Season 4 Finale - Reactions · 8:36pm May 11th, 2014
I felt sort of obligated to write something about the finale, because I wrote something about the premiere. I forgot to take any notes when I first watched it, though, so these aren’t actual first reactions, more like after-the-fact reactions.
Anyway, this isn’t a review or analysis, just some things I wrote down as I rewatched the two episodes.
--“It doesn’t seem like my role as a Princess equates to all that much.”
--I like that they’re acknowledging this, but openly acknowledging your story’s problem in the text of your story doesn’t solve the problem, it only makes it more glaring. Twilight’s role as a princess should have started to matter 24 episodes ago.
--Acknowledging a problem in your story in the actual text would probably work if you were doing it for the sake of humor. But then you’d be stepping into metafiction territory, and metafiction can easily become frustrating for readers. It’s really best to just solve the problem, or at least try to minimize it as much as possible so the audience won’t notice.
--“Plus, it gives me an opportunity to see my favorite sister in law.”
--I’m still questioning why it was necessary to randomly introduce a third alicorn princess from out of the blue, and Cadance still has no discernable personality whatsoever, but this is really sweet. Just for this, I’m starting to like Cadance.
--Sing it, Twilight!
--I’m not really feeling this song.
--At least it’s not a terrible pop radio wannabe, though.
--And the production values are impressive. Celestia’s part is good, too.
--The main conflict here seems to be that Twilight doesn’t know what her role as a princess is supposed to be, but does she ever really learn that? What does Tyrek’s whole deal have to do with that, and how exactly does it help Twilight realize that she’s ‘Princess of Friendship’? And what does that even mean? Does Twilight or anyone else even know?
--“Very sorry, heh heh, you came out of nowhere!”
--favorite line
--so stilted
--Tyrek’s introduction works well. Does a good job establishing what his power is.
--‘Why do you think I’m here? You know as well as I that this was not a dream, but a vision.’
--So much awkward, stilted dialogue.
--Why did she come running in asking ‘Are you okay?’ if she already knew exactly what was happening and that Celestia wasn’t in any real danger?
--The Tyrek background scene is super duper expositiony. The story book art is a nice touch, and with only 44 minutes to work with, they can only spend so much time on setting things like this up, but they really couldn’t have chosen a more boring way to explain his backstory--by literally just straight up telling the audience his backstory.
--I’m confused by what Scorpan’s role is. It seemed clear here that they were setting up to bring him in at some point, but he never shows up. My best guess is that it’s related to the theme of betrayal that shows up at a couple other points in the episodes. Something about how to deal with betrayal in a friendship? You can either respond to it with anger or forgiveness? I’m not sure.
--So, Tartarus is still a real thing in Equestria, and now we’re banishing people there? I’m not sure how this fits the world of Equestria.
--For all of the ponies later ‘How could you betray us?!!’ talk, it’s clear from the beginning that Fluttershy is the only one who gives a rat’s ass about Discord. Not really sure they have any right to be surprised by it when it happens.
--Lots of repetition of previous events that I remember and don’t need repeated.. Necessary for a kids show, but still irritating.
--Discord is still fun.
--I also like that it’s made clear that he really doesn’t get what ‘being friends’ means. Though, the mane 6 aren’t really helping him any.
--“What if there really is something important in that chest?”
--Do you really think so, Fluttershy?
--Really, do you?
--Huh, do you really?
--Maybe something important in there?
--You really think there might be?
--Nah, probably not.
--Have they really never before tried looking through the library to find a book about the chest? Seems a little late in the game for that. Also seems like that would have been Twilight’s first move.
--Tyrek convincing Discord to betray the ponies works, and it makes perfect sense, but it happens incredibly easily. Can Discord, the ultimate. manipulator, really not tell that Tyrek is manipulating him? And it only takes a single one minute long conversation to convince him?
--More irritating repetition of things I already remember, this time even actually replaying the scenes they feel I need to be reminded of. I understand why it’s necessary, but it’s still irritating.
--Key transformation animation is pretty cool.
--Very good scenes establishing how malicious Tyrek/Discord are, still very expositiony, but they work.
--“I thought our friendship meant something to him!”
--No, Twilight, you’ve made it pretty clear that you didn’t. Like I said earlier, I’m not sure the ponies have any real right to be surprised. Fluttershy is the only one who should feel betrayed by Discord, because she’s the only one who expressed any care for him.
--I really like that the show is confirming that both the pegasus ponies and earth ponies have magic too, and that it directly affects their ability to fly, control the weather, and grow plants. It’s been assumed, but I don’t think it’s ever been clearly shown in canon before.
--And cutie marks, too.
--Everyone else has already pointed out the plot hole of the princesses’ plan being dependent on Tyrek not knowing that a fourth alicorn exists when he’s teamed up with Discord, who definitely knows that Twilight exists. I’m more confused why they don’t dump all of the alicorn magic into Celestia instead. With all four of the alicorn’s magic, Twilight is able to take Tyrek on in a head-to-head battle, and she is shown to be equal in power to him, and that’s only after he takes Discord’s magic, too. If Celestia, who could have controlled the magic from the beginning, had taken the alicorn magic, she easily could have defeated Tyrek on her own. But they never even consider doing so.
--All of the gags related to Twilight trying to control her new power are really fun. Might be the highlight of the entire two-parter. They’re definitely the most enjoyable bits.
--“I need you to stay here and encourage everypony to remain indoors.”
--And this is my biggest problem with this finale, this season, this entire show, really.
--Back in the season 1 finale, Best Night Ever, each of the mane 6 had a separate, individual motivation, something related to their established character. They each had a tangible role to play in the episode, and they each had a full little story arc. Ultimately, they all learned a lesson together, and developed as characters together. Twilight’s role in that episode was no larger or smaller than any of the other mane 6.
--Fast forward to the season 4 finale, and the mane 6’s only role in the episode is ‘Make sure everypony remains indoors while I go have this awesome fight with the villain.’ Like Crystal Empire, this is an episode only about Twilight. That’s a problem, because this is a show about six friends (or at least it should be), not a show about Twilight. Every character gets individual episodes to develop in, but it used to be that all of the characters got a place in the finales/premieres. Now only Twilight does.
--I’m not upset or frustrated by Twilight’s development, I’m just bored. I really can’t express how utterly I don’t care about Twilight’s ‘Wow, look how amazingly powerful and strong I am, and how I don’t have any flaws at all, and how I trample over every possible obstacle.’ I’m exaggerating, but not by much. That isn’t the character I fell in love with at the beginning of the show, and it wasn’t the right place to take her character. Discord gets more actual development than Twilight does in this episode, and I expect that’s because Twilight’s character doesn’t have any room left to develop in.
--I will remain tentatively hopeful that Twilight becoming a real princess will actually mean new, tangible conflicts for her character to face, and real growth for her character. But I’m also perfectly willing to accept that Twilight’s development as a character is complete, and that there are only five ponies worth watching anymore.
--The relationship between Tyrek and Discord works very well. It’s clear to anyone watching that Tyrek is using him, but Discord is so inexperienced with relationships that he never sees the betrayal coming, leading him to see what a real friend is in Twilight and Fluttershy.
--Poor Fluttershy.
--Discord even gives her a little hug and brings the cucumber sandwiches, but just to drop the on the ground in front of her. He’s acting almost uncharacteristically malicious.
--Again, the relationship between Discord and Tyrek, and how it leads to him understanding what a friend really is, works very well.
--This almost seems like more of a Discord episode than a Twilight episode.
--Aww, the library…
--This fight is very impressive, and I’m enjoying it, but I’m having a hard time shaking the feeling that it’s out of place here.
--I don’t watch this show for the fight scenes. I watch it for the characters, which are disappointingly absent from this. Compare this to the changelings, where the ponies’ roles in the fighting actually related to their character somehow. Like Pinkie using her party cannon to fight the changelings. Here, it’s a pretty standard ‘super epic fight!!!’
--Twilight deciding that her friends are more important than her magic is a nice touch, but it’s not any evidence of character growth. Twilight has known and shown for a long time now that friendship>>>everything else. I’d almost call this an example of beating a dead horse. But that would just be morbid.
--I do think her choosing to save Discord too is important, though, more for him than her.
--Why doesn’t Tyrek go ahead and kill off the mane 6 now? He doesn’t have any reason to keep them alive. In the very least, he could banish them all to Tartarus, or lock them up.
--Discord’s story arc here still works very well.
--“I think we have to do this together!”
--It’s a nice sentiment, but I’m not sure if it’s true. It was Twilight who the princesses trusted with their power (they even told her not to tell her friends), it was Twilight who battled Tyrek, it was Twilight who made the big, important decision to save her friends and not her magic, and it was Twilight who chose to forgive Discord. What have her friends done besides ‘make sure everypony stays indoors’ and sit helpless in a cage until Twilight came to rescue them?
--The show is telling me that friends>>>everything else, but it’s showing me that Twilight>>>everything else.
--Trix yogurt transformation go!
--They look delicious.
--Silly, Tyrek, trix are for ponies!
--Oh look, Twilight got an ugly princess castle to go with her ugly princess face.
--Good for her.
--What did this big battle have to do with her realizing that her role was spreading friendship? It doesn’t seem related.
--I’m guessing ‘Princess of Friendship’ is going to entail doing exactly what she’s already been doing the past four seasons. Helping her friends overcome problems together and resolve interpersonal conflicts. I expect the status quo will remain the same.
--I’m skipping this song.
Overall, I’d say this was a really solid finale. The first part was really heavy on the exposition, repetition, and set up, but the second part was a great payoff. Everything with Discord and the gags dealing with Twilight’s new power were easily the highlights. The fight was cool, if out of place. Tyrek was a genuinely formidable foe, if completely flat. I’m not particularly happy with where Twilight has gone as a character, and I’m not particularly hopeful about what being Princess of Friendship will mean for her character in the future. I’ll still be excited to see where the other five go from here, and I look forward to seeing more of them.
It also only jossed two of my in-progress fics, and only in very minor ways. That’s always nice. On that note, I’m now nearing 80k words of unposted pony fics. I should post those sometime.
If I’m being completely honest, I think most of my enjoyment from this show doesn’t actually come from the show itself anymore. It comes from reading stories about ponies having sex with each other after the credits have rolled.
To be fair, this was established all the way back in season 2, as that was why Cerberus running off was such a big deal.
The funny thing was he actually DID help them out for once... and they only came to appreciate it too late. Sadly that irony did not get rubbed in their faces.
I disagree. And frankly, I think it ties back into this:
So here's the thing I think, as I noted in Lion's blog:
This episode's big mistake was including the mane six other than Fluttershy and maybe Applejack at all.
Yes, I know Rainbow Power and the new treehouse were Hasbro mandates. I'm living in unrealistic town here for a bit.
They could have had this episode be about the contrast between Discord (who is the best character in the episode) and Twilight. Both of them are very powerful creatures; neither of them really feels like they have a place in the world. But The Power of Friendship (TM) is with Twilight Sparkle; she cares about and loves her friends and the princesses. Discord really doesn't understand these things, and is far more focused on himself and what he gets from people, though he is beginning to understand it isn't all about him. Indeed, the episode seemed to poke at this briefly before forgetting about it, which is really too bad, because Twilight's whole supposed charater arc in the episode made no real sense.
Could she have learned that you don't have a destiny, you just have to figure out what you're good at and do that? She is the Princess of Blowing Up Bad Guys, after all, and deciding to make people happy or teaching people magic or whatever the heck would have been fine too.
Could she have have figured out that you don't need to have a destiny, so long as you forge a good way through life and leave the world better than you found it?
Could she have delivered the lesson that even people you don't like will sometimes do nice things or try to change their ways, and you should accept that when it happens and not rub their past in it?
Or maybe she could have just delivered the message that just because you haven't found your way, doesn't mean that you should let other people tell you what to do to Discord.
I dunno, something something.
The rest of the mane six had no real role in the episode, other than Fluttershy being betrayed by Discord and Applejack stepping up to express distrust of Discord. Rarity, Pinkie Pie, and Rainbow Dash added exactly nothing to the episode; they were just warm bodies for the rainbow transformation.
And while yes, I do understand the necessity of Rainbow Power, and while it was definitely Twilight's key episode (and that part, at least, actually worked reasonably well - it was about teaching Discord the meaning of friendship, and the key that he gave her had real significance) I dunno if it actually had to be this episode, though making a finale involving Rainbow Power that didn't involve blowing up a bad guy would be harder...
Unless of course they nuked Power Ponies, and made this be the second to final two episodes, and then the finale be them opening the box, all gaining superpowers, and having fun with them until they realized it was kind of empty, and that the real thing to do was to help out other ponies with them, because while being awesome is fun, having interpersonal relationships makes things worthwhile. I dunno, something feel good. Pretty lies we tell to children.
Anyway. Yeah. I honestly wouldn't have minded if it was just a purely Twilight and Discord centric episode and her coming to appreciate her role and doing what she can, even if she doesn't know what her destiny is yet (or hasn't decided on it) doesn't mean she can't still do things or find important things to do.
Because let's face it - in reality, no one actually hands you your destiny. You have to choose it. And you can always change your mind.
Clearly this means I need to write porn.
I am afraid, you're missing the point here. You see, Celestia gave ALL of her magic to Twilight, as well as other princessessessess. It's like an equation a+b+c+d=SUPER_POWER, it actually didn't matter who has gotten all the alicorn magic, be it Luna, Cadense, or Celestia, they would have as much magic as Twilight did.
Also, I am pretty sure that Tia knew about this box and she just gave Twilight time to figure out how to open it, by 'dumping' all alicorn magic on her purple shoulders.
By the way, the whole town just lost its only one public library and nobody gives a crap about it.
2101616
I feel like you and HoofBiting are seeing the same thing and just suggesting two different solutions, either of which would work from a story perspective. But I think that from the perspective of the overall series, HoofBiting's has an edge on your idea.
Both of you see most of the mane six standing around with not much to do in this episode. I totally agree.
You think the solution is to remove the extra mane six. HoofBiting thinks the solution is to rewrite the episode so that the mane six aren't standing around with not much to do.
The mane six being useless isn't inherent to the episode. As HoofBiting points out, Best Night Ever used all of the mane six to illustrate the same point. The writers could have written an episode here that did the same thing, using the mane six as individuals to illustrate in some way why individual power wouldn't work in this situation, giving a hint in the story that it was going to be the power of friendship that won the day.
Or, as you point out, they could have just cut the useless ponies. Where I see a problem with that is that, while this makes for a better story with less rewriting, it makes a worse season finale for what is supposed to be an ensemble show.
I generally agree with what I've heard you say about the season, in terms of the ensemble being stuck in where it wasn't needed or used properly. But I also think that the premieres and finales are places where they usually should be writing an episode that is designed to use them all. If Season Five hadn't been picked up for whatever reason, a finale where most of the mane six weren't there or didn't do anything would be a sorry send off for the show. (Similarly, premieres should function as sort of a "welcome back" and give fans a chance to see all their favorites doing cool things.) If that hurts the story as it's being written, the writers should rethink the story and/or its place in the series.
Even Crystal Empire did a better job utilizing the remane 5 IMO, since even though they were essentially once again on "keep everypony indoors" duty, at least they each went about it in their own distinct ways.
Here, they weren't individuals at all. Grrr.
I also feel like while Weaponized Friendship is cute and whatnot, its use has been getting more irritating the more serious they want us to take it.
I mean, with Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis, they were both like "Pffft that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard," immediately before being blown to smithereens. In both cases that was funny, which helps, but also it just... I dunno, I didn't feel like the show was taking itself all that seriously.
Maybe this one is just in my head, but I feel like this episode took itself way too seriously. Probably because I felt like the stakes were so arbitrary, compared to past finales.
I dunno. I enjoy hearing your thoughts, anyway.
2101760
I have a few reasons for the suggestion.
The first is that Discord's character dynamic in the episode is a very good one, and we need Fluttershy for him to betray and Tirek to betray him (and to be the villain). The second is that the princesses dealing with Twilight is totally necessary.
But this means we're already at seven charaters - Tirek, Discord, Twilight, Celestia, Luna, Cadance, and Fluttershy. That is already a lot of characters.
The episode is only about 40-41 minutes long (as there is a minute of MLP theme and a minute of credits between them, and part 2 starts with a recap of part 1, which is probably necessary; I'm not exactly sure how long that recap is). The episode has to introduce and show off Tirek, and has to focus on Twilight and Discord (which is definitely a good thing). This means that the amount of time you have to give to other characters is quite small.
The fewer characters you have, the more each of them can shine when they are used. The rest of the mane six are a distraction that the story doesn't benefit from and which doesn't really work. They don't fit in to the story you're telling. And it is a story which should be told.
This means the correct choice is to not really use them - which in all fairness they did, but they ended up having to jam them in so they could use Rainbow Power in the end which felt a bit awkward (and which made the "this is a Hasbro mandate" all the more obvious). They really are extraneous, and really, there is no way to make them not extraneous - there isn't enough time for them to really matter.
And that's not a bad thing.
The third reason is that Twilight didn't have a focus episode all season, so having the finale center on her (as every single two parter has done) is entirely legitimate; I was glad it focused on her, because she needed focus. Indeed, this has happened with all of the two parters, really - Twilight is clearly the leader and protagonist, and gets focused on for a huge chunk of the episode. While the first two two-parters had them as a team, in both The Elements of Harmony and The Return of Harmony, Twilight (or Twilight and Spike) basically were standing alone for a good chunk of the episode and were the major impetus for what happened in them. Twilight has the most agency of any character in these two-parters, though the other characters do have some agency (particularly in the first one).
And in A Canterlot Wedding and The Crystal Empire, the episodes were very focused on her (and Shining Armor/Cadance in the first, and Spike in the second). The rest of the mane six contributed in The Crystal Empire, but they didn't even need to be there for A Canterlot Wedding - IIRC Fluttershy doesn't even have a line in the second half of the episode. Yeah, the changeling fight was interesting, but they could have had the episode focus around Shining Armor, Cadance, Chrysalis, Twilight, and perhaps Celestia and it probably would have helped because we had to care about Cadance and Shining Armor and they literally just popped into existence in part 1 of that episode. There were other things they could have done, there. And frankly their inclusion in ACW was probably part of why the episode ended up with big pacing problems, as they showed all of them doing stuff in part 1... but nothing the rest of them did ever really mattered.
Even something like PTS didn't really give Pinkie Pie any impact in the story; Pinkie Pie was pretty much just kind of there. She never mattered at all. That's okay, she needed to be there and it wasn't like she was a huge detriment or anything because she didn't eat up any time to speak of, but it is worth noting that even in that episode they didn't really focus on everyone.
So when we get here and we see another episode where the rest of the mane six don't need to be there... well, really, I have to ask why they're there. ACW was perhaps the worst in that regard, because they weren't even needed for the elements of harmony there; there was literally no plot reason for them to be present, because the only contribution they make is betraying Twilight... which could have been done by her brother and Princess Celestia (the Judas), and maybe even Luna if they wanted to go for full hypocrisy points.
And indeed, you cited The Best Night Ever... but it doesn't focus on the mane six. Twilight is just kind of there. She is disappointed that Celestia has no real time for her, and that's it. It isn't a story. It is just "I am disappointed." Pinkie Pie tries to partay and annoys everyone, Rarity finds out that Prince Blueblood is a lout, Fluttershy is angry because the garden creatures aren't interested in her, and Applejack shows up and no one is interested in her plain food (which costs money) when there is a complementary high-class buffet inside and she tries to attract attention, and Rainbow Dash gets blown off by the Wonderbolts and ends up trying to impress them with stunts in a desperate attempt to hang out with them.
I don't. A finale should be as good as possible, and preferably should have some meaning. Focusing on everyone prevents that, because to focus on everyone is to focus on no one. MMC was a great episode because it was about Twilight and used everyone else to support her story. The Best Night Ever was a fun episode which wrapped up the Grand Galloping Gala, even though it didn't focus on Twilight at all. ACW barely had the rest of the mane six in its second half, and they really were extraneous to the plot; if they had been excluded, would it have made it a bad episode? I don't think so. And indeed, the opportunity to better flesh out Shining Armor and Princess Cadance might have helped sell those two (very important) characters to the audience to start out with, as people STILL roll their eyes at their appearances (though this season actually was pretty good to Cadance).
This episode was certainly better than ACW. Was it better than The Best Night Ever? Honestly, I'd say it kind of was. Not that The Best Night Ever was bad by any means; it did what it needed to do. But I think the entertainment value of this episode was higher. The problem with this episode is more that it doesn't really feel like it fits as well; BNE felt very fitting as an end to the first season, and frankly I wouldn't mind a slice of life type finale again - BNE and MMC were both solid ways to end seasons. But I was certainly entertained by this finale.
MMC would have been an excellent series finale, and it worked well precisely because it focused on Twilight and the culmination of her story arc. It lent significance to her actions. And by focusing on just one character, and doing something meaningful, it felt meaningful.
The main meaning out of this episode is... Discord actually sort of understands friendship now, not as a chain or something that he gets something out of, but as something which is actually shared and has meaning. And Twilight has a castle (buy it now!) and is... less worried about being a princess? That part didn't get sold very well, unfortunately. And I think selling that better would have made the episode stronger. If we spent more time with Twilight's other friends (the princesses) dealing with Twilight's insecurities, instead of Twilight going away, then getting called back again, then leaving them again, it might have actually helped sell her supposed arc, instead of it just sort of arbitrarily being there at the end. Or potentially it could have had more interaction with Twilight and Discord, contrasting their views on friendship. I don't know, exactly.
But I do know that Discord was the strongest part of the episode, and that preserving his arc pretty much means you're going to shaft the rest of the mane six.
All that being said, I actually enjoyed the finale, contrary to my expectations going into it (and the fact that I've clearly spent far more time bitching about it than praising it); McCarthy finally did a properly paced two-parter, and that gives me a lot of hope for her episodes in the future. I just think it could have been even better than it was. Being entertaining and engaging means a lot, even if it isn't really all the way there.
Yay, sex.
No, wait.
1.-Princess of nothing Sparkle was there to help to get used to her Alicorness, I remember being pretty passed off after S3,but now I'm kinda more used to it after see how nothing really changed too much, actually S3 Twilight was worst Twilight.
2.-in my head canon each plot discrepancy is because of Trollestia, I see this whole story like something Queen Troll... I mean Princess Celestia and Discord planed all along.
3.-I was like foaming from my mouth during that fight, the fact that they put something dragonball-ish there for, let's say, older fans, is more incredible and/or exciting than the fight itself.
4...dunno,man.stuff.now back to my alternate ending story where Maud saves everypony Ala Goku, doing fusion with Trixie and Lighting Dust.
2102039
In general, I'd say we just have different goals for the series. That being said, you did misinterpret me:
I never said the episode should focus on everyone, I said it should use everyone.
The first episode, as well as Best Night Ever, Return of Harmony, The Crystal Empire, and Magical Mystery Cure are all episodes that use each character. In a lot of those cases the focus is on Twilight, but the rest of the core cast are given roles to play that make sense and serve to remind us why they're good characters, and why they will be/were in the season-- they have gags and they contribute to the rising tension in the plot in various ways as individuals. Especially in the cases that end in weaponized friendship, this makes it feel less tacked on because the other pieces of the friendship cannon were at least memorably there before it was time to macguffin the hell out of a villain.
Princess Twilight Sparkle isn't quite as good at this-- the characters still need to be there, but not much attention is paid to them. A few of them get a memorable line or two, but a few of them might as well have waited at home for Twilight to call them. A Canterlot Wedding is downright awful from this perspective, the only part where there's any individual fun from the core cast (other than Twilight) is the changeling fight (though I will admit that's a lot of fun.) That's one of the reasons it's my least favorite two part episode-- you are entirely correct in that there's no point in having this cast of funny, developed characters just sitting there.
This episode did even worse than ACW in that regard. Now, I agree, it was a good episode, and I did like the Discord arc. I just wish that it wasn't the season finale, or that the writers bothered to think of how to use the mane six, even if the focus was on Discord and Twilight.
2101634
The difference is that Celestia has far more experience than controlling alicorn magic than Twilight, and that she would gave faced Tirek sooner, before he absorbed the powers of Discord and the mane 6, meaning he would have been weaker.
2102039
The rest of the mane 6 in ACW were what made the episode fun to watch. Without them, Shining Armor and Cadance would have had to hold up the entire two-parter on their own, and that would have been a disaster of an episode. They may not have been absolutely necessary to the plot, but they did contribute to the plot, and they had a tangible role to play, just like they did in the pilot and in Return of Harmony. Even Magical Mystery Cure still used all of the Mane 6 in a meaningful way.
Then the story needs to be drastically reworked. The rest the mane 6 were dead weight in this episode, but it shouldn't have been that way. If a finale is meant to sum up a season, then it needs to include the mane 6. They all contributed to the season, and they all deserve resolution, too. A finale that pushes all but one of the central characters aside in an ensemble cast is an empty finale. The focus can be on Twilight (though I'm not sure what the point is when her character continues to stay in the same spot she's been in for the entirety of the past two seasons), but it's a disappointment if the rest of cast don't have any role to play, at least to support her.
I have to ask why the staff is writing finales and premieres that don't involve a significant chunk of the cast in any meaningful way. Maybe you and I are just watching the show for different reasons. I enjoyed these two episodes, but not nearly as much as I could have.
2102299
Well, I don't have a problem with them including the whole cast... but not every story includes the whole cast, and I think that's not a bad thing, and can apply to finales as well.
I mean, if you have a good idea for a finale with the whole cast, go for it... but if you don't, I'd rather they go with the strongest idea, rather than one which includes the whole cast merely because they have to.
Though really I don't think they need to conclude every season with a two-part adventure episode. I think having one big flashy adventure episode a season is enough, and I felt like BNE and MMC fit the show better than this finale did.
Would you be sad if a finale featured one of the CMC getting their cutie mark or Rainbow Dash finally making the Wonderbolts? Because those strike me as very "finaleish" things as well and I could see them not really featuring everyone (though they probably wouldn't be two-parters, though that depends on what kind of stories they were).
2102325
The finales and premieres are the only places where I hope that every character is featured, and am disappointed if they aren't. The finales and premieres are where the big changes to canon happen, where the biggest adventures take place, and since this is a show about a group of characters, not any single one of them, I want to see all of those characters take part in that change or that adventure.
A CMC getting her cute mark or Rainbow Dash becoming a Wonderbolt don't seem like good finale material to me because they would inevitably be very focused on a single character. I don't feel like the finale is the place to focus on a single character's development, it's the place to develop all of the characters, and the show itself, forward together.
If the rest of the characters could have a significant role to play in the story of Rainbow Dash finally becoming a Wonderbolt, I'd be all for it. But I have a hard time seeing how that would work in any way except similarly to what this finale, Princess Twilight Sparkle, and Crystal Empire all did, which is push all the other characters aside. A finale in which Rainbow Dash flies with the Wonderbolts while all of her friends never do anything but cheer from the sidelines would be disappointing to me, even if she gives a little speech at the end about how she never could have done it without them. I expect I would enjoy that more than this finale, though, because at least Rainbow Dash's character would be going somewhere new.
Is it so much to ask for that we have a two-parter in which all of the mane 6 work together to overcome an obstacle?
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Well, given that on the order of half of the two-parters have not involved all of the mane six working together to overcome an obstacle, and that not a single one of the finales has involved that (BNE was a bunch of individual stories where they all were on their own, ACW was Twilight/Cadance, MMC was Twilight, and this was Twilight), apparently the show's creators think so.
I'm not saying that it isn't nice to have Elements of Harmony/The Return of Harmony type episodes, I'm just saying that it is pretty apparent by this point that they don't think every two-parter or finale needs to be something like that. And I'd rather they not half-assedly stick in the rest of the cast in order to pretend like it is a group effort when they're only there in a cursory manner, given that that is the decision they have apparently made.
That's kind of the opposite of what I came away with there. Nothing Twilight did on her own worked.
And in the first episode, Twilight's uncomfortable being BEHIND her friends in acquiring her key. It's time for her to make her contribution.
And I liked how this episode/finale ended when it comes to the relative positions of the mane 6, as compared to the Season 3 finale. Last season ended with Twilight becoming a princess, but this season ended with a super-cool Circle of Thrones. I'm really hoping that that gets some good usage next season.
Though I do have one question about these events - has Celestia actually learned her lesson? At the end, Celestia said - doing her duties as the Princess of Friendship won't be something she'll be doing alone.
Is she FINALLY done with the "You need to do this alone, Twilight" stuff? I mean, that never works out. NEVER. It's just a bad idea in the first place. I wish she'd been called out on that a little more directly.
This is probably my biggest issue with the show (disregarding the fact that it's probably weird for me to have issues with a cartoon designed to sell toys to little girls). Turning Twilight into an alicorn princess irreversibly shunted her character down a very awkward path. I don't want to get all gloom-and-doom, but I can't shake the feeling that said path is wandering farther and farther away from what originally made the show so good.
Everything you said is surprisingly similar to my own thoughts. It's like you cut my head open and used my mind as an ink well.
Twilight already looked through books about that matter in "Castle Mane-ia"
why didn't he kill them? A. kid show.
B. he is not an abomination. he is a beign who acts as he needs to when he needs to and is not up to unecessary cruelty. he is amoral and dangerous, but he is not some reckless killer. as far as he was concerned, the mares were no threat and were not worth his time, and he had every reason to think so. sending the other three alicorns away was for some revenge and to remove the ponies from tryhing to rebel. even as powerful as he is he is not above harm after all.
and you are mostrously exaggerrating about tiwlight. considering she probably would never have gotten proper control of that extra power, and her attacks were her just releasing as much of that energy as she could mjuter to start as another flaw. she is sitll neurotic, even if she is better able of controlling herself. and she already wielded powerful magic, and powerful magic is not always helpful.
she is not capable of tackling any problem she can face. hell often times her help can have unwanted consequences or side effects. she still flawed, still awkward, and still tiwlight. that extra power just means she is able toface greater threats than before................
and also, so what with them taking a bit of a back seat, the other mane six? ultimately tiwlight is the primary protagonst. we started this entire adventure looking through her eyes, and often enough the rest of the mane six have the spotlight, especially for this season. if the openers and finale's are her episodes, all i can say is go for it so long as the rest begin to shine.
also they were diong all of that on purpose, if you did not notice. it also shows a bit more to what goes into an alicorn's development. she became an alicorn but did not know her purpose. to get technicaly cadance was in that boat herself longer than twilight was. twilight got her purpose, to ensure friendship and balance is kept. and it really does fit what give Harmony its power too.
put simply she learned that her purpose was not to be a ruler, not in a traditional sense. she is meant to inspire friendship and the harmony it can bring, with the help of her friends. and that was what the arc this season was about. not being true paragons of friendship and their virtues, but being able to overcome their weaknesses and more importantly inspire others to take up the virtues themselves.
while the designs for that stuff is questionable, the meaning bheind them is awesome. you do realize that they bsaically became avatars of the tree of harmony, right? how about the part about it turning out that the box was a Seed the entire time?
considering you finale statment was that insulting line, i am forced to think you are letting that hwole alicorn thing get i nthe way of your enjoyment. you question tiwlights characterization both when it is not changed and when it is changed....... contradiction means hypocrisy.
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I'm not sure about that. She seemed to be controlling it extremely well. Those didn't look like random bursts of power. Those were concentrated and directed blasts of energy.
Like when?
When did she show a flaw? When was she awkward?
That's a shame. For a long while, it seemed like a show about six different protagonists. I'm sorry for being disappointed that the other characters are being sidelined.
Yeah. I never said it wasn't.
What insulting line? I like stories about ponies having sex with each other. I don't mean that as an insult to anyone. It's just who I am.
A large number of things have gotten in the way of my enjoyment of the show. One of those things is Twilight's characterization, yes.
I question the purpose of making Twilight a princess when it still has yet to mean any new, meaningful conflicts for her character (outside of this season's premiere). Twilight hasn't faced a meaningful conflict in along time. That leads me to believe that her development is complete. She has nowhere to go from here, and she's had nowhere to go for some time now. A character without conflict isn't an interesting character to watch.
As before, I'm tentatively hopeful that her new 'Friendship Princess' deal will lead to new opportunities for her character. But I've been misled before.
2169826 so am to guess she learned how to eat from the highest of canterlot society. yeah wiping ketchup from your far with yet another burger is probably etiquette lesson number one.
there is also the time where she shows worlds if discomfort over being put into the spotlight. and with her pwoers not helping her, not even being a possibly immortal demigoddess can get you a cab in Manehatten.... no make you qualified in casting strange magic upon vampiric juice suckers. nro could it help the breezies get home and forced, if allowed them to become breezies themselves. also there is no magic in the world that could force rainbow dash to learn from the book, and her distinct love of studying showing her inner nerdiness. and i think it is pretty much shown a pony simply charging up theri horn and releasign a beam is one of the ismlistic forms of magic. hell that unicorn in the crowd managed to do that. not to mention she was focused on beating the holy fuck out of tirek at the time.