About that Molestia Blog · 2:48pm Jan 22nd, 2014
I'm pretty sure you've all heard this before, so I won't go on to repeat that. But I noticed a blog by InsertAuthorHere, and after reading his blog, and several of the replies, I felt I needed to speak up about it. I'd like to repost what I said here, then ask you all a question, if that's alright.
My post from the previous blog.
I guess I get to be the asshole here.
That's fine, I enjoy it most of the time. Seems like lately it's my job.
First, let me bring up something. There was, as far as we know, no C&D issued on APM. Numerous people have gotten in contact with the people who have worked on APM, and asked them about it. And so far, the replies have been that there was no C&D issued to them.
To answer why the tumblr blog was taken down, you need to keep one thing in mind. It's on Tumblr. And that site has had a bad history of blogs being taken down thanks to people exploiting their automated report system. Remember a while back when pony blogs were disappearing left and right, and not just the NSFW ones? It's still going on, only not as often as it was previously. APM had been hit before, and this time they simply didn't feel like fighting it, and decided it was a good time to move on. Hasbro was not involved in any of this. As IAH pointed out before, Hasbro is more worried about making money than protecting the 'innocence' of their characters.
Did PinkiePony and the whole DWM mob have anything to do with it? Possibly, but not likely. The whole DWM event from a while back was a pretty pathetic deal when everything was looked at. I'm not going to debate on feminists here, otherwise we'll be here all fricking day. Any credibility the DWM movement and PinkiePony herself had was lost when she started trying to sell t-shirts for it, turning the whole thing into little more than a scam to try and get money out of people. There are still likely some die-hard followers still out there (and I'm betting at least one will read, then whine about, this reply). It is possible one or more of them were the ones who executed the automated report exploit to get the blog taken down again, though unless someone steps forth and claims responsibility, there's no way to be sure.
So is this a good thing, or a bad thing? Well, it depends on who you ask, and where you stand on several topics. Personally, I believe that freedom of speech is paramount. If it wasn't, this site, and many more like it, would never have been allowed to survive. JJ was free to make whatever blog he wished, for whatever reason and purpose. This, of course, cuts both ways. PinkiePony and her friends were allowed to complain about it as much as they wish. Even if they are both at odds, they both are allowed their freedoms, up to the point where they try to infringe upon the other's freedoms. That's the line the whole DWM group ended up crossing. Their defense that the blog was 'offensive' is little more than a grade schooler crying that a bully called them a bad name. Everything, to someone, on some level, can be considered offensive. Don't believe me? Let me illustrate for you.
Bulk Biceps.
He's actually gotten a bit of appreciation from fans lately, and has been showing up a bit more often in the show since his first appearance in Hurricane Fluttershy. Seems as if most people like the character for one reason or another. But unfortunately, he's also offensive. How you may ask? Just look at him, and how he's portrayed as a character. He's muscle-bound, thick-headed, slow-witted, and portrayed as a simpleton. The argument can be made that he's offensive to anyone who partakes in body-building, or just anyone who could be considered a 'jock'. The character of Bulk Biceps portrays strong, muscular individuals as idiots with slow minds. Back in the 80's, no one really cared about that. Just look at the 'Revenge of the Nerds' movies. But these days, everyone seems to be out to find something offensive to complain about.
To insist that 'rape jokes' are an exception, and should be exempt from freedom of speech is nothing but people asking for special treatment. It's fine to offend others, but not people who freak out at the mention of 'rape'.
And to go even further, there's hardly any mention of 'rape' in the blog to begin with. Lewd behavior, sexual harassment, groping, sure. But I haven't found any clear instances where the main character actually rapes anyone. Even if an instance could be pointed out as being 'questionable' as to if it's rape or not, one has to consider what is being implied. Believe it or not, the saying 'you can't rape the willing' is actually true. There are countless people these days who are prime examples of that, and most of them are in happy relationships because of it. If you're willing to look a bit more closely at the dirty side of the world, you'll find that BDSM, pet-play, dominant/submissive, and a host of other fetishes all operate around this concept. An individual can act unwilling, because that's the role they wish to play, but it's understood by both parties that this is what they want to happen, and so it's permitted to happen. Now, before someone tries to twist what I've just said, let me make it clear that yes, there is still actual rape in the world. I am NOT trying to make an excuse for actual rape. Real rape is a violation, a wholly unwanted assault of a sexual nature, performed on an unwilling individual. No consent is given or implied, and there is no excuse for it. But claiming that real rape, and roleplayed rape, are one in the same shows a pure ignorance on behalf of the one making such a claim.
But the topic at hand is the ending of the Ask Princess Molestia blog. Like it or not, it has been a part of this fandom for a long time, and if anything shows that at least a good portion of the fandom is willing to step back and laugh at itself, and it's absurdity. Those that hate it because their skin isn't thick enough to hold up to off-color humor may wish it was gone without trace, but it has left an indelible mark upon the fandom, showing that at least some can find the humor in all things. I for one will miss the blog, for it's audacity and it's ability to take such an absurd concept and turn it into something enjoyable.
Or, you know, maybe I'm the only one that managed to actually get the joke about it all. That's possible too.
Now, having said that, I'd like to ask you all something. As you've probably noticed from reading my fics, rape is something that I'm, not exactly comfortable with, but feel as a literary tool it has it's place. We're talking about something fictional here, with no real victims or pain inflicted on another living being. Even then, I understand that not everyone will be comfortable with the topic, and that's fine.
What I want to ask is, since I know several of you who have read TMV have mentioned that don't really like rape in stories, what is your stance on it? Are you offended by it, or do you look past it knowing it's just a story?
Being somewhat older than 6, I can actually understand the difference between fiction and reality. Another benefit of having a double-digit mental age is that I can separate thoughts and fantasies from action.
First off:
That is incredibly wise.
Now then, I recently got into a bit of a flame war over in the comments of another story, A Fall of Equestria story. If you don't know, it's an AU where ponies have been conquered, and all females are regularly raped, horns and wings cut off, males are brainwashed rapists, and it's basically misogynistic and plain uncomfortable to look at. As I was arguing—NOT for it to be taken down, but merely that I think that if you are actually aroused by the rape of an unwilling person, you should find someone to talk to, because that shit ain't healthy—I was reminded about TMV, and it made me think: what is the difference?
It all comes down to tone and morals, really. Yes, in TMV, there is a lot of rape, and brainwashing, if I've been reading it right. As in, once you're raped, you're brainwashed into loving the rapist. As much as I'd love it to just be buried feelings brought to light, it doesn't feel that way. But the key here is that the point of the story is them trying to stop the rapist, or the spirit of such. We follow the investigation into this, entire chapters are mainly them trying to stop this. In Fall of Equestria, it revels in the horror. Yeah, it's obviously bad, but the entire story is meant to glorify, or at the very least, titillate. Having one or two characters sit back and muse over how bad something is isn't enough when 90% of the story is raperaperape.
TMV, for as brutal as it can be—Poor Sweetie Belle—has a heart. There is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, at least the possibility of a happy ending. And it's about the characters. Seeing them react in horror at what they've done, seeing that shift in mindset, watching them cry in remorse. Yes, we fapfapfapfapfap to the squishy bits, but afterwards, we come down from our high and watch the characters work it out.
As for the overall thing, look, it's just writing. Rape is NOT a laughing matter, but it is a valid literary situation to use, and I really think you've handled it well... well, better than most.
To me, it depends heavily on the situation. I'm not a fan of tragic stories in general (and I mean true tragedies, not sad stories that get mislabeled), so in that sense rape can be a part of something that I dislike in the stories I read.
But in and of itself I'm generally ok with it appearing as long as it's a meaningful part of the narrative and not just a pointless addon thrown in for the sake of a cheap emotional hook. In the case of TMV, it's there for a reason and is a core component of the story as a whole, so I'm totally ok with it appearing there.
Regardless of how it's used as a literary device though, a fictional story that contains rape isn't inherently offensive to me in any way. Fiction isn't real, that's the whole point. The opinions and actions of a character have no bearing on real life.
I shall continue to have the opinion of meh over the entire thing. Didn't really like APM anyway, and I certainly wouldn't fight over free speech for it to stay up. If people are going to continue to fight over this, then that's their dealio. Good job on the blog post though.
I think that no theme is too sensitive to talk about. There should be no taboo on discussions and expressions of opinions.
I am really ok with any theme and any opinion, as long as it is portrayed as such. Don't present lie, misinformation or opinions as facts and you are ok in my books. You want to show Hitler as a positive character? Go ahead. Want to display scenes of rape and not condemn the aggressor on spot? Even better. The thing is — without a conflict in opinions it's easy to stop thinking and accept that opinion as fact. Not only we must be always open to opposing views, we must encourage their expression. As long as you are right, you don't have to fear opposing views.
You can always take Lolita as an example. It's quite disturbing that that book was hard to publish.
1746495
Jake, I liked you for your humor and intelligence. Now I like you for your insight as well.
Pretty much everything Jake said. Actual rape is one of the few things that make me feel the urge to hurt someone. Obviously this means I don't like it. And yet, I'm sure I left a comment or two 'unf'ing at TMV. I don't think I could add anything to what Jake said, so I'll just echo him.
Obviously these people haven't looked at Japanese comics/cartoons. I am decided meh. If you can't tell the difference between fictions and real life then you have a problem.
Nah, tis just a story.
1746718
I love this. I love it when authors make them, as you said, ponies with human-like intelligence. I dislike that the show has anthropomorphized them to a large degree. When stories deal with more bestial issues—stronger emphasis placed on scents, equine-like behaviors, the concept of estrus(though I have yet to see it not used in comedic or pornographic terms—it just makes the stories more fun.
1746773
You might like Forgiveness Pending's take on estrus, scents, etc. The short version is, when the heat rolls around, Ponyville essentially shuts down. Any males who don't want to be a father this year head out to camps in the woods, and take the town's foals with them. Couples who want to spend the heat together grab a secluded cabin. The rest of the mares stay in town and try not to go completely crazy. Having stallions around a mare who smells like she's in heat causes the obvious involuntary behavioral problems, so the mares are flat-out banned from the general camp unless they're on heat-suppressing drugs.
I believe in complete and utter freedom of speech and expression. Anyone should be allowed to say/draw/express anything in a FICTIONAL way, cause if you don't like it, you can simply avoid it. I really like the trigger warnings becoming popular, because hey, I understand if someone who wants to avoid something that makes them uncomfortable or worse, and people should know about what they are getting into so they can correctly opt in/out of their preferred media.
About rape in particular, I really like reading about it in stories/porn and yet I am against it morally. I too am able to differentiate between reality and fiction.
Personally I'm torn. Not on the issue of Molestia so much - there's plenty of fiction you'll find distasteful around, so asking for one instance in particular to be removed isn't the answer - but rather on the whole jokes about rape thing. Since I'm male, I have much less reason to worry about it, so it'd be hard to claim I was unbiased... and that's before the years of my youth spent on 4chan.
As for freedom of speech, it's already limited in various ways - hate speech will get you in prison - so asking for one more thing to be exempt from it isn't as strange as you make it sound.
It'd have to be something meant to actually protect victims though... a law against "trauma reaction incitement," I guess?
Which would still take more than a joke. I mean, a joke about 'them blacks' might be rather off-key, but it's more likely to result in "dude, no." than threats of legal action.
I believe we should stay in our own little areas and stop poking each other.
Eh. Everything is something to laugh at, to me. If I didn't laugh at everything, I'd probably be in a mental institution right now.
Just saying.
1747522
Don't EVER believe the feminist propaganda that "males can't be raped". It happens quite often, and given percentages place unreported rape of males at a higher overall total than unreported rape of females. I can tell you from experience that it can surely happen to you.
Ever hear of the WBC? They line up and protest gays, say that our soldiers deserve to die, and bring their impressionable children with them to sing songs about how "God Hates Faggots". The police PROTECT them. But when people protest unfair treatment by the government or the actions and policies supported by the Tea Party, they get maced, beaten, arrested, and in some cases we've not heard back from them. So apparently hate speech is fine. /bitter
We do not need something like this. I have been a victim twice in my life, and I will tell you right now that this is a horrible idea. For one, along the same vein as you're shooting for - it singles out victims. We don't need pampering or attention drawn to us. We just need the ability to take the time to try and ease the edge off the pain and negative after-effects. For some that's a short time, for others that might be the rest of their life. But dumping restrictions like that onto people because of what happened to us is utter foolishness. It's as bad as saying adult websites can't exist because children might ignore the "adult content" warning and go see what's inside. It is OUR problem to deal with, lawmakers and white-knights only cause more issues when added to it. The most we can ask for is to be surrounded by trustworthy people and supportive friends who won't treat you differently - anything more is perpetuating self-weakness and milking your own violation.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak from my experience with years of assisting other victims in local trauma groups.
Depends where you are. As a black man myself, I can say I love the racist-themed jokes. I'll spit them out in any group of friends, laughs all around. I also live in an area where if you say it to the wrong person you're likely to wind up in the hospital or a ditch than come to any form of legal action over it.
_____
In the end I say freedom of speech, and indeed any and all human rights, belong only to those who are reasonable and tolerant. The hategroups, the people who refuse to at least be civil when the situation most calls for it, the greedy, the (non-fictional) violators, the unjustified murderers, the political cut-throats, the sexist extremists (male and female; we need human equality, not divided camps) - and generally anyone who incites divisiveness and perpetuates hatred amongst people who should at least be able to work and live together even if they don't agree? We don't need them. People take that stick too far sometimes, start preaching about how we need to protect the villains.
No. No we do not. If you protect those who wish to do you harm, you then are the one at fault for the knife that somehow winds up in your back. You can't blame others at that point, because you had the chance to prevent it by not being a smarmy idealist, and actually pushing out the people who seek to destroy and control everything around you to fit their bigotry.
But the villains aren't just those in the eyes of the law, understanding that the law is severely flawed and highly influenced by people who want to increase their capital. The villains are those who stand in the way of a harmonious and united human race.
Which does include PP and her DWM cronies.
Even if you people didn't like Molly, the fact remains the blog did not hurt anyone. I actually enjoyed it, despite my past, and had many laughs over the content. But to rage against someone who has done nothing wrong either overtly or behind the proverbial curtains, to abuse sensibilities and exploit the trauma of victims to accomplish her own selfish goals? PP and that lot were definitely villainous, even if they didn't contribute to the blog's removal.
My problem is with all the people who are saying "I didn't like it so I don't care." Alright then. So if you folks can say that, what will you say when it is something you care about? The more we let these things happen: unfair censorship, passively ceding our rights and freedoms in the name of LAZINESS, not caring about things we might have had a voice against, the hate and intolerance - the more they will continue to happen, because the perpetrators will continue to get away with it.
In the words of Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
When it comes to fiction, I'm of the opinion that NOTHING is taboo. Nor do I believe that one's morality can be compromised or judged based on the fictionalized fantasies they enjoy. Watching slasher films or playing violent FPS games doesn't mean I in any way endorse actual murder (quite the opposite actually), and so likewise following blogs like APM or reading you own TMV doesn't mean I endorse actual sexual assault. To ignore these risqué subjects is to cut ourselves off form real, if unpleasant, facets of the human experience. Besides, it's all just fantasy escapism, a way to briefly pretend we live in a world other than our own, including the ability to indulge in horrific atrocities in a manner where no one actually gets hurt.
Now there are things that I do find personally offensive, or more so things that I just find unpleasant and prefer not to expose myself to. That's the thing though, when I decide I don't like a work of fiction I move on and go someplace else. I do not as a rule try to prevent others from enjoying it by tearing down that work of fiction. I might not understand how anyone could like such things, but I support their right to like it.
The only time I might get truly offended to the point where I think something needs to be done is when someone doesn't get the "joke" and starts taking a work seriously, but that cuts both ways. The so-called moral guardians are wrong for trying to censor free speech, but the people who misguidedly try to project something like APM onto the actual show (or worst still as a justification to act that way in real life) are just as wrong. Actually that latter group is probably far worse. At least the would-be moral guardians are well intentioned in there extremist approach. Their opposite number however are the true dregs of society, just jerks looking for an excuse to act like jerks, and they make all of us look bad while doing so.
TMV fetishizes actual, disturbing, violent rape. I'm not sure whether that's more or less offensive than stories that handwave away how heinous and it disturbing should be. Leaning towards less, because at least you're being at least somewhat self-aware about it, rather than being blithely offensive and clueless.
1748571
Not what I meant. Men certainly can and do get raped, but you usually don't have anything to fear when simply being in the same room as some weird-looking girl, since you're most likely able to just hold her down if she tries anything.
Seen it mentioned that what men fear from women is humiliation, while vice versa would be rape, or death. It's not that black and white in practice, but it is a very different perspective. Hence my uncertainty.
Well, I can't say why it is like that, but don't you think the law itself is right (though it isn't practised properly)?
I was thinking about trauma in general, so it shouldn't single anyone out... war veterans and such.
Yeah, exactly. It's more of a social contract at that point - "don't say stupid shit in the wrong context" - which is already how it works for rape jokes and etc. So DWM was misguided at best, and got downright villainous when PP started selling t-shirts...
But if you're repeatedly the butt of racist jokes you can do something about it, whereas someone saying you deserved to be raped or suchlike is not cause for legal action.
That's where it gets weird for me.
1748639
Yes. This. Exactly all of this. Thank you for being a reasonable and likely tolerant individual. You would survive any theoretical purge I may or may not be wishing for not-so-secretly.
1749691
Your first counterpoint is quite false. I don't know where you live, but I've been many places in my life and in each place you'd be hard-pressed to find some girl who couldn't kill another human being with nearly equal the efficiently as a guy or more, depending. That's part of why I don't like feminists beyond the absolute hypocrisy of the movement and most of the members you see being insane. There's always that "women aren't as physically capable of men" idea they perpetuate and demand special consideration and treatment for, and still gets circulated here and there through parenting and the like. It's very not true. While it IS true that we are genetically pre-dispositioned to gain and hold more muscle mass, and our reactions are more bent towards being useful in combat - but the moment you think "I'm safe because I can probably take her if it comes down to a fight" is when you set yourself up for surprise, amigo.
I'm not grouching at you or anything at this point. I just want to make sure you don't keep thinking that way and the day comes that you could have prevented getting mugged or beaten down because you weren't appropriately observant. Always be careful!
1749768
I'm a skinny nerd, so I'm definitely careful, but... well, maybe it's more a cultural thing, having fear of rape instilled in you by cautionary tales and media. The thought just doesn't come to mind for me unless it's brought up, which definitely seems to be different from how women experience it.
1749357
Is there a fetish appeal to TMV? Well, yes, and it boldly advertises itself as being little more than such. Yet at the same time there's also something more to it that elevates it above the common rape-centric clop-fic, if still leaving it no less disturbing. There is also chilling sense of tragic horror as we see Twilight go from an unwilling passenger in her own body as it carries out unspeakable acts, but with each such act she becomes increasingly "addicted" to the sheer visceral thrill of those acts to the point where the line between herself and the "curse" becomes so blurred that it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends, and as a result even when she is later "cured" she continues to doubt her own ability to control herself moving forward.
It might be entirely unrealistic, but Twilight is very much just as much a victim as any of the ponies she assaults, and in a way that's what makes this fic work. It's not trying to use rape to provide any particularly meaningful social commentary, but it's more than just a generic power fantasy as well because no matter how much Twilight might seemingly be reviling in the thrill of dominating another, she herself is actually just as powerless to stop what's happening. Personally I find this fic to be perhaps most comparable to a classic werewolf movie, Twilight just becomes a very different kind of "predator" in the night.
Some might say that's little more than a shallow excuse to whitewash what in reality is one of the worst crimes a person can commit, and maybe it is, but not really any more so than any other narrative fiction where the "protagonist" regularly struggles with some kind of Superpowered Evil Side. As callous as it might sound, this can be a useful narrative tool, because deep down we all have dark impulses, not necessarily anything as reprehensible as murder or rape, but things we still know we can never act upon in real life. Through the medium of fiction though, we can explore these dark impulses in a safe and harmless environment.
I don't really care about rape in fictional stories. I actually kind of enjoy it, if it is female x female/futa.
Heck, I don't even care about foalcon. I'm currently writing my own story, inspired by yours, that has both rape (duh) and foalcon.
So, no, I have no problem with your story. If I had a problem I wouldn't read it in the first place and just move on.
1749876
That's actually a pretty awesome comparison. It's a slasher movie with rape instead of jump scares. Sort of. You know what I mean.
Anyway, yes, your argument makes total sense, and I understand the appeal beyond just the fetish appeal plus of course I never said I didn't understand the fetish appeal.
But damn if it doesn't make me feel guilty for how cloppable it is.First of all, I applaud you for your views on it. Too many times we're getting one sided people, that result in one big flamewar.
As for your question, it honestly depends. I admit that I have read rape fics, and maybe even liked it (mare to mare, or mare to a unwilling stallion), but that's because well ...having a girl wanting you to the point that she goes insane is ma fetish
But then there are fics where you just go "what the hell is wrong with the person that wrote this". Especially true if you got one of those sick gore fics where wings are being broken, and horns cut off 
Morally though, I'm against rape, and it's a damn shame that it still happens in this day and age.
In the end though, I feel this entire war that's currently going on is so pointless. Whenever you liked molly or not, in the end, people got different believes and views, and you won't force your opinion onto them, if you stand by their own. And let's be honest here, the DWM movement has people in it that hate bronies and ponies to begin with, and are just pretending to be fans against sex/rape culture
Molestia hadn't raped or sexually assaulted anyone (theoretically one stallion, but that's debateable) since she firmly became Molly (Molly being John Joseco's version of Molestia). Once the character and blog started taking a more "general humor" role and Molestia started acting more like a hedonistic Trollestia, a "soft" retcon began of the earlier parts of the blog.
For example, in one of the earlier posts, Luna is seen performing, well... certain acts on her sister. In one of the latter posts, Luna admits that she's never kissed anypony before. Given that these two things seem a little contradictory (though not necessarily completely out of the question), it's not hard to come to the conclusion that the latter updates were not the same character, and the latter updates did not contain rape, so relating this argument to this blog doesn't really make much sense.
As far as stories with rape? I'm writing a couple. Admittedly, in one of them, I imagine that there will be some debate as to whether or not it's rape (I consider it to be as such, but others can and probably will disagree), and the other one is non-pony related and the rapist is actually just... a complete monster.
But here's the thing: The main argument I've seen in favor of the DWM movement is that Molly was a "joking, loveable character that also engaged in rape." Now, setting aside the "making rape jokes" argument (already pointed out that that wasn't actually an issue) and the fact that that's not actually valid when applied to APM, are we supposed to represent rapists as being complete monsters all the time? Given that rapists tend to actually be either charming or, at the very least, friendly (in fact, this counts for most everyone that acts criminally against others, from the range of con men to serial killers), I would think that it would be a good thing.
Is it blaming the victim? Well, I lock my door at night. When travelling with valuables, I don't leave them unattended, and even though my sister knows that she's a good driver, she refuses to even pull out of a parking space unless everyone is buckled in. What I'm saying is this: Discouraging people from giving advice to help someone avoid harm, no matter what form of harm that is, or else discouraging people from presenting an accurate view of the people that could harm them is just helping those that are doing harm. I'd much rather help the people I love avoid harm than increase their risk of coming to harm by telling them to do whatever they want, no matter the risks of others inflicting harm upon them. And, if they do come to harm, whatever that harm may be, comfort and help them and the others that love them through it.
And when I say harm, I mean anything from pickpocketing to death (of course, if it comes to that, I obviously won't be comforting or helping that person through it, just those that love them). That includes rape.
Edit: Oh, and as it turns out, APM was ending anyway. But that's not a good enough explanation for people that want to pat themselves on the back for accomplishing, well... the illusion that there's anything for which to pat themselves on the pack.