most important, if you know the name of the creator of that rather nasty bit of dried stuff, don't mention it, don't confront them, don't do anything that might spread the word to someone that would be open and overbearing about opposition. That's not good. (This is from me; I dislike Kkat just as much but I don't do anything to her.) If you don't know, don't bother finding out. It doesn't matter in the slightest. Besides, according to a decent, level-headed and trustworthy fellow the creator is, in human terms, an okay person. They just SOUND like every MRA on the Internet, but that's accidental. On the Internet you sell your image alone, and people can only judge you by how it seems. Example: If all I ever wrote was stories about white unicorns killing zebra mares by noose, and got art to that effect, not only would people be justified in thinking ill of me, I would like to hope that I'd have the rationality to think ill of myself. I'd probably at least see some kind of counselor to work through issues of unconscious racism.
Secondly, do not, under any reasonable circumstance, vote-bomb stories. If you happen to see such a story, judge it on its own merits, vote in accordance with your feelings, and move on. You owe a story like that only silent disdain behind the screen.
Related to above, express dislike in a general sense. Ignore the author, explain opposition to the setting, mentioning the specific horrors it entails. Don't spam or flood. Be erudite, disdainfully aloof and dismissive of the very notion. Use poshness, polish, sophistication and withering intellectual commentary as a weapon.
When you find an opposition story, also be sure to judge on merits. Comment positively as deserved, don't artifically inflate the numbers. But perhaps consider a positive note about how such a subject is too rare and greatly appreciated.
Collect URLs and promote stories in your own journals. A union is only as strong as its unity. Such stories must be passed around and given a good audience. Get as many eyes to them as possible.
Write the occasional journal to reiterate opposition. Make offhanded comments in even tangentally related situations. Remember, Cato ended every speech with "Carthage must be destroyed." Eventually, Carthage was destroyed, even if they had Hannibal and his war elephants.
Thus for social suggestions. To literary.
Even if you're not a writer by your own estimation, it still might do to write a story or two about the subject. It's perfectly acceptable to have them be simple caribou-slaying fics. The horrible wretches don't half deserve it.
Make an effort to 'play up' or otherwise make clear the openly fascist implications and such. The caribou are a Nordic people (calling them the Northmen works) with delusions of being a master race who invaded a peaceful nation and instituted a campaign of genocide, as defined by the UN. Indeed, some mention could be made of Gregory Stanton's Eight Stages of Genocide, as the fallen Equestria is at stage six, in a perpetual holding pattern before seven (extermination) though if this whole lot was made by a PoMo/cultural relativist they may already be doing a bit of stage eight (denial). The Wikipedia article on Genocide is filled with information that would punch up any story that casts the caribou in the context that is most appropriate and correct (that of fascist monsters.)
Use lots of anti-fascist iconography. Describe the rebel forces as "the underground" to evoke the Free French, especially if you're writing about non-ponies (the zebras are paying Danegeld to the fascists and might be looked on as the Vichy; those who are fans of Diamond Dogs could postulate the Equestria-positive government is likewise in exile and they are run by a bribed collaborationist faction.) Use white roses as a symbol of opposition (to evoke the anti-fascist White Rose group of Germany). Have weapons that mean something, like hammers and sickles. Use a lot of working-class images (much of the support and collaboration looks to come from the highest of the bourgeoise.) Make references where possible to past actions and personalities (make a rebel a hairdresser or make much of hair products used in the fight to evoke Vidal Sassoon; if you have a town of your own making have a battle on Cable street that results in a decisive rebel victory; have slogans like "They will not pass.")
Use (or even overuse as needed) symbols of traditional Equestria which likely have been destroyed or desecrated. The dancing Celestia and Luna icon, and indeed any joined Lunisolar icons. The Elements of Harmony (the elements, not the bearers, who are apparently depicted as collaborators or slaves.) Gold and silver (the symbols of Celestia and Luna; the utilitarian, wartime version would be brass and steel, to represent the fact that refined things like jewelry made of precious metals must take a back seat to weapons of war composed of more martial metals.) Certain colors would make bold statements, such as white and midnight blue/dark purple to evoke the Princesses, or anything bright and pastel, which would be execrated by the hypermasculine and blood-obsessed Northmen. Even ordinary things from the old world that might not mean much on first blush take on revolutionary new meanings in the face of bigoted and primitive savages (desserts, including simple cakes and pies; fancy clothes; books; toys and games; even locations like common shops or schoolrooms.)
Never be afraid to add elements not found in the original. Recover the Elements and find new bearers, insert new characters not in the MLP or FoE canon, exterminate members of the FoE canon, put in elements of magic or technology that aren't quite settled (firearms, combat magic, mental shielding.) It's an opposition to a setting that runs on a potent cocktail of nonsenseoleum, liquid MarySueine, gasseous blather and bluster, and great heaping piles of grade Z horse-puckey. Nothing of value is lost of damaged if the whole rickety façade is altered.
Finally, and perhaps most vitally, remember this most important lesson. The setting is a monstrously fascist thing of misogyny (with attached misandry, which shatters irony meters on the other side of the world), hate, bigotry and the rather unclean looming elephant in the room of foal-fiddling. But always, always remember the writers are other human beings, just like you. I remember when this came in clearest for me; I'd been friends with this one artist for a good, long while, and finally I went to stay at his place for a few days as a vacation. Well, kind of. I actually helped him build a shed from scratch which produced an amusing anecdote about lumber and a truck with no brakes but I'll let that pass. I got to "peek in" on the world of an artist. And there's no magic. No mystery. No fairies at the bottom of the garden. I watched him (sometimes sullenly) slop down instant coffee at all hours of the day, helped him shop at the low end market, ate my share of processed foods and baked potatoes, and in general saw how it all worked. Then and there it all clicked. Just how overpoweringly "human" he really was. He may have seemed a very elusive figure, an artistic person with no more identity than the things he made, but suddenly all I could see was the man. The tired, flawed, funny, slacking, distracted, harried man. So look on the makers of Fall stories as some fellow in a supermarket, about to head home to make a TV dinner and watch a program. The ideas they may hold arousing (rather than dear) might be beyond the pale, but they are, as it is said, "just folks."
So then there it is. I propose that those of us who are less than fans of the aforementioned old guff form a very, very loose grassroots union, a support structure and mutual aid society dedicated to a particular proposition. We could help each other with notions and proofing, trade co-author favors or ideas, perhaps even clue one another in on art deals. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It couldn't hurt to stand as one and be a nice, united front.
What does everyone say?
What I think:
I'm sure people think the same of furries and their ilk (us, all of us). Hasn't stopped the faggotry yet, if you take that kind of holier than thou stance against foalcon or regular clop you're just going to get laughed at.
But I do think it's a good idea to tell people how shit their sub-fandom is, because it is really, really putridly shit from a purely amoral standpoint. Just don't tell them to stop or try and force them to do so.
Edit: Not sure what I'm saying there, but I dislike the idea of opposing fictional things based on moral arguments. That's retarded. Opposing something because it's shit and has a large gathering, then doing it better however? Yea I can get behind that.
Edit 2: I did read your suggested actions btw, I'm just commenting on it.
Gabriel, I love you, you're one of my favorite authors. That said, and I say this with all the kindness in the world: what the fuck are you on about?
I only read half of this post until it fully dawned on my that you were alluding to something, but I have no idea what it is.
Personally, I'm for this idea. Even if I defend the right of Fall of Equestria to exist, and I understand why it does, that doesn't mean that opposition shouldn't also exist. I actually have an idea I've been playing with, based on that, in the setting, Applejack and Rainbow Dash are the two of the mane six who are resistant slaves. The idea would involve them escaping with Twilight as a kidnapped hostage, and revealing that they resisted in part because they're in love. Seeing that love, the damage and trauma that the regime has caused them, and the lengths they'll go to in order to be together (including a suicide pact if they're recaptured, to avoid being "mind wiped") breaks Twilight's brainwashing and an existential crisis ensues for Twilight as she realizes what she's done.
(Plus, Jake the Army Guy would have to decide which he hates worse: Fall of Equestria or AppleDash.
)
I don't know if I'll ever write it, so if someone else likes the idea feel free to use it. Just let me know, and feel free to ask about any of my ideas for details.
That being said, it brings me to something else I want to address. Almost all of the opposition fics I've seen so far have featured a male protagonist, and a largely male resistance. While some of that is natural given that most writers here are male, and that the female population is supposed to be enslaved, it's still... iffy to me. To borrow Gabriel's example, if in this setting zebras were enslaved and all of the people fighting against that were white unicorns, you'd probably get a pretty colonialist vibe. Compared to the misogyny in the setting, complaining about White Knighting seems frivolous, but maybe some authors out there could just keep the idea in mind? There are resistant slaves in the setting who would be proud for the chance to fight against their torturers. (Including, according to Fall of Equestria canon: Luna, Applejack, Rainbow Dash, Spitfire, and Octavia. Other slaves like Rarity and Cheerilee are show to be serving willingly, but not brainwashed, simply taking the path of least resistance.)
But in general, I'm all for this.
So the site's people are going to come down hard on my policies?
And I'm a bit confused, what are you trying to get across here? Cause one moment you're talking about groups and social interaction and the next it's stories with caribou-killing. An explanation of what you're trying get across would be wonderful.
2199031
Inoppose on moral (and social and political) grounds because that is where the strongest "impetus" can come. By harnessing the power of my worldbuilding prowess I can see all the cracks in the setting. The righteous indignation creates the energy, then focusing my other skills on it adds thugs like asking critical questions about tax bases and infrastructure and what happens to the old.
Believe me, I've given this a lot of thought.
2199149
I'm saying there needs to be more opposition stories made that take Fall of Equestria to task, and that those who make them should have an informal union for cross-promotion, help and support. And I offered suggestions for writing that.
2199194
Starting at the bottom, I once saw Rarity in a Fall image before I knew what it was. She had been de-horned and her sister was somehow involved. The specifics escape me. If she's willing, I'm more sickened.
I can't speak for all but I can speak for me, as far as the male content of my "Etiamsi" stories goes. Those stories tend to be in the action-espionage mold. To that end the participants must be capable of blending into surroundings to accomplish a mission. Further, as Bad Apple/The Black Knight is the rebel leader he is going to get more focus. It's less conspicuous if male rebels in stolen armor infiltrate a facility. There's no gender agenda, I'm just writing it as Bad Apple/The Black Knight would do it. He's very Sun Tzu meets Michael Westen, with a dash of Neal Caffrey. Freed women or women who were never enslaved naturally fight. There's a large collection of then. But since the rebel forces are small they don't do "line up and charge" battles. They do lightning hit and run strikes. So there's not as much "traditional epic war" fodder, with massed armies clashing.
Plus I plan to introduce new Element bearers, all females. They'll fight the Fash hammer and tongs. Or hammer and sickle, actually.
Your ideas is wonderful. Convert one of the highest placed collaborators, and add some cute Appledash to the world.
I've considered doing something more interspecies. Like dissident Dogs escaping the collaborationist regime who find a dead Equestrian family with a live child. She could be raised by them, and years later (in a different oppositional world) have all the magic skills of a pony and all the knowledge of the Diamond Dogs.
Glad you're down for this. If you haven't yet (my brain is fried now) do look in on my Etiamsi stories.
2199555
No, no, let me clarify.
There is a site policy that no official Group can be made whose sole purpose is the opposition to or denigration of any particular story (this is usually defined as the famous ones, like Cupcakes, Past Sins, Fallout: Equestria, My Roommate is a Vampire or, in this case, Fall of Equestria.) That's a fine policy.
This journal is suggesting a grassroots, unofficial union, a mutual aid society of individuals who are all opposed to (and write stories in opposition to) Fall of Equestria. It would involve cross-promotions on journals, helping with ideas and proofreading, and offering support for those projects.
The rest of the journal was suggestions for writers of such and suggestions for those who wanted to get involved. Sorry it was unclear.
2199642
Indeed, it is pretty shit (and the concepts therein are also pretty rancid). When are you going to make that opposition group whose aim it is to create more fiction set in the universe it's against? (Joking aside I seriously love that idea).
2199813
2199642
Also I say that because there IS a loophole, you're not opposing a story so much as a fic-verse, essentially you could end up making the next anti-conversion barreto.
2199687
Yeah, Rarity is a red collar, so she's technically "willing," but there's clearly a difference between her and the truly brainwashed ones like Twilight and Fluttershy. Like I said, I get the feeling that she knows this is all wrong, but she's chosen the gilded cage in exchange for her self-respect. Tragic, but I can't really argue with it as an in character choice for her. I find the enthusiastic/brainwashed ones to be much creepier.
And in terms of the male/female thing, it's... sort of a Bechdel test thing. Not a big deal that any individual story does it, but when it seems to be all of them it gets a little weird. I have been reading, and enjoying, your Etiamsi stories. But even in espionage, women can infiltrate as slaves and either underground railroad or free other black collar slaves who will obviously be willing to fight. But like I said, the problem isn't really that your story doesn't focus on that, it's that none of the ones I've seen have focused on it...
Also, are you aware that Big Macintosh doesn't seem to be brainwashed? He acts the part of a slave-owner/male, and technically owns Applejack (whom he's beaten at least once, and apologized to) and Apple Bloom, but his focus seems to be solely on keeping his family together and avoiding anything that might get his sisters taken away or his family removed from Sweet Apple Acres. (Also, there hasn't been any incest implied there.)
It occurs to me that none of the Apples seem to have been brainwashed. Every Apple mare shown as a slave has been black collar, and I think Mac is the only Apple stallion who's been shown/implied. I wonder if that would be useful, or just something to mention, in your Etiasmi stories?
2199653
I don't understand what your end goal is. You want to create a network of people devoted to writing a specific kind of fic with concurrent themes in a universe you hate for reasons I don't understand and for a purpose that doesn't seem to exist.
2199900
The idea is to combat fic that says "this awful stuff is kind of cool" with fic that says "this awful stuff is awful." It's a method I've used in shipping for a long time-- you can talk until you're blue in the face about a subject and all the reasons you think about it like you do, but show people a story and they're like "oh, yeah, I get it now."
There's also some other stuff-- wanting to see the bad guys come to justice that the original setting won't give them. Wanting to prove to ourselves that these are only stories, and that stories can be written that make them better. And, in my case at least, some of the details about the setting are ripe with dramatic potential as a dark setting that the writers and artists don't seem interested or willing to address because they're too focused on Mary Sues and porn.
I think that Gabby's ultimate goal would have preferably been to tear Fall of Equestria out of existence, but that is realistically impossible. It's one of those things you can daydream as much as you want about, but it ain't gonna happen.
So, the actual end goal here now is to sway minds. As bookplayer said, to show that ""this awful stuff is kind of cool" with fic that says "this awful stuff is awful."" Change people's viewpoints. Show them what they fap to is morally and ethically wrong. Although... I don't know if that'll achieve much. The guys who got off on Fall of Equestria aren't the type to give a shit. It gets them off, therefore the moral high grounds be damned. But, there are some people who would turn an ear and listen to the message and that would be worth it. It's a small change, but it's worth it.
2199955
We're still not on the same page. I don't understand why anyone needs to combat anything. I've never really given it the time of day, but I understand that Fall of Equestria is some sort of hypersexual, hyperfetishy wish fulfillment smut, and I don't really see what's wrong with that, even if the themes don't even try to redeem at as a piece of "real" literature. It's just people enjoying what they enjoy, and we of all people should be accepting of that. Not us has fans of the show but us as perusers of pony porn. I don't know about you, but I'm massively fetishy, albeit not in quite the same ways as what I know of Fall of Equestria, and I know for a fact that Gabriel is good friends and a frequent collaborator with possibly the perviest person on the site. It just feels hypocritical and wrong to call people out for being more or differently pervy than we are.
(I still love you Gabriel, keep doing what you do. Proscenium Arch and Daring Done are some of my favorite fics on the site.)
I got to say, I'm in full agreement as I'd love to see stories that, quite frankly, rip this terribly written universe apart (and this goes for all the other universes too, even the ones I like).
2199825
It's interesting that the Apples are untouched. But it's like an ice cube in Hell. Sure it cools the burn but not much and not long.
One thing I never really showed in the stories so far is the other side of this persona/wartime identity. He always feels cool and suave as The Black Knight. He is still the unruffled conpony, acting put Michael Westen's truism that conme and spies are the same, just with different loyalties. He has to be. As Sun Tzu said, he must be mysterious and unreadable, both by the enemy and his own troops. If The Black Knight had a soundtrack, the first song (with a repeat down the tracklist) would be "Animal I have become." He is a man who had everything and lost it. Twice. His own mother stole his fortune, his family and his very name. He clawed his way through a period of being a bad guy to being a hero. He had a new family, a new life, a new hope for a better tomorrow. Then, all for the sake of some cheap sex, a monster stole everything. Down to his very world. Forget a fortune and a name, the whole world vanished. He is filled with the kind of rage that would power a division of berserkers, a detachment of heavy shock troops. But he has to keep it inside. He can't talk about it with anyone because he has a job to do. The job matters more than him. An Equestrian through and through. It's why he's gotten so good at what he does. He focused that burning heat on his goal. If logic and tactics steer the ship of his rebellion, his unmitigated fury is what's driving the engine.
You've just now inspired me to write a series on female rebels. I've had a few ideas inspired by music. I can try to do that concurrently with my series on stealing and re-empowering the Elements.
I wish you would write on this subject. You love Equestria as much as anyone else I know and worldbuild like the dickens. I think you'd bring great things to this proposition.
2199819
Were I not so timid I would. But I've put in a lot of time here. All my stories are here, many friends are here, and so on. I don't need the hairy eyeball from mods. That's whyI suggested this, which is in compliance with the rules.
2200178
You're right there. The Rancid filth is there to stay. It genuinely won't go away without the confluence of situations so unlikely as to be impossible. The idea is, yes, to move the neutrals. And to shift the strangling grip of the invisible hand. Get the neutrals to look down on the setting, kill the popularity and the supporters will get very quiet and very discreet.
2200182
For me it's the attempt at legitimization. "Listen to me spout this bull-puckey story that's contrived as hell but talks a lot about people who like being beaten. Please ignore the ones that don't and all the dead and mutilated children and elders." The universe might as well be made of pasteboard and cobwebs. It promotes a vision. Even if that's not the intent, that's what it does. It wants to be mighty, hence the art blitz. And it's a very skeevy world vision to promote, as noted in the journal. Take your pick between misogyny, genocide, systematic foal abuse, and possible general slaughter (they really don't have infrastructure or organized work groups, starvation has to be the outcome if there is even a slight disruption.)
And if you mean Bronystories, he is a good friend and a wonderful person. He may have made some bad stuff, but he made it on a lark. Scattershot. Futashy here, swinger Cakes there, even Blueblood was a largely undirected endeavor. He just did what the movie did with modifications. He didn't form a universe with purpose and ask that others follow like some mad Pied Piper. At best you could say he made a universe of Odd Jobs, which is a romantic comedy.
Glad you liked all those stories. If you liked "Daring Done" there's a sequel in the works, what happens after Daring and Ahuizotl disappear.
2200326
So, basically, you're really annoyed at people writing a "universe" of basic masturbation material, and attempting to pass it off as something more tangible and aloof?
I guess I understand thinking that's stupid (which it is), but I don't understand the call to arms against it. I still feel like it should be just be left alone and ignored, or at least just ridiculed publicly and privately.
It's occurred to me that what I've said may have sounded like a slight to you and/or Bronystories. I didn't mean it that way, I hope obviously so.
Also, please don't get me too hyped up about Daring Done, I'm already about to explode from all the video game news this week.
Gabby... to be honest, I'm not completely sold on your viewpoint. I'm caught in between the fence. On one hand, I think that if Fall of Equestria is just a fantasy, then it's a safe little playground for people to fulfill their sexual desires without actually hurting anyone. Heh, Bronystories rubbed off on me. But, on the other hand, I am actually disgusted by FOE from a moral standpoint. I guess taking the enslavement and mutilation to a national level rather than keeping it a private, isolated affair steps over the line even for what I find acceptable, even if it is from the safety of a fantasy playground for the FOE guys. So yeah, I'm torn by inner conflict just a bit. Completely investing in a side would be hypocritical because I view both with equal measure of validity. So... I don't really know. Internal conflict and stuff. Leaning to anti-FOE a bit more, though. I dunno
Ungh. This rather irks me to say. Your journal post does come off with a very holier-than-thou attitude. Like, more so than usual that I actually noticed it and could see it rippling and blaring violently. That simple fact bothered me. I'm somewhat tolerant of this kind of thing and it naturally clicks with me at times. I can get that you're very, very incensed, but I think that it's putting people off (almost put me off from reading the entire thing) and possibly confusing people who have to dig through all the emotion to find your reasoning. The emotion seems to grab at people more than the message is what I'm trying to get at.
Your proposed strategies are strong moves.
I think that "infiltrating" a story designed to be a kind of sleeper agent into the hands of FOE fans would be rather amusing. Maybe it starts off rather typical to draw people in, but gets in some messages in at the end.
I found you dropping of KKat's name to be rather intriguing. You don't like Fallout: Equestria, I take it?
Hmm... I kinda want to try plugging your Etiamsi series to Bad Horse. Honestly, Gabby, I don't think that most of your fanbase would be in agreement with you. I mean... there's a lot who follow because of your clop. And the numbers on your Etiamsi series ain't exactly painting a good picture, but they do show that there are people who are willing to hear you out. I think Bad Horse's followers might be more into your thing, especially with the poetry chapter. I mean, a good lot of the vocal ones he has are intellectuals. Do you have any particular journal entries you want looked at if that's the case?
Hmm... I'm gonna plug some BH stories to you.
Twenty Minutes is a Fallout: Equestria side story, at the start of the war. Don't want to spoil much, but it seems rather related to the message you want to convey, perhaps even the manner. Not gonna lie. Some people who have read it were deeply impacted.
Keepers doesn't have anything to do with anything we've talked about, but I think you may well like it, Gabby. Just don't read the comments before the story. You'll like it to some degree, I'm sure. Plus... oh my goth! The cover art has a anthro dragon furry on it!
2200326
The Hugh Jelly chapter of Odd Jobs 2 was the best I've read from Bronystories. Not gonna lie, I got off on it. But not because of the wild, bloody fetus scat fetishiness/everything that was going on in it. I got off on how stupid, hilarious and outright retarded the whole thing was and how comedically well put together it was. I got off on laughter... (?) Dunno. Might be an extension of my tickling fetish.
Still. Doesn't stop that one chapter from being stupid, pants-on-head retarded absurd bullshit comedic gold. It's so bad that it's too funny! Even Lyra was in agreement at the end, going into a stupefied temporary coma!
The best.
2200469
I think Benny's words more accurately convey what I was trying to say here in the first paragraph>>2200523
2200523
To start off, I'll leave the Kkat matter where it is. The animosity (on both sides) is cool now. Perviously, the descriptor "blood feud" would have been hyperbolic only in certain cases. Suffice to say, don't mention Fallout: Equestria to me or authors thereof... and then you did. But, you didn't know. Let me put it this way: There's a reason for the color schemes of Any Random's staff torturers in "Apple Shrugged" and a reason the big villain in the same story had plans to use a magical nuke on Canterlot.
With that out of the way...
I understand. I kind of want to be on the fence because limited, isolated cases of things can be appealing (though I usually feel disgusted with myself if they have the cliche, bog-standard BAD END; that's why stories like The Mane-iac's Triumph, Daring Done and Gilda- Griffin the Gut-Buster all have good ends and protagonists who don't break, as well as heel-face turns.) To take such isolated, personal things and extend them to a whole nation is just ridiculous. Not just because you steal the capacity for choice from a population that didn't even ask for such a thing, but because a nation contains more than the "preferred" type and there are lots of unfortunate implications of what happens to those who don't fit. I hear all the elderly were brutally murdered. And we know what those sick monsters do to foals. For a while I thought there was a genocide against non-ponies, because I never saw them, save for Diamond Dog male collaborators. And one image almost implied that Little Strongheart had been murdered.
I take this stance because I really feel it. I really donhave a powerful, internal anti-slavery drive. I have even been known, in my looser moments, to huff and harumph in the direction of non-chattel, non-wartime chosen sexual "lifestyle slavery" (largely for political reasons." I guess as I get older I also get more "Fight the fash!" Which is odd because wanting to scrap with the blackshirts is usually thought of as a young man's game. Maybe as I get more socialist I get more protective about the fabric of society.
The Hugh Jelly chapter I just skimmed. I got the idea and laughed at it. I didn't need to read it (the joys of OCD! Never knowing what written image will lock into an obsessive loop and need a good compulsive ritual to clear.) I actually likeD the Futashy chapter, because, and I've said this a lot, it was then and remains to now the best hyper sex/penetration scene I have seen. And I've done scenes with full-blown furry hyper fans.
2200523
So I read Keepers, and All the Pretty Pony Princesses.
Being one who is pro-choice, how positively did you think I'd take a propaganda piece? It was written... as though it had no point other than to say "Never abortion, all accidents works out perfectly and are awesome."
All the Pretty Pony Princesses make me think Bad Horse wants me dead. After reading the white text (hard to do on a phone since it requires copying and pasting) I felt like I wanted to stab myself mercilessly in the throat. It's depressing, and I have enough depression right now.
He clearly has talent... in the estimation of folks who like Cormac McCarthy, but I've never been convinced that psychological torture and stories with no actual point are literature so much as they are a way for the author to hurt their audience. But I may be wrong. He writes well, in a sense but he's a bit intense in his "I will tell you nothing and you will feel as though everything inside of you has been punched because this story will torture your mind forever. You are not allowed to understand, puny creature."
2200269
Fair enough, but it'd just be convenient to have a central hub for this kind of thing where people can congregate/ talk shit and circlejerk.
Why don't you go pitch the idea to obsolescence, no harm in asking and if not then you don't lose anything.
(Also you really shouldn't oppose someones fictional fetish for being immoral, can't stress that enough just let them fap man. I think this is a fun idea all the same though).
2201601
Does Obs have strong feelings in that direction? If so I certainly should.
Objections are based on the grounds upon which they are strongest. It's not always appropos but they rest where they can rest. Plus by noting the grounds it means others may be inclined to think in those terms too.
2202183
Fuck if I know, probably.
Also mind speaking a high school level dialect? I'm fairly sure opposition just adds fuel to the fire, so I'm naturally all for it.
2202561
I think there's room for all levels of discourse. After all, I did an epic poem based on a classic Romanesque epic.
2202183
Obs and Alex are both pretty viruently anti-Fall. You know Alex is solid, and I'll vouch for Obs in the same capacity.
2204388
So would they overlook a violation of site rules/allow some loophole abuse to get this thing started?
2205367
No, but I think they'd tacitly support you and others (like me) that think the way we do, that there deserves to be things that fight back against the darkness, if only by writing things that are against this vile concept.
2205863
Then I'll keep is like this. Unofficial and off the books as it were. But do please invite them to join this unofficial little union of opposition.
2206331
I'll give them a poke, see what they say.
2207344
Thank you dear.
2201454
Those are some of his least works, he has much better stuff.
2214322
Not if he writes like Cormac McCarthy. But what are his stories that are of any worth?
2214526
Well a lot of his stuff is a bit maudlin or bittersweet so I'm not sure it's your speed, but there are some comedy stories too.
Twilight Sparkle and the Quest for Anatomical Accuracy
The Magician and the Detective
Sisters
Mortality Report
Bad Horse's Bedtime Stories for Impressionable Young Colts and Fillies
Experience
Long Distance
2214873
Given my mood lately, maudlin is not in my wheelhouse.
2216629
If it's marked sad, avoid it. For comedy Sisters and BHBSfIYCaF are good.
2218889
I'll have to consider it.
2200469 2199031 2200184 2199194 2200523 2199748
You want to know why I want to fight Fall of Equestria? It's all commissioned. All of the official stuff is stemming from one person's vision because they have enough money to throw around. They haven't put any effort into it and it shows. They're the "ideas man" and not only are most of their ideas dumb or wasted potential, but you can't offer criticism even for the simple things, such as plot, because someone else is paying for it.
I just feel like all of the fans are undeserved, in a way.
Actually, if you wrote with the same concepts, but in a way that didn't paint the caribou as unbeatable and simply took out the worst of it, I think there would still be plenty of people reading it, if it were well-written or well-drawn. That's the bigger problem right there. Most of the quality isn't even that great. It's serviceable but it's not as if this stuff is stunning. People could do it better.
Maybe there are people who would miss the misogyny, if you took it out, but I wouldn't be surprised if many more didn't miss it. I think more people are jumping at it for other fetishes.
But ehh... I really should be asleep so I might not be making any sense at all right now.
2225729
Indeed, the fetishes and art aren't even good or extreme, pretty vanilla actually (I suppose it's the entire misogynistic concept/universe that rustles Mr.LaVedier).
The entire concept is shite as well (retarded really, as far as fanfics for the pastel horse show go), why not just have a bunch of stallions kidnap mares then imprison them in a sex dungeon for the purpose of testing anal circumference rolls. It could be a cult or organization of evil rich folk who get together on weekends do do horrible things to little
boysfillies intestines.Anything would be better than what they have currently.
Edit: Also I gotta ask, when will that group be going up?
2225729
Everything you say about the lack of quality inherent to the Fall of Equestria universe is probably true. I believe you. What I still don't understand is why people should actively combat something for being bad and popular at the same time. There are a lot of bad, popular things out there, and I don't understand what gets this one singled out.
2225729
Take out the misogyny and the mutilation (and the foal-fiddling) and the ridiculous Gary Stu idiocy and there are some elements there that would make for some interesting, if heavy-handed, clop; as well as a cracking good adventure/action/war series (as I did with Etiamsi Omnes.)
I also think you're right about the "money man aspect." I've seen a lot of positions pushed, which pushed along the discourse in a particular fandom or sub-fandom, all at the monomanical command of a single person with deep pockets (or an artist who has an agenda) and who wants their vision to be absolute. But at least, with how mercenary the artist is, anyone can pay them to draw counter-images. It's amusingly like an arms dealer, or Thenardier in Les Miserables. It doesn't matter which side they serve, they get cash on the barrel head, Jack, all the same.
2226066
The particular instances of badness are extremely antisocial and just mad. The type of things implied in the story are called "just dumb fantasy that is totally not real" but are actively ideated by some folk. Look at FSTDT and find quotes from John Wright, WF Price and The Spearhead to see MRAs that actively support that level of female degradation. So it's hard if not impossible to know who is in earnest and who just has weird fantasies (and how those fantasies work if they're not actual ideation.)
2225993
I would challenge the 'not extreme' assertion. Misogyny is itself a fetish. I know someone who made up a non-pony misogynistic world where women have nominal freedom until the ruling group decides to have them sent to a processing center where they are thrown, alive and usually pregnant, into a meat grinder. Then there's the mutilation fetishes (dehorning, wing cutting with attendant nail-filled wing sheaths, and the burning of Cutie Marks.) Not to mention the foal-fiddling.
You have a point regarding the scope. As it is a national thing it not only becomes more shockingly horrid, it becomes... dumber. Wars get fough over far more limited amounts of non-sexual slavery. The whole thing feels cripplingly dumb. With what you said there is far more sense. Smaller groups actually could slip through the cracks.
You have a creepy obsession with what other people write and draw. Get help.
2242051 Those who live in glass houses...